does god exist

[timesjoke]

Nope, that's not real fact. Those sites are all funded by the big oil companies, etc.. it's the same BS that the big tobacco companies tried to pull when they claimed that cancer was safe

 

Now the big man starts to backpeddle, how about how some schools had to show disclaimers before letting the kids see the movie?

 

Why is it facts that prove you worng are a conspiracy?

 

Your losing credibility fast.

 

Correct. No one can do "Gods work" simply because no one knows what God wants, if anything. We are less than ants to him, in a Universe that makes Earth smaller than the size of a grain of sand. It's really arrogant to believe that God would care more about communicating with us than anything else on his universal agenda. This arrogance is at the heart of most religions, and why a lot of people are turned off by religions in general.

 

Now who is spouting assumptions?

 

Your wrong of course but it is very interesting to watch the hoops of wacko logic you guys try to go through in your attacks on religion.

 

We can know what God wants, he speaks to us all the time, when we do wrong we feel it, even hardoned criminals have spoken about the drive to confess, the feelings of depression and guilt associated with their actions. It gets more complicated than that but trying to keep it simple for you, this goes back to good and bad being standards, you don't have to call it God, but there is a flow to our existance that cannot be explained with science.

 

Yep, one thing is for sure, they are all man made and serve only mans needs.

To a certain extent I will agree with you, God made man, man made the many religions in his attempt to define and worship God, but man has never done anything in a perfect way, we mess up everything.

 

Your own attempts to describe God as having better things to do than worry about us is your attempt to come to grips with the concept of God, but he still exists despite our failures to understand or define him.

 

First of all I'm not a "religion hater'. Secondly I never said that ONLY religions caused wars. Of course not, but the majority of deaths from the various wars started because of religions. Well, maybe it's not the religions fault per se, maybe it's more specifically the ignorance and narrow-mindedness that the religions promote.

 

So your not a religion hater but then you say religion promotes ignorance and narrow-mindedness, right.

 

Your a religion hater to be sure, in action if not by admission but your feble attempt to dodge my point about much greater killings done by Athiests will not work.

 

Athiests have killed many more in their attempts to subject their beliefs on others then religious followers have. The salem witch hunts, the crusades, all the supposed "religious" wars account for less then a million people, while athiests have credit for over 100 million.

 

 

 

Oh I don't know, maybe it's because atheist inherently don't have groups

 

As I said, selfish.

 

Not true. I've known many atheist who have donated a lot of time and money for such things. I think you are just being prejudiced. Just because someone has a different belief system than you doesn't mean that they are immune from helping others. You have no patent on that area. The fact that an atheist does not believe in ?God? does not indicate that they do not have a commitment to the well being of other people. All of the the atheistic people I know are educators and artists, healers and and scientists who develop new systems that benefit people people all around the world. They are, if anything, more firmly invested in benefitting humanity as a whole than the religious folks that I know who are more selective about who benefits from their efforts.

 

Empty claim.

 

There is not one athiest group doing anything but selfish religion bashing in the world.

 

The ACLU is a prime example, spending all that time chasing down prayer in schools but not one guy willing to bring a hot meal to the needy.

 

I live the life of helping people, our church runs two orphanages in poor Countries, I have never seen one athiest help anyone in my life, I have never heard of one group of athiests going to Darfur to assist those that need help, but I always hear about religious people doing these things.

 

 

 

This is the third time I will point out that while you try to point out bad things about religion, you refuse to give credit to the good things religion does that nobody else will do.

 

America was founded and made great on religious principles, every law has it's base in religion. Every successful society has a standard of a common belief structure at it's core and many of the failures such as the fall of Rome is clearly connceted to their attempted change in the common belief structure that held that society together.

 

 

Even Richard Dawkins (the current "pope" of the athiest movement) grudgingly admits that religion is a moderating factor for society.

 

 

I have no problem with Athiests, I am just wondering why everyone else must change to make them happy? Why not forge your own society, create your own structure instead of tearing down ours.

[Guest webDressing]

conjecture once again loss of facts.

 

Not at all, I see it everyday. Of course a person would need to be open-minded to spot it. I did a quick google and found this atheist charity. You would have found them too snafu, as I'm sure google would work just as good for you snafu as it did for us, if you weren't so close-minded and took the initiative to just try

 

If you were open-minded about such things then you would have learned that both Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, who have each individually made the two largest charitable donations in American history, are both atheist (oops, bet that's gotta kill your argument, huh?) and they can rightly claim credit for spurring many other ultra-rich to also be charitable.

 

Ted Turner, the multi-billionaire, has also donated millions to others, and guess what snafu, he's an atheist too!

 

George Soros, also a multi-billionaire, financier and philanthropist, has also donated millions and is also an atheist. The list goes on and on. There are literally hundreds more. You just don't hear about them because they tend to do these things quietly, and not with a lot of religious fanfare.

 

How's that for facts snafu? That good enough for you? Didn't mean to wake you up

[timesjoke]

A web page hardly means anything, you could have just made the darn thing.

 

 

They have no offices, no deeds, no actions and have never sent a relief group to war torn places like Darfur, no there are no athiest groups wo do anything.

 

 

And a multi billionare giving a few million to charity is like a penny from you and me but what you should have taken the time to research is who the money went to, religious based groups becasue they are the only ones "doing" what needs to be done, so even if an Athiest does donate, he must donate to religious people because their the only "troops" on the ground.

