Muslims and western society

[wez]

He doesn't get it. He is trying really hard to come up with examples that support his view, but has fail to show any wide spead Christian practice that compares to killing ones daughter over sex or a face cloth.

 

 

I do get it, this is about validating some solid foundation built upon rock that you are better and righter than someone else based on religious beliefs or less reprehensible actions incurred through religious beliefs which is why it's ok to hate and kill them... I'm here to tell you you're wrong.

[wez]

Come on man. September 2001? You don't think maybe tensions were a little bit high in September 2001?

 

But either way, show me where this is Biblically based.

 

What, killing leaders and converting them to Christianity? She is quite the shock jock..

 

 

 

 

Cool quote, but and where does it incite violence?

 

How the f ck would he know and who is he decide how every individual should find God. It's quite egotistical if you ask me.. if that's cool.

 

 

 

Jerry Falwell is a loon, and not real high up on the "Christians listen to him" list. especially in quote that are 20 + years old.

 

Hahahaha.. He's a man of God and once a "respectable" Christian soldier..

 

 

 

Some guy sharing his opinion. Again, show me where this (or any of this) is biblically based, or even embraced by a multitude of Christians.

 

 

 

Just as I believe the majority of muslims really have no desire to conquer the world and subjugate people.

 

 

 

 

I dunno who Randall Terry is, but I can see why he isn't running for pres.

 

Apparently, a Christian terrorist with bad intentions for the US..

 

 

 

I'm sure there is some negative point to this one, I just don't get it. If Jesus comes back tomorrow it is gonna look pretty stupid to have bought a $50,000 impractical electric car yesterday- won't it? and who is Rondald Regan?

 

 

 

So why try to make the world better from a position of "power"? Jesus is on the way to condemn everyone who doesn't look/think like you..

[wez]

Whoops.. double post. Don't taze me bro! Hahahaha

 

 

Let's just use it to say... Whatever the truth as to the creation of humankind, it is the same truth for every human that will ever have existed and it will never be changed by what people think/say/do. The end.

[eddo]

Bottom line for me, you condemn them and their religion based on some peoples actions and beliefs, you condemn no one but yourself and your religion, unless you are God. That is the message I get from Jesus, and believe it.

 

uh-oh, best watch that hypocrisy level there wez....

 

Tom DeLay:

Ladies and gentlemen, Christianity offers the only viable, reasonable, definitive answer to the questions of 'Where did I come from?' 'Why am I here?' 'Where am I going?' 'Does life have any meaningful purpose?' Only Christianity offers a way to understand that physical and moral border. Only Christianity offers a comprehensive worldview that covers all areas of life and thought, every aspect of creation. Only Christianity offers a way to live in response to the realities that we find in this world -- only Christianity. ~ House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) at the First Baptist Church of Pearland, Texas, on April 12, 2002

How the f ck would he know and who is he decide how every individual should find God. It's quite egotistical if you ask me.. if that's cool.

 

That wasn't you judging and condemning someone for his beliefs, was it?

 

and you didn't answer where his quote at all incites violence. This is a person sharing his personal religious beliefs, and you jump his case for it- just like you think some are doing here to Islam.

 

But that isn't the case here. Fundamentalist Islam is wreaking havoc on our world. Yes, I said Fundamentalist Islam. This is the belief system that has the whackjobs that fly planes into buildings, strap bombs to children, and drive explosives into shopping centers. Honestly, wez. I cannot understand why you stand up for a belief system (again, talking Fundamentalist Islam here) that is so violent and deadly. It really makes no sense.

 

But even with the fundamentalists giving Islam a bad name- the moderate Islam followers aren't doing much better in creating a better name for themselves. Not speaking up against atrocities done in the name of Islam.

 

That is the point here.

 

As I proved at the beginning of top of this- we are all hypocrites (gasp! even you,) so lets move beyond that, please, and just focus on the issue at hand:

 

Fundie Islam wants to take over the world, and they are willing to kill everyone else in it to get what they want- heck, they are even willing to kill themselves to get it. This is bad news, and needs to be addressed- and unfortunately, telling these fundie- Islamics that "You need to play nice with everyone or you will go into timeout!" won't do a thing to curb their violence against others.

