Abortion Smoothie

[Guest webDressing]

how can I take you seriously, when you start out lying?

Hello BrotherMan First of all no one is asking you to do anything. Secondly it's customary when throwing around accusations such as you are, to be specific about them. Thank you.

 

Let's step back and look at the subject like an intelligent person.

Yes, let's shall we? Your sig says "The key to wisdom is this -- constant and frequent questioning..." Lets put your beliefs to the test see just how much you really believe in that statement. Hey, you brought it up

 

 

More opinion.

Yes, formulated from many years of observation on emotionally charged topics such as this. Let's see how this thread plays out when someone basing their so-called reasoning on 'emotion' - acts when they are forced to face the facts...

 

 

Hands and legs don't have, nor do they have the ability to think or have their own heartbeat. There are a couple of facts for ya. The same goes for skin, teeth, or nails.

So you are publically stating here that something like skin, teeth, or nails cannot be considered as a human being or person, is that correct? Just trying to clarify

 

I must be missing something?

Yes, no need to state the obvious

[snafu]

.. I view it as nothing but a tumor/parasite until it is able sustain itself outside the womb.

 

That is my opinion, if it isn't yours, great. I have no intention of changing your belief.

 

With all that said. I still personally don't believe that abortion should be legal. For any reason.

 

But its a parisite that has the potential to survive and grow as you and I were lucky enough to get the chance to do. You know win the human lottery.

[ImWithStupid]

But its a parisite that has the potential to survive and grow as you and I were lucky enough to get the chance to do. You know win the human lottery.

 

I know. That's why I think abortion should be illegal. In fact the only reason.

 

That's where we again come back to the whole, it should be illegal no matter what, idea. No matter if it's rape, incest, defective, etc...

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Hello BrotherMan First of all no one is asking you to do anything. Secondly it's customary when throwing around accusations such as you are, to be specific about them. Thank you.

 

 

Yes, let's shall we? Your sig says "The key to wisdom is this -- constant and frequent questioning..." Lets put your beliefs to the test see just how much you really believe in that statement. Hey, you brought it up

 

 

 

Yes, formulated from many years of observation on emotionally charged topics such as this. Let's see how this thread plays out when someone basing their so-called reasoning on 'emotion' - acts when they are forced to face the facts...

 

 

 

So you are publically stating here that something like skin, teeth, or nails cannot be considered as a human being or person, is that correct? Just trying to clarify

 

 

Yes, no need to state the obvious

 

all gibberish... trying making some sense, and I'll try to respond to it.

[Guest webDressing]

Abortion kills!

Lots of things kill, it doesn't automatically make them bad. By your 'reasoning' we should all still be driving horse-and-buggies So I take it that you believe that terrorist should be left alone and not killed, or are they not human too?

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Lots of things kill, it doesn't automatically make them bad. By your 'reasoning' we should all still be driving horse-and-buggies So I take it that you believe that terrorist should be left alone and not killed, or are they not human too?

 

NO, they're not. They become subhuman when they decide to be terrorists. Let's not change the subject or derail the thread.

 

A terrorist has the choice to live or die. A fetus does not. Abortion is murder.

[ImWithStupid]

So I take it that you believe that terrorist should be left alone and not killed, or are they not human too?

 

This is just like my death penalty comparison. The terrorist made choices that deemed them dangerous to society. A fetus isn't capable of this.

[snafu]

Lots of things kill, it doesn't automatically make them bad. By your 'reasoning' we should all still be driving horse-and-buggies So I take it that you believe that terrorist should be left alone and not killed, or are they not human too?

 

That fetus that was aborted terrorized no one. Not the same at all. And neither is your comparing skin to a fetus.

[Guest webDressing]

all gibberish..

Interesting... looks to me like you're all bark and no bite Seems all of a sudden you can't show any backbone and publicly defend your own statements. You can certainly duck and hide if that's your instinct. Reminds me of a turtle I once had OH BTW- why even try and participate in a debate if you aren't even willing to back up your statements with facts? That's a rhetorical question.

 

NO, they're not.

Really? So I take it you're not talking medically - you're talking in a fantasized way. Do you really want to go down that road with this topic?

