Bible Prophecy & The Scientfic Method

[Phantom]

A friend and myself made this together. We set up Biblical prophecy as a falsifiable hypothesis using the scientific method. Although there are literally hundreds of fulfilled Bible prophecies, we used the one included in the video as our example. It concerns the rebirth of Israel prophesied to the year in 1948:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5zFclLOstE]YouTube - The Scientific Method Proves the Bible[/ame]

 

And here is one that shows the death of the Messiah (Jesus) prophesied in advance to the very year:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Ub57YLWNk]YouTube - Seventy Weeks of Daniel[/ame]

 

Opened for debate and discussion, of course.

 

Enjoy!

[wez]

I haven't watched both yet.. just half of the first as I am a dumbass with dial up.. but I'll toss this out there..

 

 

What if rather than naturally occurring, fufilled prophesies, manipulators and liars self fulfill them to prove them so the masses will remain fearful and complacent in wait for Jesus to come back to life to save the Earth, allowing them to maintain their wealth, percieved power and self importance?

 

How come there was no mention of American Indians and their way of life in the bible?

[Phantom]

Good questions. For one, we would need to take each prophecy on a case by case basis to dismiss the claim it was self fulfilled. Since we use the rebirth of Israel as a nation as an example in the video, let's use that as an example for our explanation as well.

 

We had to cram as much info into a ten minute video as possible due to You Tube file size limits. There was much more to the Israel rebirth prophecy than it being prophesied to the year (and in some scholar's cases, they discovered it was prophesied to the day). Things like it would be a secular government instead of a theocracy- something unheard of in antiquity. Pretty much all governments were theocracies. Then it would be a united nation instead of a separate nation of Judah and Israel. Then it would be surrounded by an anti-Israeli collation. Fascinatingly, the names given in the Bible are the exact names of the Muslim counties currently aligned against Israel- including Russia that is set apart in the prophecy. Then it would be physically restored before being spiritually restored. This is exactly how it happened- Israel had no national religion, including Judaism. The list goes on but you get the point.

 

The land of Palestine prior to 1948 was international territory owned by Britain and Turkey. Then of course the events of WWII. Then we would have to believe the Muslims formed their coalition to purposely fulfill Christian and Jewish prophecy which is pretty unbelievable if you understand the Muslim opinion of Christianity and Judaism. Etc., etc.

 

About the Indians- slightly off topic but the basic answer is in my opinion (and the opinions of theologians differ) is that if they did not know about Jesus, then they would not be held accountable. In the epistles, Paul describes Jesus as the savior to all men. Then Jesus Himself said it will be worse for those who knew and rejected instead of those who never even knew. So it is my own personal opinion the Indians or those who never heard of Jesus are redeemed. It is true God is just but He does not negate one of His qualities for the sake of another. In other words, He is not going to negate the attribute of mercy for the attribute of judgment. Again, theologians differ but I do not believe those who never even heard of Jesus will suffer.

 

Then in Romans, Paul tells us the signs are so obvious that God exists in nature that all men are without excuse. The matter then becomes did they choose Jehovah or create their own pagan gods? It's a touchy issue but I do believe the Indians and all unknowing people are saved.

[Phantom]

And here is another fascinating find. The Gospel story encoded in the genealogies of Genesis. This video was also made by my friend:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbSSsvEinro]YouTube - Jesus In Genesis Supernatural Design[/ame]

 

And if anyone has the time, I highly recommend watching this series he posted:

 

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2D15C2A08FBCDC53

 

It talks about the astronomical events that coincided with the life of Jesus. We also recently discovered tetrads of eclipses that coincide with significant events of Christianity and Judaism. The rebirth of Israel, the reunification of Jerusalem, the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, etc. all coincided with tetrads of solar and lunar eclipses. This is fascinating because we are told in the Bible the heavens declare the glory [and story] of God. The next set of tetrads occur in the year 2015 and due to the history, it looks significant.

