The Taser. Lazy mans handcuffs?

[Jhony5]

"Don't tase me bro"!!!

 

OK, Andrew Meyer, the Don't tase me bro" guy was a dumbass and well deserved his tasing. Frankly, he should have been tased well in advance of when he finally got it.

 

But a concerning trend is evolving in law enforcement. The "tase first ask questions later" approach is becoming more and more common.

 

I am often in full support of officers whom are accused of excessive force when they are merely just doing their duty.

 

But here is what I see as a clear cut case of assault and battery by a police officer with a taser.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH_qVJfaYZA]YouTube - Utah Highway Patrol camera, shows John Gardner being taser[/ame]

 

Full 10 minute video here. Some very interesting key points come out in the full version, including the officer caught lying through his teeth to his Sergeant about the details of the incident.

 

1) Notice the officer is just pulling over to clock speeders at the 40MPH sign, encounters Massey imeadiatly and has no way of knowing his speed. I'm not sure how he could even approximate it.

 

2) The wife/girlfriend was spot-on when she finally talks to the officer. As soon she starts speaking she says "The first thing you did is whip out your taser". Which is key. Why the hell did this guy pull out his taser when the guy was showing the officer the 40MPH sign. He pulls his taser cross-draw with no provocation.

 

Granted, the guy sorta walked backward away from him. However the officer never used the word "taser" and the guy likely thought he pulled his gun out. That sh t would spook anybody. Excuse the pun but the guy seemed genuinely "shocked" that this pig puts cross hairs on him without any provocation.

 

3) The officer never takes the time to explain to the guy that if he doesn't sign it, he is going to be arrested. This would seem to be an important missed step. My brother is a cop. I've been driving for 20 years.I've been to police-citizen training courses and I didn't even know this was an offense that warranted arrest. Maybe the guy didn't realize he HAD to sign it. Explaining this probably would have circumvented this whole scene.

 

4) The victim explained to the pig many many times the fact that he was not read his Miranda rights. Maybe someone can clarify this for me. But isn't that protocol when placing someone under arrest? At least at some point reasonably near or around the point in time when arresting someone?

 

5) The pigs Field Supervisor shows up and the pig gives an embellished version of events. Claiming that the guy started to walk away and THEN he pulls his taser and tells him he is going to taser him. He never said "tase", "taser" or "tasing". Not once. He lied to justify his reasoning. The first step when arresting a non-combatant is to pull out your handcuffs, not your "less-than-lethal" 50,000 volt taser that grossly resembles an actual firearm. He doesn't pull out his handcuffs until well after he electrocuted this man.

 

This video clears up more;

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ifEvD2PSd8&feature=related]YouTube - Utah state cop who was video of Tasering Jared Massey[/ame]

 

Apparently the man had his pregnant wife and a BABY with him at the time. Even more reason for the pig to remain calm and talk this situation out.

 

Jared Massey, the victim of the assault, says in a brief interview on this video "I thought it was a gun he was holding". No wonder he took a few steps back. Considering when this gun/taser was pulled he was using hand signals to show what he was talking about, speaking calmly and moving slowly. And BAM! The cop pulls what the victim thought was a firearm. Scarring the piss outta him.

 

Also, the reporter explains in this video that the answer to whether or not someone could be arrested for refusing to sign is "Technically, NO". Another citation is to be issued and then refusal to sign the tickets are cause for arrest.

 

Notice that I refer to the officer as "pig" and the suspect as "victim". I would think this young piggy is due for some serious disciplinary action at the very least. I would only be satisfied if he were arrested for assault, but that ain't gonna happen. If police continue to use the taser in this irresponsible manner, even I will ardently support the tasers removal from service.

 

You DO NOT pull out a taser before even your handcuffs when arresting a calm non-combative suspect for an extremely minor offense.

[eddo]

My thoughts:

 

#1- The cop wasn't as clear as he could have been. As you said Jhony, if he had told the "victim" that he would be arrested if he refused to sign the paper, it may have remedied this situation before it escalated. He also seems rather unsure of why he actually pulled the guy over- and in this video anyway, never gave him his busted at speed. Also, I think a taser warning should have happened. This situation wasn't so pronounced that it still couldn't be handled, and this officers ego didn't help anything. This situation should have never escalated to the point of bringing out the taser.

 

BUT...

