Minnesota High School Cancels "Heros Tour".

[ImWithStupid]

Why doesn't Minnesota just bite the bullet and become it's own socialist country, like they obviously want to do.

 

Forest Lake event canceled; too political

 

Forest Lake High's principal said the decision was spurred by concerns that the presentation was more political than educational.

 

By ALLIE SHAH , Star Tribune

 

Last update: March 25, 2008 - 8:27 AM

 

A national tour featuring decorated veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan won't be stopping at Forest Lake Area High School today as planned, after school leaders abruptly canceled the visit.

 

Steve Massey, the school principal, said the decision to cancel was prompted by concerns that the event was becoming political rather than educational and therefore was not suitable for a public school.

 

He said the school had received several phone calls from parents and others, some of whom indicated that they may stage a protest if the event took place.

 

"The event was structured to be an academic classroom discussion around military service. We thought we'd provide an opportunity for kids to learn about service in the context of our history classes," Massey said. "As the day progressed, it became clear that this was becoming a political event ... which would be inappropriate in a public setting.

"We decided to cancel," Massey said. Organizers of the National Heroes Tour then scrambled to relocate the event to the American Legion building in Forest Lake. The visit, which U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Stillwater, had been scheduled to attend, is sponsored by Vets for Freedom, a national organization run by Pete Hegseth, a 1999 graduate of Forest Lake Area High School who served with the 101st Airborne in Iraq in 2005-06.

 

Forest Lake event canceled; too political

 

I like how they claim it was some large amount of pressure that caused the school to cancel the tour, but in reality it was a few phone calls and around six emails.

 

They also said it was because the tour was "too political". Uniformed soldiers are not allowd to take a political stance and when they moved the tour to the local American Legion, 250 students came to see it and spoke about how the teachers at their school, often preach political rhetoric and even show Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth movie at the school. But the soldiers talking about what they saw and experienced in Afganistan and Iraq is too political for the high school.

[wez]

Why doesn't Minnesota just bite the bullet and become it's own socialist country, like they obviously want to do.

 

 

 

Forest Lake event canceled; too political

 

I like how they claim it was some large amount of pressure that caused the school to cancel the tour, but in reality it was a few phone calls and around six emails.

 

They also said it was because the tour was "too political". Uniformed soldiers are not allowd to take a political stance and when they moved the tour to the local American Legion, 250 students came to see it and spoke about how the teachers at their school, often preach political rhetoric and even show Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth movie at the school. But the soldiers talking about what they saw and experienced in Afganistan and Iraq is too political for the high school.

 

 

Interesting.. not too far from me.. pretty close to the Twin cities. Buddy used to live there on the lake.. Kinda goes to show how unpopular the war/s are.. Changing landscape, that's for certain. Plus, the "squeaky wheel" usually gets the grease. Either way, good to learn.. too bad.

 

Some were maybe thinking it would turn into a recruitment session too.. hard to say. Prolly would have. They were struggling for recruits years ago..

 

I see no problem if it was by choice to attend.. required attendance, nope.

 

Do you think something like this should be a required "class activity" IWS? Pretty strong feelings associated when it comes to killing human beings..

[ImWithStupid]

Do you think something like this should be a required "class activity" IWS? Pretty strong feelings associated when it comes to killing human beings..

 

No, but I also don't think teachers should push their personal political views on students any more then they should push their personal religious views on students, or should be playing An Inconvenient Truth, which is a completely political film, on par with anything put out by Michael Moore, in school

 

Appearantly, I'm not alone...

 

[attach=full]1937[/attach]

[wez]

No, but I also don't think teachers should push their personal political views on students any more then they should push their personal religious views on students, or should be playing An Inconvenient Truth, which is a completely political film, on par with anything put out by Michael Moore, in school

 

Appearantly, I'm not alone...

 

 

Totally agree.. make it a choice. They should have every right. Just don't punish those not wanting to participate..

 

I really didn't think Al (I invented the internet) Gore's movie was really political per say.. Didn't really endorse a political party over another.. Was pretty much trying to include everyone I think. I didn't notice him lay blame on anyone in particular.

[Old Salt]

Totally agree.. make it a choice. They should have every right. Just don't punish those not wanting to participate..

 

I really didn't think Al (I invented the internet) Gore's movie was really political per say.. Didn't really endorse a political party over another.. Was pretty much trying to include everyone I think. I didn't notice him lay blame on anyone in particular.

Purely Propaganda.