 

Abortion is murder

Thank you for helping me to prove how irrational your thought process is. You apparently either don't know what abortion is, or what murder is, which is it? Oh, and please don't duck your responsibility to be specific about your accusation that was directed toward us earlier. You made the statement, now back it up!

[snafu]

Interesting... looks to me like you're all bark and no bite Seems all of a sudden you can't show any backbone and publicly defend your own statements. You can certainly duck and hide if that's your instinct. Reminds me of a turtle I once had OH BTW- why even try and participate in a debate if you aren't even willing to back up your statements with facts? That's a rhetorical question.

 

 

Really? So I take it you're not talking medically - you're talking in a fantasized way. Do you really want to go down that road with this topic?

 

 

Thank you for helping me to prove how irrational your thought process is. You apparently either don't know what abortion is, or what murder is, which is it? Oh, and please don't duck your responsibility to be specific about your accusation that was directed toward us earlier. You made the statement, now back it up!

 

So I?m guessing WebD that you think this guy who slipped this RU486 in his girlfriends smoothie should not be tried for murder?

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Interesting... looks to me like you're all bark and no bite Seems all of a sudden you can't show any backbone and publicly defend your own statements. You can certainly duck and hide if that's your instinct. Reminds me of a turtle I once had OH BTW- why even try and participate in a debate if you aren't even willing to back up your statements with facts? That's a rhetorical question.

 

 

Really? So I take it you're not talking medically - you're talking in a fantasized way. Do you really want to go down that road with this topic?

 

 

Thank you for helping me to prove how irrational your thought process is. You apparently either don't know what abortion is, or what murder is, which is it? Oh, and please don't duck your responsibility to be specific about your accusation that was directed toward us earlier. You made the statement, now back it up!

 

You should really learn to be direct. It's really much easier to understand someone who doesn't talk in circles. I don't have to, but will defend my statements to anyone,`elaborate.

 

Go down what road? Try, again, to make sense.

 

So... by declaring that abortion is killing (murder) I'm proving that I'm irrational? buzzer sound Wrong. I'm proving how YOU are irrational. If you can't see that abortion = killing... you really should get some help.

 

Toward us? Are you having multiple personalities now? Let me talk to the smartest one.

[ImWithStupid]

So... by declaring that abortion is killing (murder) I'm proving that I'm irrational? buzzer sound Wrong. I'm proving how YOU are irrational. If you can't see that abortion = killing... you really should get some help.

 

Technically murder is a legal term and as long as abortion is legal, then it can't be murder.

 

Murder: 1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

 

murder - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

 

I agree that it is killing.

 

Kill: 1 a: to deprive of life : cause the death of

 

kill - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

[timesjoke]

Lots of things kill, it doesn't automatically make them bad. By your 'reasoning' we should all still be driving horse-and-buggies So I take it that you believe that terrorist should be left alone and not killed, or are they not human too?

 

I am sorry buddy but where are you trying to go with the topic?

 

Your all over the road like a drunk driver, no direction or clue as to where your going.

 

 

Potential seems to be most of our points on life. The potential of a tooth will always be a tooth. It can never be anything else, there is no potential for unique existence.

 

The same is true for a tumor or a finger.

 

A better question is if your fingers are removed, or your teeth, do you stop being a person? If your answer is no, then you may start to understand how rediclious your comment is.

 

An embryo, fetus, growing baby is something else. It is unique from the moment of it's creation and has it's own set of DNA. If given a chance to continue down the normal cycle of life, it will be a person.

 

Actively stopping that cycle of life is killing that life.

 

 

So, the next question is when is there good reason to end life, under what circumstances are we willing as a society to condone the ending of life?

 

I find it interesting that we have protesters defending murders and trying to defend their lives but so many pollitically correct people refuse to defend innocent life. Life that has never harmed anyone is helpless, completely at the mercy of women who did not bother to care about the responsibility unprotected sex brings to them.

 

 

My stand on the public is different then my personal stands for my own life. While my religious beliefs would never allow me to kill an innocent life for convience, I understand that society as a whole cannot live up to my standards.

 

So, for society in general, I believe we should still have standards that reflect responsibility.

