Georgians hate fox news too !!

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

So because Poland wants a defensive missile system in it's own soverign borders, it is making Russia attack them. Let me guess, the girl that gets raped was also "asking for it" because she dressed sexy.

 

I didn't say that.

 

Deploying missile silos at Russia's border is seen as an act of aggression. There may be dire consequences for Poland in doing so.

 

The West should not encourage Poland to do so. They will not back Poland up when push comes to shove. They will stand well clear saying tut tut tut, while Poland smoulders.

[ImWithStupid]

I didn't say that.

 

Deploying missile silos at Russia's border is seen as an act of aggression. There may be dire consequences for Poland in doing so.

 

The West should not encourage Poland to do so. They will not back Poland up when push comes to shove. They will stand well clear saying tut tut tut, while Poland smoulders.

 

You really need to do a Google search for "interceptor missiles". They are not offensive/nuclear missile silos, they aren't offensive weapons, they don't even have explosives in them.

 

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/gbi.html

 

Let me give you a more equal situation. The woman deserved to be raped because she had a "rape whistle" for defense, just like Poland deserves to be attacked because they want a way to defend themselves from attack, that can't hurt anyone.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

You really need to do a Google search for "interceptor missiles". They are not offensive/nuclear missile silos, they aren't offensive weapons, they don't even have explosives in them.

 

Boeing Ground-Based Interceptor

 

Let me give you a more equal situation. The woman deserved to be raped because she had a "rape whistle" for defense, just like Poland deserves to be attacked because they want a way to defend themselves from attack, that can't hurt anyone.

 

I heard you the first time. As I said before, saying that its just a defensive system doesn't make it so.

 

Iran says its nuclear policy is simply for the production of electricity. Do you really believe that too ?

 

Its just bull they are trying to run past the audience.

[ImWithStupid]

Uh oh!

 

U.S. in Talks With Britain on Installing Missile Defense System

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By ALAN COWELL

Published: February 24, 2007

 

Correction Appended

 

LONDON, Feb. 23 — Britain and the United States said Friday that they were discussing the stationing of an American antiballistic missile defense system on British soil.

 

Looks like Ireland better attack Great Britain for wanting to put defensive missiles in their own country.

[ImWithStupid]

I heard you the first time. As I said before, saying that its just a defensive system doesn't make it so.

 

Iran says its nuclear policy is simply for the production of electricity. Do you really believe that too ?

 

Its just bull they are trying to run past the audience.

 

The difference is, the US, like Russia, has no need to put offensive weapons near anyone. They can target anything, anywhere in the world, from home. There is no reason to lie about these being defensive.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Uh oh!

 

 

 

Looks like Ireland better attack Great Britain for wanting to put defensive missiles in their own country.

 

I doubt if that would make Ireland feel threatened

[ImWithStupid]

I doubt if that would make Ireland feel threatened

 

Why? Because they don't plan on firing missiles at GB? Thanks for proving my point that the only reason a country would oppose these is if they plan on being agressive.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Why? Because they don't plan on firing missiles at GB? Thanks for proving my point that the only reason a country would oppose these is if they plan on being agressive.

 

I have not proved your point.

 

Ireland would not be fearful of the UK having missile systems. Firstly, they would not be pointed at Ireland. Secondly, the UK has no ulterior motive regarding Ireland.

 

The situation in Poland is different. The USA/West would point that missile system at Russia. In addition, there are ulterior motives. The USA/West want Russia to feel threatened. They also want to poison Russia's relationship with its neighbours, isolating Russia as far as possible.

 

Furthermore, your defensive system would most likely covertly become an offensive system. This is exactly what I would expect over time.

 

Poland is in danger of becomming a pawn. It should not allow the silo on their soil. If attacked by Russia as a consequence of its siting, the USA/West will do nothing to aid Poland, apart from the usual bluster.

[ImWithStupid]

I have not proved your point.

 

Ireland would not be fearful of the UK having missile systems. Firstly, they would not be pointed at Ireland. Secondly, the UK has no ulterior motive regarding Ireland.

 

The situation in Poland is different. The USA/West would point that missile system at Russia. In addition, there are ulterior motives. The USA/West want Russia to feel threatened. They also want to poison Russia's relationship with its neighbours, isolating Russia as far as possible.

 

Furthermore, your defensive system would most likely covertly become an offensive system. This is exactly what I would expect over time.

 

Poland is in danger of becomming a pawn. It should not allow the silo on their soil. If attacked by Russia as a consequence of its siting, the USA/West will do nothing to aid Poland, apart from the usual bluster.

 

If Russia was truly worried about what you say, why don't they care that there is a missile defense system in Japan?

 

You're argument keeps assuming that these will be made offensive. Japan is about as close to Russia as Poland, just off the coast of Russia and it's Pacific naval bases. The logical difference is, Russia has no agressive plans for Japan like they do in central Europe.

 

As I said before, the US has no reason to put offensive missiles near Russia. If the US wanted to act offensively toward Russia, subs and ICBMs could hit anything anywhere.

