Abortion Smoothie

[wez]

Honestly, I'm not pro - abortion either. It wasn't a pleasant, or easy decision, but a decision I felt was the proper and responsible one to make. I'm not proud nor happy about the decision we made and I'm mostly not proud of the fact that I stayed in a sick relationship for so many years. I do know I wouldn't ever agree to do it again, but I would never try to guilt or shame a woman into doing anything other than what she wanted to do, even if I was the father. I know where my say and influence over the matter should stop. But as far as banning abortion, no way. I'm a man, it's not my place to claim domain over a womans body or reproductive system.

[snafu]

Honestly, I'm not pro - abortion either. It wasn't a pleasant, or easy decision, but a decision I felt was the proper and responsible one to make. I'm not proud nor happy about the decision we made and I'm mostly not proud of the fact that I stayed in a sick relationship for so many years. I do know I wouldn't ever agree to do it again, but I would never try to guilt or shame a woman into doing anything other than what she wanted to do, even if I was the father. I know where my say and influence over the matter should stop. But as far as banning abortion, no way. I'm a man, it's not my place to claim domain over a womans body or reproductive system.

 

And I've made bad choices in my life too. So I don't blame you. I'd like to know if anybody here hasn't ed up at one point or another.

[wez]

And I've made bad choices in my life too. So I don't blame you. I'd like to know if anybody here hasn't ed up at one point or another.

 

I know you don't snaf.. you're a good man. You don't need to try to knock people down so you can stand up. Not a finer quality can an individual have IMO..

[Anna Perenna]

The main issue here is why is it murder when the man decides to abort the baby against the wishes or knowledge of the woman, but perfectly legal for the woman to abort the same baby against the wishes or knowledge of the man? It's clearly a gender biased criminal charge.

 

I don't think it's clearly a gender-biased thing at all.

 

I think the horror of this case is that he deliberately and surreptitiously slipped her a drug that killed their baby, not once, but twice.

 

I'm sure you'd agree that men who slip women drugs in clubs in order to take them home and rape them are criminals.

 

His behaviour is criminal.

 

That doesn't mean I don't see the double standard in women being able to get abortions without telling their partner (I actually agree that the father should be consulted in every abortion case).

 

It will be great if he's put on trial and charged, and his case brings to light all the holes and inconsistencies in abortion legislation.

[Anna Perenna]

I'm a man, it's not my place to claim domain over a womans body or reproductive system.

 

And a rather evolved man at that. Cheers for understanding how I feel about it.

[Anna Perenna]

I like this stance except in America a teenager or any women can go and get an abortion without her parents or partners acknowledgment or consent. So the man gets no say so.

 

And I agree that that's unfair. I hope it changes.

 

And I don't agree that the women should get the last say because it's the babies body not hers.

 

I totally respect your opinion (and I am not just saying that) but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

[Jhony5]

And a rather evolved man at that. Cheers for understanding how I feel about it.

 

Ya see........this is exactly why women aren't allowed to vote in America. Too much attitude.

[Anna Perenna]

Ya see........this is exactly why women aren't allowed to vote in America. Too much attitude.

 

Pantera Fan

[snafu]

And I agree that that's unfair. I hope it changes.

 

 

 

I totally respect your opinion (and I am not just saying that) but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

Yes I think so.

 

 

Ya see........this is exactly why women aren't allowed to vote in America. Too much attitude.

LMAO.. There's one in every crowd.

[timesjoke]

I don't think it's clearly a gender-biased thing at all.

 

So why is it only murder if the man kills a baby?

 

Seriously, I can 100% support charges be made against the man in this case for assault and battery, maybe a few other charges, a person should never sneek any substance into a drink without informing the person drinking it.

 

The collection of cells in the mother's womb is either life or not. If it is murder to kill that collection of cells when a man does it, then it sould be murder to kill the same collection of cells when the woman does it.

 

This has been the entire point for this thread, why is it only murder in the eyes of the law if the man kills the child?

 

 

I think the horror of this case is that he deliberately and surreptitiously slipped her a drug that killed their baby, not once, but twice.

 

No, the horror is the 1.2 million "legal" killings of children by women, many late term children that could survive outside the womb.

 

There is a good question for you, it seems the pro-choice crowd only want to talk about things like rape and first term abortions but there are hundreds of thousands of second and third terms aborted every year as well, do you believe a third term child is not life as well?