 

One of the interesting things not mentioned in the series above is how the lunar eclipse on the passover of 33 A.D. (the time and year we believe Jesus' crucifixion took place) coincided with the crucifixion. This is NASA developed software we are talking about. The coolness is compounded by the fact the 70 weeks of Daniel prophecy (shown in the 2nd video in my OP) predicted this time over 400 years in advance. So we have a prophecy to the very year plus NASA program confirming astronomical events.

 

Enjoy.

[wez]

Pretty much all governments were theocracies. Then it would be a united nation instead of a separate nation of Judah and Israel. Then it would be surrounded by an anti-Israeli collation. Fascinatingly, the names given in the Bible are the exact names of the Muslim counties currently aligned against Israel- including Russia that is set apart in the prophecy. Then it would be physically restored before being spiritually restored. This is exactly how it happened- Israel had no national religion, including Judaism. The list goes on but you get the point.

 

The land of Palestine prior to 1948 was international territory owned by Britain and Turkey. Then of course the events of WWII. Then we would have to believe the Muslims formed their coalition to purposely fulfill Christian and Jewish prophecy which is pretty unbelievable if you understand the Muslim opinion of Christianity and Judaism. Etc., etc.

 

 

Seems to me displacing all the Muslims from Palestine in 1948 and what is now Isreal and replacing them with Jewish people whom were given the most sophisticated weapons available as well as protection from the most powerful nations on Earth would be enough to cause a coalition to be formed against them from the people who had lived there for generations. They drew the line, and threatened all of them.. Perhaps to fullfill some Christian and Jewish prophecy.

 

Why did Jewish people need their own Jewish state after WW2 anyways? And why did the most powerful nations on Earth choose to create conflict to accomplish that? Why the hell didn't we give em western Germany then? Seems like a planned, calculated, meticulously well thought out human plan if ya ask me.. No naturally occurring incidents there as far as I can see.

 

It'd be like a bunch of countries booting us out to the fringes and returning Native Americans to their homeland tomorrow. Might be a coalition or two formed against them.

[wez]

I guess the main problem for me Aer, is that this suggests that we are incapable of forging any kind of future. That all is pre-determined from the beginning til the end of time.. which runs counter to the biblical idea of free will.. I believe in free will and that we can make reality and the future whatever we want it to be.. And It seems to me that what some people want it to be, is already written and they're gonna make damn sure it happens so they can be right.

 

Then after the smoke clears and the killing is done, someone talking logic and common sense will get labeled Jesus reincarnated.

[Phantom]

More good questions. Well, it's not just the fact there is resistance against Israel but that the coalition of countries were mentioned by name. Then exceptions were given and wouldn't you know it- today those countries have peace treaties with Israel.

 

Furthermore, this is in stark contrast to their return to the land after the Babylonian exile. That return was done in times of peace with consent from the Persian king. However, the second return of 1948 prophesied for the end times was stated to be done and then immediately be surrounding by enemies and shrouded with hostility.

 

As for they why didn't get Germany- because Germany was a sovereign nation. Palestine was not- it was international territory. Furthermore, the mandates explicitly stated not to displace the locals originally. Secondly, due to the fact Israel is a secular state today, there are many, many Arabs and Muslims currently residing in Israel due to the freedom Israel offers over their Islamic neighbors. As for the currently trapped Palestinians, it is a sticky situation and my heart goes out to many of them but it is not entirely Israel. The neighboring Muslim countries prohibit their immigration into their own Muslim countries. So it's like current Palestinians are caught in a pissing contest. And that is sad- I'm not going to make excuses for them.

 

Anyways, that is why. Palestine was international territory under Turkey and Britain that was their to give. Germany was not although they did have to pay war reparations out the behind.

[Phantom]

To respond to your newest comment:

 

I guess the main problem for me Aer, is that this suggests that we are incapable of forging any kind of future. That all is pre-determined from the beginning til the end of time.. which runs counter to the biblical idea of free will.. I believe in free will and the that we can make reality and the future whatever we want it to be.. And It seems to me that what some people want it to be, is already written and they're gonna make damn sure it happens so they can be right.

