Schools giving out the "pill"?

[wez]

 

It is not the schools job to educate about sex. It is the parents.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about birth control. It is the parents.

 

It is most certainly not the job of the schools to give out birth control pills or condoms- that is the parents.

 

 

You are condemning the school for providing contraception, and as a youth group leader at a church, you are pushing your views of complete abstainence as the only "choice".

 

I guess I wasn't aware you had kids.. How old are "he/she/they"?

 

Obviously eddo, plenty of kids for one reason or another have parents, however pathetic, that teach them that it's ok to have sex at a young age. Maybe they merely gander around at the messages society gives them and it's not always the parents fault that their kids have sex.. So, you suggest withholding protection and information from them to punish them?? Real f in' smart...

 

By the way, sex and marriage are not chained together. A committment is between 2 people. Not 2 people and a priest or judge. Besides, anyone who would willingly add another umbrella of laws over their head is nuts, IMO.

 

Also, marriage is a man made concept.. not divine. I fail to see the need to ask a judge or priest if I can be with another person, and then ask permission to not be with them if we so choose. I have a brain. Not to mention the financial raping by the system in both cases.. Hahahahaha

[eddo]

You are condemning the school for providing contraception, and as a youth group leader at a church, you are pushing your views of complete abstainence as the only "choice".

 

Interesting, but wrong. I do, however, see your point.

 

When I have talked to the group about sex in the past, I have made sure that every parent knew when it was happening and what I would be saying. It is then up to them (the parents) to make the choice to have their child in attendance or not (which in itself flaws your theory- attendance to church isn't mandatory by the state whereas attendance to school is.)

 

 

 

Obviously eddo, plenty of kids for one reason or another have parents, however pathetic, that teach them that it's ok to have sex at a young age. Maybe they merely gander around at the messages society gives them and it's not always the parents fault that their kids have sex.. So, you suggest withholding protection and information from them to punish them?? Real f in' smart...

 

I agree that media and society plays a part in all this, but the parents have got to step up and start being held accountable for the crappy job they are doing (and that goes for more than just 11 & 12 year olds having sex.) I don't know the answer, but am open to suggestions.

 

By the way, sex and marriage are not chained together..

Obviously, I disagree.

 

A committment is between 2 people. Not 2 people and a priest or judge. Besides, anyone who would willingly add another umbrella of laws over their head is nuts, IMO.

Also, marriage is a man made concept.. not divine. I fail to see the need to ask a judge or priest if I can be with another person, and then ask permission to not be with them if we so choose.

 

The marriage commitment, as I view it, is between man, wife, and God. I don't necessarily think the government has a place within my marriage either. It's funny that you think you know how I feel on these issues wez. Have you figured out yet that I don't fit very well into the stereotypes you compare me to?

[wez]

Interesting, but wrong. I do, however, see your point.

 

When I have talked to the group about sex in the past, I have made sure that every parent knew when it was happening and what I would be saying. It is then up to them (the parents) to make the choice to have their child in attendance or not (which in itself flaws your theory- attendance to church isn't mandatory by the state whereas attendance to school is.)

 

According to you, you should have told them, "that's your job" and went on a rant about poor parenting..

 

I pity the parents who are having you teach their kids about sex..

 

The marriage commitment, as I view it, is between man, wife, and God. I don't necessarily think the government has a place within my marriage either. It's funny that you think you know how I feel on these issues wez. Have you figured out yet that I don't fit very well into the stereotypes you compare me to?

 

So, you're saying you would have a non - legal, non - government sanctioned marriage with a personal commitment to each other, and God? If so, "we" ain't so different, you and I.

 

But I don't believe that's the case.. the people in your church would not understand, and you'd buckle.. close?

[eddo]

According to you, you should have told them, "that's your job" and went on a rant about poor parenting..

 

That isn't what I said at all wez. In my case, it was the parents call, which is exactly what I said was best. These parents were allowed to make an informed decision about the sex ed their child would get (and yes, I do believe and teach that abstinence til marriage is best) - because they knew what I would tell them and they had the option to opt out. They don't get that in public school.

