Maddy McCann

[hugo]

Our "system" ruined 126 lives in just this particular punishment, and that's just going back to 1973.

 

There is NO WAY whatsoever that America hasn't executed innocent men. NO WAY! Logic and just the plain 'ol law of averages says this is impossible.

 

DNA has only been solid for about ten years and it is usually the only reason people have been exonerated. Many counties discard evidence shortly after a conviction, leaving no recourse for the wrongly convicted.

 

I support the death penalty but don't lie like a snake and tell me you find it preposterous to claim that innocents have not been killed by the state.

 

There is no way conceivable, given the evidence of wrongful death penalty convictions, that at least a few (probably several) people have been strapped to the electric chair thinking "WTF I didn't do a damn thing".

 

The reason this happens is because our juries are fickle and are easily poisoned by overzealous prosecutors that spread lies and build a case entirely upon "maybes".

 

 

You can't name one innocent man. What you refer to as maybes is circumstantial evidence that starts adding up. At some point a collection of evidence where not one single piece overcomes reasonable doubt establishes guilt. You have been a criminal your whole adult life and sympathize with scumbags. You are the ideal juror for a defense attorney. Ye probably thinks OJ is innocent.

 

The reason OJ walked free is our juries and the population at large tend to oversympathize with monied defendents i.e. the McCanns

[Jhony5]

You can't name one innocent man.

I just named 126 of 'em.

 

They were sentenced to DIE for something they didn't even do. This is quite telling.

 

 

What you refer to as maybes is circumstantial evidence that starts adding up.

Circumstantial evidence can often be the only way to convict a guilty person whom has come close to committing a perfect crime.

 

The problem is when the reasonable doubt gets placed to the side to make room for a few easily explainable theories. There is a reason why the McCann's are not being indicted. This is because the evidence isn't there. Not even circumstantial evidence. It's all anecdotal and flawed. Every bit of it.

 

The only "evidence" they have barely qualifies as circumstantial. Which is a hit by cadaver dogs on their car, which wasn't even their car. It was a rental car hired 4 weeks after Maddy went missing and was driving by dozens of other people. If I cut a small chunk of my finger off in the trunk while changing a tire or what not, the scent would be recognizable by a cadaver dog as rotting human flesh.

 

What else they got? A few minuscule drops of blood that cannot even be identified as Maddy's?

 

You watch to much TV. As do our esteemed idiot juries.

 

This one is for you Hugo;

Gerry and Kate McCann Murdered Madeleine - South Park Style

[Jhony5]

Ye probably thinks OJ is innocent.

 

The reason OJ walked free is our juries and the population at large tend to over sympathize with monied defendents i.e. the McCanns

 

No, he was guilty as hell. He got away with it because the juries are fickle and they watch too much television. It goes both ways. The evidence in that case was OVERWHELMINGLY circumstantial. As a matter of fact, it wasn't circumstantial at all. Blood in the suspects vehicle that directly matches the victim 100%, is direct physical evidence.

 

You have been a criminal your whole adult life and sympathize with scumbags.

Ohhh c'mon Hugo. Don't try and paint me into a corner. I am a very unbiased observer that weighs every instance with an equal eye. Yes, I am a criminal. I used to be a very active one at that, committing a litany of crimes in my life. But I haven't victimized anyone since my youth. Minor assaults, drug dealing and petty thefts.

 

Since probably the age of 20, my only crimes have been smoking a weed that makes me giggle.

 

I do not sympathize with violent criminals, or any criminals that victimize other people.

[hugo]

How many of them wrongly convicted deathrow inmates had high priced attorneys? The fact is the McCanns are in the group that is most likely to get away with homicide. The initial investigation did not concentrate on them and left them the chance to dispose of the body despite the fact that statistics show the parent is the most likely perpetrator in a child abduction case.

 

There is a lot of blood that seems to be following the McCanns around. It must just be an unlucky coincidence.

