Muslims and western society

[wez]

The problem with idiots like Wez is he must defend any and all elements that attack or degrade the government he hates. It is like the old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Wez sees the government and established order as his enemy, and even though terrorists and such do things he may find distastful, he likes the results of their attacks on society so he supports them and does everything he can to derail any real discussion against them.

 

 

I point out two recent topics, this one and the one about muslims rioting, both times Wez comes out using misdirection and trying desperately to make everything about his personal attacks so all discussion about the real topic gets lost in flame wars.

 

 

Wez is so transparent it is funny, he is everything he claims we are. He is intolerant of anything American, western, or governmental, no matter what it is, he will damn everything to do with these things.

 

 

Let's look at an example of Wez changing the subject, he started talking about Catholics molesting children, while I agree that these are scum that need to be executed, this has nothing to do with this discussion. Catholics are not trying to change local laws to allow sharia law, they are not killing innocent girls for not covering their faces, Catholics are not trying to end all established holidays. Catholics are not demanding special treatments paid for my our tax money like foot baths and special, all muslim classes in public schools to allow their daytime prayers.

 

 

 

 

Let's try to keep this on track, the topic is about how muslims refuse to fit into the societies they move to and instead want the established society to change to suit them. If you cannot talk about this topic, please take it elsewhere.

 

Sounds to me like you think I, and muslims should change to suit you. Last I knew, this was America, or not.

 

By the way, I don't hate anything or anyone like you, stop putting words in my mouth for the tenth time.

[timesjoke]

Sounds to me like you think I, and muslims should change to suit you. Last I knew, this was America, or not.

 

By the way, I don't hate anything or anyone like you, stop putting words in my mouth for the tenth time.

 

 

Your very actions to defend terrorists and rioters shows your true hatred, you cannot hide behind your lies Wez.

 

If you agreed that what they do is wrong, you would support the actions needed to stop them, being as you both defend them and attack the measures used to stop them, clearly your hatred boils over against your own government and people in favor of them.

 

And you dare to say you follow the preachings of Jesus, Jesus would never make excuses for terrorists blowing up busses filled with school children or daycare centers, your just sick.

[eddo]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Get what Jesus is saying?

 

yep, and if my if my religion was coercing it's children to wear suicide vests, if people in my church were killing their children for not covering their faces, if I was demanding that everyone who doesn't believe the same as I do be executed-

 

You had better believe that I would want someone to step in and say something- even if I didn't know any better. Absolutely.

 

 

 

In fact, that is just what i have done regarding some Christian Fundamentalist groups: Spoken up to make sure those around me know that this is not typical Christian behavior, nor is it endorsed by God.

[wez]

Your very actions to defend terrorists and rioters shows your true hatred, you cannot hide behind your lies Wez.

 

What lie is that? That killing people is wrong, period, or the lie that it's wrong for everyone but you and your country?

 

If you agreed that what they do is wrong, you would support the actions needed to stop them, being as you both defend them and attack the measures used to stop them, clearly your hatred boils over against your own government and people in favor of them.

 

 

They are as wrong as those who invade foriegn nations under the banner of a government in the name of "stopping them" from doing and being what we are. That's pretty f cked up.

 

And you dare to say you follow the preachings of Jesus, Jesus would never make excuses for terrorists blowing up busses filled with school children or daycare centers, your just sick.

 

Nor would he condone murdering people for natural resourses, humanitarian, or any other reason you can pull out of your ass to condone murdering people and calling it something else.

 

I'm sick? Hahahahahaha

[timesjoke]

What lie is that? That killing people is wrong, period, or the lie that it's wrong for everyone but you and your country?

 

 

But your a lier, you only claim it is wrong to kill if it is America doing it, you fully support muslims doing it.

 

You either believe it is all wrong or you don't, clearly your actions prove you believe terrorists killing innocent children is a good thing the way you always defend them.

 

 

They are as wrong as those who invade foriegn nations under the banner of a government in the name of "stopping them" from doing and being what we are. That's pretty f cked up.

 

Nope, it is a good thing to stop terrorists, maybe a child you care about will be killed by a terrorist so you can care about the innocent being killed but until that day comes, we will do what needs to be done while you sit back and defend terrorists.