 

If a woman has risky sex, the result of that choice she made could possibly be the care of a child produced from her irresponsible behavoir. The man being just as irresponsible must provide support for that baby as well.

 

Here is where I allow the 5% factor I spoke about.

 

A very small number of abortions done in America is the result of rape, incest, and severe medical need for the mother.

 

In cases of medical need, rape, and incest, the woman/girl had no responsibility for the act. Her actions are without blame and as such, I can see where an exception for her lack of responsibility can be allowed.

 

 

Again, this is my view on society on the whole and based on the concept of responsibility and accountability in society. My own beliefs are completely seperate and my ability of seeing that defined seperation is the result of my age and experience in the world.

 

Everyone cannot be expected to meet the high moral standards some of us follow, but all of society can be expected to meet their responsibility in life and not try to escape it by killing an innocent life.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Technically murder is a legal term and as long as abortion is legal, then it can't be murder.

 

 

 

I agree that it is killing.

 

I changed it to killing. Murder is a legal term.

[Guest webDressing]

The terrorist made choices that deemed them dangerous to society

 

Yes they did but that's NOT what we're talking about here. This isn't about the capability to make decisions, or why someone should have a free pass to kill them, those are all based on opinions. The question couldn't be any more basic, are they human beings or not? I think we both know the answer to that, as difficult as it might me to admit :o The fact is that people make exceptions to kill another human being everyday. I'm not saying that it's bad or good, I'm saying that people can't just pick one thing and say that it's bad 100% of the time. Like most people, I wish that this were a perfect world, but it isn't. Unfortunately there are things in this world that are necessary evils The very people in this thread that are whining that abortion is killing, also have exceptions where they say it's OK to commit the same act, but that's a double standard. It's either killing or it's not. So it's not about if the act of abortion is killing anything, it's more about the fact that most people draw a line where they feel it's justifiable, and judging someone else's reasoning about where that line should be drawn isn't for another person to say. You have your line, I have mine, and the guy down the street has theirs. I can respect that. What I can't respect are these blanket statements that imply that since abortion can kill that it's bad 100% of the time, and any rational person knows that it is not. Unfortunately it sometimes falls in the 'necessary evil' group at times. Whether or not it is necessary has more to do with where a persons 'line' is drawn, and we all have our own reasons for putting that line where it is.

 

Well said.. and welcome to the site.

Thank you! Sorry it took so long to respond. Was side tracked by other posts

[Guest webDressing]

God made the baby, and as such- it deserves to live.

Not according to God, or have you forgotten about miscarriages Sometimes God even gave permission to kill infant children. In Samuel 15:3, God ordered Saul to massacre the Amalekites: "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; put to death men and women, children and infants, ox and sheep?". I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning per se. All I'm saying is that there is no person alive that knows exactly what God would want one way or the other, and it would be arrogant for any human being to suggest that they can read Gods mind.

[snafu]

Yes they did but that's NOT what we're talking about here. This isn't about the capability to make decisions, or why someone should have a free pass to kill them, those are all based on opinions. The question couldn't be any more basic, are they human beings or not? I think we both know the answer to that, as difficult as it might me to admit :o The fact is that people make exceptions to kill another human being everyday. I'm not saying that it's bad or good, I'm saying that people can't just pick one thing and say that it's bad 100% of the time. Like most people, I wish that this were a perfect world, but it isn't. Unfortunately there are things in this world that are necessary evils The very people in this thread that are whining that abortion is killing, also have exceptions where they say it's OK to commit the same act, but that's a double standard. It's either killing or it's not. So it's not about if the act of abortion is killing anything, it's more about the fact that most people draw a line where they feel it's justifiable, and judging someone else's reasoning about where that line should be drawn isn't for another person to say. You have your line, I have mine, and the guy down the street has theirs. I can respect that. What I can't respect are these blanket statements that imply that since abortion can kill that it's bad 100% of the time, and any rational person knows that it is not. Unfortunately it sometimes falls in the 'necessary evil' group at times. Whether or not it is necessary has more to do with where a persons 'line' is drawn, and we all have our own reasons for putting that line where it is.

