Georgians hate fox news too !!

[Old Salt]

They probably do care. Bu there are important differences. Japans missile silo's are thousands of miles from Moscow. This gives the Russian's ample warning of any approaching missiles. They may get to shoot them down, or deploy some other device, or get people in shelters,and of course, retaliation is possible.

 

Retaliation may not be possible where the attackers missiles are close to the target, IE , the relatively short distance from Poland to Moscow.

 

Russia declared war on Japan in 1945. This was a short lived thing as the war ended a few months later. Apart from this episode, there has been, as far as I know, no friction between the Japanese and the Russians. There is no long simmering animosity between the two nations.

 

The situation is different in the West. There has been friction between the USA/West and Russia for decades. Attempts by the USA/West to site missile silo's alongside Russia's borders can only increase tension. But it is not the USA/West who will be exposed to Russia's wrath. It is Poland, Ukraine, Georgia and any other countries in that region stupid enough to allow themselves to be seduced by the USA/West.

 

 

 

 

Of course the weapon systems will be upgraded ! The whole purpose of the exercise is to gain the upper hand. What bullies cant take in the field, they seek to take with subterfuge.

 

You are right, Japan is as close to Russia as Poland is. But Japan is not as close to Moscow as Poland is. Japan is 11 times furthe from Moscow.

 

You may be right. Perhaps Russia has aggressive plans for Europe. Perhaps also it only wishes security, and border resolution in its ex states. Its too early to know right now.

 

 

 

And the Russians would retaliate with an equally devastating strike, which is why it wont happen.

 

The USA/West are safer toying with Russia from afar as they are now doing. I just don’t see why Poland, Georgia and the Ukraine are playing along. It's not as if the USA/West will come to their aid when push comes to shove.

 

Perhaps they really want to join NATO, or the EEC and complying with cohersion from the USA/West seems the best route. I have an unsettling feeling it is somethin they will regret

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Japan's island row with Russia

Japan's island row with Russia

 

Russia seized the islands at the end of World War II

The BBC News website looks at the background to the long-standing territorial dispute between Russia and Japan over the Kuril islands.

Because of the dispute, Russia and Japan have not yet signed a peace treaty to end World War II.

(bolding mine)

[ImWithStupid]

Also about 40 years prior Russia and Japan went to war with Russia suffering a loss to Japan.

 

The Russo-Japanese War Research Society

[ImWithStupid]

You are right, Japan is as close to Russia as Poland is. But Japan is not as close to Moscow as Poland is. Japan is 11 times furthe from Moscow.

 

The distance from Moscow didn't bother Russia when they shot down Korean Airline flight 007 when it veered off course and came close to their navy bases by Japan, killing over 200 civilians on board. The pilot of the jet that fired the missiles that downed the flight even said it was clearly a passenger jet.

[Old Salt]

The distance from Moscow didn't bother Russia when they shot down Korean Airline flight 007 when it veered off course and came close to their navy bases by Japan, killing over 200 civilians on board. The pilot of the jet that fired the missiles that downed the flight even said it was clearly a passenger jet.

But, but, but.... IWS, that was when the Communists and the KGB were running the country. Oh, wait a minute, the KGB (or its ex-members, I should say) is still running Russia.

[ImWithStupid]

and twice now they failed to follow through with the conditions of the cease fire plan they signed with the president of France...

 

Despite pledge to withdraw, Russians seize more ground in Georgia

 

By Tom Lasseter and Shashank Bengali, McClatchy Newspapers

Mon Aug 18, 6:02 PM ET

 

IGOETI, Georgia — Despite assurances that it would withdraw troops from Georgia starting Monday, the Russian military operated with impunity as its forces moved convoys in and out of the city of Gori and plowed through a police roadblock in this town some 25 miles northwest of Tbilisi , the capital.

 

In Washington , senior defense officials cited "troubling" intelligence that Russia had set up short-range ballistic missile launchers in South Ossetia . The SS-21 missiles have a range of 40 to 70 miles, meaning they can reach the capital from practically any part of South Ossetia , which Russian forces now occupy.

