dead scumbags

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

For myself, I can only say that I am happy that these two turds are dead. My only concern is for the old man.

 

Unless they threatened his life prior to him opening fire, he may be looking at time in jail.

 

Its hard to tell from the audio if this happened or not. I'm guessing it did. Burglars normally commit the crime armed, to avoid arrest.

 

[ame]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4dc_1195205938[/ame]

[snafu]

He murdered two people plain and simple. Like the 911 operator said there's no property worth dieing or killing for. Dumb ass will be in jail a long time figuring that one out.

[eddo]

He murdered two people plain and simple. Like the 911 operator said there's no property worth dieing or killing for. Dumb ass will be in jail a long time figuring that one out.

 

I have to agree.

[Old Salt]

I've got to agree, too. And it wasn't even his house.

[wez]

Really ought to get to know an individual personally before you decide you're capable of determining whether they have the right to live or die..

[hugo]

He won't go to jail. In Texas we have open season on scumbags. I suggest ya go to some liberal state if ya wanna steal.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I read somewhere, that in the US you don't have a right to shoot a burglar. What you do have, is a right to open fire on an intruder if you are in fear of your life. So the best thing to avoid being in fear of his life was to stay in his house.

 

However, he also has a right to defend not only himself, his family and his property, but also that of his friends and neighbours.

 

In the UK we have what is called a citizen's arrest, I'm sure you have something similar in the US.

 

So then, he has the right to go next door, confront and arrest the criminals. I'm guessing that this is what he was trying to do. It's just not clear from the tape.

 

I'm hoping the police find the dead men's prints on guns/knives recovered from the scene.

 

I think the old guy did the world a favour. Scumbags like that sometimes go on to kill and rape during the burglary. The old guy should be given a medal.

[Jhony5]

That was really stupid. He didn't even make an audible command first. He just executed them. Stupid.

[Old Salt]

For myself, I can only say that I am happy that these two turds are dead. My only concern is for the old man.

 

Unless they threatened his life prior to him opening fire, he may be looking at time in jail.

 

Its hard to tell from the audio if this happened or not. I'm guessing it did. Burglars normally commit the crime armed, to avoid arrest.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4dc_1195205938

I think you'll find the most burglars are unarmed. They don't expect to meet any resistance because they normally enter unoccupied homes.

[Old Salt]

That was really stupid. He didn't even make an audible command first. He just executed them. Stupid.

It would have been nice if he would have said "stop, or I'll shoot," bang-bang instead of bang-bang, "I got 'em".

[ImWithStupid]

I read somewhere, that in the US you don't have a right to shoot a burglar. What you do have, is a right to open fire on an intruder if you are in fear of your life. So the best thing to avoid being in fear of his life was to stay in his house.

 

However, he also has a right to defend not only himself, his family and his property, but also that of his friends and neighbours.

 

In the US there isn't any law dealing with protecting property with lethal force. All we have is self defense. Self defense can only be claimed in a case where you are in fear of your life. Self defense also applies if you kill someone if they are threatening the life of another, as long as in that situation the other person would have been justified to kill them. There is also a thing called the "Castle Doctrine", where you are required to make any reasonable attempt to retreat from the threat, if possible, before using lethal force, except when in ones own home. In your OWN home you have no requirement to retreat.

 

In the UK we have what is called a citizen's arrest, I'm sure you have something similar in the US.

 

So then, he has the right to go next door, confront and arrest the criminals. I'm guessing that this is what he was trying to do. It's just not clear from the tape.

 

I don't know about every state but here in Nebraska, the only way to legally justify a "citizens arrest", or detaining someone against their will, is a shopkeeper or employee in shoplifting cases, or in assisting a law enforcement officer.

 

I'm hoping the police find the dead men's prints on guns/knives recovered from the scene.

 

I think the old guy did the world a favour. Scumbags like that sometimes go on to kill and rape during the burglary. The old guy should be given a medal.

In the UK we have what is called a citizen's arrest, I'm sure you have something similar in the US.