 

I am all for people believe in whatever they want, even if I believe something else, but when those beliefs start causing harm to others- simply because they believe something else- then it needs to be seriously looked at.

[wez]

uh-oh, best watch that hypocrisy level there wez....

 

 

Huh? What does judge not mean? What was Jesus saying?

 

That wasn't you judging and condemning someone for his beliefs, was it?

 

No.. That was me asking him/you how the f ck he would know and who is he to judge everyones method of finding God..

 

and you didn't answer where his quote at all incites violence. This is a person sharing his personal religious beliefs, and you jump his case for it- just like you think some are doing here to Islam.

 

 

I think this kind of thinking leads to acceptance of violence and/or murder when it is aimed at those who don't follow his road to salvation.

 

But that isn't the case here. Fundamentalist Islam is wreaking havoc on our world. Yes, I said Fundamentalist Islam. This is the belief system that has the whackjobs that fly planes into buildings, strap bombs to children, and drive explosives into shopping centers. Honestly, wez. I cannot understand why you stand up for a belief system (again, talking Fundamentalist Islam here) that is so violent and deadly. It really makes no sense.

 

I'm standing up for life and all people and take the stand that it's never ok to kill other people. I don't believe that eddo, I think that's what has been inferred to rally support for invading Iraq. I believe those wackjobs flew planes into buildings because they are tired of the US interfering in their lives and governments. We have been at it since the who knows when.. 50's maybe.

 

What do we expect when we dispose of leaders and install a puppet like we did in Iran with the Shaw in the 70's? They stormed and kidnapped people at our embassy.. Then we have our nose in the middle of the Iran/Iraq war, Kuwait, Iraq

 

Osama'a problem was really with his own oppressive government and since we basically keep them in power against the wishes of many of their own people, they sent some wacko's to fly planes into buildings. Not because they want to take over the world and subjugate you. They prolly see that in us, wouldn't you think? Who has the military base in who's country and are conducting wars all over their region and have been everpresent for the last 50 years with fancy killing tools? Think about it..

 

 

 

But even with the fundamentalists giving Islam a bad name- the moderate Islam followers aren't doing much better in creating a better name for themselves. Not speaking up against atrocities done in the name of Islam.

 

Like I said before, would you understand them if they did? Apparently some do.. I saw that post of papa's.. I doubt that person is the only one.. So, when we spend decade after decade interferring in others affairs, there could be some consequences. We should learn from our mistakes and let them forge their own future.

 

It's quite possible that we had a large hand in creating the "fundi's" as what we have done would naturally piss us off if on the other end of our actions and religious people naturally throughout history have always twisted their teachings to have God on their side when they feel the need to kill someone.

 

That is the point here.

 

As I proved at the beginning of top of this- we are all hypocrites (gasp! even you,) so lets move beyond that, please, and just focus on the issue at hand:

 

No, we are not all hypocrites.. How can you say that? Then you must think all Christians are condemned.. What does Jesus say will happen to hypocrites? What will their reward be? Or does that just make you feel better for choosing to continuously be one? Not everyone is like you eddo..

 

Fundie Islam wants to take over the world, and they are willing to kill everyone else in it to get what they want- heck, they are even willing to kill themselves to get it. This is bad news, and needs to be addressed- and unfortunately, telling these fundie- Islamics that "You need to play nice with everyone or you will go into timeout!" won't do a thing to curb their violence against others.

 

I am all for people believe in whatever they want, even if I believe something else, but when those beliefs start causing harm to others- simply because they believe something else- then it needs to be seriously looked at.

 

Again.. perhaps you might wanna think of their perspective of a constant US presence in their regions and affairs for their entire lives up to this point except for the oldest of their citizens.. Who's trying to take over the world?

 

I agree, it needs to be looked at, so we need to look at ourselves.. Do you think we may have had a hand in creating this mess or are we just innocent victims? Perhaps you should walk in their sandels for 50 years before you condemn them..

[snafu]

.....

 

But that isn't the case here. Fundamentalist Islam is wreaking havoc on our world. Yes, I said Fundamentalist Islam. This is the belief system that has the whackjobs that fly planes into buildings, strap bombs to children, and drive explosives into shopping centers. Honestly, wez. I cannot understand why you stand up for a belief system (again, talking Fundamentalist Islam here) that is so violent and deadly. It really makes no sense.