 

 

Thank you! Sorry it took so long to respond. Was side tracked by other posts

 

The ONLY viable reason for killing is to protect another life. I would not allow abortion for anything other than for the safety of the mother if it were up to me.

[timesjoke]

And yet he still refuses to talk about life and the ending of that life.

 

 

A person does not just appear from thin air.

 

Life is a series of steps in development, an embryo is just as much a part of our existance as old age. Trying to say that stage of life is not life does not connect with logic.

 

Life is life, the stage your in at the time does not diminish the reality your alive. If someone is very old and needing care to do even the most basic things, does that mean they are not alive? Some say we enter and leave life in the same state of helplessness, I believe this is true, and it is how we treat the helpless that define our society.

 

 

An unborn baby in the womb is as helpless as it gets, it had no decision in it's creation and no decision if it will get the chance to survive.

[Guest webDressing]

no direction or clue as to where your going.

That's only because the people that I'm in conversation with, don't have the backbone to go on record and answer direct questions. Typical.

 

Potential seems to be most of our points on life.

Maybe in your world, but in the real world that's not necessarily the case. The bottom line is that you either want to live in a world where there is freedom of choice, or one where people are slaves to the whims of what 'this' or 'that' group want. I believe that until you are in another persons shoes you do NOT have the right to make decisions for them. The rest of what you said was pure opinion, and while you have the right to hold those opinions for yourself, you do not have the right to impose them on another person. I personally am against abortion, but I also understand that everyone has individual life situations, and no one has the right to shoe-horn their beliefs on another individual. To do so would be taking that persons freedom of choice away. One person may not like the choices in life that another individual has chosen, but they have no right to force that person to change their personal choice. It's their life. It's their choice. By them making their choice - it in no way infringes on your options or choices. Bottom line; to control another human being is to take their freedom of choice away, very much like slavery did. In fact the very definition of slavery is "the state of being under the control of another person". I do not believe in slavery of ANY kind, pure and simple. Justify it as you may, but the fact is that forcing another person to live a certain way is a form of slavery, and no one has the right to be any other persons 'master'. Deal with it

 

The ONLY viable reason for killing is to protect another life.

That is not a fact and is only your opinion. As I stated, other people have drawn the line on either side of yours, and that is their right, just as it is your right to place your line exactly where it is.

 

I would not allow abortion for anything other than for the safety of the mother if it were up to me.

Yes, that's fine, BUT you are not King of the land, and you do not have the right to pose your personal feelings on another human being. Each and every year around 90 people are killed by lightning strikes, but does that mean that we should have a law where people cannot walk outside when it rains This sounds silly to you because it is silly, but it wouldn't be silly if you were really serous about the act of killing another human being. BTW do you drive a car? You're so concerned about "killing" that I'm sure you wouldn't support a device that kills over 45,000 human beings each and every year, and that's only in America The facts are that every day more than 134 people die in a highway related death. Every week about 938 people die, and every month about 3750 people die in a highway related death. That is an estimated 45,000 deaths due to automobile accidents each and EVERY year. These deaths are accidental, to be sure, but our decision to participate in a mode of transportation that we already know will kill 45,000 people is not accidental. We also know there were virtually no deaths in horse-and-buggy days. We have decided to accept those 45,000 deaths a year simply because we value the convenience. There is no law that you must drive a horse-and-buggy just because it saves lives. Unfortunately some people treat abortions with the same attitude that it's OK because it's convenient, but it is not right for you to whine about one situation of killing and not the other, unless you're hypocritical. Either all forms of killing human beings are wrong or they're not. No double standards, that's all I'm saying.

 

it had no decision in it's creation and no decision if it will get the chance to survive.

Are you decribing the ZEF, or the pregnant woman? It's so hard to tell sometimes. Oh well, it wouldn't get to be a fetus if there were more support for better birth control or Mifepristone now would it? At that point it probably should be treated as any other parasite in a persons body should be treated. Oops... silly me, I just called your precious fetus a parasite, bet that pisses you off huh? We'll let's examine what a parasite is before you start to howl at the moon;

 

Parasite ? noun ? an organism which lives in or on another organism, and benefits at the other?s expense.