[snafu]

I guess I shouldn't have harped on the fact issue. But if your going to debate, know that it's you opinion aganist who ever disagrees with you. It's all conjector. Even your google check against mine.

 

 

 

I have a personal relationship with god. I don't believe in miracles. So he can't stop greed or coruption. I don't believe Jesus was resurrected.

But I do know there is a god.

 

Fact: you can't prove me wrong.

[snafu]

Not at all, I see it everyday. Of course a person would need to be open-minded to spot it. I did a quick google and found this atheist charity. You would have found them too snafu, as I'm sure google would work just as good for you snafu as it did for us, if you weren't so close-minded and took the initiative to just try

 

If you were open-minded about such things then you would have learned that both Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, who have each individually made the two largest charitable donations in American history, are both atheist (oops, bet that's gotta kill your argument, huh?) and they can rightly claim credit for spurring many other ultra-rich to also be charitable.

 

Ted Turner, the multi-billionaire, has also donated millions to others, and guess what snafu, he's an atheist too!

 

George Soros, also a multi-billionaire, financier and philanthropist, has also donated millions and is also an atheist. The list goes on and on. There are literally hundreds more. You just don't hear about them because they tend to do these things quietly, and not with a lot of religious fanfare.

 

How's that for facts snafu? That good enough for you? Didn't mean to wake you up

 

Oh and your preaching to the wrong person here. I agree that atheist can do good things. My dad is atheist and I swear he's the kindest, nicest person on the planet. I also agree that more people have died in the name of a god than any other reason. BUT that's man ing up. Not Gods.

[Guest webDressing]

how about how some schools had to show disclaimers before letting the kids see the movie?

Interesting how you'd call them 'disclamers' when that's really not what they were at all Typical of your fact twisting timesjoke.

 

The judge that ruled on that said the film could be shown in its entirety as long as updated guidelines were followed. Not including those 9 updates would have simply violated the 1996 Education Act, it had nothing to do with the FACTS in the movie as a whole! Many of those 'updates' had to do with subjects NOT regarding if climate warming was real of not, they had to do with things like if polar bears were drowning.

 

Get your facts straight OK timesjoke, it's really a hassle having to correct you all of the time.

 

Why is it facts that prove you worng are a conspiracy?

Well you've yet to display any such 'facts' so I can't comment.

 

We can know what God wants, he speaks to us all the time

Really? Just out of curiosity is it a mans voice or a womans? How convenient that he only 'talks to you' and not to the entire world huh?...

 

you don't have to call it God, but there is a flow to our existance that cannot be explained with science.

Yes there is. Too bad for you it doesn't have anything to do with man made religion.

 

man made the many religions in his attempt to define and worship God

Not really. It was more of those primitive people just trying to understand what was happening around them. Can't blame them for that.

 

man has never done anything in a perfect way, we mess up everything.

No argument there

 

Your own attempts to describe God as having better things to do than worry about us is your attempt to come to grips with the concept of God

Nope. Some things are unexplainable, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

 

So your not a religion hater but then you say religion promotes ignorance and narrow-mindedness, right.

Correct, it does. Just depends on what dogma they're trying to promote.

 

The salem witch hunts, the crusades, all the supposed "religious" wars account for less then a million people, while athiests have credit for over 100 million.

LOL!!! Thanks, I needed that

 

There is not one athiest group doing anything but selfish religion bashing in the world.

Oh look! You did it again

 

The ACLU is a prime example

Not a fan of theirs so I can't help you there.

[Guest webDressing]

I live the life of helping people

So do I.

 

I have never seen one athiest help anyone in my life

Maybe you've seen them, and just didn't know that they were atheist

 

you refuse to give credit to the good things religion does that nobody else will do.

That's because no such thing exist.

 

For example; I've heard many accounts about how when some people first got married back in the 1970s, that catholic charities wouldn't help them out because they were not "good, church-going catholics." Basically because they didn't go to church every week (and put in their money filled envelope) the Church didn't consider them worthy of help.

 

You see, it isn't because religion makes people morally better than atheism. Rather, it would be because churches often organize charitable activities and encourage their members to participate, while atheists, simply have no comparable social structure. It's not that churchgoers have a superior moral sentiment, just that because of their increased social structure they naturally have increased opportunity.

 

America was founded and made great on religious principles

I'll go you one better ... the entire school system was founded for the sole purpose of having a place where people could teach children how to read - the bible.

 

I have no problem with Athiests, I am just wondering why everyone else must change to make them happy?

I don't think they necessarily feel that you have to. The same however could be said about religions.

 

create your own structure instead of tearing down ours.

Excuse me... OURS? Are you suggesting that something in society inherently belongs to you just because you have a religion?

 

I guess I shouldn't have harped on the fact issue. But if your going to debate, know that it's you opinion aganist who ever disagrees with you.

No, I told you, I don't believe in anything but the facts. If you want to convince me of anything you have to show me facts to back up your claim(s). I couldn't care less what opinions are thrown out on the table. When you form an opinion without the facts, you are starting to build a prejudice.

 

But I do know there is a god.

 

Fact: you can't prove me wrong.

Why would I want to prove you wrong? I agree 110% with you

 

I agree that atheist can do good things. My dad is atheist and I swear he's the kindest, nicest person on the planet. I also agree that more people have died in the name of a god than any other reason. BUT that's man ing up. Not Gods

Hmm... weird... again I agree 110% OK where is snafu, and what have you done to him?