 

 

#2- If a cop tells you to turn around and put your hands behind your back- you do it. Plain and simple. The "victim" was argumentative and repeatedly failed to do what he was told. People that don't do what cops tell them could very well be putting the cops in immediate danger. Like the cop said "The side of the road isn't the place to argue this." He deserved to get tasered.

 

Who's at fault? Both of them. The cop for being a power hungry jerk, and the "victim" for not doing what he was told.

[ImWithStupid]

"Don't tase me bro"!!!

 

OK, Andrew Meyer, the Don't tase me bro" guy was a dumbass and well deserved his tasing. Frankly, he should have been tased well in advance of when he finally got it.

 

But a concerning trend is evolving in law enforcement. The "tase first ask questions later" approach is becoming more and more common.

 

I am often in full support of officers whom are accused of excessive force when they are merely just doing their duty.

 

But here is what I see as a clear cut case of assault and battery by a police officer with a taser.

 

Let me first say, in my opinion the officer was justified in using the tazer when he did, but this is a situation like the lethal force defense of property law in Texas. Just because you are legally justified to use the level of force that you use, doesn't mean that you "should" or that it is the best option.

 

Full 10 minute video here. Some very interesting key points come out in the full version, including the officer caught lying through his teeth to his Sergeant about the details of the incident.

 

I don't know if I would say he is lying through his teeth, but he definitely embellished his version. He said that the told the guy to turn around and put his hands behind his back two times before pulling out the tazer and he only did it once, and he said he told the guy he was going to taze him and he didn't.

 

1) Notice the officer is just pulling over to clock speeders at the 40MPH sign, encounters Massey imeadiatly and has no way of knowing his speed. I'm not sure how he could even approximate it.

 

Modern police radar units can clock people going the same direction as the moving patrol car, they don't have to pull over to get a reading. I think the officer was probably pulling over to let him pass to stop him. Also if you listen close, the officer said that there was another speed limit sign back further down the road that the guy already passed.

 

2) The wife/girlfriend was spot-on when she finally talks to the officer. As soon she starts speaking she says "The first thing you did is whip out your taser". Which is key. Why the hell did this guy pull out his taser when the guy was showing the officer the 40MPH sign. He pulls his taser cross-draw with no provocation.

 

Actually he had given a command to turn around and put his hands behind his back, which the guy refused. Now with that said, it seemed clear to me that the guy thought the officer had asked him out of the car to talk about the speed limit sign and the officer didn't explain that if he didn't sign the ticket he would be arrested.

 

Granted, the guy sorta walked backward away from him. However the officer never used the word "taser" and the guy likely thought he pulled his gun out. That sh t would spook anybody. Excuse the pun but the guy seemed genuinely "shocked" that this pig puts cross hairs on him without any provocation.

 

I agree that the officer probably should have said something about it being a tazer but if the guy thought it was a gun, and he might have, the usual reaction to someone, especially a cop, pointing a gun at you is to comply or put your hands up. This guy not only turned around and walked back toward his vehicle where he could have had a weapon, but put his hands in his pockets. He's lucky it was a tazer, because at that point the officer would have been justified to shoot him if it was a gun. There are many instances of people walking away from officers to their vehicle and pull out a gun and shooting the officer.

 

3) The officer never takes the time to explain to the guy that if he doesn't sign it, he is going to be arrested. This would seem to be an important missed step. My brother is a cop. I've been driving for 20 years.I've been to police-citizen training courses and I didn't even know this was an offense that warranted arrest. Maybe the guy didn't realize he HAD to sign it. Explaining this probably would have circumvented this whole scene.

 

I completely agree. Like the retired cop said, if he had taken the time to explain this to the guy, things probably would have turned out different. The cop needs to learn to communicate better.

 

4) The victim explained to the pig many many times the fact that he was not read his Miranda rights. Maybe someone can clarify this for me. But isn't that protocol when placing someone under arrest? At least at some point reasonably near or around the point in time when arresting someone?

 

No where is it required that you advise Miranda when making an arrest if you have probable cause. For Miranda to be an issue you have to have two things. One, the person has to be in a custodial situation, which is any time a reasonable person would feel they didn't have the option of leaving (under arrest, during a traffic stop, or told they are being detained and can't leave). Which we have here. Two, the officer is interrogating the person. Which we don't have here. The officer isn't interrogating him.