 

Yes, the McCanns have lawyered up. Unless one of their partners in crime (another member of the Infamous Nine) confesses they will walk. Just like Durst, Patsy and OJ preferential treatment, plus a high priced attorney, will set them free.

 

On the other topic not one single innocent executed post-Furman. Not one.

 

Also remember the standard for a guilty verdict is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Few of those 126 were proven innocent.

[snafu]

............

On the other topic not one single innocent executed post-Furman. Not one.

 

Also remember the standard for a guilty verdict is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Few of those 126 were proven innocent.

 

You know that may be true but I can't believe that our system is so great that it's not possible. It's expensive to retire and even reopen a case. So no ones gonna foot the bill to check out to many past cases. But.... We've seen exonerated cases of death roe inmates due to DNA testing. I know you would not concede that it's impossible that we in fact executed an innocent man. You are merely stating the rules of engagement. And I understand. You are correct.

[hugo]

You know that may be true but I can't believe that our system is so great that it's not possible. It's expensive to retire and even reopen a case. So no ones gonna foot the bill to check out to many past cases. But.... We've seen exonerated cases of death roe inmates due to DNA testing. I know you would not concede that it's impossible that we in fact executed an innocent man. You are merely stating the rules of engagement. And I understand. You are correct.

 

Of course, it is possible. However, it must be very rare because the anti-death penalty folks have been looking for the innocent executed poster boy for a damn long time and they got resources. It does not apply to the McCanns anyways. They are among the socioeconomic group that tends to get away with murder.

[snafu]

Of course, it is possible. However, it must be very rare because the anti-death penalty folks have been looking for the innocent executed poster boy for a damn long time and they got resources. It does not apply to the McCanns anyways. They are among the socioeconomic group that tends to get away with murder.

 

Yeah I agree totally. They're gonna walk because they got the money. I wouldn't doubt if they didn't already use a lot of money covering this up. I think they would've had local help buts that's my thoughts.

[Jhony5]

Also remember the standard for a guilty verdict is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Few of those 126 were proven innocent.

But that standard isn't always met. And this goes both ways, innocent and guilty verdicts. OJ, for example, a case wherein the preponderance of evidence was extraordinary and the reasonable doubt was quite unreasonable.

 

Also, to comment on what you said; "Few of those 126 were proven innocent".

 

Sometimes you CANNOT prove yourself innocent, no matter how much cash you dump into a lawyer. Sometimes I wonder just how many innocent people have gone to prison just for being unlucky enough to find a body./

 

But the worst thing that can happen to you, the one thing that mindf cks the jury into killing you for something you did not do, is faulty eyewitness testimony.

 

Kirk Bloodsworth Maryland Conviction: 1984, Charges Dismissed: 1993

Bloodswoth was convicted and sentenced to death for the rape and murder of a young girl. Despite alibi witnesses, he was convicted primarily on the basis of faulty eyewitness identification. When it was discovered that the state failed to disclose exculpatory evidence, Bloodsworth received a new trial, at which he was convicted and given a life sentence. He was released after subsequent DNA testing confirmed his innocence.

 

This guy was innocent and despite prosecutorial foul play, he was wrongly convicted TWICE! F king twice! If not for DNA, the world would have buried this man as a guilty man.

 

Another thing to consider; Many counties/districts actually throw away all evidence after the execution. Making the task of proving an executed man innocent, impossible.

[Jhony5]

Yeah I agree totally. They're gonna walk because they got the money. I wouldn't doubt if they didn't already use a lot of money covering this up. I think they would've had local help buts that's my thoughts.

 

Money does nothing if they have real evidence against you. Nothing. Celebrity and racial bias, now thats a different story.

 

'No evidence' means we cannot get in the habit of convicting people because they may be guilty, maybe, possibly, just might be if you think about it.

[snafu]

Money does nothing if they have real evidence against you. Nothing. Celebrity and racial bias, now thats a different story.

