ImWithStupid Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Murder = The intentional, illegal, brutal killing or destruction of one human being by another. By your own definition, Wez isn't a murderer. Abortion is legal As for it be killing, you would have to first define life in a legal sense. With Roe v. Wade being the closest thing to establishing if a fetus is a life, until it is overturned, a fetus must not be a life or it would be illegal to abort it, in effect, ceasing any chance of it becoming a viable person.
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 By your own definition, Wez isn't a murderer. Abortion is legal As for it be killing, you would have to first define life in a legal sense. With Roe v. Wade being the closest thing to establishing if a fetus is a life, until it is overturned, a fetus must not be a life or it would be illegal to abort it, in effect, ceasing any chance of it becoming a viable person. I'm much closer to a murderer by my own definition..
snafu Posted January 8, 2008 Author Posted January 8, 2008 And I thought we aren't being judgmental. "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
Jhony5 Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 We are sifted into a lot that upholds aborted fetuses as an inconvenient, lecherous growth upon our bodies. A manifestation of our own irresponsibility is a life that we disregard as a mere parasite. Our progression as a society has it's own built in trap door. Awaiting our downfall is our ability to construct new devices of moral ambiguity. Common sense is fast replaced by convenience and expository mouthing of newly formed paraphrases. "When is a life really a life". Now we have aligned ourselves with Satan in an attempt to dethrone the mythological Christism. Two wrongs make not a right, yet we understand murder as having an age limit. Creation is only realized by way of documentation. No birth papers equal to no life formation. Sick. We are sick as a society. The new millennium is adorned with the ominous foresight of the end time of the homosapien. Our intelligent design was flawed by the very presence of scientific discovery. Nuclear power by way of science; Fanaticism by way of mythology. The two worlds of homosapien collide with a rhythmic horror; The real and the unreal. Mythology mixes with reality, and we have Armageddon. So go ahead, kill your baby. You have no one to answer to. Science has provided you a convenient excuse to buck morality and swear upon nothing as sacred. i am sofa king we todd did.
Guest sheik-yerbouti Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Abortion is legal. Legality is no indicator of what is right and proper. It was legal and a requirement once that jews be betrayed and handed over by the citizens to be murdered by the nazi state. In Communist Russia it was legal that thousands be sent to a cerain death in Siberian goulags. So much for legality. I could go on and on with immoral meaningless laws which would be properly at home in a cess-pit As for it be killing, you would have to first define life in a legal sense. . No. It is not necessary to define life at all. What is necessary is to recognise that babies too have rights too. a fetus must not be a life or it would be illegal to abort it, This is the most arse- about- face piece of gibberish I have ever read. What you are arguing here, is that you must be right, otherwise you will be wrong ! And you cannot be wrong, the consequences are too fearful to consider, for you would then be little better than any other promoter of murder, so you'll just continue doing the ostrich stunt with your head in the sand.
timesjoke Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 So go ahead, kill your baby. You have no one to answer to. Science has provided you a convenient excuse to buck morality and swear upon nothing as sacred. Here is one area we can both agree on. Society has trended the move away from religious based morals so they can do as they desire without feeling like they have done wrong. Under religious based morals, they could not behave this way, only without religion can the masses make the unthinkable become reasonable. The the creation of life is a step by step process that begins with conception. If you stop the process at any point, you have stopped life, trying to say killing a fetus is not killing a life is like saying your not gay if your not the one bent over. I keep mentioning the late term abortions as well because everyone seems to be avoiding that fact as well. Currently in America, it is legal to abort a child up to the day of birth. We are not talking just a clump of cells, we are killing life at all stages and it is just sick.
Guest sheik-yerbouti Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Society has trended the move away from religious based morals so they can do as they desire without feeling like they have done wrong. Under religious based morals, they could not behave this way, only without religion can the masses make the unthinkable become reasonable.. It is not just the religious who are appalled at child murder, many atheists are too TJ. I am. Currently in America, it is legal to abort a child up to the day of birth. We are not talking just a clump of cells, we are killing life at all stages and it is just sick. Absolutely sickening, just as heinous as any of "Dr" Mengeles experiments. What on earth do these "doctors" do with a (-1 day old crying child )? Sling the kid in the incinerator I suppose. Evil bastards.
timesjoke Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 It is not just the religious who are appalled at child murder, many atheists are too TJ. I am. Morals without religion are like a buffet table, each person on an individual basis passing buy taking the bits they like and leaving what they don't like, or is inconvenient, on the table. There are no universal "Right" and "Wrong" morals with those that do not know God. It is the removal of God from our lives that makes it possible to have flexable morals. The flexable morals allow some people to justify things like abortion but still see themselves as "good" from their point of view. Absolutely sickening, just as heinous as any of "Dr" Mengeles experiments. What on earth do these "doctors" do with a (-1 day old crying child )? Sling the kid in the incinerator I suppose. Evil bastards. Not much different than sucking a smaller version into a vaccume hose. Killing is killing to them, they tell themselves that it is not life, they tell themselves that it is like cutting away a cancer so they can stand to look at themselves in the mirror, but at the end of the day, it is still murder, and I have no idea how they can do such a thing.