 

5) The pigs Field Supervisor shows up and the pig gives an embellished version of events. Claiming that the guy started to walk away and THEN he pulls his taser and tells him he is going to taser him. He never said "tase", "taser" or "tasing". Not once. He lied to justify his reasoning. The first step when arresting a non-combatant is to pull out your handcuffs, not your "less-than-lethal" 50,000 volt taser that grossly resembles an actual firearm. He doesn't pull out his handcuffs until well after he electrocuted this man.

 

You DO NOT pull out a taser before even your handcuffs when arresting a calm non-combative suspect for an extremely minor offense.

 

I agree that there was some embellishing afterward but I don't think it was to justify his reasoning. Use of force allows tazer deployment on non compliant people. He was told to turn around and put his hands behind his back (which a reasonable person would know this is to be cuffed) and he refused, so no need to justify the tazing. I think other options should have been explored before using it though.

 

Also the first step to arresting someone is not to pull out your handcuffs. The first step is to get the person in a position to be cuffed. Until that point your hands are free if they don't comply. Then you pull out your cuffs and cuff them. This guy didn't comply with the command to put his hands behind his back. He might have been non-combative, but he was definitely also non-compliant.

 

Also, the reporter explains in this video that the answer to whether or not someone could be arrested for refusing to sign is "Technically, NO". Another citation is to be issued and then refusal to sign the tickets are cause for arrest.

 

The reporter said that technically you aren't required to sign a speeding ticket, but if you don't you will be arrested and given another ticket (this would be for refusal to sign). You have the option of refusing and going to jail instead along with another charge, not that you can't be arrested for this. When you sign a traffic ticket it is your guarantee that you will either pay the fine or appear in court. Every ticket I have ever been given has this printed at the bottom.

 

Your signature is not an admission of guilt, but a promise to appear. Failure to comply with the terms of this citation is punishable by jail or fine or both and may result in suspension of your operator's license.

or something very siminlar, and I have been given tickets in many states.

 

Notice that I refer to the officer as "pig" and the suspect as "victim". I would think this young piggy is due for some serious disciplinary action at the very least. I would only be satisfied if he were arrested for assault, but that ain't gonna happen. If police continue to use the taser in this irresponsible manner, even I will ardently support the tasers removal from service.

 

Again I will reiterate that the events could have been handled differently, but the officer, had the authority to do what he did. He just should have communicated better. As for discipline, he should have to go to a course for communicating better, not be charged with a crime.

 

As far as who else should have done what, differently. The guy should have just complied, signed the ticket got proof that there wasn't another sign back down the road, if there wasn't, or confirmed that he was in the wrong if there was one and he missed it, and along with the officers video (which would have to be made available to him if he requested it) could have made his case in court. Court is for making arguments not the side of the road where someone could be injured by a passing looky loo driver who isn't paying attention.

 

In summery, both of these people could have done things to keep this from escalating to the level it did. Like the old saying goes, there are three sides to every story, yours, theirs, and what really happened. The first two are usually biased.

[ImWithStupid]

He also seems rather unsure of why he actually pulled the guy over- and in this video anyway, never gave him his busted at speed.

 

The first thing he said to the guy when he walked up, was, "going a little fast, weren't you?"

 

I think the officer knew why he pulled the guy over and the speed he was clocked at would have been on the copy of the ticket if the guy had just signed it.

 

Who's at fault? Both of them. The cop for being a power hungry jerk, and the "victim" for not doing what he was told.

 

I agree completely here.

[hugo]

Anything short of a cop asking you to blow him just do it. Would eliminate a lot of tasering. Dumbasses tend to suffer a lot of unneeded pain.

[Old Salt]

The first thing he said to the guy when he walked up, was, "going a little fast, weren't you?"

 

I think the officer knew why he pulled the guy over and the speed he was clocked at would have been on the copy of the ticket if the guy had just signed it.

 

 

 

I agree completely here.

I got a warning ticket once for speeding. I didn't know exactly how fast I was going and asked the patrolman what speed he clocked me at. He told me that because he only gave me a warning he couldn't tell me (why, I don't know) but that if he had given me a ticket, the speed would have been written on the ticket.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

I think the cops have too much BS power... I understand making their work environment safer and all that. This was excessive. I've seen this video a couple of times now... it looks like assault to me.

[ImWithStupid]

I got a warning ticket once for speeding. I didn't know exactly how fast I was going and asked the patrolman what speed he clocked me at. He told me that because he only gave me a warning he couldn't tell me (why, I don't know) but that if he had given me a ticket, the speed would have been written on the ticket.