 

Then after the smoke clears and the killing is done, someone talking logic and common sense will get labeled Jesus reincarnated.

 

In my honest opinion, there are some prophecies that absolutely can be purposely fulfilled. Then there are those, like the return of Israel that, in my opinion, defy coincidence. It would have had to have been done on a MASSIVE scale with Jews, Christians, Muslims, and secular atheists all working together to make it happen. Not to mention national treaties, global organizations, etc. However, all of this happened.

 

However, let's say the prophecy that Israel would 'blossom' agriculturally after their return, in my opinion, that one could be controlled. Or let's say Jesus' triumphant entry on a foal was self fulfilled by His death that was prophesied to the year could not have been. Just some more examples.

 

Hope that helps.

[ImWithStupid]

Here's some interesting "end times prophecy" reading that could apply to world events that may be shaping out.

 

The War of Gog and Magog

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[ImWithStupid]

Ezekiel 38 - The Gog and Magog War

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zuYCM0g2kc]YouTube - Ezekiel 38 - The Gog Magog War[/ame]

 

 

Ezekiel 39 - The Gog and Magog War

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1vICEf1TgA&feature=related]YouTube - Ezekiel 39 - The Gog Magog War[/ame]

[Phantom]

Thank you so much for your contribution. Prophecy watchers have their eyes peeled on Russia at the moment. The conflict with Georgia is a jaw hanger for us at the moment. An interesting factoid is that the prophecies relating to Russia reveal almost an air of hesitation on Russia's part concerning their involvement in end time affairs. What makes this interesting is the type of peace treaty they currently have with Muslim nations. Their treaties state they are required to come to the defense of their Muslim allies in the event of any offensive or defensive strike. In other words, they may not like it but according to the treaty it is a requirement.

 

That link also mentions Islam and their possible role in the end times.

 

I'll expound on it upon further request but the Muslims have a 'Messiah' that is prophesied to come in the Hadith known as 'Al Mahdi.' This is the individual the president of Iran claims to be paving the way for. The prophecies of the Mahdi are identical to the prophecies of the Antichrist as warned of in the Christian Bible. Many Christian prophecy watchers believe the Mahdi and the Antichrist are one and the same.

 

Both are foretold to rule for seven years, target Christians and Jews, unite the world under a one-world government (the Mahdi will set up Sharia law), set up a one world religion (the Mahdi' religion being Islam), change the calender (The Mahdi is said to set up the Islamic calender and do away with the Gregorian), both are accompanied by a 'sidekick.' The Antichrist's sidekick is described as looking like a lamb but having horns like the devil and this is odd because the Mahdi is said to be accompanied by Jesus who is submissive to the Mahdi. Jesus is described as a lamb, as most know, and I believe this is a warning not to trust this psuedo-Jesus because although he may claim to be like Jesus (a lamb), he is actually a satanic impostor.

 

Anyways, I could go on and on and on but that is the Cliff notes version. I will be happy to continue if others are interested in learning more.

[wez]

It would have had to have been done on a MASSIVE scale with Jews, Christians, Muslims, and secular atheists all working together to make it happen. Not to mention national treaties, global organizations, etc. However, all of this happened.

 

 

Think something like that could be coordinated by people like this behind the scenes? Maybe Russia and the US aint so different when it comes down to it.. That massive scale shrinks quite a bit..

 

 

History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance. ~ James Madison

 

 

Under the surface, the Rothschilds long had a powerful influence in dictating American financial laws. The law records show that they were powers in the old Bank of the United States [abolished by Andrew Jackson.] ~ Gustav Myers

 

 

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws. ~ Mayer Amschel Rothschild

 

 

I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire, ...The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply. ~ Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild

 

 

The few who could understand the system will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours, that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of the people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests. ~ John Sherman

 

 

