Obama's new plan

[snafu]

I don't think he's an isolationist Snaf.. just doesn't buy into the might = right theory.

He thinks we should pull out of Korea and Germany. What do you think would happen if we were to just pull out of Korea? I think its in our best interest to keep S Korea an alias and be as close to N Korea as we can.

[wez]

Unfortunately these people have an impractical long term memory. They still hold the Crusades against the US. That was over 400 years ago. We can't overcome that. We can only do what we can.

 

Establishing a Muslim based government and military is the best we can do at this point, and try to overcome that bias.

 

 

All I can imagine is two guys in another country talking about you and I and our country like that and it gives me the willies...

[wez]

He thinks we should pull out of Korea and Germany. What do you think would happen if we were to just pull out of Korea? I think its in our best interest to keep S Korea an alias and be as close to N Korea as we can.

 

Appears that war has been raging on for 60 years now.. Korea. Time to come home..

[snafu]

And in this nuclear day and age might dose= right.

[Anna Perenna]

I'm saying they need to quit relying on the US, and work towards the rebuilding support we always give to new, legitimate governments. Ask Japan or Germany how much they are hurting after the US rebuilt them.

 

Good point.

 

Pardon me, you were sounding kind of harsh in your last post, and I guess I misconstrued your meaning.

 

I'm not to keen on the federal Reserve. I would need to do some homework. But it dose seem pretty crazy to keep making money that we can't back up. Thats killing the dollar. But Ron Paul has his head in the sand. He thinks everything can be fixed by just minding our own business. It's not that simple. We deal with world trade. We deal with alias that watch our back as we watch theirs. In this shrinking world our neighbors good and bad are closer. Yes we need to protect our boarders. But we can't put a wall up and hope nobody jumps it. We need to go where the enemy is at. Not waiting for them to breach the wall. You put blinders on and you don't see what's on the sides of the road that can come out and bite you in the ass. We need to protect our alias and we need to be involved with world events. Our founding for fathers didn't expect us to pay half our income to the government but they didn't anticipate the world as it is today. To keep going back 200 years and saying "see they didn't do it this way" is ludicrous.

 

Is there an alternative to the Federal Reserve?

 

Maybe Ron Paul's reasoning behind minding your own business is regarding all the historical coups and assassinations in South America (and the like), and all the other foreign involvement that's OTT and really isn't necessary.

 

As for trade, Ron Paul would have to be retarded to cut trading ties with other countries, but when you seriously consider the idea - America is so fertile, and so industrious, that you are one of the few countries that could be self sufficient.

[wez]

And in this nuclear day and age might dose= right.

 

 

We'll all pay the bill on that one.. Humans have been struggling against it since the dawn of time. Since the first man clubbed another and saw the fear in the onlookers and what could be done with it.. Some things never change.

[ImWithStupid]

Appears that war has been raging on for 60 years now.. Korea. Time to come home..

 

The thing is that right now, our relationship with North Korea is getting better and if we just leave South Korea on their own until completely accepting each other as an individual state, we have failed.

 

If anything, even though it took this long, Korea should be our guide on what can happen if we persevere.

 

They are coming around, and talking with one another. Germany did the same when we let them establish their own government, why wouldn't Iraq be the same? We just need to find the right motivation for change and acceptance.

[ImWithStupid]

Maybe Ron Paul's reasoning behind minding your own business is regarding all the historical coups and assassinations in South America (and the like), and all the other foreign involvement that's OTT and really isn't necessary.

 

I agree. you have to realize that most of the involvement of the US with coups in South America were in an attempt to stop communism from establishing a foothold in the western hemisphere. That was cold war stuff and even if it was wrong, and loosely base on the Monroe Doctrine of European influence in the western hemisphere, but mostly on the fear of communism.

 

It's a clod war mentality that is really non-existent now.

 

As for trade, Ron Paul would have to be retarded to cut trading ties with other countries, but when you seriously consider the idea - America is so fertile, and so industrious, that you are one of the few countries that could be self sufficient.