 

 

Nor would he condone murdering people for natural resourses, humanitarian, or any other reason you can pull out of your ass to condone murdering people and calling it something else.

 

I'm sick? Hahahahahaha

 

And yet I don't try to pretend to be a Jesus freak, you do.

 

You claim to follow the teachings of Jesus but you defend terrorists, that is what makes you sick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I ask you leave your personal attacks out of this discussion. Start a new thread and attack America all you want but I am attempting to discuss the muslim refusal to blend into the society they moved to and why so many people believe we should allow this to happen.

 

 

 

I ask any moderator to please split this topic if Wez continues to ignore the topic at hand.

[wez]

But your a lier, you only claim it is wrong to kill if it is America doing it, you fully support muslims doing it.

 

How the f ck did you come to that conclusion? How many times do i have to say it? Intentionally killing people is wrong, period.

 

You either believe it is all wrong or you don't, clearly your actions prove you believe terrorists killing innocent children is a good thing the way you always defend them.

 

 

Duh, My name is TJ, I put words in peoples mouths and keep going until it becomes reality.

 

 

 

 

Nope, it is a good thing to stop terrorists, maybe a child you care about will be killed by a terrorist so you can care about the innocent being killed but until that day comes, we will do what needs to be done while you sit back and defend terrorists.

 

 

The government had a hell of a time coming up with a definition for "terrorist" that didn't include them, matter of fact, they never did. What is the definition according to TJ?

 

 

 

 

And yet I don't try to pretend to be a Jesus freak, you do.

 

You claim to follow the teachings of Jesus but you defend terrorists, that is what makes you sick.

 

 

I speak out against hypocrites, period.

 

 

 

Again, I ask you leave your personal attacks out of this discussion. Start a new thread and attack America all you want but I am attempting to discuss the muslim refusal to blend into the society they moved to and why so many people believe we should allow this to happen.

 

 

 

I ask any moderator to please split this topic if Wez continues to ignore the topic at hand.

 

 

The truth = bashing America? Hard to maintain lies when worlds collide, eh?

 

 

Take a look at your personal attack up there, and cry in the mirror. Split what? Truth with fantasy and personal attacks according to TJ? Hahahahahahaha

[wez]

Hey TJ, how about individuals, muslim or otherwise, blend themselves any way they like in the land of the free, home of the brave, where church and state are kept seperate for a reason, or not.

[timesjoke]

How the f ck did you come to that conclusion? How many times do i have to say it? Intentionally killing people is wrong, period.

 

As I keep saying, and you keep demonstrating, "You can make your mouth say anything".

 

You "say" all killing is bad but you follow up with defending terrorists saying they have a good reason for what they do, clearly these two things collide and show your true belief that it is okay to kill if your a terrorist under your belief structure.

 

 

Duh, My name is TJ, I put words in peoples mouths and keep going until it becomes reality.

 

I know you are but what am I?

 

Grow up.

 

 

 

 

The government had a hell of a time coming up with a definition for "terrorist" that didn't include them, matter of fact, they never did. What is the definition according to TJ?

 

(/11, strapping a bomb to your chest and boarding a school bus, etc.....

 

You see, intent is the key. A terrorist only wants to kill innocents because that creats the most fear, while we spend billions on precision bombs to keep collateral damage to a minimum, we clearly do not want innocents to die.

 

How about you?

 

 

 

 

I speak out against hypocrites, period.

 

Your the biggest hypocrite on this forum so start speaking out against yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

The truth = bashing America? Hard to maintain lies when worlds collide, eh?

 

Your right, it is difficult for you to maintain your lies in the face of the truth but you always seem to find a way to persue your anti-American, anti-government agenda.

 

 

Take a look at your personal attack up there, and cry in the mirror. Split what? Truth with fantasy and personal attacks according to TJ? Hahahahahahaha

 

As usual, you start the personal attacks, I opened a topic talking about muslims not fitting into western societies and you talk about child molesters, you attack me and eddo, you talk about evil America but you refuse to talk about muslims forcing established societies to change, why do you always dodge the topic and make everythign about you and your hatred?

 

 

Hey TJ, how about individuals, muslim or otherwise, blend themselves any way they like in the land of the free, home of the brave, where church and state are kept seperate for a reason, or not.