The Rothschilds, and that class of money-lenders of whom they are the representatives and agents - men who never think of lending a shilling to their next-door neighbors, for purposes of honest industry, unless upon the most ample security, and at the highest rate of interest - stand ready, at all times, to lend money in unlimited amounts to those robbers and murderers, who call themselves governments, to be expended in shooting down those who do not submit quietly to being robbed and enslaved.' ~ Lysander Spooner

[ImWithStupid]

Thank you so much for your contribution. Prophecy watchers have their eyes peeled on Russia at the moment. The conflict with Georgia is a jaw hanger for us at the moment. An interesting factoid is that the prophecies relating to Russia reveal almost an air of hesitation on Russia's part concerning their involvement in end time affairs. What makes this interesting is the type of peace treaty they currently have with Muslim nations. Their treaties state they are required to come to the defense of their Muslim allies in the event of any offensive or defensive strike. In other words, they may not like it but according to the treaty it is a requirement.

 

That link also mentions Islam and their possible role in the end times.

 

I'll expound on it upon further request but the Muslims have a 'Messiah' that is prophesied to come in the Hadith known as 'Al Mahdi.' This is the individual the president of Iran claims to be paving the way for. The prophecies of the Mahdi are identical to the prophecies of the Antichrist as warned of in the Christian Bible. Many Christian prophecy watchers believe the Mahdi and the Antichrist are one and the same.

 

Both are foretold to rule for seven years, target Christians and Jews, unite the world under a one-world government (the Mahdi will set up Sharia law), set up a one world religion (the Mahdi' religion being Islam), change the calender (The Mahdi is said to set up the Islamic calender and do away with the Gregorian), both are accompanied by a 'sidekick.' The Antichrist's sidekick is described as looking like a lamb but having horns like the devil and this is odd because the Mahdi is said to be accompanied by Jesus who is submissive to the Mahdi. Jesus is described as a lamb, as most know, and I believe this is a warning not to trust this psuedo-Jesus because although he may claim to be like Jesus (a lamb), he is actually a satanic impostor.

 

Anyways, I could go on and on and on but that is the Cliff notes version. I will be happy to continue if others are interested in learning more.

 

The Mahdi is also called the 12th Imam...

 

For those unacquainted with the more obscure tenets of Islamic theology, the 12th Imam is held by devout Shi'ite Muslims to be a direct descendant of the Prophet Mohammed who went into "occlusion" in the ninth century at the age of five and hasn't been seen since.

 

The Hidden Imam, as he is also known by his followers, will only return after a period of cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed – what Christians call the Apocalypse – and then lead the world into an era of universal peace.

 

Rumours abound of Mr Ahmadinejad's devotion to the 12th Imam, and last year it was reported that he had persuaded his cabinet to sign a "contract" pledging themselves to work for his return.

 

Will the 12th Imam cause war with Iran? - Telegraph

 

This is why many believe that Iran's President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is purposely trying to start WWIII, in an effort to force the return of the 12th Imam.

[wez]

So we got fanatics like this nut and crazy mofo's like George Bush on each side eagar to start WW3 and bring their prophesies to fruition.. sweet.

 

Think I'll watch Da Bears...

[ImWithStupid]

So we got fanatics like this nut and crazy mofo's like George Bush on each side eagar to start WW3 and bring their prophesies to fruition.. sweet.

 

Think I'll watch Da Bears...

 

Maybe we should get that trip to Mars thing going. Bring your tent.

[wez]

Maybe we should get that trip to Mars thing going. Bring your tent.

 

I'll rent you half... at a reasonable interest rate, of course..

 

 

Lets see... you do all of our survival work forever, and I wont kick you out of the tent.. Hahahahaha

 

 

The Rothschilds would be proud..

[Phantom]

LOL! @ you guys!

 

IWS: It's so nice to come across someone who knows what I am talking about! Yes, true. Al Mahdi = 12th imam, also known as 'the hidden imam' as he was believed to have gone into occultation. President Amedenijad of Iran said he has been in direct contact with Allah and that it was his mission to prepare the world for the appearance of the Mahdi. Scary stuff. Like the Antichrist, the Mahdi can only appear on the world scene amid chaos and war. This is how they make their entrance as an alleged peace maker.