 

This is where the whole "isolationist" talk about Ron Paul comes from. This is some of the unrealistic banter that makes him sound so crazy, comes from. We are slowly moving toward a world economy, if not a world government and no country can any longer be self sufficient without trade.

[hugo]

But what are the false pretences here?

 

Besides, it could be argued that every political campaign in history was conducted under false pretences.

 

I suppose I just don't understand the outrage brought about by this - as you just pointed out, harmless - political ploy.

 

Is anyone interested in debating Ron Paul's suggestion to abolish the Federal Reserve?

 

If you really want small government Ron Paul is the only choice out there.

 

Ron Paul on free trade:

 

Ron Paul, What is Free Trade? | Ron Paul Library

 

The rich got screwed by Bush too. THERE WAS A CEILING ON THE SIZE OF THE CHECK YOU GOT BACK.

 

Libertarians, as Paul is, are not isolationists they favor true free trade.

 

Paul is a strong believer in limited government. You cannot have limited government and be the world's policeman. You did not see Canada attacked on 9/11.

[timesjoke]

Ron Paul is a great member of congress, his radical possitions are a balancing point against the radicals on the other end of the spectrum, but he is not someone who should be president.

 

I don?t see how anything we?ve done in the last 50 years has served our interests. You can go back longer than that. I?d go back all the way to Wilson. The unnecessary involvement in World War I gave us Hitler and World War II and on. But if you want to start with more recent ones, I think Roosevelt?s promise to protect Saudi Arabia and prop up secular governments that offended and annoyed the more fundamentalist Arabs and Muslims has been a real thorn in our side.

 

He believes in free trade, but he does not believe there is ever a reason good enough to use military force, or even influence matters with trade, etc..., outside the borders of this country.

 

While I can see where backing off a few things and letting the UN do things without us for awile could possibly wake a few people up, I do not believe there would be much woeld trade if suddenly every bully nation around the world knew that America would "never" try to take action to stop them from doing anything they want.

 

America being here and the world knowing were willing to jump into any fight is a deterrant against bullies. The relative peace we have around the world is because of America's willingness to get involved. When Iraq invaded Kuait, we stepped in to take action, without America, Iraq would have gotten away with it and then another bully Nation would have done the same, over and over.

 

 

Consider the success of the 6 party talks with North Korea, without these actions, there would be hostilities, and as hostilities spread, industry turns to war needed products, not trade prodicts. The Countries and homes need their money to live and support troops, not spend it on extras and extravances.

 

 

Trade ships become fair game during wars, either boarded and taken over or just simply sunk. Countries like Iran can follow through with their threat to remove the Jews from their land, nobody to stop them right? Russia has been flexing their muscles lately, nothing like a promise to ignore the world from America to wake that giant up from it's slumber.

 

 

 

On the whole, I can find a few of Ron Pauls ideas I like, the UN is useless and he wants to remove them from our soil and never be involved with them anymore. He wants a basic tax system like the flat tax, he wants to put us back on the gold standard, he has lots of good ideas, but hos bad ideas are too radical to be given any real consideration.

 

 

I look at it this way, when there are more Americans that still believe that Bush planned 9/11 than who support Ron Paul for President, it is difficult to take him seriuously.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

How do you flush out insurgents? Who are they? Imagine if an army invaded us and took all the "elite" out of their lifelong roles and turned our class system upside down? Destroyed our infrastructure after a decade of sanctions and a war on the other end? I can't imagine it.. a nightmare. And they're here telling us what to do for years.. How does one fix something like that in 5 lifetimes?

 

Certainly not by continuing to use force.. that is their, Al Qaida's/Osama's main problem with us in the first place. Just our presence alone infuriated him to devise the 9/11 plan..

 

I just saw on the news too that Bush, on his visit to Saudi Arabia, announced the sale of some high tech weapons to them. Being that 16 of the hijackers were Saudi's, is that smart? Must be.. what the hell do I know?