And the way this school in Maine is, if you sign a release form saying the school nurse can treat your child for minor things, all of the sudden they are allowed to put your 11 year old daughter on the birth control pill without telling you.

 

That is wrong.

[wez]

That isn't what I said at all wez. In my case, it was the parents call, which is exactly what I said was best. These parents were allowed to make an informed decision about the sex ed their child would get (and yes, I do believe and teach that abstinence til marriage is best) - because they knew what I would tell them and they had the option to opt out. They don't get that in public school.

And the way this school in Maine is, if you sign a release form saying the school nurse can treat your child for minor things, all of the sudden they are allowed to put your 11 year old daughter on the birth control pill without telling you.

 

That is wrong.

 

 

So, why were you offering sex education classes to begin with? I thought you believed that was a parents job?

[eddo]

So, why were you offering sex education classes to begin with? I thought you believed that was a parents job?

 

I teach on a multitude of life topics. Sex is one of them.

[wez]

I teach on a multitude of life topics. Sex is one of them.

 

But you're not a parent... and that's got no place in a school, that is the parents job.

 

BTW.. do you use a banana or a cucumber to show them how a condom works? Hahahahahahaha

[eddo]

But you're not a parent... and that's got no place in a school, that is the parents job.

 

I've already answered that here. I'm not going to start going in circles with you.

[wez]

I've already answered that. I'm not going to start going in circles with you.

 

 

You contradict yourself... then avoid it, therein lie the circles you see.

[eddo]

You contradict yourself... then avoid it, therein lie the circles you see.

 

I didn't contradict myself at all. But nice try. Sad to see you still can't have a decent discussion with someone without trying to get all high and mighty on them...

[wez]

I teach on a multitude of life topics. Sex is one of them.

That is the issue here. Not that kids are having sex, not the sex ed- but the fact that parents are more and more turning over the responsibilities of being a parent over to other people to do for them. And the schools and the Gov't just soak it up.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about sex. It is the parents.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about birth control. It is the parents.

 

It is most certainly not the job of the schools to give out birth control pills or condoms- that is the parents.

 

Why people have kids and then expect others to raise them is beyond me. You all go ahead and elect Hillary and she'll take care of your kids for you. You won't have to do anything, won't have to worry about anything, and they will grow into adults completely dependent on the Gov't to do everything for them. Cool...

Of course' date=' if Parents would stop using schools as babysitters and actually begin to parent their children again, it wouldn"']

When I have talked to the group about sex in the past, I have made sure that every parent knew when it was happening and what I would be saying. It is then up to them (the parents) to make the choice to have their child in attendance or not

 

You are a glutton...

 

Perhaps "we" should elect you president and teach all "our" kids.. cool

 

There, I cut, and layed out the circle for you... better now?

 

Getting better at quoting = Sheik is the worst quote function user on the www.

[eddo]

as I said, I already addressed that (I put some points in bold so you wouldn't miss them):

 

That isn't what I said at all wez. In my case, it was the parents call, which is exactly what I said was best. These parents were allowed to make an informed decision about the sex ed their child would get (and yes, I do believe and teach that abstinence til marriage is best) - because they knew what I would tell them and they had the option to opt out. They don't get that in public school.

And the way this school in Maine is, if you sign a release form saying the school nurse can treat your child for minor things, all of the sudden they are allowed to put your 11 year old daughter on the birth control pill without telling you.

 

That is wrong.

 

I didn't contradict myself. Schools are mandatory, church isn't, thus making the situations different. If my position as a church leader agrees with what the parents are already teaching about sex, then I m just reinforcing the teachings of the parents. But again, it is up to the parents.

[wez]

as I said, I already addressed that (I put some points in bold so you wouldn't miss them):

 

 

 

I didn't contradict myself. Schools are mandatory, church isn't, thus making the situations different. If my position reinforces what the parents are already teaching about sex, then I m just reinforcing their original stance. But again, it is the parents call.

