Abortion Arguments For/Against

[wez]

My point exactly, the first step is to admit you have a problem before you can repair that problem.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

 

 

 

To face the responsibility of the "choice" they made.

 

And if they have an abortion against your orders?

 

 

 

 

 

So a baby is breaking and entering without permission

 

You come up with the most rediclious examples Wez.

 

In this situation, the neighbor would have been invited in to live and then killed without warning to make it similar to an abortion.

 

You're the one who brought up the ridiculous neighbor example.. Yours was good, mine was rediclious?

 

Lets say you were drunk and invited your neighbor in and changed your mind and asked him to leave and he refused... Then he tells you not only is he staying, but he's taking up residency in your abdominal cavity for 9 months, after which you will take care of him and love him unconditionally for the next 18 years, all validated by your other neighbor who tells you, "you made the choice when you invited him in". Have a good day...

 

 

 

See, more control freak games, why can't you just be straight up and give up the 3 year old games?

 

Exactly...

 

 

 

 

 

So far, but the future has endless possibilities, I don't intend to ever do something to deserve my being killed, but sometimes stuff happens.

 

Who decides? Who's your master?

 

 

 

My point is you constantly ignore the motivations and reasons for actions so you can lump them all together and call them the same, this is one of my biggest problems with you.

 

Hahahahahahaha... Role reversal!!! You sweet talker you....

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, while your very irritating most of the time, if you could learn to not put so much exagerated garbage into your posts, you would actually be a good part of the forum, so as long as your directly talking to me, I will keep beating my head against the wall trying to point out where your missing the points.

 

Then logically make sense and stop lumping all women who have abortions into your garbage pile..

 

 

 

But it was very nice to not have to do that for awile.

 

Glad I could be of service..

 

 

 

Again, if you could just stop eith the personal attacks and rediclious extremes, your points would be easier to accept, but you mix your good views with extreme possitions like calling all soldiers blind killers, this makes everything you say to get branded with the same description of over the top.

 

 

Time to take off the thorny crown and move beyond my soldier statment.. My point is, if YOU are going to call your enemies, murderers, you are calling yourself a murderer... Whatever you judge them, you judge that for yourself, not them.. Understand?

 

You can go on a rant and beat your head on the wall about the differences I don't understand now... You're TJ, they're them?

[timesjoke]

What the hell are you talking about?

 

Exactly my point, you don't see childish games as bad so you cannot fix the problem. Recognition of your problem is the first step to becoming a better person in every aspect of life. The most effective alcohol abuse programs all start with admitting you have a problem, there is a clue for you there is you are willing to see it.

 

 

And if they have an abortion against your orders?

 

That would be determined by society the same as any murder committed. Society has rules, all I can do is offer my perspective to the whole for consideration.

 

 

Butl if it was up to me, I would not so much punnish the woman as much as I would punnish those doctors who perform the abortions with penalties so harsh no doctor would perform. I would also set up a system that would reward those who report the illegal abortions so you now have millions of people all looking to make money by turning in a baby killer.

 

 

All you will have then is some trying to do abortions at home, and we still have a few of those even with abortion being legal. I feel bad that some woman allow themselves to get to that point but remember, it was their "choice" to let this happen.

 

 

I already covered my acceptance of abortion where the woman had no choice.

 

 

You're the one who brought up the ridiculous neighbor example.. Yours was good, mine was rediclious?

 

Lets say you were drunk and invited your neighbor in and changed your mind and asked him to leave and he refused... Then he tells you not only is he staying, but he's taking up residency in your abdominal cavity for 9 months, after which you will take care of him and love him unconditionally for the next 18 years, all validated by your other neighbor who tells you, "you made the choice when you invited him in". Have a good day...

 

You cannot be serious.

 

That is a prime example of your rediclious possitions on things and why your viewed as an idiot.

 

How can you compare an innocent life to a drunk taking over your home?

 

By making the choice to have risky sex, the woman decided the risks were worth the pleasure at the time. The abortion is the escape she wants for the decision and choice she already made out of irresponsibility.

 

 

 

 

Who decides? Who's your master?

 

Society, we all must live within the rules set forth. Today, abortion is legal and I have to accept that, but as a citizen, I have the right to speak out against things I do not agree with and push for change.

 

This is what I am doing.

 

 

Then logically make sense and stop lumping all women who have abortions into your garbage pile..

 

I'm not, please try to pay attention, it will make these discussions easier with less repeating.

 

I am on record for supporting abortion in the cases where there is no irresponsibility, sure, I would like to see life have a chance, but if the woman has no direct responsibility for her getting pregnant (rape for example) then I would not blame her for wanting an abortion.