 

But even with the fundamentalists giving Islam a bad name- the moderate Islam followers aren't doing much better in creating a better name for themselves. Not speaking up against atrocities done in the name of Islam.

 

That is the point here.

 

As I proved at the beginning of top of this- we are all hypocrites (gasp! even you,) so lets move beyond that, please, and just focus on the issue at hand:

 

Fundie Islam wants to take over the world, and they are willing to kill everyone else in it to get what they want- heck, they are even willing to kill themselves to get it. This is bad news, and needs to be addressed- and unfortunately, telling these fundie- Islamics that "You need to play nice with everyone or you will go into timeout!" won't do a thing to curb their violence against others.

 

I am all for people believe in whatever they want, even if I believe something else, but when those beliefs start causing harm to others- simply because they believe something else- then it needs to be seriously looked at.

 

Exactly. Like a lot of Americans, I never gave Islam a second thought. It was to each their own. It took 9-11 to open my eyes. These people worship the destruction of themselves and others. This is a big big difference than anything we've experienced.

[snafu]

Muslim Rape, Feminist Silence

By Jamie Glazov

FrontPageMagazine. com | November 1, 2006

"unveiled women who get raped deserve it"

 

 

Muslim Rape, Feminist Silence Marked as: Mature

Everyday new statements are made public by prominent Muslims that do more damage to Islam then the west ever could.

 

Muslim Rape, Feminist Silence

By Jamie Glazov

FrontPageMagazine. com | November 1, 2006

"unveiled women who get raped deserve it"

 

That?s the Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali, who sparked an international stir by pronouncing that women who do not veil themselves, and allow themselves to be ?uncovered meat?, are at fault if they are raped. This is nothing new, of course, and it is somewhat mysterious why the Sheikh?s comments have caused any shock at all, since his view is legitimized by various Islamic texts and numerous social and legal Islamic structures. And that is why back in September 2004 in Denmark , al-Hilali?s Australian counterpart, the Mufti Shahid Mehdi, declared exactly the same thing, stating that unveiled women are ?asking for rape.?

 

All of this, in turn, explains the skyrocketing epidemic of Muslim rape in non-Islamic countries. Muslim newcomers are significantly overrepresented among convicted rapists and rape suspects throughout European nations such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Scandinavia.

 

No wonder why many Muslim rapists openly admit their actions and justify them smugly with casual references to their religious and cultural beliefs. This horrifying phenomenon was on display in a court trial in Australia last year , in which a Muslim rapist, going by the name ?MSK?, taunted his sobbing 14-year-old victim and proudly professed the legitimacy of his sexual assaults on young girls by explaining that his victims were not veiled ? as the Islamic religion mandates women to be. [1]

 

?MSK? is from Pakistan. He is doing in Australia what he learned best back home: in some of the most notorious rural areas of Pakistan, gang rape is officially sanctioned as a legitimate form of keeping women marginalized and ?in their place.? As noted earlier, certain realms of Islam help institutionalize this form of violent misogyny. The Koran, for instance, permits Muslim men to enslave - and have sexual relations with - the women of unbelievers captured in the spoils of war (Sura 4:23-24). The Islamic legal manual ?Umdat al-Salik, which is endorsed by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, sanctions this violence, affirming that Muslims can enslave captured infidel women and make them concubines.

 

To compound this pathology, a notion has developed within the system of gender apartheid in which Muslims like ?MSK? have grown up: the idea that a woman who does not veil herself is somehow responsible for any sexual or physical harm done to her. In the psychopathic mental gymnastics that occur in the perpetrators? minds, the unveiled woman must be sexually punished for violating the ?modesty? code. Thus, when Islamic Muftis like Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali and Shahid Mehdi declare that women who refuse to wear headscarves are ?asking for rape,? they are merely regurgitating a popular theme in many segments of Islamic culture.

 

In traditional Islamic law, rape cannot be proven unless four males testify as witnesses (Sura 24:4 and 24:13). In other words, raped women cannot get justice anywhere Islamic law prevails. More horrifying still, a woman who has the courage to say she was raped, and fails to produce the four male witnesses (which is obviously almost always the case), ends up being punished because her accusation is regarded as an admission of pre-marital sex or adultery. And this is why seventy-five percent of the women in prison in Pakistan are behind bars for the crime of being a victim of rape.