[timesjoke]

Interesting how you'd call them 'disclamers' when that's really not what they were at all Typical of your fact twisting timesjoke.

 

The judge that ruled on that said the film could be shown in its entirety as long as updated guidelines were followed. Not including those 9 updates would have simply violated the 1996 Education Act, it had nothing to do with the FACTS in the movie as a whole! Many of those 'updates' had to do with subjects NOT regarding if climate warming was real of not, they had to do with things like if polar bears were drowning.

 

Get your facts straight OK timesjoke, it's really a hassle having to correct you all of the time.

 

 

Well you've yet to display any such 'facts' so I can't comment.

 

I just gave you a link where science is used to prove the entire movie is completely bogus.

 

You didged those facts by claiming their biased but you failed to do two things.

 

1- You have not proven they were biased with anything more than your empty words. If yu cannot back up your claim of bias, don't make the claim.

 

2- You have not disproved the science that proved the movie wrong. All of the science used is clearly defined and step by step process is used to prove that there is no significant global warming caused by man. You keep asking for proof, I gave you proof, so now put up or shut up.

 

Really? Just out of curiosity is it a mans voice or a womans? How convenient that he only 'talks to you' and not to the entire world huh?...

 

Neither, as I keep saying, it is a feeling that is in all of us, even hardoned criminals feel the pressure to confess their sins, the natural flow of right and wrong is offered to all of our hearts.

 

We decide to listen or not.

 

Yes there is. Too bad for you it doesn't have anything to do with man made religion.

 

Sure it does, just not to the specifics they attempted to define it. This is common for man to fill in the blanks of things they don't understand with their own desires. The same way your fiiling in the blanks with your intolerance for religion.

 

Not really. It was more of those primitive people just trying to understand what was happening around them. Can't blame them for that.

 

 

LOL!!! Thanks, I needed that

 

Nice dodge trying to again avoid admitting your proven wrong.

 

Oh look! You did it again

 

Yep, I will keep proving you wrong as long as you are.

 

Not a fan of theirs so I can't help you there.

 

 

The ACLU once did great things but the last several years has turned them into an anti-religion group, they tear away at religion every chance they get.

 

 

So do I.

 

How many hot meals did you deliver this week?

 

Helping people is more then sitting in your chair talking. It is action, real action.

 

Maybe you've seen them, and just didn't know that they were atheist

 

Nope, I know an athiest when I see them in action.

 

No athiest has ever been involved in public service without getting paid that I have ever seen.

 

That's because no such thing exist.

 

What the heck are you trying to claim now?

 

Again you resort to tearing down what you cnnot stand up to in comparison. You lack the desire to help others so you refuse to admit others are willing to do what you refuse to do.

 

Religion does help people in ways the government never will, but here wee the prime example of how an Athiest will deny any good done by religion at any cost to preserve his own feeling of superiority.

 

And that is intollerance.

 

 

For example; I've heard many accounts about how when some people first got married back in the 1970s, that catholic charities wouldn't help them out because they were not "good, church-going catholics." Basically because they didn't go to church every week (and put in their money filled envelope) the Church didn't consider them worthy of help.

 

You heard?

 

You cannot prove anything so you just defame religion in the hopes to discout the good done right?

 

And your best example is from the 1970's?

 

You must reach back almost 40 years to have an example of unfair charity?

 

Let me give you some proof of good things done in the name of religion:

ORPHANAGE Free Link Page

 

Here is a listing of the religious based orphanages run all over the world.

 

This is just one area where religion is doing very well to try and provide care not possible without us, why is it impossible for someone like you to give credit for these actions?

 

 

You see, it isn't because religion makes people morally better than atheism. Rather, it would be because churches often organize charitable activities and encourage their members to participate, while atheists, simply have no comparable social structure. It's not that churchgoers have a superior moral sentiment, just that because of their increased social structure they naturally have increased opportunity.

 

So athiests are not social people?

 

So I am correct in my assessment they are more concerned with themselves than society or community right?

 

I'll go you one better ... the entire school system was founded for the sole purpose of having a place where people could teach children how to read - the bible.

 

Don't believe everything your hate sites are preaching.

 

I don't think they necessarily feel that you have to. The same however could be said about religions.

 

How so?

 

Only Athiests want to change everything to suit them.

 

Excuse me... OURS? Are you suggesting that something in society inherently belongs to you just because you have a religion?

 

No, because we did the work to build the society. Selfish athiests have done nothing to help build this Nation into it's strong possition it is in today. But it is actively working to tear it apart.

 

No, I told you, I don't believe in anything but the facts. If you want to convince me of anything you have to show me facts to back up your claim(s). I couldn't care less what opinions are thrown out on the table. When you form an opinion without the facts, you are starting to build a prejudice.

 

Like your refusing to address the facts disproving the greenhouse claims?

 

You talk about how you only care about facts but you never post anything but your opinions and call them facts.

 

When someone uses facts against you, you say the facts are not fair or just ignore them because you would have to admit your wrong and your self-important attirude would be damaged if you had to admit that right?

 

 

Tackle the proof against global warming and maybe I will give you a tad bit of credibility but if al you can do is dodge the facts, you have not even a grain of sands worth of credibility in my book.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Not true. I've known many atheist who have donated a lot of time and money for such things. I think you are just being prejudiced. Just because someone has a different belief system than you doesn't mean that they are immune from helping others. You have no patent on that area. The fact that an atheist does not believe in ?God? does not indicate that they do not have a commitment to the well being of other people. All of the the atheistic people I know are educators and artists, healers and and scientists who develop new systems that benefit people people all around the world. They are, if anything, more firmly invested in benefitting humanity as a whole than the religious folks that I know who are more selective about who benefits from their efforts.