 

Blending in is not changing completely all that was there before you came.

[wez]

As I keep saying, and you keep demonstrating, "You can make your mouth say anything".

 

You "say" all killing is bad but you follow up with defending terrorists saying they have a good reason for what they do, clearly these two things collide and show your true belief that it is okay to kill if your a terrorist under your belief structure.

 

 

I don't defend terrorists, you do. I don't condone their actions, you do by condoning the violent actions of you and yours. See how that works? Keep backing it up with hypocrisy, it's the only way to defend it like I said a month and a half ago.

 

It's NEVER ok to intentionally kill another human being, period.

 

 

 

I know you are but what am I?

 

Grow up.

 

 

You are a supporter of terrorism yet claim I am and want to punish me for it.

 

 

 

 

 

(/11, strapping a bomb to your chest and boarding a school bus, etc.....

 

You see, intent is the key. A terrorist only wants to kill innocents because that creats the most fear, while we spend billions on precision bombs to keep collateral damage to a minimum, we clearly do not want innocents to die.

 

How about you?

 

 

What was the intention of "shock and awe"? "Death and fear"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your the biggest hypocrite on this forum so start speaking out against yourself.

 

 

Then you should be able to prove it, like I do.

 

 

Your right, it is difficult for you to maintain your lies in the face of the truth but you always seem to find a way to persue your anti-American, anti-government agenda.

 

 

You mean my anti hypocrite agenda? It's sick sh t and I like to speak against it.

 

You are anti American... you can't even let people use the word "oppression" without throwing a hissy fit. Real Americans don't want to control anyone through fear, intimidation, and hypocrisy like yourself.

 

 

 

 

As usual, you start the personal attacks, I opened a topic talking about muslims not fitting into western societies and you talk about child molesters, you attack me and eddo, you talk about evil America but you refuse to talk about muslims forcing established societies to change, why do you always dodge the topic and make everythign about you and your hatred?

 

Nice generalizations of what I didn't say, again.

 

 

Blending in is not changing completely all that was there before you came.

 

 

What do muslims want to change? The fact that they are now persecuted for the actions of a handful of the hundreds of millions of muslims in the world?

 

 

Lets make all Catholics register as sex offenders too..

 

 

Oh yeah, don't forget your definition of terrorism, I want to know how I may be possibly use the term correctly.

[timesjoke]

I don't defend terrorists, you do. I don't condone their actions, you do by condoning the violent actions of you and yours. See how that works? Keep backing it up with hypocrisy, it's the only way to defend it like I said a month and a half ago.

 

It's NEVER ok to intentionally kill another human being, period.

 

You said they had good reasons for what they did, that is defending their actions. If you feel it is okay for terrorists to strap a bomb on their body and take out a school bus, it is you who is truly sick.

 

 

 

 

 

You are a supporter of terrorism yet claim I am and want to punish me for it.

 

I want you to accept responsibility for defending terrorists, it was you who said you thought they had a good reason for what they did, you said it so sleep in the bed you made.

 

You either directly condemn the terrorist actions or you don't, so far you don't and only say America is bad in everything we do.

 

 

 

 

 

What was the intention of "shock and awe"? "Death and fear"?

 

It would have been more shock and awe to just pound the city with standard munitions. Instead we used munitions that cost thirty times as much so we could keep collateral damage to as small a number as possible.

 

Terrorists don't take the extra care and expense to avoid collateral damage and in fact will target innocents exclusively sometimes, like 9/11.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then you should be able to prove it, like I do.

 

I have already proven you lied but you just play childish games in trying to say we are doing what you in fact are doing.

 

 

 

You mean my anti hypocrite agenda? It's sick sh t and I like to speak against it.

 

You are anti American... you can't even let people use the word "oppression" without throwing a hissy fit. Real Americans don't want to control anyone through fear, intimidation, and hypocrisy like yourself.

 

I am just tired of sissy little babies like you crying all the time and holding your hand out begging for your government to give you free money and stuff. You are a taker, a cancer on society, a complete waste of air.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice generalizations of what I didn't say, again.

 

And yet you still have not talked about the topic yet, imagine that.

 

 

 

 

What do muslims want to change? The fact that they are now persecuted for the actions of a handful of the hundreds of millions of muslims in the world?