 

The officials, who refused to be identified due to the sensitivity of the subject, also said there was no significant Russian movement out of Georgia .

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080818/wl_mcclatchy/3021530

 

Plus they are doing this...

 

Russia steps up bomber runs near Alaska

 

MENTAL WAR: US military counts 16 incidents since July.

 

By RICHARD MAUER

rmauer@adn.com

 

Published: March 28th, 2008 01:50 AM

Last Modified: March 28th, 2008 02:32 AM

 

Russia's resurgent military is again making sporadic, unannounced bomber runs toward Alaska's airspace, leading the Air Force to scramble jets to intercept and identify them, according to the commander of the Pacific Air Forces, Gen. Howie Chandler.

 

The most recent incident, involving two Russian Tu-95 Bear bombers, occurred Tuesday, Chandler said during a meeting with reporters at Elmendorf Air Force Base on Thursday. Since July, there have been 16 such incidents, according to the Air Force.

 

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/358368.html

 

Remember Russia loving people like Sheik will tell you that it's the west that is on the offensive and provoking cold war style tactics.

 

Had this been US or US ally flights over Russia, they wouldn't be escorted back, they would be shot down, and then somehow justified. 25 years later, even though the families of the dead in the KAL 007 passenger flight mourn the dead, Russia still tries to claim it was a spy plane.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Japan's island row with Russia

 

(bolding mine)

 

Thanks for that Old Salt, it's news to me. Just goes to show they're squabbling everywhere.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

The distance from Moscow didn't bother Russia when they shot down Korean Airline flight 007 when it veered off course and came close to their navy bases by Japan, killing over 200 civilians on board. The pilot of the jet that fired the missiles that downed the flight even said it was clearly a passenger jet.

 

I remember that. A terrible tragedy. But also pretty frightening too, as the Soviets and US airforces often fly close to each others air space to test each ohers resolve. I often wondered if it was done as threat to the US not to encroach further.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Remember Russia loving people like Sheik .

 

I just strip the spin off the news. I dont swallow it whole like some people do.

 

Russia is being portayed as the bad guy, which is not the entire truth. It is Georgia that invaded South Ossetia.Their action has resulted in nearly 2000 ethnic Russian deaths. It is the US which appears to have trained them prior to their assault. Russia has stepped in to halt further Georgian aggression.

 

The US would have behaved exactly as the Russians, had Mexico bombed Texas. You know that is true.

[ImWithStupid]

I just strip the spin off the news. I dont swallow it whole like some people do.

 

Russia is being portayed as the bad guy, which is not the entire truth. It is Georgia that invaded South Ossetia.Their action has resulted in nearly 2000 ethnic Russian deaths. It is the US which appears to have trained them prior to their assault. Russia has stepped in to halt further Georgian aggression.

 

According to all reports other than the horredously biased and factually incorrect video you posted, the only US forces in Georgia were there weeks ago for an exercise other than that there was US special forces there to train the next Georgian forces that were going to Iraq. They were only trained in anti-terrorist and anti-insurgent tactics for deployment in Iraq.

 

The US would have behaved exactly as the Russians, had Mexico bombed Texas. You know that is true.

 

It's a bit of a difference, for your scenario to be the same, Texas would have to be a US backed breakaway province of Mexico. Texas is a voluntary state of the USA, that has a condition in it's constitutional agreement with the US that it can seceed if it sees fit, since it was once a soverign nation. South Ossetia is a break away region of diplomatically recognized Republic of Georgia that has never had it's own soveriegnty.

 

Believe me, I'm not so ignorant as to believe that Georgia is innocent, they were idiots to invade South Ossetia, but I think Russia was counting on them, and even baited them into trying and get control over their break away province of South Ossetia, and use it as an excuse to invade Georgia.

 

I also believe Russia has no intention of leaving Georgia and at the very least, taking over South Ossetia and Abkahzia.

 

I also have a problem with this claim of death of Russians. Russia told South Ossetians that they would give Russian passports to anyone who wanted them.