 

 

I agree with a lot of this. Religion does not make you a better person. Many Atheists are nice people. Religion is a business like any other. That puts theists in the same group as used car salesmen, mortgage lenders, politicians and many other unsavoury types.

 

Often they are seen as harmless, but look again, this time more closely. All the worlds major tyrants were theists: Hitler,Stalin, Ma Tse Tung, Pol Pot etc.

 

But dont believe for a moment hat its al in the past. They are very active in the present. In most schools they are peddling their intolerant drivel to our children. It should be outlawed, however the theists have such a grip that this will take years to acheive.

[Jhony5]

Many Atheists are nice people.

Yes, many are. The issue that TJ is trying to get across is that when atheist band together to accomplish a goal, it is always to tear down, not to build up. They attack the mystery of life and try to replace it with mundane scientific cause. Roadside memorials are attacked as religious symbols. Charitable Christian efforts are attacked as if they were merely greedy religious indoctrination attempts.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

This is the stupidest thread that I have ever seen. If you consider this a big topic then you're a moron. Part of the problem is, every site has this thread, and every time it just turns into people getting mad at each other and there is no answer. This is a belief and there is no way to prove either opinion.

 

Agreed IWS, there is no way to prove it either way. So lets just do what they do in a court of law, we'll use circumstantial evidence, or whatever you like to call it.

 

Facts:

1/God will not show up if challenged.

2/ No one has ever seen a miracle from these holy Joes, even though the world is full of them.

3/This faerie who loves you all so dearly does all, while rapes, murders, famines , wars and all sorts of heinous things occur

 

Probability: The sky faeries theory is complete bull

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

And a multi billionare giving a few million to charity is like a penny from you and me .

 

I think web was just showing you that you were wrong again TJ, remember just a little way back? when you sais Atheists were selfish, thats clearly not the case

[timesjoke]

I think web was just showing you that you were wrong again TJ, remember just a little way back? when you sais Atheists were selfish, thats clearly not the case

 

How is this proof I am wrong?

 

Do you believe the big donation was without a tax consideration?

 

Making a sacrifice to assist others is charity, paying money to get a tax writeoff is not charity.

 

 

He still has not proven a single athiest has ever directly assisted people in the way religious people have. I can provide millions of example of how religious people give their own time, their money (without tax breaks), they truly want to help people because it the right thing to do.

 

 

He has also openly stated ahtisets are not social the way religious people are so again, this supports my possition that an athiest is the definition of selfish.

 

 

He has still never answered why athiests always want to destroy religion, even your intollerant comment about sky faeries and such is insulting and rude but you see nothing wrong with being intollerant.

 

 

 

If you find yourself making excuses for why athiests are selfish, and ignoring the good works religion does just to attack it, that should be a clue your wrong.

 

 

But again, I fully support your right to believe what you want, I just wish you could keep your intollerance to yourself, not call me and others names and put us down just because you don't believe what we believe.

 

 

 

Sure, I have made comments about athiests and I am still waiting for proof I am wrong, he and you are still posting empty words while I have posted proof that religious people do good things like run orphanages while you can offer not one piece of evidence that an athiest has ever directly assisted anyone in the same way, much less to the same degree that would be a comparison "after" you could produce some evidence of an athiest doing this.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

How is this proof I am wrong?

 

Do you believe the big donation was without a tax consideration?

 

Making a sacrifice to assist others is charity, paying money to get a tax writeoff is not charity..

 

You said that Atheists were selfish. The proof has been given by webs reply. He cites several Atheists giving huge sums of money to charity. Clearly these Atheists are not selfish people. There may be a tax concession, but this is true also for Theist contributions to charities.

 

Dont expect to ignore Atheist contributions, while patting heists on the back. It works both ways TJ

 

He still has not proven a single athiest has ever directly assisted people in the way religious people have...

 

He just did prove it !!!!

 

 

He has also openly stated ahtisets are not social the way religious people are so again, this supports my possition that an athiest is the definition of selfish..

 

No. He said the Atheists do not have the social network to act in a way a big organisation like Christians can. We are not held together by our belief as your group is

 

 

He has still never answered why athiests always want to destroy religion, even your intollerant comment about sky faeries and such is insulting and rude but you see nothing wrong with being intollerant..

 

No they dont. I do not want to destroy religion. I only ask that you stop brainwashing children with your silly beliefs

 

 

 

If you find yourself making excuses for why athiests are selfish, and ignoring the good works religion does just to attack it, that should be a clue your wrong..

 

I do not ignore the good work done by Theists. Any charitable good work is good work.

 

 

But again, I fully support your right to believe what you want, I just wish you could keep your intollerance to yourself, not call me and others names and put us down just because you don't believe what we believe..

 

I have never called you or others names that I can recall. And I am certainly not intolerant of you or your cause. I jus disagree with it.

 

 

 

Sure, I have made comments about athiests and I am still waiting for proof I am wrong, he and you are still posting empty words while I have posted proof that religious people do good things like run orphanages while you can offer not one piece of evidence that an athiest has ever directly assisted anyone in the same way,.