 

Persecuted?

 

Where are they persecuted?

 

Everywhere I look I see them getting special treatment, like public schools making speical classes of all muslim children so they can pray several times a day, I thought we could not pray in school but it seems only Christians cannot pray.

 

 

Lets make all Catholics register as sex offenders too..

 

Molesting children is not ordered in the Bible, but killing infidels using "any stratigum of war" is called for in the Quran.

 

Oh yeah, don't forget your definition of terrorism, I want to know how I may be possibly use the term correctly.

 

I already defined it for you, please try to keep up.

[wez]

You said they had good reasons for what they did, that is defending their actions. If you feel it is okay for terrorists to strap a bomb on their body and take out a school bus, it is you who is truly sick.

 

 

It's not ok for anyone to intentionally kill anyone. There is never a good reason for anyone to intentionally kill anyone.

 

For the last time, quit putting words in my mouth saying the opposite of what I say.

 

You think violence is acceptable for you and yours.

 

Violence is NEVER acceptable and I will never validate for you that it is.

 

I say violence is unacceptable, you say it is acceptable. You think it's ok for a terrorist to push a button and destroy a city and many, many innocent lives. But it's not ok for a terrorist to strap a bomb on their body and blow up a bus? Do you not want terrorist to hurt themselves?

 

Sick bastard, you condone violence, not me.

 

 

 

I want you to accept responsibility for defending terrorists, it was you who said you thought they had a good reason for what they did, you said it so sleep in the bed you made.

 

You either directly condemn the terrorist actions or you don't, so far you don't and only say America is bad in everything we do.

 

Didn't say they had a good reason, you do.

 

Violence is never ok for any reason under the sun.

 

You condemn others for being what you are and doing what you do, (kill people), and want to punish, (kill) them for it.

 

 

You condone terrorism/violence/murder by your own words. Not me. How many more months are you going to try to convince me I'm you?

 

 

You are what you hate and that is why you hate it. You can try to contradict and contrast methods of violence to make yourself feel superior because you and yours spend billions of dollars to not save, but kill people, jackass.

 

 

 

It would have been more shock and awe to just pound the city with standard munitions. Instead we used munitions that cost thirty times as much so we could keep collateral damage to as small a number as possible.

 

Terrorists don't take the extra care and expense to avoid collateral damage and in fact will target innocents exclusively sometimes, like 9/11.

 

 

Then you think it's ok for Iran to build and spend as much on weapons to kill people, "safely"? If your terrorist tools are so much better, how about trading them to those you condemn so they can do it the right way too?

 

But then again, how could you avoid seeing the truth if that were the case. You'd be forced to admit that you are what you hate rather than try to put it on a "weak pacifist" as being the violence condoning sick f cker.

 

 

 

I have already proven you lied but you just play childish games in trying to say we are doing what you in fact are doing.

 

 

Lied about what now? You prove nothing but your hypocrisy. You merely repeat "you lie", "you lied", you're a lier" over and over without ever providing any evidence of anything.

 

 

What's the lie now?

 

 

I am just tired of sissy little babies like you crying all the time and holding your hand out begging for your government to give you free money and stuff. You are a taker, a cancer on society, a complete waste of air.

 

 

Hahahahahaha.. what the f ck are you talking about? Yourself again.. poor TJ.

 

 

 

 

And yet you still have not talked about the topic yet, imagine that.

 

 

What topic? The words you put in my mouth? You really can't be this stupid..

 

 

 

Persecuted?

 

Where are they persecuted?

 

Everywhere I look I see them getting special treatment, like public schools making speical classes of all muslim children so they can pray several times a day, I thought we could not pray in school but it seems only Christians cannot pray.

 

 

Everywhere I look, the same people who have been getting special treatment for 300 years are still getting special treatment. Why don't you try worrying about yourself for a change?

 

 

 

 

Molesting children is not ordered in the Bible, but killing infidels using "any stratigum of war" is called for in the Quran.

 

 

Are you an expert on the Quran and muslimism? Worry about your own bible.

 

 

 

I already defined it for you, please try to keep up.

 

 

You ignored my request, you defined sh t. if you are not full of sh t, cut and paste that definition or tell me exactly where to find it.

