Want a good debate on censorship

November 17, 2007

should censorship be allowed in the usa. this country was founded on freedom of speach, and the freedom of the press. but now the government is trying to take that all away by cersoring everything that comes about. i can understand censorship on the topic of nudity and the like, but for things such as cd's and cartoon shows it has gone a little too far. i mean really, they cancelled soo many cartoons because they were too violent or politically incorrect. and music has gotten out of hand for censorship too. i say let the artist express themselves however they feel. if they swear, so be it. it shouldnt be up to the government to decide what is right and wrong to say on a music cd. it should be the parents call on what their children should be able to listen to. freedom of speech is starting to die and we need to do something about it. please provide your imput on the topic.

snafu · November 17, 2007

should censorship be allowed in the usa. this country was founded on freedom of speach, and the freedom of the press. but now the government is trying to take that all away by cersoring everything that comes about. i can understand censorship on the topic of nudity and the like, but for things such as cd's and cartoon shows it has gone a little too far. i mean really, they cancelled soo many cartoons because they were too violent or politically incorrect. and music has gotten out of hand for censorship too. i say let the artist express themselves however they feel. if they swear, so be it. it shouldnt be up to the government to decide what is right and wrong to say on a music cd. it should be the parents call on what their children should be able to listen to. freedom of speech is starting to die and we need to do something about it. please provide your imput on the topic.

Why stop at nudity?

eddo · November 17, 2007

Want a good debate on censorship

Sure, are you going to start one?

When has the gov't told a music artist that they cannot swear on a cd? As far as I know, they are required to put the "Parental Advisory" sticker on cd's that have excessive swearing and violent undertones, but I hardly call that censorship. Is there more to this?

When have cartoons been canceled? I know some have been removed from Saturday mornings (or other times when kids watch) but I don't know of any that were flat out canceled.

Do you have any examples of either of these claims, so we can better understand what you are referring to?

November 18, 2007

When have cartoons been canceled? I know some have been removed from Saturday mornings (or other times when kids watch) but I don't know of any that were flat out canceled.
QUOTE]

sure they put an advisory tag on it but i'm talking on things such as mtv, vh1 and that stuff.

and for shows that have been flat out canceled...take Rocko's Modern Life an old nic show that orriginally was stopped due to its sense of humor. the old looney toons show with speedy was stopped due to pollitical incorrectness.

wez · November 18, 2007

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine

Freedom has its life in the hearts, the actions, the spirit of men and so it must be daily earned and refreshed - else like a flower cut from its life-giving roots, it will wither and die. ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

Liberty is the possibility of doubting, of making a mistake,... of searching and experimenting,... of saying No to any authority - literary, artistic, philosophical, religious, social, and even political. ~Ignazio Silone, The God That Failed, 1950

Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln

Nations grown corrupt

Love bondage more than liberty;

Bondage with ease than strenuous liberty.

~John Milton

Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. ~Woodrow Wilson

I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. ~James Madison, speech, Virginia Convention, 1788

I got a f cking headache ~ wez

ImWithStupid · November 18, 2007

When have cartoons been canceled? I know some have been removed from Saturday mornings (or other times when kids watch) but I don't know of any that were flat out canceled.
QUOTE]

sure they put an advisory tag on it but i'm talking on things such as mtv, vh1 and that stuff.

and for shows that have been flat out canceled...take Rocko's Modern Life an old nic show that orriginally was stopped due to its sense of humor. the old looney toons show with speedy was stopped due to pollitical incorrectness.

Show where any of that was the government. From what I know, everything you have mentioned was done by the networks themselves not the government. In fact the only restrictions by the government, through the FCC, only applies to over the air, free broadcasts. All cable stations are self censored.

wez · November 18, 2007

Show where any of that was the government. From what I know, everything you have mentioned was done by the networks themselves not the government. In fact the only restrictions by the government, through the FCC, only applies to over the air, free broadcasts. All cable stations are self censored.

Since all media is controlled by about 5 companies now, I suggest putting your trust in the magic 8 ball.. it never lies.

hugo · November 18, 2007

Since all media is controlled by about 5 companies now, I suggest putting your trust in the magic 8 ball.. it never lies.

Which one of them five companies controls this site?

wez · November 18, 2007

Which one of them five companies controls this site?

Good point.... Where there's a will there's a way.

Make that, mass, popular media...

Although, I've yet to find a site that hasn't banned me.. til now.. so far.. Hahahahahahahaha

eddo · November 18, 2007

take Rocko's Modern Life an old nic show that orriginally was stopped due to its sense of humor. the old looney toons show with speedy was stopped due to pollitical incorrectness.

I don't know much of anything about Rocko's Modern Life. Could you explain what you mean when you say that it "was stopped due to its sense of humor"?