 

Yep, looks like it fits the mold. Bet you didn't know about all of the physical damage that a fetus causes a womans body while it's there inside her huh? Bet you also didn't know that pregnancy complications KILL half a million women each and every year huh? I mean you are sooo concerned about "killing" human beings, but by your reasoning these human beings are for some odd reason expendable, aren't they? Oh darn, that would be another one of your double standards now wouldn't it? And still, for some odd reason you think that the ZEF should have more rights than a fully grown woman. No logic there, looks like you're right on course

[ImWithStupid]

Bottom line; to control another human being is to take their freedom of choice away, very much like slavery did. In fact the very definition of slavery is "the state of being under the control of another person". I do not believe in slavery of ANY kind, pure and simple. Justify it as you may, but the fact is that forcing another person to live a certain way is a form of slavery, and no one has the right to be any other persons 'master'. Deal with it

 

Slavery is only bad in your opinion. It is deemed bad and illegal in our country but that doesn't mean it couldn't be OK in another country/culture. I personally believe slavery to be wrong and totally unacceptable but that doesn't mean everyone in existance has to. Heck, the Bible even says that it's OK to have slaves.

 

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

 

Yes, that's fine, BUT you are not King of the land, and you do not have the right to pose your personal feelings on another human being.

 

Which means that the King of another land could have this right and ability.

 

One question. You said that,

 

I do not believe in slavery of ANY kind, pure and simple. Justify it as you may, but the fact is that forcing another person to live a certain way is a form of slavery, and no one has the right to be any other persons 'master'.

 

But in an earlier post you said this...

 

I'm not saying that it's bad or good, I'm saying that people can't just pick one thing and say that it's bad 100% of the time.

 

Does that mean that slavery is OK sometimes, or does that mean that you are a hypocrite.

[eddo]

My stance- God created the life. Some loser may have forced her to have sex' date=' but God made the baby, and as such- it deserves to live.[/quote']

 

Not according to God, or have you forgotten about miscarriages Sometimes God even gave permission to kill infant children. In Samuel 15:3, God ordered Saul to massacre the Amalekites: "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; put to death men and women, children and infants, ox and sheep?". I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning per se. All I'm saying is that there is no person alive that knows exactly what God would want one way or the other, and it would be arrogant for any human being to suggest that they can read Gods mind.

 

That is a completely bogus argument.

 

Since God is the one who created the life, God then has the right to call for the end of said life. It's when we, as a race of people, decide that out of our inconvenience it is ok to end a life that God started that we become "arrogant."

[timesjoke]

That's only because the people that I'm in conversation with, don't have the backbone to go on record and answer direct questions. Typical.

 

Like you just did with me and several other people?

 

Your bouncing from one direction to another and making derogatory remarks is being honest and answering direct questions?

 

Maybe in your world, but in the real world that's not necessarily the case. The bottom line is that you either want to live in a world where there is freedom of choice, or one where people are slaves to the whims of what 'this' or 'that' group want.

 

More insults?

 

Anyone who does not believe what you believe is not in the "real" world?

 

You have a very bad attitude. If you already know everything and believe everyone with a different opinion is not living in the "real" world, why are you here?

 

To preach?

 

 

But to blow away your assumption, answer this direct question:

 

Was the woman's choice to have risky sex a choice?

 

What your describing is the baby being the slave to the whims of an irresponsible woman. Why are you not concerned with that slave?

 

 

I believe that until you are in another persons shoes you do NOT have the right to make decisions for them. The rest of what you said was pure opinion, and while you have the right to hold those opinions for yourself, you do not have the right to impose them on another person.

 

Like that opinion you just spouted?

 

So in your opinion, I can only judge a child molester if I am a child molester?

 

I cannot judge him or impose rules against his wrong actions to protect the innocent lives he harms?

 

 

I can and will hold any opinion about proper morals and behavoir I darn well please without your permission thank you. Every law on the books from speeding to murder is based on society creating guidelines for behavoir, so stop the preaching about imposing things on others, society is not possible without rules and guidelines.