 

'No evidence' means we cannot get in the habit of convicting people because they may be guilty, maybe, possibly, just might be if you think about it.

 

Yes money can cover up evidence. You have "tampering with evidence" all the time. Money can get you out!

[snafu]

Scenario: If Some one is paid to say you went to check on your kids every 20 minutes and the police took that into account that would be covering your tracks for money.

 

That was one of the conflicting stories.

[Jhony5]

Scenario: If Some one is paid to say you went to check on your kids every 20 minutes and the police took that into account that would be covering your tracks for money.

 

That was one of the conflicting stories.

 

A scenario like that would unravel as fast as it was concocted.

 

Yes money can cover up evidence. You have "tampering with evidence" all the time. Money can get you out!

You either have proof of tampering or you do not. Money has nothing to do with it. OJ's trial shouldn't even be used as precedent because that trial was a f cking circus. The excuses he came up with were the likes that a rookie public defender could have dreamed up.

 

As soon as it was discovered that Mark Fuhrman said "n gger": that trial was over.

 

Tampering was never proven in that case on Fuhrman's behalf.

 

As to the McCann's; there is no evidence for them to pay to make disappear. A few microscopic traces of blood that cannot be shown from whom the blood came. I don't know why we're discussing how money can get you off when the McCann's having spent a dime defending themselves. They've spent money trying to find their daughter, but not defending themselves.

[hugo]

Money does nothing if they have real evidence against you. Nothing. Celebrity and racial bias, now thats a different story.

 

'No evidence' means we cannot get in the habit of convicting people because they may be guilty, maybe, possibly, just might be if you think about it.

 

Maybe you should google Durst murder. They don't pay them lawyers high fees for nothing. The McCanns will most likely get away with murdering their daughter.

 

The McCanns' lawyer ain't working pro bono. They get a bunch of suckers paying for the best lawyer money can buy.

 

Branson's fund for McCann lawyers

 

Madeleine McCann has been missing since May

Tycoon Sir Richard Branson is giving ?100,000 to a fund to assist Kate and Gerry McCann with their legal costs.

His spokeswoman said: "He wants to give them a chance to have a fair hearing."

 

The McCanns, from Leicestershire, have been named suspects in the inquiry into the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine in Portugal on 3 May.

 

They are being advised by Michael Caplan QC, who fought efforts to extradite General Pinochet. Sir Richard is asking other rich people to donate.

 

"Over the last few weeks Richard has been watching events as they have unfolded," said his spokeswoman.

 

 

Branson flew Gerry McCann to the US on one of his planes

"There is a whole family involved here. When the McCanns made it known that under no circumstances would they touch the Find Madeleine fund, and discussed selling their house, Richard felt something had to be done."

 

Sir Richard is a father himself and the most important thing for him is that a four-year-old girl is missing, the spokeswoman added.

 

"If he can help a little bit to take the burden off the family and extended family in this small way, then that's all to the good."

 

This fund's money will be focused on finding that little girl and leaving no stone unturned

 

 

Mr McCann, a consultant cardiologist, is on unpaid leave and his wife has confirmed she does not yet plan to return to work as a locum doctor.

 

The McCanns have said they will not use any of the ?1m "Find Madeleine" fund to finance their legal costs.

 

Sir Richard has kept in touch with the couple since Madeleine disappeared from their holiday apartment.

 

His Virgin Group companies have helped the McCanns over the last four months.

 

Virgin Atlantic flew Gerry McCann out to the US to talk to child abduction experts, and Virgin Mobile sent texts to their customers in Spain and Portugal asking them to keep looking for Madeleine, shortly after she disappeared.

 

New campaign

 

The help with legal costs comes a day after the McCanns announced another advertising campaign to publicise the disappearance of their daughter.

 

Up to ?80,000 from donations to the Madeleine Fund will be used for newspaper, television and billboard adverts beginning in a fortnight.

 

The support from Sir Richard also coincides with the decision by life-long friends of Kate McCann to publicly defend her reputation as a mother.