 

About 10 years ago, I asked a cop why they do that. His answer was that it was kind of a courtesy for other cops. He said technically they can give you a ticket for just being one MPH over, and since the warning/ticket grace period is up to each officer, they don't tell the speed on warnings. That way you don't go five miles down the road get pulled over at the same speed, get a ticket and argue with that officer that the last cop just give them a warning for going the same speed.

[Jhony5]

About 10 years ago, I asked a cop why they do that. His answer was that it was kind of a courtesy for other cops. He said technically they can give you a ticket for just being one MPH over, and since the warning/ticket grace period is up to each officer, they don't tell the speed on warnings. That way you don't go five miles down the road get pulled over at the same speed, get a ticket and argue with that officer that the last cop just give them a warning for going the same speed.

 

Here in Indiana it is a mandatory warning for 1-4 MPH over. This is due to fluctuations and certain manufacturing differences that effect the exact reading of a speedometer. Change your tires or rims to a slightly different size, age and wear and tear on the speedometer cable and gearing, many things cause a speedometer to fluctuate. Police cruisers are not exempt from this same range differential.

 

5MPH + is the standard ticketing range.

 

My only moving violation was a warning for 35MPh in a 30MPH zone. The speed was displayed on my warning ticket. My real violation was having a n gger in my Jeep in Greenwood Indiana at 3am.

 

I think the officer knew why he pulled the guy over and the speed he was clocked at would have been on the copy of the ticket if the guy had just signed it.

The victim of this assault had the ticket in his hand and was repeatedly asking the officer "how fast was I going". This tells me he disputes what was on the ticket A speeding ticket MUST have the clocked or approximated speed on it.

 

For court purposes, the guy wanted clarification as to the exact circumstance of his offense. Imagine if a cop ticketed you for running a stop sign and he refused to tell you which stop sign you failed to stop at.

 

Let me first say, in my opinion the officer was justified in using the tazer when he did, but this is a situation like the lethal force defense of property law in Texas.

According to the federal continuum of force manual concerning taser use, a suspect may only be tased if his poses a physical threat, is attempting to flee or is repeatedly refusing to comply with arrest procedures. I underlined the last part because it is applicable. Technically Massey did not comply immediately and he did walk away. However the officer is to blame for this because of his repeated procedural violations.

 

In the state of Utah, if someone refuses to sign a traffic citation, the officer MUST issue a second ticket for refusal to sign and WARN him that if he does not comply he is going to be arrested. This step was skipped.

 

What we have here is a law abiding family man that obviously didn't realize that his refusal to sign a ticket was an arrestable offense. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, however, a very simple remedy could have been applied.

 

Massey; "I'm not signing this"

Officer; "Sir, if you do not sign this I will issue you a second ticket for refusal to sign a traffic citation. If you do not then sign the tickets, I WILL place you under arrest.

 

This step was skipped.

 

The big issue, where this thing went from bad to worse, was when the officer reached for his taser, not his cuffs, when he was arresting him. The man offered no physical resistance. He posed no threat. He did not attempt to flee. He followed the officer compliantly. Stood there calmly, making no sudden movement, and has what he thought was a firearm (deadly weapon) drawn on him as the officer started shouting. The officer lied to his field supervisor in his embellished summary of the chain of events.

 

The man did take steps away from him and place his hand on his pocket. BIG MISTAKE. But, the officer frightened him with this sudden up turn of tempo.

 

I don't know if I would say he is lying through his teeth, but he definitely embellished his version.

In the court of law, this is the act of telling a lie. You think the court would allow you to "embellish" your story? Not likely.

 

Actually he had given a command to turn around and put his hands behind his back, which the guy refused. Now with that said, it seemed clear to me that the guy thought the officer had asked him out of the car to talk about the speed limit sign and the officer didn't explain that if he didn't sign the ticket he would be arrested.

Exactly. I honestly feel this man was clueless as to the severity of what was about to happen. This is a law abiding family man pulled over for ticket he didn't feel was just. Police should not as a robot would. The officer should have been able to articulate to this man the ramifications of a refusal to sign. I think it as obvious this man would have signed the ticket had he known the officer was going to arrest him at taser point, summarily electrocuting him.

 

I think Massey said it all when he offered to the angry cop "What the hell is wrong with you"?

 

Police are supposed to be a 'type-A' personality. That means they do not seek confrontation. They do not react with anger. And when angry they do not break things, threaten to hurt or actually hurt people.