 

That would equate to Scotland wanting to break away from Great Britain and Russia saying they would give citizenship to anyone who asked. Then if GB tried to regain control of Scotland, Russia invaded GB with overwhelming force and said they were only defending Russian citizens in Scotland.

 

Russia, under ex-KGB Putin, is returning to same old, same old.

[ImWithStupid]

Seriously, Sheik, can you admit that in the past year it has been Russia who has shown signs of agression, take into consideration that they have restored bomber runs toward Alaska, and then the repeated threats of using nuclear weapons, so far in Georgia and Poland. I predict the same threat toward the Czech Republic and the Ukraine soon.

 

Even you can recognize that any nation that threatens nuclear strikes, can't be a friendly nation and these threats can't be acceptable by the west.

 

No nation has made a serious threat of nuclear strike in decades. Any nation who does so, should be treated as an agressive state.

 

Russia is the only nation to do so since the end of the cold war.

 

Now, who do you trust?

[wez]

 

No nation has made a serious threat of nuclear strike in decades. Any nation who does so, should be treated as an agressive state.

 

Russia is the only nation to do so since the end of the cold war.

 

Now, who do you trust?

 

 

People in North Korea have.. so have individual human beings in India, Pakistan, Iran, Israel... Hmmmmm.. seem to recall people here talking about "tactical nuclear weapons" for use in Iraq also...

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

According to all reports other than the horredously biased and factually incorrect video you posted, the only US forces in Georgia were there weeks ago for an exercise other than that there was US special forces there to train the next Georgian forces that were going to Iraq. They were only trained in anti-terrorist and anti-insurgent tactics for deployment in Iraq..

 

There is nothing factually incorrect in the video I posted. Georgia did invade SO, and there is evidence of US involvement. Do you really think the US presence is entirely innocent ? And what about their timely exit- 2 days before the Georgian bombardment of SO ?

 

It's a bit of a difference, for your scenario to be the same, Texas would have to be a US backed breakaway province of Mexico. Texas is a voluntary state of the USA, that has a condition in it's constitutional agreement with the US that it can seceed if it sees fit, since it was once a soverign nation. South Ossetia is a break away region of diplomatically recognized Republic of Georgia that has never had it's own soveriegnty..

 

It's a good enough parallel to get the message across. Just imagine 2000+ US citizens killed in an promiscuous bombing. Remind you of anything ?

 

Believe me, I'm not so ignorant as to believe that Georgia is innocent, they were idiots to invade South Ossetia, but I think Russia was counting on them, and even baited them into trying and get control over their break away province of South Ossetia, and use it as an excuse to invade Georgia..

 

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps this is just the excuse the Russians wanted to re draw state lines. The Georgians and US responsible have given them the perfect reason to move in and restore order.

 

But I dont think so. From the video this is what I see. NATO/ EU gave Georgia till Dec 2008 to secure " their" borders. Failure to make this deadline results in a decline. This is what prompted Georgians to engage this reckless policy, along with some degree of US encouragement.

 

I also believe Russia has no intention of leaving Georgia and at the very least, taking over South Ossetia and Abkahzia..

 

I believe they may remain in SO and Abkhazia. It would be entirely understandable if they did. Would you have them leave their people alone there, to be murdered by Georgians at some later date ?

 

I also have a problem with this claim of death of Russians. Russia told South Ossetians that they would give Russian passports to anyone who wanted them..

 

The barrage I saw on the web would most likely kill thousands if directed at a town or village, and that was just one such incident.

 

I cant comment on your passport claim. I have read that the folks in OS and Az were ethnic Russians. Besides, does it mater who they were? Can bombing civilians be justified ? No.

 

That would equate to Scotland wanting to break away from Great Britain and Russia saying they would give citizenship to anyone who asked. Then if GB tried to regain control of Scotland, Russia invaded GB with overwhelming force and said they were only defending Russian citizens in Scotland..

 

Se above.

 

Russia, under ex-KGB Putin, is returning to same old, same old.

 

Yep, its the same old west too.

[wez]

 

Yep, its the same old west too.