[ImWithStupid]

I really didn't think Al (I invented the internet) Gore's movie was really political per say.. Didn't really endorse a political party over another.. Was pretty much trying to include everyone I think. I didn't notice him lay blame on anyone in particular.

 

I never said it promoted one party over another, but it definitely was a political movie. Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me didn't promote one party or another, but were definitely political movies.

[wez]

I never said it promoted one party over another, but it definitely was a political movie. Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me didn't promote one party or another, but were definitely political movies.

 

 

We gotta draw the line somewhere? hahaha.. we can't ban government and civics classes.. they are political.

 

Might have to start giving as much time for study of the communist manifesto here in MN.. Hahaha

 

Roger and me was great.

 

Purely Propaganda.

 

For the kids and unborn's sake.. let us hope so.

[ImWithStupid]

We gotta draw the line somewhere? hahaha.. we can't ban government and civics classes.. they are political.

 

Might have to start giving as much time for study of the communist manifesto here in MN.. Hahaha

 

Roger and me was great.

 

Government and civics classes talk about the US system, not a particular political point of view.

 

You're right, Roger and Me was one of the best things Michael Moore has done and it's what put him on the map, but it's still political.

 

The argument was that the troops talking about their experiences in Afganistan and Iraq was too political, then what about An Inconveient Truth. It's political as hell, but acceptable? Maybe this should be in the Double Standard thread.

[wez]

Government and civics classes talk about the US system, not a particular political point of view.

 

You're right, Roger and Me was one of the best things Michael Moore has done and it's what put him on the map, but it's still political.

 

The argument was that the troops talking about their experiences in Afganistan and Iraq was too political, then what about An Inconveient Truth. It's political as hell, but acceptable? Maybe this should be in the Double Standard thread.

 

I don't agree.. I don't see the two as the same, unless Al Internet Gore was in person trying to scare the hell out of people..I don't think it was the "too political" part.. even if some moron used those words to describe why it was cancelled..

[ImWithStupid]

I don't agree.. I don't see the two as the same, unless Al Internet Gore was in person trying to scare the hell out of people..I don't think it was the "too political" part.. even if some moron used those words to describe why it was cancelled..

 

The whole "Global Warming" scare is one of the biggest political pushes since the fall of communism in the early 90's and the whole "Ice Age" scare of the 70's (I remember when the scientist were saying we were on the verge of an ice age in the 70's and my mom even has the set of encyclopedias from that time that was scaring us then).

 

It's driving political and economic ferver. Al Gore's own facts in the movie with his big charts has been proven wrong. Greenhouse gasses historically have gone up after temps have gone up, not the other way around like "Mr. Internet" would like you to believe.

 

I'm not saying that the Earth isn't warming, I'm saying that man's causation is greatly exaggerated.

 

My point is that if soldiers speaking of their experience is, "too political", in these schools, why isn't teachers expressing their personal views or Al Gore's political movie, too political to be in the same schools?

[wez]

Like I said, "too political"? What the hell does that even mean? I think it's more along the lines that they also wouldn't host and a require a "consciencious objector hero's tour '08"... Or a pro life hero's tour.. or a pro choice hero's tour.. Charged issues.. prolly be trouble.

[ImWithStupid]

But it's ok for a teacher to preach their personal political view and show politically driven material in the same school? I'm sorry it's all or none. You kind of sound like the same hypocrit you preach against.

 

Either allow all political views in the school or none. Fair is fair.

[wez]

But it's ok for a teacher to preach their personal political view and show politically driven material in the same school? I'm sorry it's all or none. You kind of sound like the same hypocrit you preach against.

 

Either allow all political views in the school or none. Fair is fair.

 

 

I never said it was ok for teachers to preach anything.. But until we invent the educate -o- matic 3000 robot teacher, we're at the mercy of human frailty when it comes to education. Do you really want a KKK pep fest?

 

I said the group should be allowed... just not mandatory attendance.

 

Flyers at your local high school..

 

 

Michigan Milita is holding a Sadie Hawkins Dance Friday night following a down with federal government survival symposium!! Snacks will be provided

 

Local order of the White Knights of the Klu Klux Klan is proud to announce it will be sponsoring a "bonfire" after the football game Friday night. Free hot chocolate and robes will be available!

 

Fair is fair...

 

Hahahahahaha

 

 

Plus, a hypocrite is someone who judges, labels, and looks down on another and wants to punish/condemn them for being what the accuser in fact, is.. How did you possibly even think anything I said fit that catagory?