 

In Holland, myriad women now bear the horrible scar that has infamously become known as ?smiley,? whereby one side of the face is cut up from mouth to ear - a war mark left by Muslim rapists as a warning to other women who don?t veil themselves.

 

In France, the phenomenon of Muslim gang rape as punishment for non-veiling even has a word to describe it: ?tournante? (take your turn). In areas where Muslims form the majority (i.e. the Muslim suburb of Courneuve, France), even non-Muslim women feel pressured to veil themselves in fear of Muslim sexual and physical punishment.

 

In the context of this epidemic of Muslim violence against women, and the open legitimization of it pronounced by Islamic clerics, one would think that the Western feminists of our time would be up in arms, sympathetically coming to the side of their raped sisters and standing up for women?s rights in general.

 

But this is just not the case.

 

The West?s leftist feminists are responding with an apathetic heartlessness and deafening silence. [2]

 

It?s all very much understandable and expected, of course: it is politically correct and cutting-edge to scream with moral indignation about a woman?s right to an abortion in the West, but to actually care for - and come to the public defense of - the female victim of a gang-rape committed by Muslims is unthinkable . This is so because admitting the Muslim rape epidemic, and the theology and institutions on which it is based, and denouncing it, would violate the central code of the ?progressive? leftist faith: anti-Americanism and cultural relativism. No culture can be said to be better than any other - unless it is American culture, which is always fair game for derision and ridicule. But to criticize any Third World culture in general - and an adversary culture in particular - is to surrender the political cause and faith.

 

The worldview of Oslo Professor of Anthropology, Dr. Unni Wikan, is perfect in representing leftist feminists? stand on Muslim rape and Islamic gender apartheid. Wikan?s solution for the high incidence of Muslims raping Norwegian women stresses neither the punishment of the perpetrators nor the repudiation of the Islamic theology that legitimizes such abuse of women. Instead, Wikan recommends that Norwegian women veil themselves. This is because, in Wikan?s view, Western women must take their share of responsibility for the rapes, since they are not dressing and behaving according to Muslim understanding. The Norwegian women, in her view, are to realize that they live in a multicultural society and should, therefore, adapt themselves to it. Sheikhs Taj al-Din al-Hilali and Shahid Mehdi would be proud.

 

It has long been evident that Western leftist feminists couldn?t care less about real actual breathing women; they care only about their ideological beliefs. For them, the victims of Muslim rape can be easily forgotten and dismissed ? for the pursuit of their ultimate goal: to aid and abet the West?s totalitarian enemies and to wreak the destruction of their own free societies which bestow the individual liberties and rights that they despise and abhor.

 

NOTES:

 

[1] Although debate exists about whether Islam enforces women?s veiling, and there are some valiant Islamic reformers fighting for a tolerant Islam that does not enforce veiling, the unfortunate reality is that Muslim fundamentalists find legitimacy for forced veiling in Islamic texts. See Robert Spencer?s Onward Muslim Soldiers, pp. 77-78 and his new book The Truth About Mohammad, pp. 44 and 61.

 

[2] Dr. Phyllis Chesler has powerfully documented Western feminism?s betrayal of Islamic gender apartheid?s victims in The Death of Feminism.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Oh, come on. These same people kill burglars, cut the hands off of thieves, and murder homosexuals.

 

As Texans go, this is Paradise.

[timesjoke]

Oh, come on. These same people kill burglars, cut the hands off of thieves, and murder homosexuals.

 

As Texans go, this is Paradise.

 

And have the lowest crime rates in the world on the whole.

 

 

I have less issues with their having strict, and even deadly standards in their own Countries, I am sure we have beliefs and laws that shock them, my only real issue in general is how once they have some big numbers, they start pushing the local governments to change enough to allow them to do things that are not acceptable prior to their comming there.

 

Rioting, raping, running radical, anti-western schools and "camps". They don't want to "fit in" to the societies they move to, they want to take these new places over, with force if neccessary.

[wez]

And have the lowest crime rates in the world on the whole.

 

 

I have less issues with their having strict, and even deadly standards in their own Countries, I am sure we have beliefs and laws that shock them, my only real issue in general is how once they have some big numbers, they start pushing the local governments to change enough to allow them to do things that are not acceptable prior to their comming there.