[snafu]

Putting a defense system in any country is a good idea if you ask me. I would love to eliminate the threat of nuclear attacks. Unlike Iran, Poland can be monitored by the U.N. to make sure there is no offensive missiles and or nukes.

[wez]

Putting a defense system in any country is a good idea if you ask me. I would love to eliminate the threat of nuclear attacks. Unlike Iran, Poland can be monitored by the U.N. to make sure there is no offensive missiles and or nukes.

 

So what's the end goal of this crap?

 

 

 

Saw some stuff on the news tonight where Russia has really been cleaning the mothballs out of the military.. Navy, upgrading nukes, flying awfully close to Alaska.. But then again, they prolly see things happening in their part of the world that makes them nervous too. Pretty much have said if Ukraine joins NATO, their done.. Someone needs to dig up Reagan and kick his ass..

[snafu]

So what's the end goal of this crap?

 

 

 

Saw some stuff on the news tonight where Russia has really been cleaning the mothballs out of the military.. Navy, upgrading nukes, flying awfully close to Alaska.. But then again, they prolly see things happening in their part of the world that makes them nervous too. Pretty much have said if Ukraine joins NATO, their done.. Someone needs to dig up Reagan and kick his ass..

 

To detour the threat of a nuclear attack. If any country decides to deploy a nuke we don't necessarily have to retaliate with another nuclear attack, hence Armageddon.

It also cuts down the probability of a nation using nukes to blackmail other countries into submission.

[wez]

To detour the threat of a nuclear attack. If any country decides to deploy a nuke we don't necessarily have to retaliate with another nuclear attack, hence Armageddon.

It also cuts down the probability of a nation using nukes to blackmail other countries into submission.

 

How about we use those resources for the good of humanity instead of the possibility of armageddon? It's a losers game.. There will never be any winners. Only losers.

[ImWithStupid]

I'm thinking missile defense should be something we want...

 

 

Iran says it has put first dummy satellite in orbit

Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:17pm EDT

 

By Parisa Hafezi

 

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran said it had put a dummy satellite into orbit on a home-grown rocket for the first time on Sunday -- a move likely to increase Western concerns about its nuclear ambitions.

 

The long-range ballistic technology used to put satellites into space can also be used for launching weapons, although Iran says it has no plans to do so.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSHAF75296620080817?feedType=RSS&feedName=scienceNews

[wez]

I'm thinking missile defense should be something we want...

 

 

 

 

Iran says it has put first dummy satellite in orbit | Science | Reuters

 

 

I want no part of any of that crap.. Give me a tent, food, space suit, and a lifetime supply of 02 and drop my ass on Mars..

[snafu]

I want no part of any of that crap.. Give me a tent, food, space suit, and a lifetime supply of 02 and drop my ass on Mars..

 

Here's the view you'll get from your tent.

 

.

 

PS: This pic was commandeered from my good friend RoyalOrleans.

Edited April 2, 2016 by rem

[wez]

Here's the view you'll get from your tent.

 

.

 

 

Finally, I understand, the feelings of the few...Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend. We were all equal in the end.

Roger Waters

Edited April 2, 2016 by rem

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

If Russia was truly worried about what you say, why don't they care that there is a missile defence system in Japan?.

 

They probably do care. Bu there are important differences. Japans missile silo's are thousands of miles from Moscow. This gives the Russian's ample warning of any approaching missiles. They may get to shoot them down, or deploy some other device, or get people in shelters,and of course, retaliation is possible.

 

Retaliation may not be possible where the attackers missiles are close to the target, IE , the relatively short distance from Poland to Moscow.

 

Russia declared war on Japan in 1945. This was a short lived thing as the war ended a few months later. Apart from this episode, there has been, as far as I know, no friction between the Japanese and the Russians. There is no long simmering animosity between the two nations.

 

The situation is different in the West. There has been friction between the USA/West and Russia for decades. Attempts by the USA/West to site missile silo's alongside Russia's borders can only increase tension. But it is not the USA/West who will be exposed to Russia's wrath. It is Poland, Ukraine, Georgia and any other countries in that region stupid enough to allow themselves to be seduced by the USA/West.

 

 

You're argument keeps assuming that these will be made offensive. Japan is about as close to Russia as Poland, just off the coast of Russia and it's Pacific naval bases. The logical difference is, Russia has no aggressive plans for Japan like they do in central Europe..

 

Of course the weapon systems will be upgraded ! The whole purpose of the exercise is to gain the upper hand. What bullies cant take in the field, they seek to take with subterfuge.

 

You are right, Japan is as close to Russia as Poland is. But Japan is not as close to Moscow as Poland is. Japan is 11 times furthe from Moscow.

 

You may be right. Perhaps Russia has aggressive plans for Europe. Perhaps also it only wishes security, and border resolution in its ex states. Its too early to know right now.

 

As I said before, the US has no reason to put offensive missiles near Russia. If the US wanted to act offensively toward Russia, subs and ICBMs could hit anything anywhere.

