Heroes.. Just like Juan McCain

[timesjoke]

I cant believe you guys are still having the same endless loop discussions with Wez. He is only playing stuipd, he knows the difference is intent, the element in our hearts or 'souls' that color our actions.

 

 

Actions on their own do not define actions as good or bad, it is the motivation or intent that do this. A terrorist is interested in something like a 9/11 event where the most civilian and innocent lives lost the better. A John McCain kind of man is looking for military targets and trying not to hurt civilians.

 

 

If we only focus down to just an action without the context that the actions are done in then we can never take actions for the better. A man kills another man, the action itself without any other consideration may seem as bad but if you pull your focus outward to include motivations and intent you allow yourself to see the action for what it 'truly' is. The same action that 'seems' bad can be good if this killing is to save an innocent child's life from being murdered by the man you stopped. Giving a child candy and being friendly can be good unless it is a child molester trying to gain the trust of the child in order to abuse the child, then the kind 'looking' action is truly bad.

 

 

 

People who hate America try to keep others from seeing context of actions so they can make their terrorist buddies seem the same as us to protect them and assist them to destroy America. They work to cause inaction, to stay our hands and create hesitation as opportunities for the terrorists to do their job of killing as many of our innocents as possible.

[wez]

I cant believe you guys are still having the same endless loop discussions with Wez. He is only playing stuipd, he knows the difference is intent, the element in our hearts or 'souls' that color our actions.

 

 

Actions on their own do not define actions as good or bad, it is the motivation or intent that do this. A terrorist is interested in something like a 9/11 event where the most civilian and innocent lives lost the better. A John McCain kind of man is looking for military targets and trying not to hurt civilians.

 

 

If we only focus down to just an action without the context that the actions are done in then we can never take actions for the better. A man kills another man, the action itself without any other consideration may seem as bad but if you pull your focus outward to include motivations and intent you allow yourself to see the action for what it 'truly' is. The same action that 'seems' bad can be good if this killing is to save an innocent child's life from being murdered by the man you stopped. Giving a child candy and being friendly can be good unless it is a child molester trying to gain the trust of the child in order to abuse the child, then the kind 'looking' action is truly bad.

 

 

 

People who hate America try to keep others from seeing context of actions so they can make their terrorist buddies seem the same as us to protect them and assist them to destroy America. They work to cause inaction, to stay our hands and create hesitation as opportunities for the terrorists to do their job of killing as many of our innocents as possible.

 

Got any valid argument besides hypocrisy and personal attacks?

 

Why did John McCain just decide one day he needed to drop bombs on people he didn't know, whom never attacked his beloved America?

[wez]

Lookie.. heroes.

 

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Thanks jaw.. hahahahaha

[snafu]

You know wez I admire your stance but you are so naive. I know you are thinking everybody should be treated the same. And your right.

 

It brings tears to my eyes when I think of the torment McCain endured. Whether the war was just or not dose not matter. Whether he dropped bombs on innocent people (which probably happened) doesn't' t matter. What matters is that John McCain served his country unconditionally. He dropped those bombs to preserve the freedom and sanctity of an oppressed nation. People of South Vietnam were persecuted and Communism was a real threat at the time. You can claim these people making the hooded pyramid are hero's but I gotta tell you they aren't. They are soldiers of the oppressor. They are drones doing the work of every thing against human rights that you and I believe in. They are not my hero's and they shouldn't be yours.

 

 

PS: Fullauto said it in another thread that it doesn't matter who's in office and he's right. It dosn't matter. We are going to war. I suggest we have a warrior in office.

[wez]

You know wez I admire your stance but you are so naive. I know you are thinking everybody should be treated the same. And your right.

 

It brings tears to my eyes when I think of the torment McCain endured. Whether the war was just or not dose not matter. Whether he dropped bombs on innocent people (which probably happened) doesn't' t matter. What matters is that John McCain served his country unconditionally. He dropped those bombs to preserve the freedom and sanctity of an oppressed nation. People of South Vietnam were persecuted and Communism was a real threat at the time. You can claim these people making the hooded pyramid are hero's but I gotta tell you they aren't. They are soldiers of the oppressor. They are drones doing the work of every thing against human rights that you and I believe in. They are not my hero's and they shouldn't be yours.

 

 

PS: Fullauto said it in another thread that it doesn't matter who's in office and he's right. It dosn't matter. We are going to war. I suggest we have a warrior in office.