 

Linda McQueen and Nicky Gill, who have known Kate McCann since childhood, gave an interview saying Kate and her husband Gerry were "the most loving, family-oriented couple".

 

Meanwhile, the McCanns attended Sunday mass at their local church in Rothley, Leicestershire, for the first time since returning from Portugal on 9 September.

 

 

McCanns are using the Madeline fund to pay off their and their parents' mortgages. They gettin' other rich people to pay the lawyers. Killing their daughter has been profitable for them. Who says crime don't pay?

 

Kate refused to take a lie detector test. Guilty as hell.

[Jhony5]

McCanns are using the Madeline fund to pay off their and their parents' mortgages. They gettin' other rich people to pay the lawyers. Killing their daughter has been profitable for them. Who says crime don't pay?

I think it is really sad that so many people could say such awful things about people they don't know. They aren't using fund money as a profit to pay their mortgage. That is just so wrong, Hugo. They paid their legal costs out of pocket for some time and damn near were going broke after being out of work for 6 months, so they used some of the fund money to pay for their mortgage that they paid out of pocket with permission from the fund treasurer. They weren't working so they could concentrate on their case and their daughter. Thusly, the fund money being used to pay for 2 months of their mortgage seems justified to me. Thats probably $2,000 out of the $2.3 million they have at their disposal.

 

Or at least that is the understanding I had of it. Of course those that already think that they killed their daughter are jumping on this like sharks on a wounded seal. With no regard to how they would feel if they were in the same boat.

 

This whole thing is sicko entertainment.

 

I just wanna know how y'all are gonna feel if and when the case is solved and the McCann's are cleared? Maybe that is an inappropriate question but I cannot help but to wonder.

[Jhony5]

Kate refused to take a lie detector test. Guilty as hell.

Dude, I would NEVER take a lie detector test. EVER. Junk science that has been proven highly fallible. Fail that and they're done, guilty or not.

 

Do not ever ever take one of those ignorant tests. Some critics have placed a 10%-20% fallibility rate on the lie detector. The true degree of err is unknown. 32 of the 50 states spit at the lie detector for use in court. For good reason.

[atlantic]

I think it is really sad that so many people could say such awful things about people they don't know. They aren't using fund money as a profit to pay their mortgage. That is just so wrong, Hugo. They paid their legal costs out of pocket for some time and damn near were going broke after being out of work for 6 months, so they used some of the fund money to pay for their mortgage that they paid out of pocket with permission from the fund treasurer. They weren't working so they could concentrate on their case and their daughter. Thusly, the fund money being used to pay for 2 months of their mortgage seems justified to me. Thats probably $2,000 out of the $2.3 million they have at their disposal.

 

Or at least that is the understanding I had of it. Of course those that already think that they killed their daughter are jumping on this like sharks on a wounded seal. With no regard to how they would feel if they were in the same boat.

 

This whole thing is sicko entertainment.

 

I just wanna know how y'all are gonna feel if and when the case is solved and the McCann's are cleared? Maybe that is an inappropriate question but I cannot help but to wonder.

People will never get past the fact that they left her alone and will cling to that. Even I cannot believe their ignorance. I do believe she was abducted by a stranger but that may not have happened if her parents were there. Hugo have a heart will ya.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Maybe she does some sort of training for med students or.........?

 

or maybe she killed the kid..

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Maybe she's a really, really bad GP and has a lot of patients die in her officie?

 

 

Yeah maybe. Kinda like Doctor Shipman. H was a GP in Manchester UK.He had a body count of maybe 100+

 

 

No wait. This makes him one in millions. I still think she did it.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Something stinks about this case.

 

I'm thinking you should go round there and spank the truth out of them Feckie

[timesjoke]

I think it is really sad that so many people could say such awful things about people they don't know.

 

But that is the problem I am having with what you are claiming.