 

Indeed.. we are quite adept at starting sh t then playing dumb.. Too bad it only works so long. I did notice the Georgian prez looking like a deer in headlights and seemingly expecting the US to intervene, only to turn around and see his back up no where in sight.. Sure wouldn't be the first time.. Maybe the 1000th..

 

TV's full of morons trying to start cold war 2.. good for their business I imagine.

 

Gotta bring the Russian Bear, to it's knees. Maybe not the Russian Bear, maybe the Swedes ~ Roger Waters

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Seriously, Sheik, can you admit that in the past year it has been Russia who has shown signs of agression, take into consideration that they have restored bomber runs toward Alaska, and then the repeated threats of using nuclear weapons, so far in Georgia and Poland. I predict the same threat toward the Czech Republic and the Ukraine soon.

 

Certainly I can admit that Russia has shown sign of aggression in the last year. I have also seen signs of aggression in many other nations. Is it any wonder that Russian is tense? Georgia is being armed and advised by the US and if the report I read is to be believed, also armed by Israel.

 

Even you can recognize that any nation that threatens nuclear strikes, can't be a friendly nation and these threats can't be acceptable by the west.

 

Yes I agree, any nation that threatens nuclear weapon usage is not friendly.

 

Seriously, they are not going to stand about while US troops laser target their armies and destroy them utterly. That's a WMD. Once employed, the Russians are going to play big time too. At last, that's what they seem to be saying.

 

No nation has made a serious threat of nuclear strike in decades. Any nation who does so, should be treated as an agressive state.

 

Russia is the only nation to do so since the end of the cold war.

 

Now, who do you trust?

 

I dont trust any of the superpowers.

 

 

Did you know that SO and the other territory are autonomous regions? They have been since the break up of the USSR. Russia has honoured their autonomy. Georgia has not.

 

Those regions are not a part of Georgia

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Indeed.. we are quite adept at starting sh t then playing dumb.. Too bad it only works so long. I did notice the Georgian prez looking like a deer in headlights and seemingly expecting the US to intervene, only to turn around and see his back up no where in sight.. Sure wouldn't be the first time.. Maybe the 1000th..

 

What astonishes me Wez, is the folks who watch the media, and simply believe what they are presented with.

 

The west is once more presenting Russia as the ogre.

 

As far as I can see, Russia has moved in to restore order and stop further shelling of civillians. In addition, they have punished the bully.

 

Now, if the West did it, they would be lauded in every newspaper. But if Russia does it, they get presented as the villain.

[Old Salt]

What astonishes me Wez, is the folks who watch the media, and simply believe what they are presented with.

 

The west is once more presenting Russia as the ogre.

 

As far as I can see, Russia has moved in to restore order and stop further shelling of civillians. In addition, they have punished the bully.

 

Now, if the West did it, they would be lauded in every newspaper. But if Russia does it, they get presented as the villain.

And that goes for what people see on the internet, too. Pictures and videos can lie. They only show what the lens is pointed at. While I don't completely believe either side to be telling the truth, there is a certain amount of truth in both sides' statements. That's what makes good propaganda.

[wez]

What astonishes me Wez, is the folks who watch the media, and simply believe what they are presented with.

 

The west is once more presenting Russia as the ogre.

 

As far as I can see, Russia has moved in to restore order and stop further shelling of civillians. In addition, they have punished the bully.

 

Now, if the West did it, they would be lauded in every newspaper. But if Russia does it, they get presented as the villain.

 

 

I should be astonished but I'm used to it. Many, many people here in the USA actually believe they/we are better than anyone and everyone and are the saviors of the world that can do no wrong. I guess I can't blame em, we've been brainwashed with these lies since birth, myself included. Not too popular to speak the truth around these parts. I'm sure ordinary Russians pretty much experience the same from their "leaders" as well.. Lies on top of lies smothered with lies. These people don't care about anything but maintaining their perceived power and self importance through money. A perpetual war is just what the doctor ordered.. They need us, to need them, and they know how to get it. Sick bastards.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I should be astonished but I'm used to it. Many, many people here in the USA actually believe they/we are better than anyone and everyone and are the saviors of the world that can do no wrong. I guess I can't blame em, we've been brainwashed with these lies since birth, myself included. Not too popular to speak the truth around these parts. I'm sure ordinary Russians pretty much experience the same from their "leaders" as well.. Lies on top of lies smothered with lies. These people don't care about anything but maintaining their perceived power and self importance through money. A perpetual war is just what the doctor ordered.. They need us, to need them, and they know how to get it. Sick bastards.