As for Looney Toons, they are still very much on TV, in fact I have seen some very anti-Japanese and anti-German ones recently on Turner Classic movies. They are very un-politically correct, but at the same time they are an important part of our history as a country. Pretty interesting stuff, if you can find it.

"Speedy Gonzalez" played on a lot of racial stereotypes (as did many early Looney Toons cartoons) and in this day in age, sponsors would throw more of a fit about those than the government would.

Since all media is controlled by about 5 companies now,

Which one of them five companies controls this site?

Good point.... Where there's a will there's a way.
Make that, mass, popular media...
Although, I've yet to find a site that hasn't banned me.. til now.. so far..

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with anything in this post?

wez · November 18, 2007

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with anything in this post?

What does that have to do with censorship? I don't know.. I must be confused. Why don't you fix me..

Does censorship exist eddo? Here, in America? Or is this convo bound to cartoons only? Help me "modify my behavior on a chat board". Hahahahahahaha.. dumbass.

Tell everyone your reasons behind your obsessive need to ban me and censor me from the www for 2 years... Hahahahahahaha

How about one reason, eddo?

eddo · November 18, 2007

What does that have to do with censorship? I don't know.. I must be confused. Why don't you fix me..
Does censorship exist eddo? Here, in America? Or is this convo bound to cartoons only? Help me "modify my behavior on a chat board". Hahahahahahaha.. dumbass.
Tell everyone your reasons behind your obsessive need to ban me and censor me from the www for 2 years... Hahahahahahaha
How about one reason, eddo?

oh I get it... instead of trying to have an actual discussion about something that could involve and be relevant to everyone, you would prefer to turn this into the same ole' eddo vs. wez fight.

Yeah, no thanks. The post is talking about censorship by the (I assume) American government, and you weren't censored by the government.

wez · November 18, 2007

oh I get it... instead of trying to have an actual discussion about something that could involve and be relevant to everyone, you would prefer to turn this into the same ole' eddo vs. wez fight.

Yeah, no thanks. The post is talking about censorship by the (I assume) American government, and you weren't censored by the government.

Yeah, that's it... I was censored by you though. Why?

See, the relevance is, it's the same reason why anyone censors anyone. So tell us why...

eddo · November 18, 2007

should censorship be allowed in the usa. this country was founded on freedom of speach, and the freedom of the press. but now the government is trying to take that all away by cersoring everything that comes about.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Freedom of Speech is a guarantee to say whatever you want, but it is not a guarantee that what you say will not cause you to face consequences from others because of what you said- just that Congress will not make a law saying that you can't say it.

Ask Don Imus. He said a few words and lost his job over it. So did Dog the Bounty Hunter. Now, the government didn't fire either of these two, nor did they arrest them or label them. Sponsors that pay for their respective shows, however, did make sure they weren't representing their products anymore.

There is most definitely a difference in being censored by Congress (the government) and being censored by people that pay your bills, or make it possible for you to do something (like post at their message board.)

wez · November 18, 2007

Freedom of Speech is a guarantee to say whatever you want, but it is not a guarantee that what you say will not cause you to face consequences from others because of what you said- just that Congress will not make a law saying that you can't say it.

Ask Don Imus. He said a few words and lost his job over it. So did Dog the Bounty Hunter. Now, the government didn't fire either of these two, nor did they arrest them or label them. Sponsors that pay for their respective shows, however, did make sure they weren't representing their products anymore.

There is most definitely a difference in being censored by Congress (the government) and being censored by people that pay your bills, or make it possible for you to do something (like post at their message board.)

So, you felt the need to administer consequences on me for saying what?

And what gave you the authority to do so?

Why did you feel the need to censor me?

I'm telling you that the reason anyone censors anyone has no difference. You tell me the difference, if you keep refusing to tell the reason.

Why would you think that you "made it possible" for me, to post on a message board?

eddo · November 18, 2007

ok wez, I will answer these questions, not for you, but for others that are reading these.

So, you felt the need to administer consequences on me for saying what?

You were argumentative and combative. Causing discord and, frankly, you were trolling. Much like you have done here- to try to repeatedly make this about you and I, when it isn't, or should it be dragged here.

And what gave you the authority to do so?

The authority to do so, as well as responsibility to look out for the best interests of the board, was bestowed upon me by the owners of the web forum that you voluntarily joined.

There is no "freedom of speech" implied nor expressed at that site, infact, the Rules and FAQ- which you agreed to when you joined it- expressly say some things are off limits to discuss.

Why did you feel the need to censor me?

You were argumentative and combative. Causing discord and, frankly, you were trolling.

I'm telling you that the reason anyone censors anyone has no difference. You tell me the difference.