 

Rioting, raping, running radical, anti-western schools and "camps". They don't want to "fit in" to the societies they move to, they want to take these new places over, with force if neccessary.

 

 

 

You should move there.. I bet you'd find most people just want to be left alone and live a happy, safe, relatively comfortable life rather than murder people and take over western society. Prolly appears to many in those regions that someone, us, wants to do to them what you accuse them of doing to you and yours.

[timesjoke]

You should move there.. I bet you'd find most people just want to be left alone and live a happy, safe, relatively comfortable life rather than murder people and take over western society. Prolly appears to many in those regions that someone, us, wants to do to them what you accuse them of doing to you and yours.

 

Like they were understanding with the teacher who let the kids name a teddybear muhamid(sp?)?

 

Muslime Countries would never allow outside people come in and change their societies the way their doing in western societies.

 

Everywhere they are getting strong, they are fighting the norms of the society to change it, like the woman asking all non-muslim women to wear veils to avoid being raped by muslim males who migrated into their country.

 

They are even trying to get parts of sharia law enacted in Canada because in Canada, christians and jews are allowed to have family law run by the churches if they want it, muslims are demanding the same right.

[snafu]

In Holland, myriad women now bear the horrible scar that has infamously become known as “smiley,” whereby one side of the face is cut up from mouth to ear - a war mark left by Muslim rapists as a warning to other women who don’t veil themselves.

 

 

"A smiley? A smiley?" WTF?

It seems that if you're a Muslim women you can't be just left alone. If your a women and even if you do cover your face you could be raped, given a smiley and nothing would happen to the men raping her unless there were 4 other men not raping her to testify for her. That doesn’t sound like being left alone to me.

[Anna Perenna]

The church may have tried to cover it up, but many, many Catholics made, and continue to make, public statements against it.

 

Lumping all Catholic followers into the "we" of the 'Catholic Church' is wrong, don't you know that? I guess I was wrong when I assumed that we were all adult enough to not do that here...

 

Like I said-- You would be hard pressed to find many Muslims that speak out against suicide bombers and/or the atrocities being perpetrated by Islamic Fundamentalists. I don't know if those that don't speak out are scared, don't speak out because of their faith, agree with it, or what exactly- but they (those that don't speak out) don't speak out. It can lead to assumptions that they (those that don't speak out against it) are ok with it, since they (those that don't speak out) don't speak out.

 

I hope that makes better sense now.

 

To be fair, have you ever seen a journalist genuinely and without bias ask a (normal, non-extremist, American) muslim/group of muslims their opinion on this topic?

 

Or have you ever asked a muslim their opinion on this topic?

 

I personally haven't read any article where a group of normal, non-extremist muslims have openly supported terrorism. Nobody here has been able to provide a link to one, either.

 

So as you point out, all you are left with is assumptions.

 

And because the majority of Westerners are afraid of muslims, you assume the worst.

 

I understand that it's human nature to feel this way, but that doesn't make it correct.

 

To get this debate back on track, this is how I see it:

 

Prior to the seventh century, their were no moslems, and there were no moslem countries. Today there are probably 20+ moslem countries.

 

Now, no one ever said to moslems - here is a country no one wants, you can have it if you want. Every country they have, they have taken by force or coercion.

 

Mohammed and his buddies murdered Jews, Christians and probably other groups at a place called Medina. And so the conquest spread in this fashion.

 

From having no country, they now have many, and it is violence that has gotten them what they want.

 

They see clearly that violence pays. If they think they can win by force, they go straight to force. If they see they cannot, they agitate to win concessions while they wait for the position to improve.

 

There is no such thing as peaceful cohabitation with moslems. They hate Jews, Christians, Hindus, Seihks, Buddhists, Atheists and any other religious group not their own.

 

Have you never heard of the Crusades?

 

How do you think Christianity started?

[snafu]

To be fair, have you ever seen a journalist genuinely and without bias ask a muslim/group of muslims their opinion on this topic?

 

Or have you ever asked a muslim their opinion on this topic?

 

I personally haven't read any article where a group of muslims has openly supported terrorism. Nobody here has been able to provide a link to one, either.

 

So as you point out, all you are left with is assumptions.