 

Are you seriously blaming 9/11 on Americans? You have got to be joking. It's people like you, with this absurd thought process, that make me want to turn the whole of Saudi Arabia into glass. Go visit there... no, move there. You obviously love the area more than you like it here. I'll bet all this "money you've saved" would be much better for you there.

 

 

Well said.. an apology wouldn't hurt either.

 

For what, for going in and removing an evil dictator. Not gonna happen.

 

 

Any government we "approve" will be looked at suspiciously I'm afraid..

 

They can be suspicious, so long as they respect and follow the laws. They'll be able to elect their own in a few years.

 

 

I'm saying they need to quit relying on the US, and work towards the rebuilding support we always give to new, legitimate governments. Ask Japan or Germany how much they are hurting after the US rebuilt them.

 

Thank you. I think we spent WAY too much money on Germany and Japan myself... but it showed the world that we're not just assholes. Why does everyone forget about the good that America does worldwide?

 

 

Appears that war has been raging on for 60 years now.. Korea. Time to come home..

 

buzzer sound wrong. We should leave when the area is settled in and comfortable. Don't think they're to that point just yet.

 

 

We'll all pay the bill on that one.. Humans have been struggling against it since the dawn of time. Since the first man clubbed another and saw the fear in the onlookers and what could be done with it.. Some things never change.

 

Survival of the fittest. We're the fittest, we should survive. Screw the rest of the world. We will do everything we have to do to remain the strongest and fittest. It's how nature intended things to be. enjoy being a member of the most elite country in the world instead of bashing it.

[snafu]

Well wez you just complained that Bush is going to give tech to Saudi and other nations which is true. We?re gonna give new stealth tech but in the same breath you complain that we are in counties we don?t belong in. I?m gonna say this again. This is a very dangerous time. We need to secure not only our boarders but our alias. The ones we trade with. The ones that give us intelligence. The neighbors of our advisories. The war in Korea is by far over. Yes we?ve made some ground in talks but N Korea is nuclear power. And there stability is crumbling.

[hugo]

It is wealth distribution, that is what politicians do. It is a campaign promise, that is what politicians do.

[wez]

Are you seriously blaming 9/11 on Americans? You have got to be joking. It's people like you, with this absurd thought process, that make me want to turn the whole of Saudi Arabia into glass. Go visit there... no, move there. You obviously love the area more than you like it here. I'll bet all this "money you've saved" would be much better for you there.

 

 

What the hell are you babbling about? I think the people that did it are responsible, and dead. Why should I move to Saudi Arabia? I'm an American.. I merely stated a FACT that we were targeted by mainly Saudis because of our military presence and bases located in Saudi Arabi. Maybe you should personally invite the Saudis to put a base in your town...

 

 

 

 

For what, for going in and removing an evil dictator. Not gonna happen.

 

For invading their country under false pretenses, destroying their infrastructure, and killing innocent people.

 

 

 

 

They can be suspicious, so long as they respect and follow the laws. They'll be able to elect their own in a few years.

 

How about they bully you into following their laws, tough guy?

 

 

buzzer sound wrong. We should leave when the area is settled in and comfortable. Don't think they're to that point just yet.

 

 

We aint settled and comfortable in our country yet, how do you plan to pull that off?

 

 

 

 

Survival of the fittest. We're the fittest, we should survive. Screw the rest of the world. We will do everything we have to do to remain the strongest and fittest. It's how nature intended things to be. enjoy being a member of the most elite country in the world instead of bashing it.

 

I don't subscribe to might = right. I know better.. people get to the point where they don't care if you threaten/kill them. They'll fly planes into your skyscrapers and kill themselves. Why do you think the truth is America bashing? Perhaps that should make you think..

[wez]

Well wez you just complained that Bush is going to give tech to Saudi and other nations which is true. We’re gonna give new stealth tech but in the same breath you complain that we are in counties we don’t belong in. I’m gonna say this again. This is a very dangerous time. We need to secure not only our boarders but our alias. The ones we trade with. The ones that give us intelligence. The neighbors of our advisories. The war in Korea is by far over. Yes we’ve made some ground in talks but N Korea is nuclear power. And there stability is crumbling.