 

Please explain...

 

Matter of fact, I don't even condemn people for what I'm not.. or anyone for that matter..It's not a word I bandy about lightly.. I make sure it fits before I utter it.. And I don't condemn them either.. I love them.

[ImWithStupid]

Plus, a hypocrite is someone who judges, labels, and looks down on another and wants to punish/condemn them for being what the accuser in fact, is.. How did you possibly even think anything I said fit that catagory?

 

Please explain...

 

I was getting at the fact that the people in the school are hypocrits by saying one thing (the troops telling about their experiences) is too political but obvious political speach and media is fine.

 

I was saying that if you did in fact find this to be ok, then you may just be as hypocritical as them.

 

Hypocrite: 1) a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

[wez]

I was getting at the fact that the people in the school are hypocrits by saying one thing (the troops telling about their experiences) is too political but obvious political speach and media is fine.

 

I was saying that if you did in fact find this to be ok, then you may just be as hypocritical as them.

 

 

That definitiion is lacking a tad.. Can't forget the act of condemning someone and doing the same thing yourself as well..

 

 

So if you condemn them for what they did by cancelling the presentation, but would agree with them to deny the KKK to hold a bonfire, that would be hypocritical, right? you really wouldn't want a KKK rally at your kids school, would you? I wouldn't have a problem with them saying the KKK is "too political" to host them at our school..

 

 

I do think it's ok for them to cancel it.. I don't see what they did as hypocritical. I don't condemn what they did.. perfectly fine.. Wouldn't want a KKK pep fest either, they have every right to hold whatever they see fit. They didn't see this fit apparently..

 

(Not comparing KKK to veterens other than to make a point about the rights of schools to decide so don't jump to conclusions anyone) Snaf.

 

Again, I think the hero's tour would have been fine, just not mandatory.. They saw otherwise. I'm not the one to make that decision. The school and community is.

 

Plus, I really didn't see where they were saying other "too political" organizations were fine let alone allow groups of them present their agenda at the school..

 

Prolly would have been better for like the American legions club to hold the event and make it a community deal, rather than at a high school. I'm sure there would have been no issues with it.. High schools, there's always issues.

[hugo]

Why is Planned Parenthood in our schools?

[wez]

Why is Planned Parenthood in our schools?

 

Never knew they were.. That seems rather stupid.. They do abortions between classes?

 

 

I'd bitch if I lived in that community.. Not their job.

[Old Salt]

Government and civics classes talk about the US system, not a particular political point of view.

 

You're right, Roger and Me was one of the best things Michael Moore has done and it's what put him on the map, but it's still political.

 

The argument was that the troops talking about their experiences in Afganistan and Iraq was too political, then what about An Inconveient Truth. It's political as hell, but acceptable? Maybe this should be in the Double Standard thread.

Is it possible that the parents who were complaining were making it "too political"? Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines talking about their experiences in the war zone could hardly be political. IWS is correct. It's against regulations to talk politics or take part in the political process (except for casting a secret ballot) while in uniform. Who knows, the parents who are complaining may be surprised that their pacifistic, anti-war opinions are reinforced on their kids during the Q&A following.

[Old Salt]

Why is Planned Parenthood in our schools?

To pass out condoms and birth control pills? We all know that students can't keep it zipped.

[wez]

Is it possible that the parents who were complaining were making it "too political"? Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines talking about their experiences in the war zone could hardly be political. IWS is correct. It's against regulations to talk politics or take part in the political process (except for casting a secret ballot) while in uniform. Who knows, the parents who are complaining may be surprised that their pacifistic, anti-war opinions are reinforced on their kids during the Q&A following.

 

Personally, I'd have loved to listen to them.. and thank them. Just not sure if a high school full of immpressionable young people is the proper place for it. People prolly thought they were going to be recruiting. Just my thoughts.. who knows.

[eddo]

That definitiion is lacking a tad.. Can't forget the act of condemning someone and doing the same thing yourself as well..

 

Funny, I don't see that as part of Websters definition:

One entry found.

 

hypocrite

 

Main Entry:

hyp?o?crite Listen to the pronunciation of hypocrite

Pronunciation:

ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit

Function:

noun

Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai

Date: 13th century

 

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

? hypocrite adjective

But then, you always have had an issue with the understanding of that word.

 

 

 

I'm not totally sure how the KKK mention really fits in, as IWS is making an excellent point:

 

To the school administrators- These soldiers speaking would be "too political"

 

But allowing the teachers to share their political views, and show political backed movies is okie dokie.