 

And because the majority of Westerners are afraid of muslims, you assume the worst.

 

I understand that it's human nature to feel this way, but that doesn't make it correct.

 

 

Have you never heard of the Crusades?

 

How do you think Christianity started?

 

Anna come on. We're talking about this day and age. No other religion is advocating violence like Islam is. Sure we shouldn't lump them all together. But until we can stop this type of jihad we must be leary of all Muslims. Yes I assume the worst. Just look around you.

[Anna Perenna]

Actually, I don't want to get into a debate about this. You either understand and agree with me, or you don't, and no amount of effort on my part will change that.

 

So, to sum up:

 

Yes, many Muslims around the world are violent. They suicide bomb, they call jihads, etc etc, etc

 

On the other hand, many Americans (a Christian country) are violent. In their own country they serial kill, they murder one another frequently, they rape and beat women, and a lot of them carry guns, etc, etc, etc

 

They also like to invade and bomb and take over other countries.

 

So basically Muslims + Americans = just as bad as eachother.

 

What it all ever boils down to is a game of "but they started it" or "the WAY they do it is wrong" or "they look different and speak a different language and I don't understand them so even though they want to kill me just like I want to kill them, they must be evil and I must be right".

 

You hate them, they hate you. Fair's fair.

[snafu]

Actually, I don't want to get into a debate about this. You either understand and agree with me, or you don't, and no amount of effort on my part will change that.

 

So, to sum up:

 

Yes, many Muslims around the world are violent. They suicide bomb, they call jihads, etc etc, etc

 

On the other hand, many Americans (a Christian country) are violent. In their own country they serial kill, they murder one another frequently, they rape and beat women, and a lot of them carry guns, etc, etc, etc

 

They also like to invade and bomb and take over other countries.

 

So basically Muslims + Americans = just as bad as eachother.

 

What it all ever boils down to is a game of "but they started it" or "the WAY they do it is wrong" or "they look different and speak a different language and I don't understand them so even though they want to kill me just like I want to kill them, they must be evil and I must be right".

 

You hate them, they hate you. Fair's fair.

 

 

It?s all very much understandable and expected, of course: it is politically correct and cutting-edge to scream with moral indignation about a woman?s right to an abortion in the West, but to actually care for - and come to the public defense of - the female victim of a gang-rape committed by Muslims is unthinkable . This is so because admitting the Muslim rape epidemic, and the theology and institutions on which it is based, and denouncing it, would violate the central code of the ?progressive? leftist faith: anti-Americanism and cultural relativism. No culture can be said to be better than any other - unless it is American culture, which is always fair game for derision and ridicule. But to criticize any Third World culture in general - and an adversary culture in particular - is to surrender the political cause and faith.

 

No we aren't as bad. I think you're falling into this category.

[Anna Perenna]

No we aren't as bad. I think you're falling into this category.

 

Sorry but you are. Look at the rape statistics in the USA:

 

Every Two and a Half Minutes | Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network

 

There are cases of American soldiers who are rapists, too. Don't forget that.

 

By the way, please don't try and turn this into an American bashing thing. I hate the Muslim men who kill and rape, too. But it's only fair to hate all killers and rapists equally, as your little snippet points out.

[Anna Perenna]

I also despise Australians (and any person of any other nationality) who kill, to pip that one in the post before anyone jumps on it.

[snafu]

Your absolutely right. America has the scum of the earth in its presents.

 

But I didn't even look at the statistics you posted only because it wouldn't be fair. We can't get statics of rape murder and pimping from a Islamic nation like we can from America and Australia. That's the point. These women have to hide in shame from being raped. We only get a glimpse of there atrocities.

[snafu]

And Western laws prohibits this while Islamic law welcomes it.

[Anna Perenna]

Your absolutely right. America has the scum of the earth in its presents.

 

But I didn't even look at the statistics you posted only because it wouldn't be fair. We can't get statics of rape murder and pimping from a Islamic nation like we can from America and Australia. That's the point. These women have to hide in shame from being raped. We only get a glimpse of there atrocities.

 

 

Ok, good point. I personally feel that Islamic women are more oppressed than Western women, too.

 

But just because their justice system isn't the same as ours it doesn't mean the type and frequency of their rapes are any worse than ours - and Western rape stats are awful.