 

I too think he did the world a favor, but I think he could be in trouble for his actions.

 

If I remember right, I don't think the neighbor was home, so he couldn't have been protecting them and an armed confrontation outside your home, to protect property, isn't covered in any self defense law I know. He can't claim self defense when he instigated the confrontation.

 

This is kind of like if someone intentionally runs someone down with their car, they can be charged with murder or attempted murder, if they don't die, but not if the person purposely stepped in front of the car, to stop someone from leaving.

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[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I think you'll find the most burglars are unarmed. They don't expect to meet any resistance because they normally enter unoccupied homes.

 

I have read of many burglaries that turned really nasty in the UK. One poor woman was fast asleep in her bed. She was beaten so severely that she was left an invalid after the assault.

 

Do you really believe that most burglars are unarmed ? How do you think they get in ?

 

They have tools with them which double up as weapons, just ask a police officer. That's how it happens over here anyway. A few years ago a police officer in Liverpool UK was stabbed by a burglar with a sharpened screwdriver. The criminal tried to argue that the stabbing was an accident, and also that it was really just a lever which he used to gain entrance to the victims house.

 

Criminals will say anything to try and lessen the sentence.

[snafu]

I think you'll find the most burglars are unarmed. They don't expect to meet any resistance because they normally enter unoccupied homes.

 

Hahaa. I wonder who took the survey. I don't believe so.

And I'm not gonna risk any statistics with my families lives so it wouldn't matter if you could prove that statement or not.

 

IWS said right in that you have to fear for your life or other before you can take lethal actions. All of our states have their own laws pertaining to this but it's basically the same. In the state of Alaska if someone comes into my house I can shoot him if I feel threatened. The first words out of your mouth after such an ordeal would be "I feared for my life". If I shot him in the back I would have a lot of explaining to do.

 

If someone was stealing my car and I had a gun I couldn't shoot that person trying to leave unless I feared he was gonna run me over. I would have to stand there and watch him drive away.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

There is also a thing called the "Castle Doctrine", where you are required to make any reasonable attempt to retreat from the threat, if possible, before using lethal force, except when in ones own home. In your OWN home you have no requirement to retreat..

 

It seems pretty strange to me that you should be required to back off from the guy and watch as he took off with your car, suitcase etc. Sure, it may save a life, but you may never see your car again too. I think I know what the insurance company will say when you phone them too..

 

I don't know about every state but here in Nebraska, the only way to legally justify a "citizens arrest", or detaining someone against their will, is a shopkeeper or employee in shoplifting cases, or in assisting a law enforcement officer..

 

In the UK, in the absence of an officer we have temporary officer powers, which cease once the police arrive. At least I think I'm right here. Very seldom do people utilise this law, as usually it leads to violence. Meanwhile, we get bad press about those people who were "there" and stood watching doing nothing. But what are we supposed to do ? We cannot have guns. And we cannot carry a knife etc, but the criminal almost certainly has a weapon. It's not surprising that most people don't want to get involved really.

 

 

 

I too think he did the world a favor, but I think he could be in trouble for his actions.

.

 

I agree. Its such a shame. Those arseholes were going to spend the rest of their worthless lives stealing, burgling, mugging and probablty end up raping and killing. That old guy is a hero to me. He should be decorated.

 

There are many people who will now never become the victims of those turds. They will never know how much they owe that old guy. I hope Hugo is right. I hope he does not get punished.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Then pray he is from Texas.

[timesjoke]

People willing to rob a home in the middle of the day are hard criminals, and will (I did not say might) do harder crimes. It is in their blood, once a man moves to that level of crime, he is a complete waste of air and needs to be removed from society.

 

That said, I don't believe they should all die but death is one way to be sure they don't continue to prey on society.

 

I find it difficult to feel bad for hard criminals because it is their own actions that lead to these kinds of stories. Without the criminal act, they would now be alive and no news story so we must look to their criminal mind to find the beginning of the mess.

 

 

How much you wanna bet other criminals in that area are now thinking twice?