 

You are just being silly here. Wh do you think puts money into Christian charity boxes ? The general public thats who ! The money is not raised exclusively by Christians and you know that !

 

They collect in supermarkets, malls, shopping centres etc and are forever pushing little envelopes through peoples doors

 

Stop trying to hijack the charity of the general public, like it was all the work of your group

[timesjoke]

You said that Atheists were selfish. The proof has been given by webs reply. He cites several Atheists giving huge sums of money to charity. Clearly these Atheists are not selfish people. There may be a tax concession, but this is true also for Theist contributions to charities.

 

Dont expect to ignore Atheist contributions, while patting heists on the back. It works both ways TJ

 

I cannot believe you don't understand the concept of how big money people use these large donation to "make" money.

 

 

If I give you a dollar from my posket to help you buy a meal, that is charity, if a multibillion dollar person gives you a dollar, it is because he is making two dollars in return, that is not charity. It falls to what the intent to give the money is.

 

 

Charity is in the heart, not in the wallet.

 

 

He just did prove it !!!!

 

No he did not, but even if he did, yes the contribution "looks" good, but accounts for nothing compared to the overall contributions given by all religious people for social programs, and these contributions come from people who could use that money to improve their own lives, the money given buy the rich to get tax breaks cannot improve their lives, it is meaningless to them, and has no significant meaning to them to give it.

 

 

 

No. He said the Atheists do not have the social network to act in a way a big organisation like Christians can. We are not held together by our belief as your group is

 

And that means you cannot pool your resources to assist others, your attitude is the self, not others.

 

 

No they dont. I do not want to destroy religion. I only ask that you stop brainwashing children with your silly beliefs

 

First of all, it is not brainwashing, you using desparaging remarks to describe those who follow religious beliefs is. It is like the racist that calls black people the "N" word. Children can learn intollerance from hearing the intollerant adults like you speak.

 

 

 

I do not ignore the good work done by Theists. Any charitable good work is good work.

 

I was specifically talking about things like the movie he said was good. These things concentrate on focusing down on some real things, adding in completely false things, and presenting it all without balancing it with the reality that only religious people do things like help in Darfur, or deliver hot meals to the needy.

 

 

 

I have never called you or others names that I can recall. And I am certainly not intolerant of you or your cause. I jus disagree with it.

 

If you use a general term in a negative way to describe all religious people, and you know I am religious, then you are calling me names.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are just being silly here. Wh do you think puts money into Christian charity boxes ? The general public thats who ! The money is not raised exclusively by Christians and you know that !

 

They collect in supermarkets, malls, shopping centres etc and are forever pushing little envelopes through peoples doors

 

Stop trying to hijack the charity of the general public, like it was all the work of your group

 

Most charity boxes in stores are not real charities, less then 10% of those donations ever make it to real charities, most of the money goes in the pockets of those running the scams.

 

Most charity donations come from Christians, ad to that the workers actually doing the work are all Christians, and you start to see who really cares about helping society. Charity is inherently a Christian concept. As you guys already said, your not social, so you don't feel the connection to society the way religious people do.

 

 

The few times you see real charity collectors is the salvation army for example. The person ringing the bell is Christian, the group is run by Christians, the people doing the managing and supply are Christians, the final distribution is handles by Christians........

 

 

 

Do you see a pattern forming?

[Guest webDressing]

Religion is a business like any other. That puts theists in the same group as used car salesmen, mortgage lenders, politicians and many other unsavoury types.

Yep. good point sheik-yerbouti The vatican even has it's own bank, and guess what... it's not for helping people

 

All the worlds major tyrants were theists: Hitler,Stalin, Ma Tse Tung, Pol Pot etc.

There are good and bad on both sides. The only thing that's ridiculous is for churchgoers to claim that only religions truly donate to charities. That is the height of ignorance and stupidity. There is nothing inherent in religions that make them any better than anyone else.

[timesjoke]

There are good and bad on both sides. The only thing that's ridiculous is for churchgoers to claim that only religions truly donate to charities. That is the height of ignorance and stupidity. There is nothing inherent in religions that make them any better than anyone else.

 

Interesting that we can prove we help others while all you can do is "say" you help others, interesting...........

 

 

What was that you keep saying about offering proof?

 

 

Seems like you keep comming up without proof, speaking of that, why do you refuse to answer specific questions posed you?

[Guest webDressing]

How is this proof I am wrong?

It's a little thing that open-minded/educated people call facts. Here's a link for your consideration. Pack a lunch

 

Do you believe the big donation was without a tax consideration?

Do you believe that religious groups are taxed? It must be nice to be so narrow-minded timesjoke. You see ONLY what you want to see. Weird.

 

He still has not proven a single athiest has ever directly assisted people in the way religious people have.

Don't take this the wrong way but I can't stand ignorance. I'm not talking about people that simply don't know this or that fact... I'm talking about people like you timesjoke that go out of their way to BLOCK the truth or the facts, just so that "their" point of view looks good to them. So, knowing ahead of time that you are completely closed-minded and immune from admitting the facts - the rest of this post will not be intended for you. It will be for those who want to know the truth, and learn the facts.