 

 

I'm sure you'd agree that men who slip women drugs in clubs in order to take them home and rape them are criminals.

 

Anyone worth a damn would agree this is wrong, as I said above, he should be given very strict penalties for slipping a drug into the drink, the point in question is why the clump of cells is only life if the man kills it.

 

 

His behaviour is criminal.

 

Of course, just not murder or attempted murder if we are going to be fair.

 

 

That doesn't mean I don't see the double standard in women being able to get abortions without telling their partner (I actually agree that the father should be consulted in every abortion case).

 

But you also agree that the man does not have any "right" in that decision, you clearly say that if the man wants the child, and the woman does not, she should be allowed to kill the child.

 

As already pointed out, it is the baby's body, not yours.

 

 

It will be great if he's put on trial and charged, and his case brings to light all the holes and inconsistencies in abortion legislation.

 

I don't wish that kind of thing on anyone. He should not be raked accross the coals as some kind of poster child for the inequalities of the legal system in favor of women.

 

Fair is fair, it is either life to be protected by the law, from both women and men, or it is not. How can a legal system be balanced if the child is only a child if a man kills it?

 

 

 

 

By the way, I would truly like you to respond to my point you dodged about how the woman does have a choice, the choice to have risky sex. Why is it you women want to hold a man responsible without a way to dodge that responsibility if he makes a child out of a mistake, but you feel it is completely reasonable for the woman to have a way to dodge her responsibility for the same action?

 

 

 

Wez, I only pressured you on your killing of your child because of the high and mighty attitude you display here attacking everyone else for stuff when you have done something ten times worse. I was making a point, and made it well because the second you were pressured by that fact, you defined yourself.

 

Instead of claiminf full responsibility and admitting you were wrong for killing a life, you started lies and counter attacks to avoid that responsibility. Then you started trying to downgrade the situation, calling that life less than life to reduce the impact of what you did.

 

If you simply admitted you were wrong and stopped your hatred filled attacks on others, I would agree that you deserve forgiveness but forgiveness cannot be offered to someone who refuses to completely admit their wrong.

 

You say you believe in the teachings of Jesus, well, in this situation what would Jesus do, would he duck and dodge his responsibility like you have been doing or would he completely admit his crime and face it like a man?

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

it's not my place to claim domain over a womans body or reproductive system.

 

But it is the place of a woman to claim dominion over the body of someone else, if that someone else is a child unfortunate enough to be growing inside her ????????????? And its OK for her to kill baby if she feels like it??????????????????

[wez]

But it is the place of a woman to claim dominion over the body of someone else, if that someone else is a child unfortunate enough to be growing inside her ????????????? And its OK for her to kill baby if she feels like it??????????????????

 

Yes, It's ok for a woman to claim domain over her own body and that which is contained inside it.

[wez]

Wez, I only pressured you on your killing of your child because of the high and mighty attitude you display here attacking everyone else for stuff when you have done something ten times worse. I was making a point, and made it well because the second you were pressured by that fact, you defined yourself.

 

TJ, I only pressured you on your killing of a man and hospitalization of 4 because of the high and mighty attitude you display here attacking everyone else for stuff when you have done something ten times worse. I was making a point, and made it well because the second you were pressured by that fact, you defined yourself

 

Instead of claiminf full responsibility and admitting you were wrong for killing a life, you started lies and counter attacks to avoid that responsibility. Then you started trying to downgrade the situation, calling that life less than life to reduce the impact of what you did.

 

If you simply admitted you were wrong and stopped your hatred filled attacks on others, I would agree that you deserve forgiveness but forgiveness cannot be offered to someone who refuses to completely admit their wrong.

 

You say you believe in the teachings of Jesus, well, in this situation what would Jesus do, would he duck and dodge his responsibility like you have been doing or would he completely admit his crime and face it like a man?

 

 

Look in the mirror bud, you're talking to yourself..

[eddo]

Yes, It's ok for a woman to claim domain over her own body and that which is contained inside it.

 

What if she swallows your credit card?

 

Instead of claiminf full responsibility and admitting you were wrong for killing a life, you started lies and counter attacks to avoid that responsibility. Then you started trying to downgrade the situation, calling that life less than life to reduce the impact of what you did.

If you simply admitted you were wrong and stopped your hatred filled attacks on others, I would agree that you deserve forgiveness but forgiveness cannot be offered to someone who refuses to completely admit their wrong.