 

Go to your room and think about it for a while... I'm too lazy to quote "the issue is parents turning their responsibilities over to other people" rant again. It's up there.. check it out.. I guess I apply your rules to you, whereas you apply your rules to everyone but you. Is that why "we" don't see eye to eye?

 

Hard to see with a log in your eye, friend. I gotta go study for pharmacology test.. BTW I got into that nursing program and shot a 78 my last time out. .. Hahahahaha

 

Later bud

[eddo]

you're doing the "apples to oranges" thing again, but since you couldn't see it before, I don't expect you to see it now.

[timesjoke]

you're doing the "apples to oranges" thing again, but since you couldn't see it before, I don't expect you to see it now.

 

You clearly showed the difference between your voluntary instruction for kids with parents having the final say on if their children are exposed to what you are teaching and a mandatory class provided by the government.

 

 

The government mandatory class gives no options, it forces a presuption of sexual bahavoirs that can rub off on impresionable children.

 

 

 

 

You also do not provide the "pill" to children without specific permission from parents.

 

 

 

As you said apples to oranges.

[wez]

You clearly showed the difference between your voluntary instruction for kids with parents having the final say on if their children are exposed to what you are teaching and a mandatory class provided by the government.

 

 

The government mandatory class gives no options, it forces a presuption of sexual bahavoirs that can rub off on impresionable children.

 

 

 

 

You also do not provide the "pill" to children without specific permission from parents.

 

 

 

As you said apples to oranges.

 

I see, so the problem isn't lazy parents not parenting that's the problem, as eddo cites, it's that the all lazy parents haven't given eddo the authority to teach their kids all things sex.. Got it. My mistake, sorry bout that.

 

Hey eddo, how come the parents at your church aren't included in the lazy parent, turning their duties over to other people, catagory? Please explain...

[snafu]

I see, so the problem isn't lazy parents not parenting that's the problem, as eddo cites, it's that the all lazy parents haven't given eddo the authority to teach their kids all things sex.. Got it. My mistake, sorry bout that.

 

I think eddo's approach would be pretty damn good. Abstinence is a very hard concept to sell to the young. And then and only then as a second alternative you explain contraceptives. I think they do teach it this way but the don't emphasizes abstinence enough though. Most kids won't listen and so that's why it needs to be more commercialized. It needs to catch the kids attention. I don't think they would listen to an old fat like me or eddo though. there's gotta be a better sales pitch.

[timesjoke]

I see, so the problem isn't lazy parents not parenting that's the problem, as eddo cites, it's that the all lazy parents haven't given eddo the authority to teach their kids all things sex.. Got it. My mistake, sorry bout that.

 

Nope, you missed it again.

 

If the parents clearly know and are involved with what is being told to their children, then they are being great parents. In Eddo's example, the perents know everything and (here comes the biggest point so pay attention) they can decide to not have their children be exposed to his instruction.

 

 

It is the "informed" choice that completely seperates what Eddo is doing from what the school is doing.

 

 

 

Hey eddo, how come the parents at your church aren't included in the lazy parent, turning their duties over to other people, catagory? Please explain...

 

Again, it is the "informed" choice.

 

 

Not all parents are good speakers, not all parents know and understand everything in a way to talk about them openly. Many single mothers feel uncomfortable talking to their sons about these things and the father is not arround. I have been asked by many women to talk to their sons on this topic because they know, respect, and trust me.

 

 

You can be involved without speaking the words, but it is the involvement that makes a parent a good parent.

[eddo]

Nope, you missed it again.

If the parents clearly know and are involved with what is being told to their children, then they are being great parents. In Eddo's example, the perents know everything and (here comes the biggest point so pay attention) they can decide to not have their children be exposed to his instruction.

It is the "informed" choice that completely seperates what Eddo is doing from what the school is doing.

Again, it is the "informed" choice.

Not all parents are good speakers, not all parents know and understand everything in a way to talk about them openly. Many single mothers feel uncomfortable talking to their sons about these things and the father is not arround. I have been asked by many women to talk to their sons on this topic because they know, respect, and trust me.