[eddo]

For the last time, quit putting words in my mouth saying the opposite of what I say.

 

You think violence is acceptable for you and yours.

 

holy freaking cow...

 

 

That right there is down right amazing wez. The single best example of hypocrisy I have ever see.

"don't put words in my mouth, but I am gonna put some in yours."

 

 

un-freakin'-believable.

 

 

 

I have an idea for the rest of this thread (and maybe even the others here):

 

How 'bout WE all quit saying what we think others are saying and just speak for ourselves?

 

Seriously guys, this "You said this" and "No, I didn't say that, but you said this." stuff is getting real old and has killed another possible good topic. I'm not trying to blame any one, just asking if we could maybe move forward without it?

 

So, lets all share our own thoughts, our own ideas, our own words- and quit all this nonsense that leads no where. Please.

 

 

Thanks.

[wez]

holy freaking cow...

 

 

That right there is down right amazing wez. The single best example of hypocrisy I have ever see.

"don't put words in my mouth, but I am gonna put some in yours."

 

 

TJ doesn't support the violent actions of the US military?

 

 

un-freakin'-believable. My mistake.. hopefully you can get your son out.

 

 

 

I have an idea for the rest of this thread (and maybe even the others here):

 

How 'bout WE all quit saying what we think others are saying and just speak for ourselves?

 

Seriously guys, this "You said this" and "No, I didn't say that, but you said this." stuff is getting real old and has killed another possible good topic. I'm not trying to blame any one, just asking if we could maybe move forward without it?

 

So, lets all share our own thoughts, our own ideas, our own words- and quit all this nonsense that leads no where. Please.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Good idea, quit speaking for TJ and he can quit speaking for you.... How about you mind you own business and not worry about me along with TJ.. 3 years is enough eddo, time to find a new "target". It'll never get any better eddo... I'll never be you.

[snafu]

holy freaking cow...

 

 

That right there is down right amazing wez. The single best example of hypocrisy I have ever see.

"don't put words in my mouth, but I am gonna put some in yours."

 

 

un-freakin'-believable.

 

 

 

I have an idea for the rest of this thread (and maybe even the others here):

 

How 'bout WE all quit saying what we think others are saying and just speak for ourselves?

 

Seriously guys, this "You said this" and "No, I didn't say that, but you said this." stuff is getting real old and has killed another possible good topic. I'm not trying to blame any one, just asking if we could maybe move forward without it?

 

So, lets all share our own thoughts, our own ideas, our own words- and quit all this nonsense that leads no where. Please.

 

 

Thanks.

 

I have to agree on this.:o

[eddo]

 

How 'bout WE all quit saying what we think others are saying and just speak for ourselves?

 

I'll never be you.

 

I guess I asked for to much.

[wez]

I have to agree on this.:o

 

 

I didn't put words in TJ's mouth snaf... opposite. And if TJ and eddo want to go in circles for the next 45 years, I'm game. I can do it my sleep. I don't confuse easily...

[wez]

I guess I asked for to much.

 

 

Mind your own business... go stroke TJ's ego in PM's.

 

I'll say whatever I want to say whenever I want to say it. Thank you.

[snafu]

I guess I asked for to much.

 

It just keeps on going back and forth. Like you said you can't blame just one person. I said he said stuff is getting annoying. If you don't agree move on.

[wez]

It just keeps on going back and forth. Like you said you can't blame just one person. I said he said stuff is getting annoying. If you don't agree move on.

 

 

It does get annoying, but I'm used to dealing with hypocrites, and will never give in. I ain't anyones scapegoat... specially yours eddo.

 

 

If reading it annoys you, don't read it.

 

You've been claiming I'm you for 3 years eddo, TJ a couple months... how about you take your own advice?

 

I'm sorry hitching your wagon to the TJ express didn't pan out for you eddo. Don't worry, plenty of fish in the sea and I'm sure I'll piss off another hypocrite soon for you to glom on to.. Hahahahahaha

[snafu]

I didn't put words in TJ's mouth snaf... opposite...

YOu both are going back and forth with this .

 

 

And if TJ and eddo want to go in circles for the next 45 years, I'm game. I can do it my sleep. I don't confuse easily...

