The war on drugs ..

[timesjoke]

TJ you might not see the need for recreational drugs but probably 80% of the worlds population dose. It's not going away anytime soon.

 

Like my mom used to say, you don't have to jump off a cliff just because everyone else is.

 

I doubt that 80% of the population does drugs, hell, % of the worlds population cannot even get a steady meal or shoes on their feet.

 

But, even if they did, who cares? I do not decide what is moral or right based on how many people there are doing or wanting something.

 

 

Like Jhony, I did all kinds of drugs in my younger days. It was the norm back then were I'm from. I'm not proud of it but it is what it is. I used my God given will power to quit them.

 

So you were very bad before and now just a little bad and somehow that makes it alright?

 

What if someone used to kill people but now only maims them, does that make it okay?

 

The degree your breaking the law or being a stoner does not matter.

 

The first step to the war on drugs would be to realize that making marijuana federally legal would save the taxpayers money. Your doing nothing more than putting people in jail for self indulgents and your paying for it.

 

Just like cocain and heroin, we are fighting drug incursion to our youth, and all numbers and studies are showing a slow, but consistant victory in that area. I don't care so much for the adults that throw away their lives, I am mostly concerned for kids and by making something as bad as pot acceptable, we will have given up our future.

 

Money used on enforcement and incarceration alone can help to fight the war on drugs that do have an adverse effect on society. Like Crack, meth and the opiates.

 

All recreational drugs have a very severe effect on society, some estimates show millions of pot smokers on welfare because their too lazy from the drugs to get a job for example.

 

If marijuana were federally legal I would grow it for my own consumption and mind my own business. I would probably buy it commercially if I had to but would rather grow it.

I don't buy pot because I have a friend that grows his own for his own consumption. He gives it to me but even that's illegal. Who are we hurting?

 

So would everyone else, pot is easier to grow than weeds and the minute pot was made legal, every home that wanted it would have it inside two months and this is why I feel there will be an explosion of drug dependant people to a degree most cannot even imagine.

 

 

 

We can go in circles but what is the point?

 

You know pot is harmful, you guys even admit it effects mental abilities so why would any parent want their kids smoking it? I am a parent, I do not have the luxery of just giving up and letting my kids be victims of recreational drugs without a fight.

 

There is not one redeeming quality of recreational drugs for society.

 

As you guys keep pointing out, anyone with some caution can get all the pot they want without ever getting in trouble, so making it legal would not change anything for you. We are only catching the stupid ones, and to be honest, I like taking the stupid ones off the streets, maybe they won't breed as much and this will indirectly improve the gene pool.

[snafu]

I just threw out 80% because you and me could never prove the exact percentage seeing how people have to go under ground to partake. You don’t have to jump off any cliff just acknowledge that it is here to stay and that we will never win the war on drugs. I stated my life style only to put into perspective of my knowledge of what Jhony already stated. All recreational drugs do have an effect on society but not a profound one. The fact that people are incarcerated for marijuana charges, clogging up our judicial system is profound. If everyone else would concur with me as to wanting to grow his or her own, what’s the problem then? It wouldn't hurt a soul. You would still have legal age laws. It would take pot that's sold from the same dealer with the crack and meth off the streets.

The subject of our children is entirely different. I would not want our young, dropping acid, eating ecstasy, smoking crack and meth or even pot. The simple fact is that these highly dangerous drugs are readily available to our young. In your frame of mine wouldn't you want prohibition back? Shouldn't alcohol be illegal? Shouldn't cigarettes be illegal? Shouldn't coffee be illegal? Shouldn't we just get rid of McDonald's and all the rest of the junk that people put in their bodies?

 

PS: I make 80 grand a year, I have two cars, a $10,000 bike, a $240,000.00 house so I don't live in my moms basement.

[ImWithStupid]

I personally know of several people who are either business owners, community leaders, or have prominent positions in my community that partake in the use of marijuana, and presumably more. I however will not say that this is a predominate portion of our local community.

 

I will say that in my experience, the percentage of those those that use pot in "reputable" jobs compared to those that don't and those that work in blue collar jobs or the service industry that use pot compared to those that don't is roughly the same.

[Anna Perenna]

I've been growing my own marijuana since I was 17. My mother (who incidentally is a saintly atheist who has been working in hospices and dedicating her entire life to helping others) is an excellent green thumb and she helped me.

 

She makes the best hash cakes and cookies in the world. They're delicious and everyone loves them. She takes pride in her cannabis culinary expertise.

 

I smoke joints with friends at dinner parties on average once a week. I also have a bong + Buffy fest with my housemate at least once a month.