 

What timesjoke doesn't want you to know, is that there are countless amounts of people who are atheist that donate from the heart. They do not 'band together' into groups like religions do, and they do not advertise their charitable works like regions do, but they donate from the heart just the same. Here is a partial list of many such individuals who just happen to also be atheist. But it goes MUCH further than that though. There are a few organizations formed by atheists for the sole purpose of donating to those in need. One such organization is called S.H.A.R.E. - Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Effort. Here is a recent story about them helping those in need. So, when someone like timesjoke tries to convince you that 'only religions' donate or help those in need, you will now know that it's simply not true, and that people from all beliefs, even those that don't believe in God, help others in need and donate from their hearts, because they know it's the right thing to do for their fellow man in need.

 

--------------------------------

 

OK timesjoke you can continue reading the rest of this thread, but please stop whining. It's starting to make you look like the 'Joker' from the Batman series...

[timesjoke]

It's a little thing that open-minded/educated people call facts. Here's a link for your consideration. Pack a lunch

 

And yet you have not offered any facts yet, sure you toss around a lot of speculation but up to now, I am the only one out of the two uf us that has provided links with proof to back up what I have to say, while all you have is insults and derogatory remarks for anyone who does not swallow your empty words as facts.

 

 

Do you believe that religious groups are taxed? It must be nice to be so narrow-minded timesjoke. You see ONLY what you want to see. Weird.

 

Blind to what?

 

What proof have you offered?

 

Nothing but empty words, that is all you have, must be nice to just make up stuff and claim it is fact in your own mind but the rest of us require a tad more then that.

 

 

As far as the church being taxed, no, do you have any idea why? Because the money they have is donations from the religious people who already paid taxes on it, that's why. It is not a business, it is a community service, the only services helping much of the needy that the government refuses to see or help, and we know athiests won't help.

 

 

The money I work hard to earn is already heavily taxed, if I want to use some of my money to help others, the government should not be taxing it again. How this differs with the rich person is their only motivation to help someone is the tax break, not to help people.

 

Please try to pay attention because I havce already covered this, charity is in the mind and heart, not in the wallet.

 

 

Did you even look at the link I offered?

 

How many orphanages do athiests run?

 

Don't take this the wrong way but I can't stand ignorance. I'm not talking about people that simply don't know this or that fact... I'm talking about people like you timesjoke that go out of their way to BLOCK the truth or the facts, just so that "their" point of view looks good to them. So, knowing ahead of time that you are completely closed-minded and immune from admitting the facts - the rest of this post will not be intended for you. It will be for those who want to know the truth, and learn the facts.

 

What have I blocked?

 

What fact have I avoided?

 

Empty words?

 

There is your problem, you talk of facts but offer not even one fact for consideration.

 

Don't get upset at me for pointing out how everythign you say is without foundation or supporting information.

 

What timesjoke doesn't want you to know, is that there are countless amounts of people who are atheist that donate from the heart. They do not 'band together' into groups like religions do, and they do not advertise their charitable works like regions do, but they donate from the heart just the same. Here is a partial list of many such individuals who just happen to also be atheist. But it goes MUCH further than that though. There are a few organizations formed by atheists for the sole purpose of donating to those in need. One such organization is called S.H.A.R.E. - Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Effort. Here is a recent story about them helping those in need. So, when someone like timesjoke tries to convince you that 'only religions' donate or help those in need, you will now know that it's simply not true, and that people from all beliefs, even those that don't believe in God, help others in need and donate from their hearts, because they know it's the right thing to do for their fellow man in need.

 

 

OK timesjoke you can continue reading the rest of this thread, but please stop whining. It's starting to make you look like the 'Joker' from the Batman series...

 

More personal attacks I see, grow up.

 

 

Let's look at your empty claims again for a second, I will pick out one of your posted groups at random and check it out:

 

S.H.A.R.E.

 

They talk about what they stand for, and claim to have donated to assist the Katrina disaster, but how much?

 

What did they actually do?

 

Who did they give the money to?

 

Did they go to the site and directly give help or did they leave that to the Christians willing to get a little dirty to help people?

 

No, still nothing to show real charity, if anythign you can show a little cash donations, but as I already showed, "true" charity is in the heart, not the wallet.

[Guest webDressing]

And yet you have not offered any facts yet

I have posted plenty or rock solid facts. YOU can't acknowledge any of them because that would mean that you would have to admit that your precious religion told you lies. OH NOES, NOT THAT!!!!11!!

 

I am the only one out of the two uf us that has provided links with proof to back up what I have to say

Complete and utter Bulls ! You are either medically blind, delusional, or in denial. Actually you meet all of the criteria for being in clinical denial, so maybe that's a given. And in case you're going to whine about that being an insult of any kind, I would be more than happy to prove, with FACTS, just how clinically you meet all of the criteria for being in denial. Would you like me to share them with everybody here? Didn't think so...

 

Blind to what?

Anything other than what your 'precious religion' has crammed down your throat, probably since childhood. Did 'mommy and daddy' yell at you when you questioned their religion? Hey, I can understand how afraid that would have made you. When you're a child - a parent is like a giant that's four times taller than you and they make all the rules, so you have to play along. BUT NOW you are (hopefully) an adult, and there is NO excuse for you not to question what you were forced to believe as a child, or anywhere else for that matter. Most people call this a fact of growing up. That is, most people that have a backbone and aren't afraid to seek the truth. The best part is that you can start questioning what you were forced to believe right now. It's not too late, not even for you timesjoke, that is of course, if you actually are interested in learning the truth...

 

As far as the church being taxed, no, do you have any idea why?