That's what I like about you. Stamina and a core believe. I was an old hippy too. I know where you?re coming from but I dont' believe your right. But you see you and I don't go back and forth with it.. We have respect for eachother. That's all we need for the rest of the crew here.

[wez]

YOu both are going back and forth with this .

 

 

 

That's what I like about you. Stamina and a core believe. I was an old hippy too. I know where you?re coming from but I dont' believe your right. But you see you and I don't go back and forth with it.. We have respect for eachother. That's all we need for the rest of the crew here.

 

 

Perhaps when you're faced with 3 years of slander, lies and hypocrisy from morons online who will do anything in their power to get "the upper hand", you'll understand. I choose not to show respect to those who have none for themselves, or anyone else they disagree with.

 

 

I am right about what eddo and TJ have done, and continue to do.. and have proven it more times than I can count and will continue to do so for as long as they continue. Nobody has to agree with anything I say, and I sure wont be bullied into agreeing with anyone.

[eddo]

how about you take your own advice?

My "advice" was for everyone Wez. You, me, TJ, and anyone else that is playing this game.

 

I don't understand why you appear to be unwilling to move forward, but I should be used to it by now. It doesn't matter who can go the longest- the object of this place is to discuss interesting and relevant topics, and sharing different ideas and perspectives. Right now that isn't happening because many of us are caught up in this stupid on-going battle. Nothing is getting accomplished.

 

 

I'm saying it's time to move forward. What do you think Wez? What do you think TJ?

 

Thank you snafu for your input.

[wez]

My "advice" was for everyone Wez. You, me, TJ, and anyone else that is playing this game.

 

I don't understand why you appear to be unwilling to move forward, but I should be used to it by now. It doesn't matter who can go the longest- the object of this place is to discuss interesting and relevant topics, and sharing different ideas and perspectives. Right now that isn't happening because many of us are caught up in this stupid on-going battle. Nothing is getting accomplished.

 

 

I'm saying it's time to move forward. What do you think Wez? What do you think TJ?

 

Thank you snafu for your input.

 

 

I wouldn't trust you any farther than I could throw you.. but I am willing to move forward as long as the slander, lies, and hypocrisy stops, now.

 

 

 

People may or may not agree with my views on violence, but when I say things like "Tell me why it's ok for the US to have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the Earth a thousand times over but not ok for other countries?" and "why is it ok for you and yours to kill people but not ok for others?" knowing full well the only possible explaination is slander, hypocrisy, anger, and intimidation, or silence by those smart enough to know that there is no valid reason other than hypocrisy.

 

Anyone care to try without slander,anger, hypocrisy, and intimidation?

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

To get this debate back on track, this is how I see it:

 

Prior to the seventh century, their were no moslems, and there were no moslem countries. Today there are probably 20+ moslem countries.

 

Now, no one ever said to moslems - here is a country no one wants, you can have it if you want. Every country they have, they have taken by force or coercion.

 

Mohammed and his buddies murdered Jews, Christians and probably other groups at a place called Medina. And so the conquest spread in this fashion.

 

From having no country, they now have many, and it is violence that has gotten them what they want.

 

They see clearly that violence pays. If they think they can win by force, they go straight to force. If they see they cannot, they agitate to win concessions while they wait for the position to improve.

 

There is no such thing as peaceful cohabitation with moslems. They hate Jews, Christians, Hindus, Seihks, Buddhists, Atheists and any other religious group not their own.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

To get this debate back on track, this is how I see it:

 

Prior to the seventh century, their were no moslems, and there were no moslem countries. Today there are probably 20+ moslem countries.

 

Now, no one ever said to moslems - here is a country no one wants, you can have it if you want. Every country they have, they have taken by force or coercion.

 

Mohammed and his buddies murdered Jews, Christians and probably other groups at a place called Medina. And so the conquest spread in this fashion.

 

From having no country, they now have many, and it is violence that has gotten them what they want.

 

They see clearly that violence pays. If they think they can win by force, they go straight to force. If they see they cannot, they agitate to win concessions while they wait for the position to improve.

 

There is no such thing as peaceful cohabitation with moslems. They hate Jews, Christians, Hindus, Seihks, Buddhists, Atheists and any other religious group not their own.

 

good point...

 

(did I just say something good to sheik? Is he making more sense... Wow.) lol.