 

 

Why can't I complain about both? I see no contradictions with that... Allies? We armed Saddam, Osama, Noriega, etc.. at one time or another... Killed one, hunting another, invaded Panama and imprisioned the third.. 16 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia... Lets sell them a nuke.. Good God. I wasn't really complaining.. I asked if it was smart. Like I said, what the hell do I know?

 

One thing I do know, might does not = right and fear does not = respect. Pretty much the opposite. Both lead to hate.. A fact of life.. Human nature.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

What the hell are you babbling about? I think the people that did it are responsible, and dead. Why should I move to Saudi Arabia? I'm an American.. I merely stated a FACT that we were targeted by mainly Saudis because of our military presence and bases located in Saudi Arabi. Maybe you should personally invite the Saudis to put a base in your town...

 

You're the one blaming Americans for the attacks that were perpetrated by Al Queada. I'm not the one who wants to be all buddy buddy with the saudi's. I'm not the one who thinks that we've done them wrong. You move their base into your town. I'll let them stay over there and let our soldiers stay there to help protect them.

 

 

 

 

For invading their country under false pretenses, destroying their infrastructure, and killing innocent people.

 

 

How about they thank us for moving in and providing them with the opportunity for a better life. How about they thank us for removing Saddam who was murdering his own innocent people for sport. How about you shut the hell up.

 

 

 

How about they bully you into following their laws, tough guy?

 

Let them come try. I KNOW that the laws I live by are just and right. I have means to protect myself. Tell them to bring it on.

 

 

 

We aint settled and comfortable in our country yet, how do you plan to pull that off?

 

Idk about you're conspiracy group, but I'm feelin pretty settled. I don't think America is going anywhere, anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

I don't subscribe to might = right. I know better.. people get to the point where they don't care if you threaten/kill them. They'll fly planes into your skyscrapers and kill themselves. Why do you think the truth is America bashing? Perhaps that should make you think..

 

Well, you don't subscribe to logic then. Your knowledge is flawed. I don't think you have to bash America to tell the truth. I think that you however, are bashing America. Perhaps THAT should make YOU think.

 

 

One thing I do know, might does not = right and fear does not = respect. Pretty much the opposite. Both lead to hate.. A fact of life.. Human nature.

 

And, like I proved just above... you'd be wrong.

[eddo]

I really like his ideas of bringing all American soldiers home from foriegn soil and focusing on ourselves..

 

 

Your military (Australia is planning to pull out) should be getting busy training a new Iraqi military (as they are) - but the onus of responsibility should be on American shoulders to help set up a national security structure that's stable, and if any deadline isn't met, then the flagellation should be purely self-inflicted.

Reneging on financial aid shouldn't be on the cards at all.

 

Well said.. an apology wouldn't hurt either.

 

So which is it wez? Do you want all the soldiers home, or do you want us (and our money) there helping to rebuild Iraq?

 

Because you just said both. Is your last name "Kerry"?

[wez]

You're the one blaming Americans for the attacks that were perpetrated by Al Queada. I'm not the one who wants to be all buddy buddy with the saudi's. I'm not the one who thinks that we've done them wrong. You move their base into your town. I'll let them stay over there and let our soldiers stay there to help protect them.

 

Am I? If you don't wanna be all buddy buddy the Saudi's, tell your president. I didn't say we did them wrong, I said that is why we were targeted. Many Saudi's don't like the Royal family, or our military support keeping them in power. I'll decide who I blame for what myself, thank you.

 

 

 

 

How about they thank us for moving in and providing them with the opportunity for a better life. How about they thank us for removing Saddam who was murdering his own innocent people for sport. How about you shut the hell up.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure you'd thank them for doing the same to you..

 

 

 

Let them come try. I KNOW that the laws I live by are just and right. I have means to protect myself. Tell them to bring it on.