 

This cop was pissed at the insolence of this family man pointing to a speed limit sign. That is not a reason to draw a potentially deadly weapon when he should have drawn a pair of handcuffs.

 

I agree that there was some embellishing afterward but I don't think it was to justify his reasoning.

Thats called "Making an excuse for potentially killing someone over a simple misunderstanding during a traffic citation". That man laid in the middle of a busy state highway, twitching uncontrollably. A car may have run him over and killed him.

 

The tasing is justifiable only if you account for the actions after the taser was pulled. The issue I have is why the f ck did he pull a potentially lethal weapon out instead of handcuffs when dealing with a confused, orderly and non-evasive man.

 

OK, so he pointed at a traffic sign instead of being a good little boy and succumbing to full submission. Get you handcuffs out and tell him again. Don't create a deadly stand-off.

 

I say deadly because this man may have been killed because of this. Either by heart attack or by being run over with a car.

 

The reporter said that technically you aren't required to sign a speeding ticket, but if you don't you will be arrested and given another ticket (this would be for refusal to sign). You have the option of refusing and going to jail instead along with another charge, not that you can't be arrested for this. When you sign a traffic ticket it is your guarantee that you will either pay the fine or appear in court. Every ticket I have ever been given has this printed at the bottom.

/It takes a few seconds to inform this man of this. Had he done this, the situation may never have ended in a dangerous application of a weapon.

 

Tasers are not handcuffs. They are not to be used in this way. They can be deadly.

 

Again I will reiterate that the events could have been handled differently, but the officer, had the authority to do what he did. He just should have communicated better.

NO! It SHOULD have been handled differently. I'm sick of police pawning off this excuse. A few words and a touch of understanding will prevent these sorts of things.

 

The taser has become a replacement for an officer using psychology and tact in diffusing or clarifying a situation. No more need for civil recourse. All they need to do now is push a button and electrocute a person, instead of talking to them. This cannot stand. Tasers can be deadly. Especially when they leave a man laying in the middle of a state highway, incapable of movement.

[hugo]

The victim of this assault had the ticket in his hand and was repeatedly asking the officer "how fast was I going". This tells me he disputes what was on the ticket A speeding ticket MUST have the clocked or approximated speed on it.

 

 

In that case, the smart thing to do is go to court and claim the ticket was improper. If the cop screws up on the ticket it makes it easier to get the case dismissed. Tasee boy was a dumbass.

[Jhony5]

In that case, the smart thing to do is go to court and claim the ticket was improper. If the cop screws up on the ticket it makes it easier to get the case dismissed. Tasee boy was a dumbass.

 

It is a violation of procedure to draw a taser on a complaint person when he has not yet; Refused to comply with arrest, resisted a control hold, attempted to evade or physically threatened the officer.

 

We can't have cops doing sh t like this. The real idiot is in danger of losing his job for lying to a superior and drawing a potentially deadly weapon on a complaint, calm person guilty of only a very minor non-felony offense.

 

Frankly, the cop deserved to be shot in the heart for threatening him with severe pain and/or death over a traffic ticket.

 

The cop lied.

 

He f cking lied.

 

What does that tell you?

 

The pig claims to his supervisor that he told the man to put his hands behind his back because he was under arrest. He says the man started "hoppin around" and THEN he pulled out the taser.

 

That a bold, redfaced f cking lie. Watch the video again, Hugo. He pulled a taser on a calm man that is being 100% compliant.

 

Don't tell me this is a good thing.

[hugo]

Don't tell me this is a good thing.

 

It ain't a good thing. However, I have never seen a case where a cop tased someone who did what he was told. Save your disagreemnt for court. Dumbasses tend to put themselves through unneeded pain.

[Jhony5]

I have never seen a case where a cop tased someone who did what he was told.

I understand and I agree. In this case this guy's big mistake was to walk toward his vehicle with his hand in his pocket. I have no idea why he would do that.

 

My issue is; Why did he pull his taser out before informing the "suspect" that he was being placed under arrest? He wasn't exhibiting any signs of physical resistance. He complied with the officer and "hopped" out of his vehicle, just like he was asked too. This guy was just not understanding that he was about to be arrested. Given the circumstance (wife baby, no criminal record) I'd say it was a safe bet if he had been told "I'm going to arrest you if you don't sign it", then he would have signed it.