 

 

I may be naive to think most human beings have a conscience and common sense enough to see hypocrisy as easy as any 10 year old in the world.. But I aint gonna lie to myself or anyone else to try to make myself feel better about it. We don't fight wars for our ideals anymore, snaf, and don't care about the oppressed as a war machine.. like McCain claims we do.. If we did, we wouldn't use it to oppress people, ever.. Like we have for the last 60 years.

 

If we cared about oppressed people, like our forefathers were and fought against, we'd be in Darfur, not Iraq. I'm already seeing tv commercials by some Jewish league preparing us for the invasion of Iran.. We are now what our founding fathers fought against.. how sickeningly ironic.

 

And for what? Trying to obtain what we have more of than they could amass in 100 years? Hypocrisy at it's finest..

 

Why do you really think our wars are not fought out in the open for us regular Americans to see anymore? They learned that lesson in Vietnam, causing the death of journalism and the free press....

 

Playing dumb doesn't make me not responsible for what my "leaders" do.

[snafu]

If we cared about oppressed people, like our forefathers were and fought against, we'd be in Darfur, not Iraq. I'm already seeing tv commercials by some Jewish league preparing us for the invasion of Iran.. We are now what our founding fathers fought against.. how sickeningly ironic...

 

 

Well you got me there. We should be in Darfur. We should be fighting for oppression were ever it rears it' s ugly head. The problem with Dafur is that they can't attack us. We need to pick our fights and free the oppressed as we go. It takes a lot of resources to accomplish this so we need to pick our fights. And reap the rewards.

[wez]

And the men in hoods aren't oppressing anyone as far as I can tell.. And to the regular people in Vietnam, McCain was a soldier of the oppressor..not a hero.

 

How do we tell them from just regular ole' Iraqi young men? The oppressors soldiers? Anyone from 16 to 50 whose male and not cheering us on? It's bullsh t snaf, and you know it, I know it, and the American people know it.

[wez]

The problem with Dafur is that they can't attack us.

 

If Tim McVie, 16 Saudis and 3 other morons can attack us.. anyone can...

[snafu]

If Tim McVie, 16 Saudis and 3 other morons can attack us.. anyone can...

 

Yeah but they didn't drop chemical or nuke weapons on us.

[wez]

Yeah but they didn't drop chemical or nuke weapons on us.

 

 

Neither has anyone else.. we're the only ones to have ever nuked a quarter million in one big, fat heroic blaze of glory..

 

 

Look at this! Kickin' ass.. makin' friends..stopping evildoers..

 

Afghans fed up with government, U.S. - Afghanistan - MSNBC.com

 

'They don't understand us'

An air strike in Herat province about two weeks ago killed dozens of people. A U.S. investigation concluded that most were Taliban, but the Afghan government and the United Nations say up to 90 civilians died, including children.

 

Villagers say the U.S. does not understand how complex alliances, violence and even drugs play out in their culture. The eyes of elderly Malik Bakhtiar well with tears as he recalls his brother's arrest by U.S. troops for apparently running a drug laboratory in his home. In certain regions of Afghanistan, people grow opium for their livelihood.

 

"They don't understand us," Bakhtiar says. "Every house has a gun. Every house has opium."

[snafu]

Neither has anyone else..

 

 

Then I guess we've been doing our job right.

 

 

And even the Afghanistan president understands the price of collateral damage. He and other Afghanistan people understand why were there and support the USA being there.

[wez]

Then I guess wev'e been doing our job right.

 

Yeah, that's it.

 

Did you look at that article? Please explain..

[wez]

You know snaf.. I was thinking.. aren't the claimed American ideals we claim to protect based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ?

[snafu]

You know snaf.. I was thinking.. aren't the claimed American ideals we claim to protect based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ?

 

Don't take me down that path. I live by good ethics not by a man made book. Fight that one with someone else.

[wez]

Don't take me down that path. I live by good ethics not by a man made book. Fight that one with someone else.

 

But is it not the claim of our nation?

 

President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

 

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

 

 

Abu Mazen was at the same meeting and recounts how President Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

 

He's a crazy MoFo..

[snafu]

But is it not the claim of our nation?

 

No its something like in "God we trust". We are a nation of many many faiths. We are just affirming that there is a power greater than ourselves.

[wez]

No its something like in "God we trust". We are a nation of many many faiths. We are just affirming that there is a power greater than ourselves.

 

 

I added another article to the last post.. check it out and explain that sh t.. and the Afganistan one too on the last page..