ImWithStupid Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Legality is no indicator of what is right and proper. It was legal and a requirement once that jews be betrayed and handed over by the citizens to be murdered by the nazi state. In Communist Russia it was legal that thousands be sent to a cerain death in Siberian goulags. So much for legality. I could go on and on with immoral meaningless laws which would be properly at home in a cess-pit No. It is not necessary to define life at all. What is necessary is to recognise that babies too have rights too. This is the most arse- about- face piece of gibberish I have ever read. What you are arguing here, is that you must be right, otherwise you will be wrong ! And you cannot be wrong, the consequences are too fearful to consider, for you would then be little better than any other promoter of murder, so you'll just continue doing the ostrich stunt with your head in the sand. What are you talking about? I am personally against abortion, but until the US Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, Wez, or anyone else who is involved with abortion are not murderers. I'm only referring to murder as a legal term. If abortion were murder in the US it would be illegal. I'm not commenting on right or wrong. I'm commenting on legal and illegal.
timesjoke Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 What are you talking about? I am personally against abortion, but until the US Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, Wez, or anyone else who is involved with abortion are not murderers. I'm only referring to murder as a legal term. If abortion were murder in the US it would be illegal. I'm not commenting on right or wrong. I'm commenting on legal and illegal. The point he is making is just because it is legal, that does not change the moral stand of the act. If your only reason to support abortion (and those who commit it) is because of what some old guys say in the supreme court, then your missing a lot. We started this conversation about a guy who slipped a drug into a drink to make a woman have an abortion. We all agree that what he did was wrong, but we are discussing why it is murder only if a man does it, but not murder if the worman kills a child. The unborn baby is a life under the law, only if a man kills it, or attempts to kill it, but if the woman wants to kill it, suddenly the law says the life is not a life and can be killed without penalty. Don't you see how illogical that is? The law should be blind to gender and only consider if an unborn baby is alive and worth protection under the law, or not alive and not entitled to protection under the law.
ImWithStupid Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Currently in America, it is legal to abort a child up to the day of birth. We are not talking just a clump of cells, we are killing life at all stages and it is just sick. Didn't they ban partial birth abortions?
ImWithStupid Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 The point he is making is just because it is legal, that does not change the moral stand of the act. If your only reason to support abortion (and those who commit it) is because of what some old guys say in the supreme court, then your missing a lot. We started this conversation about a guy who slipped a drug into a drink to make a woman have an abortion. We all agree that what he did was wrong, but we are discussing why it is murder only if a man does it, but not murder if the worman kills a child. The unborn baby is a life under the law, only if a man kills it, or attempts to kill it, but if the woman wants to kill it, suddenly the law says the life is not a life and can be killed without penalty. Don't you see how illogical that is? The law should be blind to gender and only consider if an unborn baby is alive and worth protection under the law, or not alive and not entitled to protection under the law. If you look back at my posts on this thread, what you said has been my stance from the beginning. I do see the double standard and have said that. My point was that, Wez or anyone else is not able to be legally considered a murderer, for participation in an abortion until Roe v. Wade is overturned. You both are arguing with someone who agrees with you on the moral standpoint. I was speaking strictly from a legal standpoint.
snafu Posted January 8, 2008 Author Posted January 8, 2008 Didn't they ban partial birth abortions? You know I wasn't sure so I checked. Thank God they did keep the ban. LA Times report on the Supreme Court Ruling upholding the PBA Ban Act. I saw something on I think was the history channel on partial birth abortions. The doctor turns the baby around to be a breach position(feet first). The whole child is delivered except the head. They take a pair of scissors and poke a hole in the back of the neck. He widens the hole then sucks the brains out of the child with a vacuum. I can?t imagine someone calling themselves a doctor that can do this procedure. "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 So, a fertilized egg = life? Why stop there. If those two parts make a life, then those two parts must be life themselves as we know that life only comes from life. Sperm = life. You're a murderer everytime you masturbate ...
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 You know I wasn't sure so I checked. Thank God they did keep the ban. LA Times report on the Supreme Court Ruling upholding the PBA Ban Act. I saw something on I think was the history channel on partial birth abortions. The doctor turns the baby around to be a breach position(feet first). The whole child is delivered except the head. They take a pair of scissors and poke a hole in the back of the neck. He widens the hole then sucks the brains out of the child with a vacuum. I can?t imagine someone calling themselves a doctor that can do this procedure. Yeah, TJ is full of sh t, abortions cannot be done on the day of birth..