 

And the Russians would retaliate with an equally devastating strike, which is why it wont happen.

 

The USA/West are safer toying with Russia from afar as they are now doing. I just don?t see why Poland, Georgia and the Ukraine are playing along. It's not as if the USA/West will come to their aid when push comes to shove.

 

Perhaps they really want to join NATO, or the EEC and complying with cohersion from the USA/West seems the best route. I have an unsettling feeling it is somethin they will regret

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Putting a defense system in any country is a good idea if you ask me. I would love to eliminate the threat of nuclear attacks. Unlike Iran, Poland can be monitored by the U.N. to make sure there is no offensive missiles and or nukes.

 

That might be acceptable to the Russians

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I want no part of any of that crap.. Give me a tent, food, space suit, and a lifetime supply of 02 and drop my ass on Mars..

 

Talking of Mars, it was a few years ago now, when they were seeking volunteers to live in a closed environment in Russia. The participants were to have no contact with the outside world, just each other. The idea was to see how people might manage such a long time as the journey to mars and back. I wonder how they are all getting along.

[ImWithStupid]

The west can't put defensive systems in Poland, Czech Republic or the Ukraine, but it's ok for Russia to put offensive, nuclear capable missiles in South Ossetia. I guess the west is still the agressor, with evil plans and poor old Russia is still the wholesome, victim.

 

Pledging to Leave Georgia, Russia Tightens Its Grip

 

By MICHAEL R. GORDON

Published: August 17, 2008

 

WASHINGTON — Even as Russia pledged to begin withdrawing its forces from neighboring Georgia on Monday, American officials said the Russian military had been moving launchers for short-range ballistic missiles into South Ossetia, a step that appeared intended to tighten its hold on the breakaway territory.

 

The Russian military deployed several SS-21 missile launchers and supply vehicles to South Ossetia on Friday, according to American officials familiar with intelligence reports. From the new launching positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, the missiles can reach much of Georgia, including Tbilisi, the capital.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/world/europe/18georgia.html?hp

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

The west can't put defensive systems in Poland, Czech Republic or the Ukraine, but it's ok for Russia to put offensive, nuclear capable missiles in South Ossetia. I guess the west is still the agressor, with evil plans and poor old Russia is still the wholesome, victim.

 

Thanks for the link. That is worrying. Why would they site those weapons in SO, if they planned to withdraw soon ?

[ImWithStupid]

Thanks for the link. That is worrying. Why would they site those weapons in SO, if they planned to withdraw soon ?

 

Here's the type of things that worry me...

 

Russians Melded Old-School Blitz With Modern Military Tactics

 

By THOM SHANKER

Published: August 16, 2008

 

WASHINGTON — Russia’s victorious military blitz into the former Soviet republic of Georgia brought something old and something new — but none of it was impromptu, despite appearances that a long-frozen conflict had suddenly turned hot.

 

The Russian military borrowed a page from classic Soviet-era doctrine: Moscow’s commanders sent an absolutely overwhelming force into Georgia. It was never going to be an even fight, and the outcome was predictable, if not preordained.

 

In fact, Pentagon and military officials say Russia held a major ground exercise in July just north of Georgia’s border, called Caucasus 2008, that played out a chain of events like the one carried out over recent days.

 

“This exercise was exactly what they executed in Georgia just a few weeks later,” said Dale Herspring, an expert on Russian military affairs at Kansas State University. “This exercise was a complete dress rehearsal.”

 

Russia prepared the battlefield in the months leading up to the outbreak of fighting.

 

In April, Russia reinforced its peacekeeping force in Abkhazia with advanced artillery, and in May it sent construction troops to fix a railroad line linking that area with Russia.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/world/europe/17military.html?ref=europe

 

I truly believe that Russia provoked this using South Ossetia as an excuse to reclaim Georgia.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I truly believe that Russia provoked this using South Ossetia as an excuse to reclaim Georgia.

 

Watch this. It looks like Georgia was preparing this with US involvement. US troops left 2 days before the Georgian invasion of SO. The Russians are claiming 1600 dead civilians due to this Georgian action.

 

Ive just read that the missiles you mentioned are mobile units, They are being withdrawn from Georgia to the disputed territories. Looks like Russia intends to either defend the SO population until things return to normal, or perhaps stay indefinitely.

 

 

 

[ame=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8bf_1218721868]LiveLeak.com - Georgia War Puppet[/ame]

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

This is pretty serious, you should watch it all.

 

It seems that the Russians fully expected the US forces in Georgia to engage in the fighting. Had the Us forces done so AND used precision weapons to target Russian troops, then the Russians might/would have used nuclear weapons - they consider them both to be WMD.

 

Thats what the mobile silos are doing there. Thats how close it came.

 

[ame=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d43_1218582627]LiveLeak.com - Russians move 2 SS-21 Tactical Nuke Ballistic Missile Launchers into South Ossetia[/ame]