You can be involved without speaking the words, but it is the involvement that makes a parent a good parent.

 

Glad to see that you and Snafu get what I am saying.

[wez]

Glad to see that you and Snafu get what I am saying.

 

 

What about my last question?

[timesjoke]

What about my last question?

 

Already answered, here, I will post it again.

 

Hey eddo, how come the parents at your church aren't included in the lazy parent, turning their duties over to other people, catagory? Please explain...

 

Again, it is the "informed" choice.

 

 

Not all parents are good speakers, not all parents know and understand everything in a way to talk about them openly. Many single mothers feel uncomfortable talking to their sons about these things and the father is not arround. I have been asked by many women to talk to their sons on this topic because they know, respect, and trust me.

 

 

You can be involved without speaking the words, but it is the involvement that makes a parent a good parent.

[wez]

Already answered, here, I will post it again.

 

 

 

Again, it is the "informed" choice.

 

 

Not all parents are good speakers, not all parents know and understand everything in a way to talk about them openly. Many single mothers feel uncomfortable talking to their sons about these things and the father is not arround. I have been asked by many women to talk to their sons on this topic because they know, respect, and trust me.

 

 

You can be involved without speaking the words, but it is the involvement that makes a parent a good parent.

 

No prob, I'll just direct my questions for eddo to you from now on..

 

Why does eddo clearly state who's job it is to raise their kids, thrice over, and not apply his rants/rules to him and the parents at his church the same way he applies them to others? Who is he to judge any parent or any teacher? I'm sure the parents were informed that the school is going to provide access to birth control, don't like it? Send em to another school = informed consent...

 

You may now commence with the apples/oranges speech again..

[eddo]

Wez, I never said that parents couldn't use outside assistance, but to totally turn the experience over to the gov't and school system is not a good idea.

 

 

Some parents may go to the school and find out what is being taught and how before the sex ed class. These are good parents because they are involved in the sex education of their children- even if they themselves may not teach it. Others (the ones to which I am referring) just turn the entire discussion over to the schools without being involved or informed. That is a bad idea, in my opinion.

 

Now please, lets not turn this post into a "Wez hates eddo" post, ok? Try to put the past behind you and read what I am actually saying instead of putting your thoughts into my words. ok?

[wez]

Now please, lets not turn this post into a "Wez hates eddo" post, ok? Try to put the past behind you and read what I am actually saying instead of putting your thoughts into my words. ok?

 

Hahahahaha.. for the billionth time, wez loves eddo, despite. Have I ever said otherwise? Have you?

 

So, how do you approach the subject of contraception and disease prevention for those who will and do have sex?

[timesjoke]

No prob, I'll just direct my questions for eddo to you from now on..

 

He has been very clear but you seem to lack the ability to understand so I am just trying to help you understand. I have three children and am used to dealing with the less than adult mental state.

 

Why does eddo clearly state who's job it is to raise their kids, thrice over, and not apply his rants/rules to him and the parents at his church the same way he applies them to others? Who is he to judge any parent or any teacher?

 

 

Again you fail to grasp the situation.

 

The difference is plain as day but you are either acting stupid or so dense that english cannot penetrate.

 

Let me post this again.

 

Not all parents are good speakers, not all parents know and understand everything in a way to talk about them openly. Many single mothers feel uncomfortable talking to their sons about these things and the father is not arround. I have been asked by many women to talk to their sons on this topic because they know, respect, and trust me.

 

 

You can be involved without speaking the words, but it is the involvement that makes a parent a good parent.

 

 

I'm sure the parents were informed that the school is going to provide access to birth control, don't like it? Send em to another school = informed consent...

 

You may now commence with the apples/oranges speech again..

 

One is government both replacing parental responsibility and not even telling the parents how far they are going with each child or even ask if they want their child to be put on birth control pills. The state makes the classes "mandatory" in every school and there is no possible way for the parent to keep their child from being given that instruction.

 

 

 

The other is private people, giving an informed consent for their child to attend a "non-mandatory" sex education class. The parent knows exactly what is being told to their kids.