 

My housemate is a successful model and jewellery maker.

 

I own the equivalent of three businesses.

 

I have three friends from high school with Phds. They smoke joints occasionally, and drink copious amounts of wine every night.

 

All of my other successful friends are either functioning alcoholics (in my sarcastic terms) or pot smokers, or they take other recreational drugs.

 

None of us are stupid, unemployed, or even remotely typical of the people described in the snippets of quotes I can see of TJ's posts.

 

I don't know what the drug culture is like in America, but in Australia it's a huge part of the everyday lifestyle. I'd say at least half the adults in this country are either pissed or stoned on any given day.

 

And our country is doing just fine economically.

[Jhony5]

I just threw out 80% because you and me could never prove the exact percentage seeing how people have to go under ground to partake.

 

It would seem to me that most people drink alcohol at least occasionally/socially, if not habitually. I worked groceries for 10 years and witnessed countless thousands of drugs transactions via the checkout lane.

 

Alcohol is a drug. One that I do not partake in.

[wez]

It would seem to me that most people drink alcohol at least occasionally/socially, if not habitually. I worked groceries for 10 years and witnessed countless thousands of drugs transactions via the checkout lane.

 

Alcohol is a drug. One that I do not partake in.

 

By far and away the most harmful drug out there.

[hugo]

By far and away the most harmful drug out there.

 

The one that causes the most harm would be more accurate. Moderate use of alcohol actually increases lifespans.

[hugo]

 

Alcohol is a drug. One that I do not partake in.

 

Sucks to be you.

[Jhony5]

Sucks to be you.

 

Meh....I had my days with the drink. I haven't had a drop in years. It just makes me feel poisoned, sick to my stomach as soon as I drink any. I know one thing for sure; I have never knelled in front of a toilet stewing in my own vomitous juices for hours on end after smoking pot.

 

I do have issue with the way alcohol is advertised. People crack open a Coors and a silver train of cool refreshment rushes in and big boobed bimbos start dancing around. Alls fun on that side.

 

For every god damned ignorant "fun" beer commercial that gets made, it should be law that they should have to make a commercial showing what usually happens when people drink. No silver train of refreshment. No well endowed cheerleaders. Just a guy in a stained wife-beater T-shirt crashing his car into a family of four while pissing his pants.

[hugo]

Meh....I had my days with the drink. I haven't had a drop in years. It just makes me feel poisoned, sick to my stomach as soon as I drink any. I know one thing for sure; I have never knelled in front of a toilet stewing in my own vomitous juices for hours on end after smoking pot.

 

I do have issue with the way alcohol is advertised. People crack open a Coors and a silver train of cool refreshment rushes in and big boobed bimbos start dancing around. Alls fun on that side.

 

For every god damned ignorant "fun" beer commercial that gets made, it should be law that they should have to make a commercial showing what usually happens when people drink. No silver train of refreshment. No well endowed cheerleaders. Just a guy in a stained wife-beater T-shirt crashing his car into a family of four while pissing his pants.

 

Using a cell phone while driving is more dangerous than driving at the legal limit. Cell Phone Use as Dangerous as Drunken Driving

[wez]

Using a cell phone while driving is more dangerous than driving at the legal limit. Cell Phone Use as Dangerous as Drunken Driving

 

 

Obviously written by a dumbass.. there's no way, but it is dangerous..

[hugo]

Obviously written by a dumbass.. there's no way, but it is dangerous..

 

 

No, what has happened is the legal limit for alcohol consumption and driving has been reduced to a ridiculously low level. It ain't the people with .08 who are killing themselves and others.

[timesjoke]

By far and away the most harmful drug out there.

I agree completely but what most people fail to understand is the reason there is so much harm connected to drinking is the fact it is acceptable in society.

 

As Jhony pointed out, the commercials play a part as well. You can walk on the beach or watch a baseball game with a beer in your hand and nobody will pay you any attention at all.

 

Any drug with that level of acceptance in society will be heavily abused, and this is my point.

 

 

You guys can "claim" to know successful people who smoke pot but then we see their models or jewelery makers, again, very low intelligence jobs. Sure, low smarts jobe can pay very well and I do understand that, but you guys are confusing monetary gain with my point of pot inhibiting mental strength and on top of that, I still say there are exceptions.

 

We are talking about society in general, not a few exceptions. I agree many of you are smart and well spoken, many very successful people do drugs, but why put more barriers in front of our children then they already have?

 

I will say this again, even Jhony and some others have admitted pot is bad for kids, the more acceptable a drug is to society, the more likely children will want to do it. They see grownups drink, they want to drink. Children of smokers are 70 times more likely to smoke themselves. Children will likely emulate their environment.