 

And bear in mind that a reported rape doesn't necessarily equate to the rapist being convicted and punished accordingly.

[timesjoke]

The point you are missing Anna is there are degrees.

 

While a rape in America and a rape in Iran would be the same or similar at the time it happened, the social barriers a woman must face are completely different. In America, the woman can report the crime and even without much evidence, at least the cops will try to build a case against the attacker and arrest him.

 

In any muslim controlled Country, the woman can only report it if she has 4 men to side with her against the man in question and even with that, she is considered soiled from that moment on.

 

If you thing rape is under reported in America, what do you think is happening with them?

 

 

 

No, in reality, a muslim woman being raped is much, much worse in comparison because or how completely alone she is after the fact.

 

 

But, their society is their society, I don't like what they do to women but when they bring those attitudes into the western world and start doing things like rioting and raping unveiled women, this I see as a huge problem to our societies.

 

 

We cannot say that just because America has a few rapes that it stopps us from being able to complain about their rapes and the worse attached social penalties for complaining about the rape. Just because the rare skinhead does something violent, that does not mean we cannot point out that violence is the norm, not the exception in muslim societies.

 

Americans and western people in general do not target children and other innocents for violence on purpose, muslims on the other hand believe children are the prefered target for their violent attacks.

 

 

Yes, Christians and athiests do bad things, but you cannot compare "modern" events, there is just no real comparison. Look at the many riots in France, or the gang rapes in Australia, the terrorist attacks like 9/11 and many lesser terrorist attacks on children all over the world, the writing is on the wall, it is our decision to read it or ignore it.

[wez]

The point you are missing Anna is there are degrees.

 

While a rape in America and a rape in Iran would be the same or similar at the time it happened, the social barriers a woman must face are completely different. In America, the woman can report the crime and even without much evidence, at least the cops will try to build a case against the attacker and arrest him.

 

In any muslim controlled Country, the woman can only report it if she has 4 men to side with her against the man in question and even with that, she is considered soiled from that moment on.

 

If you thing rape is under reported in America, what do you think is happening with them?

 

 

 

No, in reality, a muslim woman being raped is much, much worse in comparison because or how completely alone she is after the fact.

 

 

But, their society is their society, I don't like what they do to women but when they bring those attitudes into the western world and start doing things like rioting and raping unveiled women, this I see as a huge problem to our societies.

 

 

We cannot say that just because America has a few rapes that it stopps us from being able to complain about their rapes and the worse attached social penalties for complaining about the rape. Just because the rare skinhead does something violent, that does not mean we cannot point out that violence is the norm, not the exception in muslim societies.

 

Americans and western people in general do not target children and other innocents for violence on purpose, muslims on the other hand believe children are the prefered target for their violent attacks.

 

 

Yes, Christians and athiests do bad things, but you cannot compare "modern" events, there is just no real comparison. Look at the many riots in France, or the gang rapes in Australia, the terrorist attacks like 9/11 and many lesser terrorist attacks on children all over the world, the writing is on the wall, it is our decision to read it or ignore it.

 

Do you really need to dig this deep to validate invading the middle east and murdering people for natural resources?

[hugo]

Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden

 

By Fjordman

 

Swedish girls Malin and Amanda were on their way to a party on New Year?s Eve when they were assaulted, raped and beaten half to death by four Somali immigrants. Sweden?s largest newspaper has presented the perpetrators as ?two men from Sweden, one from Finland and one from Somalia?, a testimony as to how bad the informal censorship is in stories related to immigration in Sweden. Similar incidents are reported with shocking frequency, to the point where some observers fear that law and order is completely breaking down in the country. The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six - 6 - times as common today as they were a generation ago. Most other kinds of violent crime have rapidly increased, too. Instability is spreading to most urban and suburban areas.

 

According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Br?, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population than any other country in northern Europe. The numbers there are likely to be at least as bad as with its Scandinavian neighbors. The actual number is thus probably even higher than what the authorities are reporting now, as it doesn?t include second generation immigrants. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm, who has investigated violent crimes in Svea high court, found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents.