It DOESN'T MATTER why Every organization has an excuse why they shouldn't pay taxes. The FACT of the matter is that you were whining that "those atheist" donate for tax relief, and yet YOUR CHURCH DOES THE SAME EXACT THING! Imagine that... That's gotta hurt huh timesjoke? Bet you wish that I couldn't honestly say that about your precious church, but I can! That - in and of itself - should tell you something about how much in denial you truly are. BTW- I don't know anyone, including you, that wouldn't like or accept a little tax relief if we could all get it. So if the law allows people to get some then that's fine. The MAIN thing is that these people are HELPING THOSE IN NEED! They get a small tax relief like your church, you get whining rights that you feed the hungry, so what, it's all the same. People help for different reasons. Quite frankly I don't care what their reasons are, and I'm sure God doesn't either. I'm just glad that they ARE helping

 

charity is in the mind and heart, not in the wallet.

And being that - YOU have no right to assume that any of those atheist, or anyone else for that matter, hasn't donated from their heart! Unless of course you are now claiming that you can read peoples minds

 

What have I blocked?

The unvarnished truth.

 

What fact have I avoided?

Those not pre-approved by your religion.

 

BTW- I know you probably feel like I'm picking on you. I'M NOT! Just think of it as 'tough love' Besides, this isn't as much for you as it is for others here who want to learn both sides of the story, and who want to learn the truth of the matter. Where the church does good I am thankful. Where the atheist do good I am thankful. If you are so petty that you have to bash those that genuinely try to help others, then that says a lot about you, don't you think?

 

Have a nice day, hopefully one where people in need are being helped.

[timesjoke]

I have posted plenty or rock solid facts. YOU can't acknowledge any of them because that would mean that you would have to admit that your precious religion told you lies. OH NOES, NOT THAT!!!!11!!

 

You have not posted even one fact, everything you have posted is conjecture and unsupported opinions.

 

I am still waiting on your reply to my questions about disproving the global warming garbage. I posted a link that clearly and decisively proved that Al Gore is full of beans and your rebuttal is to say you don't like their facts so you discount them.

 

 

You don't offer one piece of proof to prove their biased, you don't disprove their posted math, you don;t have anything but empty words.

 

Complete and utter Bulls ! You are either medically blind, delusional, or in denial. Actually you meet all of the criteria for being in clinical denial, so maybe that's a given. And in case you're going to whine about that being an insult of any kind, I would be more than happy to prove, with FACTS, just how clinically you meet all of the criteria for being in denial. Would you like me to share them with everybody here? Didn't think so...

 

Give up on the personal attack, they are the tool of the mentally weak, every time you resort to these childish tactics, all you do is prove yourself to be more and more intollerant.

 

Blind to smokescreens maybe, but nothing else. You have never offered even one single piece of proof to show that one athiest has ever directly assisted one needy person in any way other than to show that some rich guys have given money to get tax breaks that paid them back.

 

Anything other than what your 'precious religion' has crammed down your throat, probably since childhood. Did 'mommy and daddy' yell at you when you questioned their religion? Hey, I can understand how afraid that would have made you. When you're a child - a parent is like a giant that's four times taller than you and they make all the rules, so you have to play along. BUT NOW you are (hopefully) an adult, and there is NO excuse for you not to question what you were forced to believe as a child, or anywhere else for that matter. Most people call this a fact of growing up. That is, most people that have a backbone and aren't afraid to seek the truth. The best part is that you can start questioning what you were forced to believe right now. It's not too late, not even for you timesjoke, that is of course, if you actually are interested in learning the truth...

 

More childish personal attacks.

 

You feel you must attack my parents, my integrity, and my faith out of your intollerance, this is the typical self-absorbed of every athiest out there, glad to know they have you well programmed, Richard Dawkins would be proud.

 

 

Too bad your crowd always seems to be educated and well spoken as long as everyone is agreeing with you, the second anyone calls you on your garbage and lack of proof, you turn to your hatred and personal attacks.

 

It DOESN'T MATTER why Every organization has an excuse why they shouldn't pay taxes. The FACT of the matter is that you were whining that "those atheist" donate for tax relief, and yet YOUR CHURCH DOES THE SAME EXACT THING! Imagine that... That's gotta hurt huh timesjoke? Bet you wish that I couldn't honestly say that about your precious church, but I can! That - in and of itself - should tell you something about how much in denial you truly are. BTW- I don't know anyone, including you, that wouldn't like or accept a little tax relief if we could all get it. So if the law allows people to get some then that's fine. The MAIN thing is that these people are HELPING THOSE IN NEED! They get a small tax relief like your church, you get whining rights that you feed the hungry, so what, it's all the same. People help for different reasons. Quite frankly I don't care what their reasons are, and I'm sure God doesn't either. I'm just glad that they ARE helping

 

All you can show is where some groups "say" they have donated but I cannot even see proof they have given one thin dime, much less the billions religious people have donated in just the last quarter last year in America.

 

 

Look, it was you who admitted that athiest followers were not sociel people, that is why you don't feel helping others is important. So, you try to discount the real great work religious people do for society.

 

Even if a few athiest people do donate some money, it is the religious people that made the groups and do the real work on the ground, they care much more for society then anyone else.

 

And being that - YOU have no right to assume that any of those atheist, or anyone else for that matter, hasn't donated from their heart! Unless of course you are now claiming that you can read peoples minds

 

You claim the ability to look into the hearts and minds of religious people and say their all bad right?

 

All I can see is a lot of athiests all trying to tear down the only thing that made America possible, religion. The thread that held this Nation together and made freedom possible. Again, I have no problem with your kind, I just wish you would stop trying to destroy what made your life possible.