 

 

Hahahaha... how about they do the exact same to you. The laws will be just and right then. Tell em to bring it on yourself, tough guy..

 

 

 

Idk about you're conspiracy group, but I'm feelin pretty settled. I don't think America is going anywhere, anytime soon.

 

What conspiracy group is that?

 

 

 

Well, you don't subscribe to logic then. Your knowledge is flawed. I don't think you have to bash America to tell the truth. I think that you however, are bashing America. Perhaps THAT should make YOU think.

 

 

Come back when you get a little life experience junior.. how old were you for Gulf war 1? Did you experience the 80's when Saddam was our buddy and Rummy was shaking his hand for a photo op? Why don't you explain the soundness in the logic that might = right so I can laugh at you...

 

 

 

And, like I proved just above... you'd be wrong.

 

You proved nothing but your idiocy.. your tough guy act doesn't intimidate me or change my mind, or make you right.

[wez]

So which is it wez? Do you want all the soldiers home, or do you want us (and our money) there helping to rebuild Iraq?

 

Because you just said both. Is your last name "Kerry"?

 

 

I'd like the soldiers home.. let them keep their oil, and we should pay for the damage we inflicted, as if that's possible. We don't need to be there (with our money) helping to rebuild Iraq..Our money can survive without us there with it. Haliburtons got enough of our tax dollars already. They are capable of building things themselves however they want to build them. Soldiers weren't trained to rebuild houses and infrastructure, they were trained to destroy it. If they wanna hire American companies in the free market to rebuild, fine. Should be their choice. I don't think guns make good hammers.

[timesjoke]

Certainly not by continuing to use force.. that is their, Al Qaida's/Osama's main problem with us in the first place. Just our presence alone infuriated him to devise the 9/11 plan..

 

 

Well, we know Bin Laden would never lie about somehting like that right?

 

 

I mean he kills children, targets women or any other innocent to create the most terror possible. But he is too good and pure to tell lies about his motives right?

 

 

And some people wonder why I am so impatient with liberals...........

 

 

 

 

Someone tell Wez that trusting the word of a terrorist may not be a smart move.

[snafu]

We armed Saddam....

 

 

Arms Supplies

 

Part of this military expenditure was used to purchase arms from overseas. During the first half of the 1980s, Iraq was the world's biggest importer of major weapons systems and it remained second, behind India, in 1986 and 1987. A report by SIPRI in 1987 identified twenty-six countries which had supplied arms both to Iraq and to Iran. These countries were: Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Britain, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, France, West Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, North Korea, the Netherlands, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the USA, the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. In addition, twelve countries had supplied only Iran while four countries had sold only to Iraq - Egypt, Ethiopia, Jordan and the Philippines. Not all of these deals were done with the knowledge or support of the government of the country concerned.

 

Soviet Union and France

 

The long list above however conceals the fact that just two countries supplied most of Saddam's arsenal. According to the SIPRI Yearbook in 1989, equipment from the Soviet Union accounted for 47% and France 28% of Iraq's major weapons systems during the Iran-Iraq War. The Soviet supplies included tanks, artillery systems, helicopters and missiles, as well as advanced MiG aircraft. (Jane's Defence Weekly, 18.8.90) Mirage and Super Etendard aircraft and Exocet missiles as well as helicopters and missiles were sold by French companies.

 

 

 

Viva La France!

[wez]

UNITED STATES ARMS SALES TO IRAQ: EXCERPTS OF RECENT CBS `60 MINUTES' BROADCAST (House of Representatives - January 31, 1991)

 

[Page: H836]

The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Owens of Utah). Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Moody] is recognized for 5 minutes.

 

Mr. MOODY. Mr. Speaker, on Sunday, January 20, the CBS television network program `60 Minutes' broadcast an extraordinary interview with an international arms dealer, Sarkis Soghanalian, who lives in Miami. I am placing in the Record a transcript of key excerpts from that interview.