 

 

I personally am against abortion, but I also understand that everyone has individual life situations, and no one has the right to shoe-horn their beliefs on another individual. To do so would be taking that persons freedom of choice away. One person may not like the choices in life that another individual has chosen, but they have no right to force that person to change their personal choice. It's their life. It's their choice. By them making their choice - it in no way infringes on your options or choices. Bottom line; to control another human being is to take their freedom of choice away, very much like slavery did. In fact the very definition of slavery is "the state of being under the control of another person". I do not believe in slavery of ANY kind, pure and simple. Justify it as you may, but the fact is that forcing another person to live a certain way is a form of slavery, and no one has the right to be any other persons 'master'. Deal with it

 

Again, so it is okay for the mother to enslave the life she created, and even kill that life, why is slavery only a reasonable action if it is woman imposing it?

 

Anyway, your entire concept is completely flawed.

 

We as a society impose restrictions on behavoirs all the time. We put people in prison for failing to pay their taxes, why not for something more severe like killing a child?

 

 

 

 

 

Are you decribing the ZEF, or the pregnant woman? It's so hard to tell sometimes. Oh well, it wouldn't get to be a fetus if there were more support for better birth control or Mifepristone now would it?

 

Being as most abortions are with women who never used protection of any kind, your point is meaningless. Why is it you guys always concentrate on 5% of the problem and ignore 95% of the problem that is irresponsible actions?

 

 

By the way, all the interesting names people have invented to describe the different stages of life mean nothing, it is still life. Life stopped at any point of it's natural progression is still killing that life.

 

 

At that point it probably should be treated as any other parasite in a persons body should be treated. Oops... silly me, I just called your precious fetus a parasite, bet that pisses you off huh? We'll let's examine what a parasite is before you start to howl at the moon;

 

Parasite ? noun ? an organism which lives in or on another organism, and benefits at the other?s expense.

 

Yep, looks like it fits the mold.

 

A person with tetraplegia fits the same definition, so we kill them too?

 

Only life that can completely care for itself is valuable?

 

How about welfare recepients? They are a parasite on society right? They deserve to die? They have no right to live?

 

 

 

If your half as smart as your pretending to be you should start to see some huge gaps in your logic by now.

 

 

 

Bet you didn't know about all of the physical damage that a fetus causes a womans body while it's there inside her huh? Bet you also didn't know that pregnancy complications KILL half a million women each and every year huh? I mean you are sooo concerned about "killing" human beings, but by your reasoning these human beings are for some odd reason expendable, aren't they? Oh darn, that would be another one of your double standards now wouldn't it? And still, for some odd reason you think that the ZEF should have more rights than a fully grown woman. No logic there, looks like you're right on course

 

Okay, first of all, your outlandish claim of deaths is from "world" statistics, not America, in America there are very few deaths from complications during pregnancy so there goes that claim.

 

Second, yes the baby can cause some harm to the woman, but again, you still keep dodging the fact that almost all abortions are due to irresponsible sexual practices and abortion is used as a means to escape the responsibility of their "choice" already made.

 

Third, what is it with your constant attitude of talking down your nose to people?

 

I don't believe what you believe so you "assume" I don't understand what happens to a woman's body?

 

I have three kids and know more about a woman's body than the average woman.

 

You need to leave your assumptions and personal attacks at the door if your truly interested in honest discussion.

 

 

 

You keep dodging the fact that once a person is conceived, life starts, it is a journey, that journey starts in the womb and if lucky, will end with along life and lots of love from friends and family that value them.

 

If unlucky, they will start life in the womb, and the mother will kill it before it ever gets a chance to see the world.

[Guest webDressing]

Since God is the one who created the life

Oh really? I thought the two people who had the sex created the life. Are you talking about a virgin birth?

 

God then has the right to call for the end of said life.

But God is not 'calling' for ANYTHING, man is.

 

Checkmate

 

Please stay seated until the ride comes to a complete stop

[snafu]

The ONLY viable reason for killing is to protect another life. I would not allow abortion for anything other than for the safety of the mother if it were up to me.

 

.............

 

 

That is not a fact and is only your opinion. As I stated, other people have drawn the line on either side of yours, and that is their right, just as it is your right to place your line exactly where it is.

...........

 

 

Dude.. this is a debate fourm. It's just everybodies opinions. Your not sticking to any facts.

[snafu]

I think hugo is the only one that sticks to the facts.