 

A smart and tactful officer would have walked him back to the police car and calmly said "Look, I'm giving you one more chance. Sign the ticket or I am going to be forced to arrest you, period. It's the law. You have to agree to come to court or pay the fine. I'm sorry guy, but that's just how it works. One more time, sign the ticket or I'm arresting you".

 

You see? Thats not all that hard.

 

Now if Massey had kept bitching about the circumstance of the ticket and further refusing to sign, now that he knows it is an arrestable offense, fine arrest him. If he pulls away or refuses to "assume the position", then pull the taser.

 

I can't help but to see egregious missteps by the officer.

 

Let it be known I am not one of these liberal as holes that sees police misconduct in every application of force. I am usually the first guy to say "F ck 'em. He didn't listen to the cops. He got what he was asking for".

 

In this case I am at a loss to explain or defend the officer for his actions.

[hugo]

I estimate 10% of cops are egomaniacs who took the job so they can throw their weight around. This cop is probably one of them.

[Jhony5]

I estimate 10% of cops are egomaniacs who took the job so they can throw their weight around. This cop is probably one of them.

 

I say this is a fair assessment.

 

All this being said, putting your hand in your pocket while a cop is pointing anything at you is dumb as dumb is dumb, DUMB!

[ImWithStupid]

I understand and I agree. In this case this guy's big mistake was to walk toward his vehicle with his hand in his pocket. I have no idea why he would do that.

 

Also, not putting his hands behind his back when told to.

 

My issue is; Why did he pull his taser out before informing the "suspect" that he was being placed under arrest? He wasn't exhibiting any signs of physical resistance. He complied with the officer and "hopped" out of his vehicle, just like he was asked too. This guy was just not understanding that he was about to be arrested. Given the circumstance (wife baby, no criminal record) I'd say it was a safe bet if he had been told "I'm going to arrest you if you don't sign it", then he would have signed it.

 

He told him to turn around and put his hands behind his back. A reasonable person would know this meant that they were under arrest. As for being told he would be arrested if not signing the ticket he would be under arrest, I agree, the outcome probably would have been different. The officer needs to work on his communication, but wasn't in violation of anything.

 

A smart and tactful officer would have walked him back to the police car and calmly said "Look, I'm giving you one more chance. Sign the ticket or I am going to be forced to arrest you, period. It's the law. You have to agree to come to court or pay the fine. I'm sorry guy, but that's just how it works. One more time, sign the ticket or I'm arresting you".

 

I agree.

 

Now if Massey had kept bitching about the circumstance of the ticket and further refusing to sign, now that he knows it is an arrestable offense, fine arrest him. If he pulls away or refuses to "assume the position", then pull the taser.

 

A taser is on the same level of force continuum as pepper spray, and passive non-compliance can be confronted with this level of resistance.

[snafu]

In the old days he would'a got a boot in the ass!

 

I watch cops all the time and it never ceases to amaze me. The cops says "put your hands behind your back". And the hoodlums starts getting offensive and uncooperative. You do what your told. For your safety as well as theirs. If I was a cop I'd take the easy way out too.

[ImWithStupid]

It ain't a good thing. However, I have never seen a case where a cop tased someone who did what he was told. Save your disagreemnt for court. Dumbasses tend to put themselves through unneeded pain.

 

There is approximately 45 million face to face contacts with police officers per year, with only approximately 2,500 of complaints of excessive force. That is around 5.7% negative reaction. If there are repeat occurrences by bad officers that's probably more like 4% to 4.5% negative action. Out of about 836,000 officers, that's not bad.

[Jhony5]

Police should not show force with such a dangerous weapon before giving clear instruction that a non-felonious suspect is being placed into custody.

 

He told him to exit the vehicle. Massey complied. Massey walks with the officer compliantly and starts gesturing. The officer pulls his taser and starts shouting wildly. This is overkill for a traffic offense.

 

A taser is on the same level of force continuum as pepper spray, and passive non-compliance can be confronted with this level of resistance.

Problem with that is, mace doesn't kill people. Tasers do. Mace doesn't make people fall backward and crack their skulls open on the hard cement, tasers do.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am the not one of these bleeding heart jackasses that feels pity for criminals whom get themselves jacked up by way of defying police.

 

I am concerned with this officers lack of self control. Moreover, I find his "embellishment" of the event to his superior as a red flag. A show that he knows he jumped the gun, so to speak.

 

He told him to turn around and put his hands behind his back.