 

The unvarnished truth.

 

Your words are not the truth, I need more than your empty words to believe things.

 

Come back with some "provable" facts and we can talk but at this point, your no better then the 9/11 conspiracy wackos, all claiming they bring the "truth" but cannot give anything to back them up.

 

Those not pre-approved by your religion.

 

BTW- I know you probably feel like I'm picking on you. I'M NOT! Just think of it as 'tough love' Besides, this isn't as much for you as it is for others here who want to learn both sides of the story, and who want to learn the truth of the matter. Where the church does good I am thankful. Where the atheist do good I am thankful. If you are so petty that you have to bash those that genuinely try to help others, then that says a lot about you, don't you think?

 

At least I can provide real and hard proof of the direct assistance religion has given, and is still giving to society, you have nothign except empty words and intollerance to offer.

 

Your right, everyone can see that I post proof while you have nothing but hatred. If your side lives by hatred nd intollerance, then what is the point?

 

 

Have a nice day, hopefully one where people in need are being helped.

 

If their being helped, it is a religious person doing the helping, the Athiests are off tearing down nativity displays.

[Guest webDressing]

You have not posted even one fact, everything you have posted is conjecture and unsupported opinions.

Only a fundamentalist would reply like that. Thank you for proving my point...

 

I am still waiting on your reply to my questions about disproving the global warming garbage.

Currently gathering them, and when we are finished gathering them we will be more than happy to bury you with them. I know you don't know this BUT research takes time to gather, and I have a foundation to run and other daily matters to attend, and quite frankly, responding to some fundamentalist psychobabble nonsense is not high on the list. But they are coming, I assure you of that, I wouldn't miss revealing how ignorant you are for anything in the world

 

I posted a link that clearly and decisively proved that Al Gore is full of beans

You posted PROPAGANDA funded by the big oil companies. The only thing decisive about it was that it was comical.

 

Give up on the personal attack, they are the tool of the mentally weak

Oh look... a lie, surrounded by your own personal attack. Weird.

 

Guess what... we don't resort to such methods. If you walk like a duck and sound like a duck and we call you a duck, then that's NOT a 'personal attack' or an 'insult' - that's just exposing and airing the TRUTH about you! If you don't like the picture that's being painted, then maybe you should do a little soul searching and change the way that you are on the inside, and then honest people won't be able to say those things about you. Didn't you ever learn this lesson from watching the movie "A Christmas Carol"?

 

 

out of your intollerance, this is the typical self-absorbed of every athiest out there

See, HERE'S a PERFECT EXAMPLE... You are sooo off base and so delusional that you can't even get the fact that I'M NOT an atheist right. LOL I guess that's what happens when a person is so PREJUDICED like you are huh timesjoke? Here's a clue; skinheads can only see one thing too. In-fact every prejudiced person is limited to seeing the world in only one way, so why should YOUR PREJUDICE be any different, right timesjoke?

[Guest webDressing]

I cannot even see proof they have given one thin dime

No big surprise there. You can't see anything BUT what your religion tells you to see. Boy, you walked right into that one...

 

that is why you don't feel helping others is important.

Don't be a bonehead, my organization was founded PRECISELY to help people in need. Just because I don't come here to advertise it doesn't mean that you hold the patent on helping.

 

UNlike you however, I try to help others as anonymously as possible, where as you have to remind others here that you "feed the poor" in every other post, to the point of being obnoxious. Oops... looks like YOU'RE getting something out of all of that "self-advertisement" huh timesjoke? Go ahead, say something else self-righteous, dig your hole a little deeper

 

it is the religious people that made the groups and do the real work on the ground, they care much more for society then anyone else.

Wow... change - the cause - and that almost sounds like a quote from hitler or the KKK. Seriously, you need professional help before you start hurting people.

 

All I can see is a lot of atheists all trying to tear down the only thing that made America possible

See above.

 

Example;

All I can see is a lot of Jews all trying to tear down the only thing that made our country possible - hitler

 

All I can see is a lot of infidels all trying to tear down the only thing that made our country possible - terrorist

 

All I can see is a lot of blacks all trying to tear down the only thing that made America possible - KKK

 

All I can see is a lot of atheists all trying to tear down the only thing that made America possible - timesjoke

 

I have no problem with your kind

Another statement that is a BIG sign of prejudice. You're on a roll, you go girl...

 

 

I need more than your empty words to believe things.

Well you didn't need anthing else when you blindly accepted what your religion sold you, so why change now?

 

If their being helped, it is a religious person doing the helping

More prejudice... straight from the horses mouth. You're a perfect example of why God doesn't need religions.

[snafu]

I don?t know why you bother with him TJ. He?ll just keep going around in circles, making no sense what so ever.

[Guest webDressing]

LOL You right wing fundamentalist are really something else, but then again someone suffering from Anorexia can't see how thin they are, even when they look in a mirror... so why should anyone be surprised that a right winged fundamentalist can't see how ignorant and prejudiced they really are?

 

 

While doing some research I did find this article that seems to be talking about timesjoke;

 

Many Christian fundamentalists feel that concern for the future of our planet is irrelevant, because it has no future. They believe we are living in the End Time, when the son of God will return, the righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be condemned to eternal hellfire. They may also believe, along with millions of other Christian fundamentalists, that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed -- even hastened -- as a sign of the coming Apocalypse. link