 

this one.. Afghans fed up with government, U.S. - Afghanistan - MSNBC.com

 

 

Bush is crazier than a sh thouse rat.. Or a calculating, conscious liar. Either way...

[ImWithStupid]

You know snaf.. I was thinking.. aren't the claimed American ideals we claim to protect based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ?

 

Actually that is not stated for fact anywhere in official record. Certain individuals involved in the creation of our country had these ideals. Jesus Christ or Christianity is not specifically mentioned as a blueprint.

[wez]

Actually that is not stated for fact anywhere in official record. Certain individuals involved in the creation of our country had these ideals. Jesus Christ or Christianity is not specifically mentioned as a blueprint.

 

Yeah.. we just print it on all our money.. and used it as the basis for the Declaration of Independence.

 

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

 

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.

 

 

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[ImWithStupid]

Yeah.. we just print it on all our money.. and used it as the basis for the Declaration of Independence.

 

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

 

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.

 

 

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Nice try. Nowhere does that say Jesus Christ or Christian God.

[wez]

Nice try. Nowhere does that say Jesus Christ or Christian God.

 

 

yeah.. you're right.. I'm sure they meant "In Allah we trust"..

 

Capitalized God = Christian God.. Don't play dumb with me..

[ImWithStupid]

yeah.. you're right.. I'm sure they meant "In Allah we trust"..

 

Capitalized God = Christian God.. Don't play dumb with me..

 

Might want to take a read at this site, and check make sure you check out the quotes that are linked to at the bottom...

 

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

 

Quotes like this one from Thomas Jefferson, primary author of the Declaration of Independence...

 

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."

- "Notes on Virginia"

 

or this from James Madison, architect of the Constituion of the United States...

 

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

- "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

 

or these from Benjamin Franklin...

 

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."

- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

 

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."

 

or especially look at this one by John Adams...

 

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"

 

Capital "G" on God.

 

Hmm. Don't prove your igonrance to me.

[wez]

I think most of the founding fathers were smart, thinking men.. Understood the laws of nature.. given by a "creator".. What is the meaning of God on money that was completed when added to all paper money 50 years ago?

 

The motto In God We Trust was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the American Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout Christians throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize God on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Salmon P. Chase by Reverend M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridley Township, Pennsylvania, and read:

 

 

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.

One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my heart I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

 

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.

 

 

 

 

Hmm. Don't prove your igonrance to me.

[ImWithStupid]

I think most of the founding fathers were smart, thinking men.. Understood the laws of nature.. given by a "creator".. What is the meaning of God on money that was completed when added to all paper money 50 years ago?

 

That still doesn't mean that the ideals of the country were supposed to be the teachings of Christ or Christian.

 

This is the manipulation of what the ideals of the country are. Just like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, LBJ and now W. expanding the role and intent of what the federal government was to do, against the intent of the Founding Fathers. They convinced the populace that the Constitution was a "living document" (bunch of crap) and was then able to start taking away the liberties that the Founding Fathers wanted to preserve.

 

I think we may have been looking at this differently, you are saying what the current nation is going on and I was sticking to what the ideals were supposed to be, as set forth, by brilliant men over 200 years ago.

[wez]

That still doesn't mean that the ideals of the country were supposed to be the teachings of Christ or Christian.

 

This is the manipulation of what the ideals of the country are. Just like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, LBJ and now W. expanding the role and intent of what the federal government was to do, against the intent of the Founding Fathers. They convinced the populace that the Constitution was a "living document" (bunch of crap) and was then able to start taking away the liberties that the Founding Fathers wanted to preserve.

 

I think we may have been looking at this differently, you are saying what the current nation is going on and I was sticking to what the ideals were supposed to be, as set forth, by brilliant men over 200 years ago.

 

 

Know what else is funny...

 

The natural laws that were understood by the founding fathers, were the very natural laws that were taught by Jesus.. Not by the so called "Chrisians".. AKA hypocrites.. that stole Jesus's name and bastardized his simple teachings understood by everyone under the age of 12, and incorperated it with a pile of b ll , smoke and mirrors and convinced people they are inseperable. Not Jesus's fault.. The founding fathers were smart enough to know that Jesus was man who perfectly understood the natural laws of the "Father" .. and wasn't God in the flesh who lived in a world of Pagan magic.

 

They needed to steal Jesus and lock him in a box/book.. His teachings would have destroyed them..