 

 

 

 

Glad I could be of service..

 

But as they say, all good things come to an end.

 

 

 

Time to take off the thorny crown and move beyond my soldier statment.. My point is, if YOU are going to call your enemies, murderers, you are calling yourself a murderer... Whatever you judge them, you judge that for yourself, not them.. Understand?

 

I understand that is your view, you are not capable of seeing a differance between killing Ted Bundy or killing an innocent child, to you, it is all the same and you make no distinction for intent or mindset.

 

 

I on the other hand do see a huge difference and so do most people (thank God) in the world.

 

You can go on a rant and beat your head on the wall about the differences I don't understand now... You're TJ, they're them?

 

No, I live in reality, you don't.

 

But you could go back to blocking me again so you don't need to worry about it, I guess you like the attention too much for that though.

[wez]

Exactly my point, you don't see childish games as bad so you cannot fix the problem. Recognition of your problem is the first step to becoming a better person in every aspect of life. The most effective alcohol abuse programs all start with admitting you have a problem, there is a clue for you there is you are willing to see it.

 

I see them, and quite enjoy them.. perhaps you have the problem seeing them in the first place?

 

 

 

 

That would be determined by society the same as any murder committed. Society has rules, all I can do is offer my perspective to the whole for consideration.

 

 

Butl if it was up to me, I would not so much punnish the woman as much as I would punnish those doctors who perform the abortions with penalties so harsh no doctor would perform. I would also set up a system that would reward those who report the illegal abortions so you now have millions of people all looking to make money by turning in a baby killer.

 

Good thing it's not up to you..

 

 

All you will have then is some trying to do abortions at home, and we still have a few of those even with abortion being legal. I feel bad that some woman allow themselves to get to that point but remember, it was their "choice" to let this happen.

 

 

I already covered my acceptance of abortion where the woman had no choice.

 

Some women make mistakes.. birth control fails, women get drunk and loose and have regrets and fertilized eggs in the morn.. Such is life.

 

 

 

 

You cannot be serious.

 

That is a prime example of your rediclious possitions on things and why your viewed as an idiot.

 

How can you compare an innocent life to a drunk taking over your home?

 

By making the choice to have risky sex, the woman decided the risks were worth the pleasure at the time. The abortion is the escape she wants for the decision and choice she already made out of irresponsibility.

 

 

 

A drunk didn't invade your abdominal cavity and home, YOU are the irresponsible drunk that invited him in and then regretted it.. You made your chioce. Live with it..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Society, we all must live within the rules set forth. Today, abortion is legal and I have to accept that, but as a citizen, I have the right to speak out against things I do not agree with and push for change.

 

This is what I am doing.

 

You wanna push for a change and make a difference? Open your home to all the unwanted children already born..

 

 

 

 

I'm not, please try to pay attention, it will make these discussions easier with less repeating.

 

I am on record for supporting abortion in the cases where there is no irresponsibility, sure, I would like to see life have a chance, but if the woman has no direct responsibility for her getting pregnant (rape for example) then I would not blame her for wanting an abortion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But as they say, all good things come to an end.

 

 

 

 

 

I understand that is your view, you are not capable of seeing a differance between killing Ted Bundy or killing an innocent child, to you, it is all the same and you make no distinction for intent or mindset.

 

 

I on the other hand do see a huge difference and so do most people (thank God) in the world.

 

 

 

No, I live in reality, you don't.

 

But you could go back to blocking me again so you don't need to worry about it, I guess you like the attention too much for that though.

 

 

 

I'm bored.. What else you got?

[timesjoke]

 

Some women make mistakes.. birth control fails, women get drunk and loose and have regrets and fertilized eggs in the morn.. Such is life.

 

And they want to force the life growing in their womb to pay for their mistake with their life.

 

Selfish right?

 

 

Your so fast to call all killing murder, then do the same for this. Killing is killing right?

 

 

 

A drunk didn't invade your abdominal cavity and home, YOU are the irresponsible drunk that invited him in and then regretted it.. You made your chioce. Live with it..

 

In a weird kind of way, this is what I'm saying the woman should do. If she got drunk or not, she decided risky sex was a good idea and my possition is she should have to pay for her irresponsible decision just like the reso of the world for other irresponsible decisions.

 

 

You wanna push for a change and make a difference? Open your home to all the unwanted children already born..

 

I do and my church runs two places for children in other Countries.

 

There is no problem finding homes for infants, older children yes, but not infants. Some Cities like New York have waiting lists that go for years.