 

 

It is hard to soar with eagles when your hanging out with a bunch of turkeys.

[hugo]

It to do it. They see grownups drink, they want to drink. Children of smokers are 70 times more likely to smoke themselves.

 

You better check that stat again. This would mean that if 100% of smokers' children smoked that non-smokers children would have a rate of less than 1.5%.

[Jhony5]

Obviously written by a dumbass.. there's no way, but it is dangerous..

 

I was almost killed just 5 weeks ago by a taxi driver on his cell phone. He started to turn left in front of me not 20 feet before I went across the intersection. I had to make a wild, screeching cut off the road and between two trees to avoid a head-on impact. It was the kind of error wherein you could tell that he was thinking purely about his conversation instead of driving. I guess he thought I had to stop at a light/stop sign that wasn't even there.

 

This is purely anecdotal, but yes, cell phones are extremely dangerous in many cases.

 

As Jhony pointed out, the commercials play a part as well. You can walk on the beach or watch a baseball game with a beer in your hand and nobody will pay you any attention at all.

There is no reason why alcohol should be allowed to be advertised at all. I don't think it should be abolished, but it shouldn't be advertised. You are right, people become jaded as to what it really is, a drug.

 

I cannot count how many alcoholics I have hung out with that start preaching to me about my pot use; "I can't believe how much money you guys spend on that stuff". A guy said this to me at my clubs 4th of July bash last year. However, I drove the drunks to the store (Because they were all drunk) to get more ice. I swear, they spent $80 on ice that weekend. Just for ice for only 12 people. Now that $80 doesn't count the cost of the 6 cases of beer, 2 fifths of whiskey, and 1 fifth of Cuervo (The weekend supply).

 

The small group of stoners (6 of us) probably each spent $30-$40 that weekend on our drug of choice. Whats more is we were 4-wheeling and catfishing very late into the next morning, while the drunks were either passed out or throwing up.

[timesjoke]

You better check that stat again. This would mean that if 100% of smokers' children smoked that non-smokers children would have a rate of less than 1.5%.

 

I have no idea what your talking about, most of the time your fairly easy to understand so maybe this is my fault but either way, I don't know how to reply.

 

 

Children of smoking parents are 70 times more likely to smoke then non-smoking parents (this means children who are raised in non-smoking homes are less likely to smoke themselves). Children of drunks have a similar tendancy to be drunks, a dad beating mom will also tend to pass this activity on to his son, a woman is more likely to have children out of wedlock if her mother did the same.

 

Do you see a pattern forming?

 

 

Playing dressup is not the only way children mimic adults.

 

 

My point is children learn from what they see in their home and society. What is considered acceptable to adults they see will tend to be acceptable to them.

 

 

Again, were talking in general, I understand there are exceptions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jhony,

 

I see your point but this is the problem with making something legal. By saying it is okay to drink, you now put it in the same catagory with radios and burgers, just another comodity business want to sell.

 

Drinking is popular because it is a legal recreational drug accepted in all areas of society, sipping wine at a thousand dollars a bottle or pouring five dollar wine on the ground for your "homies".

 

This is what will happen with any legal recreational drug.

 

 

Let's consider all the brancing business opportunities the second pot becomes legal. First of all, the home growing market will explode, with even Wal-Mart selling grow lights. Then there are the seeds, all the special kinds to select from, we can have special treatments and even special compost. Then there is smoking methods, sure head shops are around but once everything is legal, now evaryone needs a bong or designer pipe.

 

Then will start the foods. Brownies will be the first obvious product but many other products will flood the market all fighting for superiority. Them I am sure television would not want to be sitting around wasting their chance to cash in on the new legal pot. I can imagine pot smoking shows, reviews and even contests for who can produce the largest crop or some other reality show garbage.

 

No, don't think pot will escape the marketing blitz beer gets now.

 

 

I'm just wondering if we can get the horses stoned for the superbowl commercials, that would be funny.

[hugo]

I

 

Children of smoking parents are 70 times more likely to smoke then non-smoking parents

 

Basic math:

 

Assume 100% of smokers children also smoke. 100% divided by 70 equals 1.43%. Your stat is clearly wrong. I am certain more than one nonsmokers kid out of 70 smokes.

[timesjoke]

Basic math:

 

Assume 100% of smokers children also smoke. 100% divided by 70 equals 1.43%. Your stat is clearly wrong. I am certain more than one nonsmokers kid out of 70 smokes.

 

Where your math is faulty is your trying to force an impossible number into it and looking at it from the wrong direction.