 

 

You have said time and again that every police officer over there are liers. You keep making up all sorts of excuses and trying to streach the limits of reason for excuses when the story that is most likely based on statistics and does not need any twisting of the information we have at hand is that the parents are involved in some way, either an accident they are covering up or something much worse.

 

 

 

With this story, we don't need to imagins hundreds of corrupt police are all conspiring against these two people. With this story we don't need to make excuses for why cadavar dogs are not reliable, or why they hit on a car rented 4 weeks later. With this story we don't need to figure out an innocent way dogs could hit on the appartment. With this story we don't need to imagine why somone would use difficult entry methods or why the storys of the dinners don't match with the weighters.

 

With this story, everything lines up, everything looks like the parents were involved, now this bring up an old saying:

 

"If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, ant it quacks like a duck........there is a good chance it is a duck."

 

 

I just wanna know how y'all are gonna feel if and when the case is solved and the McCann's are cleared? Maybe that is an inappropriate question but I cannot help but to wonder.

 

For me, I am just a nobody making a deduction based on the available information and will not feel bad or good if new informations comes available to prove these parents innocent, to be honest, I have already said several times that most parents would rather believe a stranger does these bad things over a parent anyway.

 

 

 

 

I ask you the same question, while we have questioned the integrity and truthfulness of two people, you have maligned hundreds of police, and all of us for even daring to offer our opinions on this subject.

 

What will be your reaction if we are proven correct and all your personal attacks are proven to be wrong?

[hugo]

Dude, I would NEVER take a lie detector test. EVER. Junk science that has been proven highly fallible. Fail that and they're done, guilty or not.

 

Do not ever ever take one of those ignorant tests. Some critics have placed a 10%-20% fallibility rate on the lie detector. The true degree of err is unknown. 32 of the 50 states spit at the lie detector for use in court. For good reason.

 

 

If it meant an 80-90% (using your numbers) of clearing me in the eyes of the police so they would have more resources to find my child I would take that fallible test in a heartbeat. She's guilty.

[timesjoke]

A lie detector can only detect a "reaction" to the question given to you, nothing more. The concept is your going to react more when you tell a lie then when you are telling the truth. Any of us that have told lies and had that funny feeling in your stomach knows what I am talking about.

 

 

The failure rates talked about are concerning people who either have no reactions (certain mental conditions can account for this and drugs can also do this) or their reactions are not consistant for some reason so it makes the test less than accurate.

 

 

Certain things can be done by the tester to try and lead the subject to certain reactions but a good test is very reliable.

 

If I was considered as a suspect to the killing or abduction of my child and I was innocent, I would beg for a test, maybe I would ask for an independant group to do it, but I would do it to take unneeded attention away from me and get it directed tword the real criminals who harmed my child.

 

But if I was guilty, I would run from the test like the plague.

[hugo]

A lie detector can only detect a "reaction" to the question given to you, nothing more. The concept is your going to react more when you tell a lie then when you are telling the truth. Any of us that have told lies and had that funny feeling in your stomach knows what I am talking about.

 

 

The failure rates talked about are concerning people who either have no reactions (certain mental conditions can account for this and drugs can also do this) or their reactions are not consistant for some reason so it makes the test less than accurate.

 

 

Certain things can be done by the tester to try and lead the subject to certain reactions but a good test is very reliable.

 

If I was considered as a suspect to the killing or abduction of my child and I was innocent, I would beg for a test, maybe I would ask for an independant group to do it, but I would do it to take unneeded attention away from me and get it directed tword the real criminals who harmed my child.

 

But if I was guilty, I would run from the test like the plague.

 

I am betting her lawyers already gave her a test and she failed.

[snafu]

I am betting her lawyers already gave her a test and she failed.

 

Yeah they're gonna test the waters first. If she where to pass they would've jumped on it from the get.

[timesjoke]

I bet you are both dead on, if they could gather more support with the lie detector, they would but being as they refuse, I agree with you two, that was already removed as an option.