[Jhony5]

Should abortion be used to support eugenics in cases of serious genetic flaws? In other words, if a fetus can be shown to have a serious genetic flaw passed down from the parents, should the fetus be exterminated and the parents not be allowed to procreate defective babies?

 

Isn't that a form of child abuse, to purposely have children that are defective and will be a burden to society? Would this be an act of mercy?

[wez]

How did I get credited with starting this trainwreck of a thread waiting to happen?

[wez]

Should abortion be used to support eugenics in cases of serious genetic flaws? In other words, if a fetus can be shown to have a serious genetic flaw passed down from the parents, should the fetus be exterminated and the parents not be allowed to procreate defective babies?

 

Isn't that a form of child abuse, to purposely have children that are defective and will be a burden to society? Would this be an act of mercy?

 

 

Not only that but what about "designer" babies? Manipulating the sex, traits, etc.. ?

[snafu]

Haha... I was wondering if someone was gonna start another thread for this topic. I was this close to doing it myself.

[snafu]

..........

 

Butl if it was up to me, I would not so much punnish the woman as much as I would punnish those doctors who perform the abortions with penalties so harsh no doctor would perform. I would also set up a system that would reward those who report the illegal abortions so you now have millions of people all looking to make money by turning in a baby killer.

 

 

All you will have then is some trying to do abortions at home, and we still have a few of those even with abortion being legal. I feel bad that some woman allow themselves to get to that point but remember, it was their "choice" to let this happen.

....

 

Amen brother.

 

Murder charges for the doctors and the same for the bathtube, coathanger murders too.

[ImWithStupid]

How did I get credited with starting this trainwreck of a thread waiting to happen?

 

I started it because the MLK/Naptime thread was taking an abortion derail. Your post just happen to be as far back as I went when moving the posts here.

[timesjoke]

Should abortion be used to support eugenics in cases of serious genetic flaws? In other words, if a fetus can be shown to have a serious genetic flaw passed down from the parents, should the fetus be exterminated and the parents not be allowed to procreate defective babies?

 

Isn't that a form of child abuse, to purposely have children that are defective and will be a burden to society? Would this be an act of mercy?

 

Who is to say a child born with genetic flaw is not valuable?

 

All life is valuable in my opinion, not just the perfect babies.

 

 

My neighbor has a down syndrome child, he comes over sometimes to play with my kids, I could not imagine killing him just because he is not like other kids.

[ImWithStupid]

He's got a touch of the downs.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PazOvSOezcI]YouTube - Donnie The Retard[/ame]

 

Sorry, I had to do it.

[eddo]

My neighbor has a down syndrome child, he comes over sometimes to play with my kids, I could not imagine killing him just because he is not like other kids.

 

While mom was pregnant, my parents were told that my baby sis would have Down Syndrome, and that she should be aborted to spare what would likely be a very dangerous delivery. Mom and dad said no, and while sis was born 6 weeks early, she is today a completely normal 18 year old girl- starting her second semester of college where she wants to become an elementary school teacher.

 

Doctors ain't always right- and life is precious.

[Jhony5]

Who is to say a child born with genetic flaw is not valuable?

 

All life is valuable in my opinion, not just the perfect babies.

 

 

My neighbor has a down syndrome child, he comes over sometimes to play with my kids, I could not imagine killing him just because he is not like other kids.

 

Would our society not be better off without birth defects being dumped into the gene pool? You ever wonder why animals very seldom have severe birth defects and/or mental retardation? Because they are weeded out.

 

I know the ethics of eugenics is dubious at best. Nazi-esque perhaps. But the benefit to society is an inescapable logic. It is not about "perfection". Rather defection.

 

Evolution is a key component in all this. We, the human race, use technology and compassion to adversely affect the evolution of our species.

 

All this being said, I find eugenics to be a monstrous practice as for it to be effective would require acts of murder. I would not wish for my child to be executed just because he/she had been diagnosed with down syndrome. However the decision to have this tainted fruit would lead to a rotted branch on my family tree.

[timesjoke]

Doctors ain't always right- and life is precious.

 

Amen brother.

 

 

Would our society not be better off without birth defects being dumped into the gene pool? You ever wonder why animals very seldom have severe birth defects and/or mental retardation? Because they are weeded out.

 

I know the ethics of eugenics is dubious at best. Nazi-esque perhaps. But the benefit to society is an inescapable logic. It is not about "perfection". Rather defection.

 

Evolution is a key component in all this. We, the human race, use technology and compassion to adversely affect the evolution of our species.