RegisteredAndEducated Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 The fact that abortion is legal shows how effed up this country is. Maybe you're not a murderer legally wez, but you most certainly are a murderer morally. PBA's are still illegal. They can take a baby before it's partially born though. (From what I understand) Same thing basically, they just don't use scissors. Intelligent people think... how ignorance must be bliss.... idiots have it so easy, it's not fair... to have to think... WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO BE AMONG THOSE FORTUNATE MASSES..... Hey, "Non-believers" I've just got one thing to say to ya... If you're right, then what difference does it make, it wont matter when we're dead anyway... But if I'm right... Well, hey... Ya better be right...
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Morals without religion are like a buffet table, each person on an individual basis passing buy taking the bits they like and leaving what they don't like, or is inconvenient, on the table. There are no universal "Right" and "Wrong" morals with those that do not know God. It is the removal of God from our lives that makes it possible to have flexable morals. The flexable morals allow some people to justify things like abortion but still see themselves as "good" from their point of view. God is pro war, anti abortion? Tell us about the Godly manner in which you murdered that man and sent 4 people to the hospital...
RegisteredAndEducated Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 it's good to see you know so much about everybody wez. If only you payed more attention to yourself. Intelligent people think... how ignorance must be bliss.... idiots have it so easy, it's not fair... to have to think... WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO BE AMONG THOSE FORTUNATE MASSES..... Hey, "Non-believers" I've just got one thing to say to ya... If you're right, then what difference does it make, it wont matter when we're dead anyway... But if I'm right... Well, hey... Ya better be right...
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Maybe you're not a murderer legally wez, but you most certainly are a murderer morally. Perhaps I am... Maybe that's why I don't condemn and hate, but forgive murderers. So that I also may be forgiven..
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 it's good to see you know so much about everybody wez. If only you payed more attention to yourself. Ummmm.. I've been the topic of everyones discussion since yesterday, moron. Perhaps you need a glance in the mirror again..
timesjoke Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Yeah, TJ is full of sh t, abortions cannot be done on the day of birth.. Most, but not all "partial birth abortions" were banned by that supreme court decision, they are still performed in certain cases, and again, all that decision is based on is "one" form of abortion. Partial birth abortion was very popular because late term abortions can cause damage to the uterus, late term abortions using other methods are still very legal in America. Please try to educate yourself if your going to try and call me out on my facts. God is pro war, anti abortion? Tell us about the Godly manner in which you murdered that man and sent 4 people to the hospital... I was attcked and defended myself, are you now trying to clim the baby you killed attacked you first? Stop trying to look for a way out of the mess you admitted to Wez, your a murderer, maybe not by American law standards, but in reality, you killed an innocent life for selfish reasons. There is no comparison you can ever make with anyone else to equal something so horrible. This was your child, you killed something that was made from a part of you. If you are capable of killing your own child, your capable of any horrible act under the sun.
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Maybe you're not a murderer legally wez, but you most certainly are a murderer morally. Does that hold true for soldiers as well? I'll promise to never agree to an abortion again if soldiers promise to never murder again.. Hows that?
eddo Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Tell us about the Godly manner in which you murdered that man and sent 4 people to the hospital... I don't condemn and hate, but forgive murderers. So you continually bringing up something from TJ's past is you forgiving him? or is it you condemning him? I see it more as the latter. Wez I don't judge you for your and Sasha's decision. It was an informed decision that you made as adults, and while I disagree with it, I don't condemn you for it. I do, however, condemn our society for placing such little worth on a little life, and for cheapening the act of sex to little more than self-gratification. Hell, it would be hard for me to think less of you anyway... I'm trusted by more women.
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 I was attcked and defended myself, are you now trying to clim the baby you killed attacked you first? Stop trying to look for a way out of the mess you admitted to Wez, your a murderer, maybe not by American law standards, but in reality, you killed an innocent life for selfish reasons. There is no comparison you can ever make with anyone else to equal something so horrible. This was your child, you killed something that was made from a part of you. If you are capable of killing your own child, your capable of any horrible act under the sun. Then why'd you go to prison?
wez Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 So you continually bringing up something from TJ's past is you forgiving him? or is it you condemning him? I see it more as the latter. Wez I don't judge you for your and Sasha's decision. It was an informed decision that you made as adults, and while I disagree with it, I don't condemn you for it. I do, however, condemn our society for placing such little worth on a little life, and for cheapening the act of sex to little more than self-gratification. Hell, it would be hard for me to think less of you anyway... He's condemning me to try to make himself feel better.. That's what I'm trying to show him.. I don't condemn him for murdering a man and sending 4 people to the hospital, it's the opposite. And I haven't "continually" brought sh t up.. I asked him once, he ignored. I didn't say another word till he started up the condemnation..
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