 

I think you are right Wez, lots of people are brainwashed. I used to think it was only Nazi's, Stalinists and Fanatical muslims.

 

I've come to se that we are all vulnerable to this . It starts with the perpetual one sidedness of a story in the media. If you dont appraise the story critically, and strip away all the spin, you're done for. I've learned to see which side the presenter is on, and what it is s/he wants me to believe.

 

Its like a discrete soft-war that is constantly being fought for the minds of lazy people.

[wez]

I've come to se that we are all vulnerable to this . It starts with the perpetual one sidedness of a story in the media. If you dont appraise the story critically, and strip away all the spin, you're done for. I've learned to see which side the presenter is on, and what it is s/he wants me to believe.

 

Its like a discrete soft-war that is constantly being fought for the minds of lazy people.

 

 

Very well said, sheik.. and unfortunately true. Insidious.. and ingenius.

[ImWithStupid]

I'm glad I had no idea what I was talking about when i said that Russia was just trying to do what the old USSR did by claiming buffer nations, and expanding it's empire by taking over other nations territory. It seems that wez and sheik were right that Russia was just an innocent party in the war with Georgia and South Ossetia.

 

I'm sure the US was behind the conflict, since they didn't stand to gain anything from the result, and Russia who absorbed new territory was an innocent party. I'm sure you both would agree that God damn the US of KKK, A and praise INNOCENT Mother Russia.

 

August 30, 2008

Kremlin announces that South Ossetia will join 'one united Russian state'

 

The Kremlin moved swiftly to tighten its grip on Georgia’s breakaway regions yesterday as South Ossetia announced that it would soon become part of Russia, which will open military bases in the province under an agreement to be signed on Tuesday.

 

Tarzan Kokoity, the province’s Deputy Speaker of parliament, announced that South Ossetia would be absorbed into Russia soon so that its people could live in “one united Russian state” with their ethnic kin in North Ossetia.

 

The declaration came only three days after Russia defied international criticism and recognised South Ossetia and Georgia’s other separatist region of Abkhazia as independent states. Eduard Kokoity, South Ossetia’s leader, agreed that it would form part of Russia within “several years” during talks with Dmitri Medvedev, the Russian President, in Moscow.

 

The disclosure will expose Russia to accusations that it is annexing land regarded internationally as part of Georgia. Until now, the Kremlin has insisted that its troops intervened solely to protect South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgian “aggression”.

Related Links

Georgia's troops didn't expect the Russians

Burning borders mark out a new battleground

Rewards are easy, punishment is hard

 

Interfax news quoted an unidentified Russian official as saying that Moscow also planned to establish two bases in Abkhazia. Sergei Shamba, Abkhazia’s Foreign Minister, said that an agreement on military co-operation would be signed within a month.

 

The Russian Foreign Ministry confirmed that agreements on “peace, co-operation and mutual assistance with Abkhazia and South Ossetia” were being prepared on the orders of President Medvedev. Abkhazia said that it would ask Russia to represent its interests abroad.

 

Kremlin announces that South Ossetia will join 'one united Russian state' - Times Online

 

I was such an, uninformed idiot, with a weak and lazy mind, who only believed what I read from "western press" and didn't take into consideration the stories from the The Moscow Times, my PERSONAL experience when in Russia, or historical models of Russian methods, when I condemed their operations and motives to grab more territory.

 

You guys were much more informed with your, I hate my country and you are an idiot if you believe what you read, mentality.