 

The revelations and allegations made by Mr. Soghanalian are, and must be, extremely disturbing to every American. They are disturbing to Mr. Soghanalian. He gives a first-hand description of official and unofficial American involvement in the enormous buildup of arms to Saddam Hussein. Much of this buildup occurred after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. He gives chilling accounts of the cozy relationship among high past and present U.S. Government officials who permitted, and in some cases, actually assisted his sales of many of the lethal weapons Saddam Hussein is now using to bring death to American military personnel and civilians throughout the Middle East region.

 

I congratulate the staff of `60 Minutes' for bringing this explosive matter to the attention of the American public. Executive producer Don Hewitt, producer Lowell Bergman, and on-air reporter Steve Kroft have raised profound questions in this piece that demand further investigation.

 

Mr. Speaker, last week, after his interview on `60 Minutes' I traveled to Miami to spend a day with Mr. Soghanalian exploring in greater detail many of the issues he touched on in the TV broadcast. At a later time I will share some of these items with the Congress. At this time, I can only say to my colleagues that the outline contained in the following excerpts from the `60 Minutes' broadcast only scratches the surface of where and how the dictator Saddam Hussein acquired the deadly weapons he is now using against American and allied soldiers in the gulf war.

 

If our fears of a protracted ground war in Iraq are borne out--and I hope they won't be--hundreds and perhaps thousands of American soldiers will be wounded or killed by weapons our own Government helped Saddam Hussein acquire. Toward the end of this excerpted interview Mr. Soghanalian discusses the weaponry he has sold Iraq with the direct involvement and cooperation of various U.S. Government agencies.

 

Mr. Speaker, this matter calls out for further investigation.

 

Mr. Soghanalian is to be commended for his openness and his willingness to bring out into the open this most disturbing issue of the U.S. Government's role in arming Saddam Hussein.

 

Mr. Speaker, I include for the Record the transcript of the `60 Minutes' interview.

 

[Page: H837]

 

The Man Who Armed Iraq

Kroft. Sarkis Soghanalian is the arms dealer who armed Iraq. During the war between Iraq and Iran, despite a worldwide embargo, Sarkis sold billions in arms to Saddam Hussein.

 

This Lebanese Armenian has made a career out of breaking international embargoes--supplying arms to countries and groups with whom the United States in particular--did not want to be seen with in public.

 

Filling that niche made him rich. And supplying Iraq made him during the 1980s the largest private arms dealer in the world.

 

As you would imagine, Sarkis's intimate relationship with Iraq's military gives him unique insight into their strategy. For a couple of days earlier this week, he talked with us about the arms he sold to Saddam Hussein and gave us what his assessment of what might be in store for our own troops.

 

Sarkis. Iraqi troops will never surrender to foreign troops. If they use Egyptians on a front line, you know, for psychological reason, maybe Iraqi soldier will say, I am surrendering to another brother, but to surrender to a foreign troop like Germans or French or American, they don't . . . they will fight to their last bullet.

 

 

continued below..

[wez]

Continued....

 

Kroft. Sarkis Soghanalian not only provided weapons to Iraq, he inspected the front lines regularly during the war with Iran, checked out captured equipment, even helped develop Iraq's military strategy. The day before the war began, Sarkis told us in his Miami office that Iraq would, in fact, put up little or no resistance to U.S. air power. But his predictions about a ground war that is almost sure to follow are not so rosy.

 

Sarkis. The United States is facing hard core, tough battlefield trained ground forces.

 

Kroft. It's not going to be like Grenada?

 

Sarkis. No. Grenada was a vacation. Panama was the same way. This is not Panama, this is not Grenada. And you're fighting a different kind of people.

 

Kroft. What do you mean . . . ?

 

Sarkis. Well, Iraqi soldiers can go into the desert, into sand, and sit for two, three days. They don't need no heavy arms. They don't need no distilled water, no bottled water, you know. They can get milk out of a camel and survive, but they will dig in and wait for us to come in.