 

That is classically hypocritical because the teachers are doing one thing (sharing political views,) and then telling other that they cannot do the same thing (share political views.)

 

The belief that Global warming is because of man tends to be more of a Democratic belief than a Republican one. Because of that, An Inconvenient Truth is most definitely a political movie.

 

Soldiers coming back and telling of (possibly good) things they saw would fall in line with what the Republicans want to be shared.

 

It appears that this school is leaning towards the left, and that is what makes the hypocrisy seem apparent.

[wez]

Funny, I don't see that as part of Websters definition:

 

But then, you always have had an issue with the understanding of that word.

 

 

 

I'm not totally sure how the KKK mention really fits in, as IWS is making an excellent point:

 

To the school administrators- These soldiers speaking would be "too political"

 

But allowing the teachers to share their political views, and show political backed movies is okie dokie.

 

That is classically hypocritical because the teachers are doing one thing (sharing political views,) and then telling other that they cannot do the same thing (share political views.)

 

The belief that Global warming is because of man tends to be more of a Democratic belief than a Republican one. Because of that, An Inconvenient Truth is most definitely a political movie.

 

Soldiers coming back and telling of (possibly good) things they saw would fall in line with what the Republicans want to be shared.

 

It appears that this school is leaning towards the left, and that is what makes the hypocrisy seem apparent.

 

I think I understand that word quite well.. Not a riddle. You just wish I didn't..

 

I think it's well known what age group the armed services looks to recruit.. last I checked, Al wasn't building an army and recruiting people like the KKK.. or the armed services. I have a feeling that was the issue, but like I said, I don't know.. Just my guess. Why a high school? Why not a community center for all ages?

[eddo]

I think I understand that word quite well.. Not a riddle. You just wish I didn't..

 

You can think it all you want, but your belief of what the word means doesn't line up with what the definition of the word is.

 

 

It's hard to have a decent discussion or debate when people have differing definitions for the same word. I'm not trying to fight with you wez, really, but certain things need to be understood by all parties to promote decent discussion. Word definition is one of those things.

 

If you want to add the "judging" part to the definition of hypocrisy, then I suggest you write Webster and let him know he's wrong.

[wez]

You can think it all you want, but your belief of what the word means doesn't line up with what the definition of the word is.

 

 

It's hard to have a decent discussion or debate when people have differing definitions for the same word. I'm not trying to fight with you wez, really, but certain things need to be understood by all parties to promote decent discussion. Word definition is one of those things.

 

If you want to add the "judging" part to the definition of hypocrisy, then I suggest you write Webster and let him know he's wrong.

 

 

Judge not . . . you hypocrite [MAT 7:1-5]

 

I'm ok with the definition.. you can write to Jesus if you don't like it.. I didn't add it, the bible did. Funny, I just picked it up 2 years ago, I thought you've been going to church for years..

 

"Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised." - Count Leo Tolstoy

[eddo]

Judge not . . . you hypocrite [MAT 7:1-5]

 

I'm ok with the definition.. you can write to Jesus if you don't like it.. I didn't add it, the bible did. Funny, I just picked it up 2 years ago, I thought you've been going to church for years..

 

That section of scripture doesn't back up your definition at all. Jesus didn't say that judging = hypocrisy. He said that those that were more worried about pointing the sin in someone else's life, as opposed to checking the sin in their own life, was a hypocrite- and that fits perfectly with Webster's definition. ie: "You get rid of sin in your own life, but I am gonna keep on sinning."

Now He did tell us not to judge, and that if we did, we would be judged in the same manner- but He doesn't equate that to hypocrisy.

 

In other words, according to Jesus and Webster:

The act of judging another's actions as wrong, if you are doing the same thing, is hypocrisy- as you are acting opposite to your stated beliefs or feelings.

 

But hypocrisy does not necessarily involve judging someone else. Your definition of the word itself is wrong, and I think that is causing a misrepresentation of your point (and thus causing you to misunderstand other's points.)

 

 

 

Think of it this way: You are taking care of an 80 year old man, and the chart says to give him 30cc's of Penicillin every 2 hours. Your understanding of what the word "Penicillin" is had better match whomever wrote the chart, or you are gonna have some issues. Same with the word "30cc's" and "2 hours".

 

Your point about the school isn't invalid, but your definition of the word "hypocrisy" is. Not because I say so, but because the accepted word expert- the dictionary- says so.