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Then pray he is from Texas.

 

I think they said Pasadena. No idea where that is in the USA.

[hugo]

I think they said Pasadena. No idea where that is in the USA.

 

Right near Houston, Texas. Harris County, he will walk.

[Old Salt]

Right near Houston, Texas. Harris County, he will walk.

In his case, I think a conviction is in order. The court can give him probation if it wants, but a felony conviction will take the gun out of his hands. He has proven he can't be trusted (IMO).

[hugo]

In his case, I think a conviction is in order. The court can give him probation if it wants, but a felony conviction will take the gun out of his hands. He has proven he can't be trusted (IMO).

 

 

Deadly Force to Protect Property

(Texas Penal Code)

(Briggs p. 96)

 

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."

 

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to pervent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

 

 

 

 

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Protection of the Property of Others

(Texas Penal Code)

(Briggs p. 97)

 

"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."

 

"Also, a person is justified in using force or deadly force if he reasonably believes that the third person has requested his protection of property; or he has a legal duty to protect the property; or the third person whose property he is protecting is his spouse, parent or child."

 

 

 

 

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Reasonable Belief

(Quoted from a ruling of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals)

(Briggs p. 92ff)

 

"It is not necessary that there should be actual danger, as a person has the right to defend his life and person from apparent danger as fully and to the same extent as he would have were the danger real, as it reasonably appeared to him from his standpoint at the time."

 

"In fact, Sec 9.31(a) [of the Penal Code] expressly provides that a person is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary."

 

He will walk. Looks to me like proper use of that shotgun.

[timesjoke]

He will walk. Looks to me like proper use of that shotgun.

 

 

If removing scum like this from society is not a proper use of a shotgun, I don't want to be right.

[Guest Stedric]

If removing scum like this from society is not a proper use of a shotgun, I don't want to be right.

 

Good, because you aren't. In any case the vast majority of scum end up in politics, generally not being shot.

 

No matter how much people may wish otherwise, we do not have the right to decide whether someone lives or dies. That choice was not for this man to decide or anyone else.

 

Do you like having police around? Do you think we need police? Because if everyone followed this guy's train of logic, than we might as well buy everyone a shotgun and disband the police entirely.

[snafu]

Good, because you aren't. In any case the vast majority of scum end up in politics, generally not being shot.

 

No matter how much people may wish otherwise, we do not have the right to decide whether someone lives or dies. That choice was not for this man to decide or anyone else.

 

Do you like having police around? Do you think we need police? Because if everyone followed this guy's train of logic, than we might as well buy everyone a shotgun and disband the police entirely.

 

Yeap......

[hugo]

Good, because you aren't. In any case the vast majority of scum end up in politics, generally not being shot.

 

No matter how much people may wish otherwise, we do not have the right to decide whether someone lives or dies. That choice was not for this man to decide or anyone else.

 

Do you like having police around? Do you think we need police? Because if everyone followed this guy's train of logic, than we might as well buy everyone a shotgun and disband the police entirely.

 

We have the right to attempt to stop those in the act of committing a crime. In pretty much every state we have the right to stop them with force if they respond to our defense of law with aggression. In Texas we can blow them away if they are stealing our property and, in some cases, the property of others. An armed citizenry aids the police it does not replace them. The fact we have cars does not mean we should get rid of buses.

[snafu]

We have the right to attempt to stop those in the act of committing a crime. In pretty much every state we have the right to stop them with force if they respond to our defense of law with aggression. In Texas we can blow them away if they are stealing our property and, in some cases, the property of others. An armed citizenry aids the police it does not replace them. The fact we have cars does not mean we should get rid of buses.

 

Armed citizens don't help cops. Don't get me wrong. I'm armed a lot of the time too. And if I see a robbery taking place say in a store, I might intervine if I feel someone is being threatend But you might get shot yourself or be in the way if police are present. Also (not in this case) after blowing them away I would hope you could prove they were stealing something. Third you better hope you kill the person becuse I can see them coming back and sueing you for one reason or another.