.......as he showed potentially deadly force and created a furious tempo change. This is not smart. This gets people killed, even cops. Normal protocol in this case is to reach for your cuffs, not your taser. This man offered no resistance to arrest, as there was no arrest underway to his knowledge until he was being threatened.

 

Again, Massey got what he deserved by foolishly walking toward his vehicle. I was with him until that moment. Point being, this most likely would not have happened if he had just warned this man of arrest prior to threatening his well-being with a weapon.

 

 

The officer needs to work on his communication, but wasn't in violation of anything.

His "Lack of communication" could have led to the death of a law abiding smart mouth family man.

 

I watch cops all the time and it never ceases to amaze me. The cops says "put your hands behind your back". And the hoodlums starts getting offensive and uncooperative. You do what your told. For your safety as well as theirs. If I was a cop I'd take the easy way out too.

I don't know about you Snaffy, but I am not comfortable with police feeling free to point a weapon at me when all I've done is smart off a few times and refuse to write my name on a piece of paper.

 

Massey isn't a "hoodlum" and he was no threat. No threat means no need for potentially deadly force being threatened.

[eddo]

Tasers can be deadly. Especially when they leave a man laying in the middle of a state highway, incapable of movement.

 

Yeah, that part bothered me too.

[ImWithStupid]

Police should not show force with such a dangerous weapon before giving clear instruction that a non-felonious suspect is being placed into custody.

 

He told him to exit the vehicle. Massey complied. Massey walks with the officer compliantly and starts gesturing. The officer pulls his taser and starts shouting wildly. This is overkill for a traffic offense.

 

 

Problem with that is, mace doesn't kill people. Tasers do. Mace doesn't make people fall backward and crack their skulls open on the hard cement, tasers do.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am the not one of these bleeding heart jackasses that feels pity for criminals whom get themselves jacked up by way of defying police.

 

I am concerned with this officers lack of self control. Moreover, I find his "embellishment" of the event to his superior as a red flag. A show that he knows he jumped the gun, so to speak.

 

.......as he showed potentially deadly force and created a furious tempo change. This is not smart. This gets people killed, even cops. Normal protocol in this case is to reach for your cuffs, not your taser. This man offered no resistance to arrest, as there was no arrest underway to his knowledge until he was being threatened.

 

Again, Massey got what he deserved by foolishly walking toward his vehicle. I was with him until that moment. Point being, this most likely would not have happened if he had just warned this man of arrest prior to threatening his well-being with a weapon.

 

 

His "Lack of communication" could have led to the death of a law abiding smart mouth family man.

 

I don't know about you Snaffy, but I am not comfortable with police feeling free to point a weapon at me when all I've done is smart off a few times and refuse to write my name on a piece of paper.

 

Massey isn't a "hoodlum" and he was no threat. No threat means no need for potentially deadly force being threatened.

 

Case in point, I think we are generally on the same page just about a millimeter apart. The officer was legally able to do what he did, but he should have chosen a better path then what he took to handle the situation. That said, Massey could have also handled the situation differently, but the officer should have communicated better.

 

If not I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[ImWithStupid]

Yeah, that part bothered me too.

 

There have been rare cases where people have died from mace/pepper spray being deployed also.

 

Other than traffic hitting them, it is very rare that a taser causes death, the line of path of the electricity won't even effect a pacemaker.

[Jhony5]

Lessons learned

 

If a cop points a taser at you, don't put your hand in your pocket and walk away.

 

If a cop gives you a bullsh t ticket. Sign it and THEN tell him to go f ck himself.

 

If you are a cop and you want to arrest a man for being a smarta s, Don't pull your taser and freak out on him. Just get your cuffs and arrest him. Otherwise, you might end up on youtube.

 

Also; Tasers f cking hurt.

[ImWithStupid]

Lessons learned

 

If a cop points a taser at you, don't put your hand in your pocket and walk away.

 

If a cop gives you a bullsh t ticket. Sign it and THEN tell him to go f ck himself.

 

If you are a cop and you want to arrest a man for being a smarta s, Don't pull your taser and freak out on him. Just get your cuffs and arrest him. Otherwise, you might end up on youtube.

 

Also; Tasers f cking hurt.

 

I guess I agree with most of this.

[hugo]

There is approximately 45 million face to face contacts with police officers per year, with only approximately 2,500 of complaints of excessive force. That is around 5.7% negative reaction. If there are repeat occurrences by bad officers that's probably more like 4% to 4.5% negative action. Out of about 836,000 officers, that's not bad.

 

Your math skills are not real good.