 

Kroft. Sarkis thinks the real battle will come when allied troops try to push the Iraqis out of populated areas like Kuwait City.

 

Sarkis. How we gonna kick those guys out of the houses? It's

gonna be like Berlin, wall to wall, and room to room . . . they will try to cause as much personal casualties as they can in order to embarrass our leaders here. That's their tactic. This is what's gonna be concentrated on. And Air Force superiority electronics-wise, maybe they jam all their equipment, that's . . . they don't care about that. But the major aim is how much casualty they can cause. . . . The [American] equipment is advanced equipment, but it is not for this war. You are not fighting in a climate like European climate, your fighting heat, rain, dust. It won't work.

 

Kroft. Sarkis says the equipment he sold to Iraq has been customized to withstand the heat and sand and dust of the Middle East. He says Iraq's military hardware may be more reliable.

 

Sarkis. Because it's not electronic . . . it's conventional weapons. Just like their tanks. They don't have air conditioning, no stabilizer, no nothing. They just, you know, the old-fashioned conventional thing. They dig a hole, they circle a couple of times, they make a hole. They sit there like a sniper and wait for the enemy to come in. And they have artillery superiority.

 

Kroft. You sold the Iraqis quite a bit of artillery, French artillery . . . the 155 Howitzer . . self propelled?

 

Sarkis. Yes.

 

Kroft. Why is it superior to anything the United States has?

 

Sarkis. We do not have the same range as this vehicle . . . this gun has. It's modified to 42 kilometers [25 miles]. What do we have in the field to match this gun?

 

Kroft. The Iraqis have a 20 kilometer [12 mile] advantage in terms of artillery range.

 

Sarkis. Yeah. They can fight from a distance.

 

Kroft. And Sarkis says that the French artillery pieces he sold to Iraq, over one hundred of them, are backed by thousands of specially modified Soviet long-range cannons, as well as advanced artillery purchased from South Africa by way of Austria. Sarkis used Austria as a middle man to get around U.N. sanctions against South Africa. A lot of different people had their hands in this, one way or another.

 

Sarkis. Oh, yeah the . . . the . . . war game.

 

Kroft. What do you mean the war game?

 

Sarkis. Well, some people lose blood, some people make money. That's why I don't want to get involved in this war. I don't want to make money on . . .

 

Kroft. You're already involved in this war, aren't you?

 

Sarkis. Well, I don't look at it that way.

 

Kroft. A lot of that equipment that's facing the United States right now was sold to the Iraqis by you, Sarkis.

 

Sarkis. Yeah, but I didn't sell it eight years ago to fight ourselves today. That was sold to fight Khomeini. And we were against Khomeini. U.S. had hostages there, and I said, I'll go ahead and take my share in it.

 

Kroft. So you sold the weapons to the Iraqis to fight the. . .

 

Sarkis. Khomeinis . . . not to fight the, you know, Americans.

 

Kroft. Right. Because that would be best for America . . . and best maybe for Sarkis.

 

Sarkis. Well, you get compensated sometimes. There's nothing wrong with that. And if Sarkis wouldn't do it, somebody else would do it.

 

Kroft. And other arms dealers and countries did. Brazil provided thousands of armored vehicles. China and the Soviet Union sent tanks, missiles and munitions. German companies sold Saddam poison gas technology, and France, not only approved the sale of artillery to Iraq, but [also sold] armed helicopters and antiaircraft missile systems.

 

This Chilean arms manufacturer [shown on screen] sold Saddam deadly cluster bombs--reportedly with technical assistance from U.S. companies, and the United States allowed American computer technology to go to Iraq as well. It allowed Sarkis to sell Hughes and Bell helicopters. The U.S. government approved the sale after Iraq promised that they would only be used for civilian purposes. Sarkis told us that the helicopters were used as transportation during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

 

Sarkis. I did it with the knowledge of U.S. authorities, policy makers--and also they have delivered weapons that are equally weapons as I did. I do not have anything on my conscience. I did not sell the weapons to kill the American boys.