Ultimately the reasons may be the same: someone says something you don't like (for whatever reason,) so you use the power at your disposal to make sure they don't say it again in connection with you- but it is not the same as the American Government passing a law making it illegal for you to say it. (which is the point of this discussion, and isn't happening like ziraa1010 seems to think.)

Why would you think that you "made it possible" for me, to post on a message board?

Would the board have been there for you to post on if not for the owners that created it? Those same owners are the ones that at the time gave me the authority to ban you. (might I add, just for everyone else's benefit, that you have been banned from that same board no less than 3 times- by other admins- since the time we are discussing where I did the banning.)

wez · November 18, 2007

ok wez, I will answer these questions, not for you, but for others that are reading these.

You were argumentative and combative. Causing discord and, frankly, you were trolling. Much like you have done here- to try to repeatedly make this about you and I, when it isn't, or should it be dragged here.

Why don't you be more specific. Why, after I was banned, did you proceed to try to censor me at GF and SWYW?

The authority to do so, as well as responsibility to look out for the best interests of the board, was bestowed upon me by the owners of the web forum that you voluntarily joined.
There is no "freedom of speech" implied nor expressed at that site, infact, the Rules and FAQ- which you agreed to when you joined it- expressly say some things are off limits to discuss.

Why, after I was banned by you, did the owner of the site invite me back, and you were unbestowed your responsibilities of that particular forum?

You were argumentative and combative. Causing discord and, frankly, you were trolling.

Why don't you be more specific. You just described yourself.

Ultimately the reasons may be the same: someone says something you don't like (for whatever reason,) so you use the power at your disposal to make sure they don't say it again in connection with you- but it is not the same as the American Government passing a law making it illegal for you to say it. (which is the point of this discussion, and isn't happening like ziraa1010 seems to think.)

Who said anything about passing any laws making saying anything illegal? What did I say that you didn't like? Specifically...

For what (specific) reason for you personally?

Would the board have been there for you to post on if not for the owners that created it? Those same owners are the ones that at the time gave me the authority to ban you. (might I add, just for everyone else's benefit, that you have been banned from that same board no less than 3 times- by other admins- since the time we are discussing where I did the banning.)

Banned by one.. merc.. which was only for a week til my fun at SWYW.. who else and which 3 times?

eddo · November 18, 2007

Who said anything about passing any laws making saying anything illegal?

That is what this thread is about:

but now the government is trying to take that all away by cersoring everything that comes about.

Why don't you be more specific. Why, after I was banned, did you proceed to try to censor me at GF and SWYW?
Why, after I was banned by you, did the owner of the site invite me back, and you were unbestowed your responsibilities of that particular forum?
Why don't you be more specific.

Completely irrelevant to this discussion, and will only rehash a fight that neither of us is willing to give on. again: No thanks. Your point on censorship, in that arena, I will grant you. You were indeed censored (repeatedly, IMO for the betterment of the discussion board.)

I still fail to see your connection between this and how "all media is controlled by about 5 companies now."

eddo · November 18, 2007

disregard this post. I goofed.

wez · November 18, 2007

That is what this thread is about:Completely irrelevant to this discussion, and will only rehash a fight that neither of us is willing to give on. again: No thanks. Your point on censorship, in that arena, I will grant you. You were indeed censored (repeatedly, IMO for the betterment of the discussion board.)
I still fail to see your connection between this and how "all media is controlled by about 5 companies now."

Censorship is never written into law. A fight, it is not, of which has never been discussed between us and like I said, It is the same reason why anyone censors anyone and the manner of which the censorship is conducted is in the exact same way.

I must have done something really bad... you must have one specific example.

eddo · November 18, 2007

We have discussed it many times, and I am not interested in going there again.

What do you think "is the same reason why anyone censors anyone and the manner of which is conducted in the exact same way"?

wez · November 18, 2007

We have discussed it many times, and I am not interested in going there again.

Then post our discussion. Saying it will never make it come true.

What do you think "is the same reason why anyone censors anyone and the manner of which is conducted in the exact same way"?

We'll get to that as soon as you tell why you did what you did and provide a specific example of what I said and how that made you feel the need to censor me.

eddo · November 18, 2007

We'll get to that as soon as you tell why you did what you did and provide a specific example of what I said and how that made you feel the need to censor me.

Then I guess I am done with you in this post.

wez · November 18, 2007

Then I guess I am done with you in this post.

Therin lies the extent of our discussion, again. Toodles.

wez · November 18, 2007

It is characteristic of human nature to hate the man you have wronged. ~ Tacitus

Why do you pm me eddo? All matters can be discussed here.

Did bb say anything to you concerning me when she invited me back and did that have anything to do with your "disagreement" between "friends"?

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