You say you believe in the teachings of Jesus, well, in this situation what would Jesus do, would he duck and dodge his responsibility like you have been doing or would he completely admit his crime and face it like a man?

Look in the mirror bud, you're talking to yourself..

 

umm, actually, he didn't do any of that.

 

He faced his responsibility in the hearing, and was found to be not liable. I have yet to see him discredit anyone's life, nor have I seen him duck the responsibility of his actions.

 

That was a weak attempt...

[snafu]

What if she swallows your credit card?...

 

 

That next dump is mine!

[wez]

What if she swallows your credit card?

 

She would be called a dumbass.

 

 

 

umm, actually, he didn't do any of that.

 

He faced his responsibility in the hearing, and was found to be not liable. I have yet to see him discredit anyone's life, nor have I seen him duck the responsibility of his actions.

 

That was a weak attempt...

 

Perhaps you should just ask TJ out on a date and get it over with..

[snafu]

TJ..

Instead of claiminf full responsibility and admitting you were wrong for killing a life....

 

I'm sorry but he wasn't wrong for his killing. Self Preservation trumps murder.

[eddo]

Perhaps you should just ask TJ out on a date and get it over with..

 

nah, I'll just play coy and hope he shows up to lab one day completely naked and throws himself on me...

[RegisteredAndEducated]

 

Wez, I only pressured you on your killing of your child because of the high and mighty attitude you display here attacking everyone else for stuff when you have done something ten times worse. I was making a point, and made it well because the second you were pressured by that fact, you defined yourself.

 

Instead of claiminf full responsibility and admitting you were wrong for killing a life, you started lies and counter attacks to avoid that responsibility. Then you started trying to downgrade the situation, calling that life less than life to reduce the impact of what you did.

 

If you simply admitted you were wrong and stopped your hatred filled attacks on others, I would agree that you deserve forgiveness but forgiveness cannot be offered to someone who refuses to completely admit their wrong.

 

You say you believe in the teachings of Jesus, well, in this situation what would Jesus do, would he duck and dodge his responsibility like you have been doing or would he completely admit his crime and face it like a man?

 

Ditto.

 

I know it seemed childish, like name calling, and maybe it was. But if it was, it was in response to being approached that way by wez. I apologize for stooping to a level below myself, but I still don't condone the actions. If you've read my replies, I have called my own mother a murderer here. I'm not playing favorites.

 

 

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[wez]

I'm sorry but he wasn't wrong for his killing. Self Preservation trumps murder.

 

 

I was more talking about his acceptance of war killings and the like.. downplaying the life of his "enemy"..

[wez]

Ditto.

 

I know it seemed childish, like name calling, and maybe it was. But if it was, it was in response to being approached that way by wez. I apologize for stooping to a level below myself, but I still don't condone the actions. If you've read my replies, I have called my own mother a murderer here. I'm not playing favorites.

 

 

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No offense taken bud.. you say whatever you want to say whenever you want to say it.. But don't call Snaf's wife a murderer..

 

Really, I can understand peoples view on it.. especially when you look at your own children.. beautiful things they are..

[RegisteredAndEducated]

let me go a couple of pages back and get your post.. then i'll make answer with my version of the moral difference between killing and murder.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

No offense taken bud.. you say whatever you want to say whenever you want to say it.. But don't call Snaf's wife a murderer..

 

Really, I can understand peoples view on it.. especially when you look at your own children.. beautiful things they are..

 

Hey... If the shoe fits. I'm not attacking his wife, but you bring up an excellent point. I did, by proxy, call his wife a murder, and if I can say that I honestly believe my own mother is a murder, I'll not hold back on anyone in the world. Sorry snaf... that's just how it be's.

[wez]

Hey... If the shoe fits. I'm not attacking his wife, but you bring up an excellent point. I did, by proxy, call his wife a murder, and if I can say that I honestly believe my own mother is a murder, I'll not hold back on anyone in the world. Sorry snaf... that's just how it be's.

 

Right or wrong, it's a good way to be broman.. you speak your mind no matter who's listening, or looking, as may be the case.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

What is the difference?

 

Moral difference between murder and killing.

 

Murder, completely amoral. Premeditated, hate/rage induced, needless, ending/destroying of life. (i.e. Abortion, gang violence, drug violence, murders by criminals)

 

Killing, the polar opposite of murder. Done out of necessity or for the protection of something greater than oneself. (i.e. Casualties of war, self defense, protection of our laws and beliefs and the American way of life)