[wez]

I'm glad I had no idea what I was talking about when i said that Russia was just trying to do what the old USSR did by claiming buffer nations, and expanding it's empire by taking over other nations territory. It seems that wez and sheik were right that Russia was just an innocent party in the war with Georgia and South Ossetia.

 

I'm sure the US was behind the conflict, since they didn't stand to gain anything from the result, and Russia who absorbed new territory was an innocent party. I'm sure you both would agree that God damn the US of KKK, A and praise INNOCENT Mother Russia.

 

 

 

Kremlin announces that South Ossetia will join 'one united Russian state' - Times Online

 

I was such an, uninformed idiot, with a weak and lazy mind, who only believed what I read from "western press" and didn't take into consideration the stories from the The Moscow Times, my PERSONAL experience when in Russia, or historical models of Russian methods, when I condemed their operations and motives to grab more territory.

 

You guys were much more informed with your, I hate my country and you are an idiot if you believe what you read, mentality.

 

Let em worry about their own war criminals and self destruction.. we got our own to worry about..

 

Who's the idiots who hate their country? Morons.. I want my country to last til the Earth fries..

 

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ~ Matthew 26:52

[ImWithStupid]

Let em worry about their own war criminals and self destruction.. we got our own to worry about..

 

Who's the idiots who hate their country? Morons.. I want my country to last til the Earth fries..

 

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ~ Matthew 26:52

 

But, wez, you and Shiek said I was a lazy idiot who only believed what the west said about Russia's motives, and the US and the west was the bad guy iin the Georgia situation.

 

I suppose you probably believe Putin's claim that the US set off this confrontation.

 

I am such an uninformed idiot, with a lazy mind,

[ImWithStupid]

Who's the idiots who hate their country? Morons.. I want my country to last til the Earth fries..

 

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ~ Matthew 26:52

 

You realize that it's you who has continually said statements that would be interpreted as that of hatred for their country, right?

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I'm glad I had no idea what I was talking about when i said that Russia was just trying to do what the old USSR did by claiming buffer nations, and expanding it's empire by taking over other nations territory. It seems that wez and sheik were right that Russia was just an innocent party in the war with Georgia and South Ossetia.:

 

I did not say that you had no idea what you were talking about. I pointed out that it was Georgia who had invaded the autonomous region of South Ossetia. In defence of the South Ossetians, Russia had then forced the invading Georgians to flee. Russia was the good guy here, and Georgia the bad guy.

 

You say that Russia is " expanding its empire by taking over other nations territory". From the article you provided, it seems that the people of South Ossetia wish to become part of the Russian state. I'm not at all surprised. It is what I would vote for if I lived there. Georgia is a dangerous volatile neighbour. This is not an example of Russia expanding its borders, more a case of the South Ossetians wishing to become part of Russia, if only for its own security.

 

I'm sure the US was behind the conflict, since they didn't stand to gain anything from the result, and Russia who absorbed new territory was an innocent party. I'm sure you both would agree that God damn the US of KKK, A and praise INNOCENT Mother Russia.:

 

The US/West did have something to gain from the conflict. Namely the possible expansion of Georgia by its aggression. This would have been exactly what the US/West wanted. They want a weaker Russia that feels isolated and threatened by hostile western backed nations with missile systems pointing at them.

 

 

 

[

url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4635843.ece]Kremlin announces that South Ossetia will join 'one united Russian state' - Times Online[/url]:

 

I was such an, uninformed idiot, with a weak and lazy mind, who only believed what I read from "western press" and didn't take into consideration the stories from the The Moscow Times, my PERSONAL experience when in Russia, or historical models of Russian methods, when I condemed their operations and motives to grab more territory.:

 

I did not say you were uninformed or weak. I said that we " are all vulnerable to this type of thinking". You were not singled out. I was referring to how we tend to skip over the news, and not appraise it properly.

 

You guys were much more informed with your, I hate my country and you are an idiot if you believe what you read, mentality.

 

 

I dont hate my country or yours, or anyone else's. And I did not call you an idiot either.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

But, wez, you and Shiek said I was a lazy idiot

 

Please find where I said you were a lazy idiot. And dont around with one of my posts.