 

A group of Swedish teenage girls has designed a belt that requires two hands to remove and which they hope will deter would-be rapists. ?It?s like a reverse chastity belt,? one of the creators, 19-year-old Nadja Bj?rk, told AFP, meaning that the wearer is in control, instead of being controlled. Bj?rk and one of her partners now plan to start a business to mass produce the belts and are currently in negotiations with potential partners. ?But I?m not doing this for the money,? she said. ?I?m really passionate about stopping rape. I think it?s terrible.? In an online readers? poll from the newspaper Aftonbladet, 82% of the women expressed fear to go outside after dark. There are reports of rapes happening in broad daylight. 30 guests in a Swedish public bath watched as 17 girl was raped recently, and nobody did anything. The girl was first approached by 16-year-old boy. He and his friends followed her as she walked away to the grotto, and inside the grotto he got her blocked in the corner, ripped off her bikini and raped her, while his friend held her firm.

 

There are even reports of Swedish girls being attacked and cut with knives on the dance floor. A 21-year-old man who came to Sweden a couple of years ago admits that he has a low opinion of Swedish females ?or ?whores? as he calls them. He is now prosecuted, suspecteded of cutting eight girls in several pubs. He is also charged with raping a girl at a private party, and with sexually harassing another girl in the apartment. Several witnesses claim that the 21 year old has said that he hates Swedish women.

 

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are ?asking for rape.? Apparently, he?s not the only one thinking this way. ?It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,? says Hamid. ?The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably ed before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.? It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne ? this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. ?It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore?? girl, I mean;? says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. ?Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That?s what I am going to do. I don?t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get ed to pieces.?

 

The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western nations are so extremely high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles warfare. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. Western women are not so much regarded by most Muslims as individuals, but as ?their women,? the women who ?belong? to hostile Infidels. They are booty, to be taken, just as the land of the Infidels someday will drop, it is believed, into Muslim hand. This is not mere crime, but ideologically-justified crime or rather, in Muslim eyes, attacks on Infidels scarcely qualify as crime. Western women are cheap and offensive. We Muslims are here, here to stay, and we have a right to take advantage of this situation. It is our view of the matter that should prevail. Western goods, like the land on which we now live, belong to Allah and to the best of men?his Believers. Western women, too, essentially belong to us?our future booty. No wonder there is a deep and increasing suspicion against Muslims in the Swedish and European public.

[hugo]

White Women the Victims In Over 90% of Interracial

Rapes

 

 

"When whites do violence - rape, murder, assault - how often do they choose black victims? Shouldn’t a nation of bigots target blacks most of the time? At least half of the time? Of course, it does not. When whites commit violence, they do it to blacks 2.4 percent of the time. Blacks, on the other hand, choose white victims more than half the time. (n.317)

 

In those cases in which the race of the killer is known, blacks kill twice as many whites as whites kill blacks. Black-on-white robberies and gang assaults are twenty-one times more common than white on black. In the case of gang robbery, blacks victimize whites fifty-two times more often than whites do blacks. (n318)

 

The contrasts are even more stark in the case of interracial rape. Studies from the late 1950s showed that the vast majority of rapes were same-race offenses. Research in Philadelphia carried out in 1958 and 1960 indicated that of all rapes, only 3.2 percent were black-on-white assaults and 3.6 percent were white-on-black. Since that time, the proportion of black-on-white rapes has soared. In a 1974 study in Denver, 40 percent of all rapes were of whites by blacks, and not one case of white-on-black rape was found. In general, through the 1970s, black-on-white rape was at least ten times more common that white-on-black rape. (n.319)

 

Because interracial rape is now overwhelmingly black on white, it has become difficult to do research on it or to find relevant statistics. The FBI keeps very detailed national records on crime, but the way it presents rape data obscures the racial element rather than clarifies it. Dr. William Wilbanks, a criminologist at Florida International University, had to sift carefully through the data to find that in 1988 there were 9,406 cases of black-on-white rape and fewer than ten cases of white-on-black rape. (n.320) Another researcher concludes that in 1989, blacks were three or four times more likely to commit rape than whites, and that black men raped white women thirty times as often as white men raped black women.(n.321)

 

Interracial crime figures are even worse than they sound. Since there are more than six times as many whites as blacks in America, it means that any given black person is vastly more likely to commit a crime against a white than vice versa."

 

So now we have to ask is Europe's rape problem primarily due to their immigrants race or their religion.

 

Whatever happened to the feminists? Where did they go?