 

Kroft. Which agencies of the U.S. government knew about Sarkis and his deals with Iraq? Well, according to Sarkis, almost all of them. And federal court documents show that Sarkis Soghanalian had a relationship with U.S. intelligence agencies for decades, and has performed work on their behalf.

 

Not all of Sarkis's deals with Iraq involve weapons. He arranged the sale of $280 million in uniforms to the Iraqi army. And Sarkis's partners in the deal included former Vice President Spiro Agnew, a former Attorney General, Colonel Jack Brennan.

 

The partners used their influence to get ex-President Nixon to provide them with these letters of introduction [shown on screen] to heads of state around the world.

 

[To Sarkis] Do you think there was anything unusual about a former Vice President and a former Attorney General and a former Chief of Staff for the President of the United Stateas to want to be selling military uniforms to the Iraqis?

 

Sarkis. They were not only in the uniform business. They would sell their mothers if they could, just to make the money.

 

Kroft. Some of his partners in that deal aren't talking to him

at all today. They're in court suing Sarkis over the multimillion dollar commissions they say he hasn't paid them

 

... [To Sarkis] Are you a Merchant of Death? You are an arms salesman.

 

Sarkis. No. I am a coordinator of industries that produce arms. But I am not a salesman. I don't carry no bag. I don't carry no catalogue in my pocket to sell arms to anybody.

 

Kroft. Why did this international arms dealer [sarkis]--who is currently under federal indictment in Miami--decide to talk with us? Well, Sarkis says this is one war he doesn't want any part of.

 

Sarkis. No, this war stinks. It's not to anybody's advantage. I don't know who's advising who. This is a dirty war for us. What are we gonna do with Kuwait? We lose so many men, and next spring the Emir of Kuwait is sitting in Monaco, in Monte Carlo, happy with European girls. I'd fight for anybody that I have faith in. ... The man has 80 wives. Which one can he love, you know, if he's raising a family or a country? What do you owe the Emir of Kuwait? Why? For all this much sacrifice, or for prestige?

 

Kroft. Which do you think?

 

Sarkis. I think it's for ego, somebody's ego. ...

 

Kroft. You don't think it's worth committing a half a million American troops to ...

 

Sarkis. Hell no. ... go to die for this garbage war, no way, not me. I obey my country. I obey my President. He's a lovely man. He's a good man. He's, ah, intelligent person, but how he's making this decision, I don't know.

 

Kroft. And Sarkis Soghanalian made a decision too. He says Iraq has approached him about breaking the current embargo and selling them more arms. He says he's not running their phone calls.

 

Sarkis. It against my principle ... to go against U.S. policy. I'm staying away 100 percent now because I don't want to supply them with nothing. No spare parts or nothing. No vehicles, no shoes, no clothes, no nothing because they will support the enemy of today. A friend of yesterday is an enemy of today.

 

 

[Page: H838]

... Kroft. And tomorrow?

 

Sarkis. Who knows? Maybe a friend again.

 

Kroft [closing]. For the last three years Sarkis Soghanalian has been under a federal indictment for--among other things--conspiring to sell 300 American-built Hughes combat helicopters to Iraq.

 

The case has been stalled largely because U.S. intelligence agencies have been reluctant to turn over classified files that Sarkis says he needs to conduct his defense.

 

END

 

 

Viva la Everybody!

[snafu]

And thats what I'm talking about. We can't sit back idol and think nothing can happen to us. We have to be aware of whats going on. We need to be a friend of our enemies enemy. Even if it changes from time to time. We wanted a free Iraq but it didn't turn out that way. The Baathis party came to power and changed everything.

[wez]

And thats what I'm talking about. We can't sit back idol and think nothing can happen to us. We have to be aware of whats going on. We need to be a friend of our enemies enemy. Even if it changes from time to time. We wanted a free Iraq but it didn't turn out that way. The Baathis party came to power and changed everything.

 

 

Yeah, they came into power in 1963..