 

The children of smokers are more likely to smoke than the children of non-smoking parents. Ther number is huge because part of the smoking addiction is learned from environment. Most of the time it is learned from parents or other family member in the home, the next most common place is friends, if the person's friends smoke, then there is a chance they will pick it up from them.

 

 

 

Again, your getting hung up on one point that is confusing you and I see your point, but your missing the point that children learn from their environment and if we present to them things like drinking and smoking being acceptable behavoirs, there is a high possibility our children will do these things as well.

 

 

This goes to one of my main reasons for not wanting any more legal recreational drugs. By making them acceptable in society, we doom our children to use them, even abuse them just like we do with things like drinking.

[Jhony5]

This goes to one of my main reasons for not wanting any more legal recreational drugs. By making them acceptable in society, we doom our children to use them, even abuse them just like we do with things like drinking.

 

Don't you think that there is a huge difference between making something "acceptable", and just making it so we don't lock people in cages?

 

I never said, nor have many other people (NORML included), anything about wanting to see marijuana advertised with the same flagrant disregard for responsibility that alcohol is.

 

We just don't want people getting thrown in a cage with robbers and crooks, having their property taken and their lives destroyed over god damn plant.

 

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"

 

Right?

 

Wrong.

 

We need some perspective. As a society we have to keep law and order in even keel. Akin to imprisoning people for months because they speed a little. Or chopping off hands for petty theft. The punishment should fit the crime. Not cause more social damage than the crime itself.

[timesjoke]

Don't you think that there is a huge difference between making something "acceptable", and just making it so we don't lock people in cages?

 

I never said, nor have many other people (NORML included), anything about wanting to see marijuana advertised with the same flagrant disregard for responsibility that alcohol is.

 

But this will be the result no matter if your asking for it or not. You don't want the booze ads but their happening anyway being a great proof of my point.

 

 

The second you make it legal, you make it acceptable, one goes hand in hand with the other.

 

 

 

 

We just don't want people getting thrown in a cage with robbers and crooks, having their property taken and their lives destroyed over god damn plant.

 

But your missing the entire point.

 

Your not being thrown into jail because of a plant, your being thrown in jail for breaking a law you clearly know about. The pot does not force you to break the law. Even if you say your compelled by an addiction to chase pot, then it is your addiction, not the pot itself that caused the problem.

 

If you "choose" to break the law, you decide the risk is worth it.

 

We need some perspective. As a society we have to keep law and order in even keel. Akin to imprisoning people for months because they speed a little. Or chopping off hands for petty theft. The punishment should fit the crime. Not cause more social damage than the crime itself.

 

Now your talking about perspective. You see getting stoned as the same as speeding, I don't. Thankfully, our lawmakers agree with me in this case so I can be happy about that.

 

You want your illegal drug so your attacking the system that restricts your access to it. This is nothing new, all illegal drug users all say the exact same thing.

 

All criminals say it to be honest, we all see our own crimes as less damaging than what the other guy is doing because we are looking at it with our "me" glasses on.

 

I definately do not see the arguement af "less" harm, in fact, the very assumption of it being "safe" is what will make it spread like wildfire the second it is made legal.

[Feckless Wench]

If marijuana were legal, would it be as attractive to the youth?

[snafu]

If marijuana were legal, would it be as attractive to the youth?

 

No I don't believe it would matter one way or the other. It's still going to be illegal for them. Kids aren?t? naive to drugs. They already can obtain pot easier than alcohol as it stands.

[timesjoke]

If marijuana were legal, would it be as attractive to the youth?

 

Yes, but in a different way.

 

 

Some kids smoke pot as a kind of rebellion, and sure many adults will still look unfavorably at it, but it will no longer meet the levelt hey want so they will need to move on to a new drug to express their rebellious nature.

 

 

This is an interesting point, could making pot legal force some kids to harsher drugs?

 

 

I can see where this is possible, I wonder what Jhony will say about your point?

[snafu]

Yes, but in a different way.

 

 

Some kids smoke pot as a kind of rebellion, and sure many adults will still look unfavorably at it, but it will no longer meet the levelt hey want so they will need to move on to a new drug to express their rebellious nature.

 

 

This is an interesting point, could making pot legal force some kids to harsher drugs?

 

 

I can see where this is possible, I wonder what Jhony will say about your point?

 

 

How in the hell would making pot legal force kids to harsher drugs?

[Feckless Wench]

It would no longer carry the 'rebellion' that it did...therefore, kids that want to rebel would be forced to look for the next step.

 

On the flip side, many who just want to experiment could do so without ever moving on to harder stuff. Smoking and drinking are legal, many kids stop right there and never do more.