 

All this being said, I find eugenics to be a monstrous practice as for it to be effective would require acts of murder. I would not wish for my child to be executed just because he/she had been diagnosed with down syndrome. However the decision to have this tainted fruit would lead to a rotted branch on my family tree.

 

 

We define ourselves by how we treat the helpless.

 

If we can kill the most helpless life, we are truly lost as a society.

 

I believe having the very old, the very sick, and the not so perfect people (like down syndrome) gives society perspective.

 

We can learn a lot from the "weak" if we take the time to try.

 

 

 

Again, do we only love perfect life? If your missing a finger, an arm, maybe your foot is deformed, maybe your mind did not come out perfect, maybe your ear is twisted the wrong way, maybe your born deaf or blind, do we say any of these things are grounds to kill them?

 

 

I do not care about people (or not care) because of the way they look or talk, or think.

 

 

 

Being completely honest, I believe the only reason the government allows abortion is because all the law makers see the unwanted children as a tax burdon. The average woman getting an abortion is poor or at least not a high earner and most of the time, their never married so a single mother with a child she never wanted is seen as destined to suck heavily on the government tit.

 

 

It is a first level population control method to slow down the increased population of the poor.

 

In my opinion.

[Jhony5]

Very well said, TJ. I'd give ya some rep for that, but this confounded rep system won't let me.

[snafu]

Should abortion be used to support eugenics in cases of serious genetic flaws? In other words, if a fetus can be shown to have a serious genetic flaw passed down from the parents, should the fetus be exterminated and the parents not be allowed to procreate defective babies?

 

Isn't that a form of child abuse, to purposely have children that are defective and will be a burden to society? Would this be an act of mercy?

 

No. And they are learning to de-code the gentic DNA where they say they can take genitic flaws out before birth. Why abort when you can correct.

[snafu]

......

 

Being completely honest, I believe the only reason the government allows abortion is because all the law makers see the unwanted children as a tax burdon. The average woman getting an abortion is poor or at least not a high earner and most of the time, their never married so a single mother with a child she never wanted is seen as destined to suck heavily on the government tit.

 

 

It is a first level population control method to slow down the increased population of the poor.

 

In my opinion.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

On top of that you have people that can't take care of their so called inconveniences.

[eddo]

Would our society not be better off without birth defects being dumped into the gene pool? You ever wonder why animals very seldom have severe birth defects and/or mental retardation? Because they are weeded out.

 

Man has a history of not being able to control himself enough for this.

 

 

Sure you and I would acknowledge downs syndrome, cerebral palsy and other things as viable birth defects, but some consider being Jewish a birth defect. or being black. or female. or short. or ugly.

 

I think that is to dangerous a slope to start sliding down.

[snafu]

Man has a history of not being able to control himself enough for this.

 

 

Sure you and I would acknowledge downs syndrome, cerebral palsy and other things as viable birth defects, but some consider being Jewish a birth defect. or being black. or female. or short. or ugly.

 

I think that is to dangerous a slope to start sliding down.

 

 

Hay I take offense to the being short defect!

[Jhony5]

Hay I take offense to the being short defect!

 

Don't feel bad, Snaffy. I have a giant penis defect.

[timesjoke]

Don't feel bad, Snaffy. I have a giant penis defect.

 

Too bad it's under your hat.......

 

 

I could not resist, lol.

[Jhony5]

Too bad it's under your hat.......

 

 

I could not resist, lol.

 

[attach=full]1595[/attach]

 

Why whatever do you mean?

[atlantic]

While mom was pregnant, my parents were told that my baby sis would have Down Syndrome, and that she should be aborted to spare what would likely be a very dangerous delivery. Mom and dad said no, and while sis was born 6 weeks early, she is today a completely normal 18 year old girl- starting her second semester of college where she wants to become an elementary school teacher.

 

Doctors ain't always right- and life is precious.

I love this story. I'm glad everything turned out all right Eddo.

[atlantic]

I wish it were that simple to not have abortions, but factors such as rape, neglectful-abusive parents have changed my mind. I have a stepbrother who is a lifer in jail for murder because of his upbringing, he was taken away from my mother (rightfully so) at a very young age due to neglect, then he went from foster home to foster home and was raped and abused. He was sent to prison in his early 20s, and escapes every 10 years or so. His life was and still is hell. I've also seen so many men and women neglect their children due to addictions or pure selfishness that it makes me sick. They also seem to get away with it, and the children grow up sad, with no self-esteem, and usually become drug addicts too. I'd rather see a child stay with god then grow up like that. People need to be responsible from the get go, getting drunk and pregnant is inexcusable imo, when you know that you could create a life you need to take that seriously and prepare for it.