 

Wez: You raise a good point but the evidence points to religion not only dying but being murdered. Our society is taking an obvious shift towards materialism, secularism, and rationality (which we are erroneously being programmed to believe is the opposite of religion, spirituality, and faith). If you need examples I will happily explain but it should be pretty obvious. Evolution (naturalism) has replaced creationism, nations are ditching their declared religions in favor of secularism, prayer has been taken out of school (not just in America), etc. We live in a protective bubble here in the west but that doesn't mean we are still a religious nation. The East has pretty much become wholly secular and even 'Christian' nations have secular governments. The last strong hold is Islam.

 

Those behind the NWO seem hell bent on destroying Christianity by any means necessary- even propaganda and lies. Some examples would include things like Zeitgeist or creation scientists being shut out of their own field. So, although your argument might have held some weight, in light of the evidence of the paradigm shifts, it is appearing to me it was not a conspiracy to keep the masses under lock and key- especially using the Judeo Christian faith of all things- the NWO's enemy. Remember, nothing warns against the NWO as loudly and as adamantly as the Bible.

 

Lastly, this prophecy was discovered by Dr. Grant Jeffrey in the 90's- not prior to 1948. The 'to the day' prophecy could not have been forced because it was not yet known. He executed the Bible math approximately 40 years after the fact although the passages had existed for around 2,700 years. Then just for fun, I find the astronomical tetrads coinciding with Israel's rebirth and reunification of Jerusalem amazing.

 

I also don't want to get too stuck on this one prophecy- there are literally hundreds. It's imperative we remember the Bible is 35-40% prophecy by volume. It is impossible to say they were all self fulfilled.

[ImWithStupid]

I also don't want to get too stuck on this one prophecy- there are literally hundreds. It's imperative we remember the Bible is 35-40% prophecy by volume. It is impossible to say they were all self fulfilled.

 

I read something about there being roughly 1,500 prophecies in the Bible, about 1,000 have been recognized as possibly being fullfilled and 500 since 1948. That's about 1/3 since the return of Israel. That's a lot in such a short time.

[Phantom]

And it's exciting as all heck! We are definitely in the end times in my opinion. Not only have hundreds of prophecies been fulfilled in our time to the most minute detail, we are currently seeing 'the chessboard' being set for the things that are supposed to be fulfilled in the future. There is not a doubt left in my mind that God is real and He is the God of the Bible. I no longer take my Christian faith on...er... faith. lol There is hope in faith but there is confidence in knowledge. Exciting times we are living in.

 

Amazingly even further that all of these things would coincide with the season of Israel's rebirth.

 

Thanks for all your contributions.

[wez]

So if this is true, and our free will to change it is nil, what are your plans for the NWO? How will you avoid the "mark" to buy and sell? Or do you believe you will be taken during the rapture and get to avoid all the fun?

 

Know whats kinda funny.. I've pretty much avoided buying and selling my whole life as much as possible.. felt right for some reason. Always hated what money did to people. Never wanted to own anything except myself.

[ImWithStupid]

So if this is true, and our free will to change it is nil, what are your plans for the NWO? How will you avoid the "mark" to buy and sell? Or do you believe you will be taken during the rapture and get to avoid all the fun?

 

If all this is true, and was prophecised in the Bible through the work of prophets, who was given the plan, from God, it would support the idea that everything is God's plan and perhaps, there's nothing we can do. We just have to wait and see.

[wez]

If all this is true, and was prophecised in the Bible through the work of prophets, who was given the plan, from God, it would support the idea that everything is God's plan and perhaps, there's nothing we can do. We just have to wait and see.

 

 

So we have free will only to pass a pre-ordained test? I'm ready... Suffering is my middle name.

[ImWithStupid]

I'll rent you half... at a reasonable interest rate, of course..

 

 

Lets see... you do all of our survival work forever, and I wont kick you out of the tent.. Hahahahaha

 

 

The Rothschilds would be proud..

 

Deal. I'll bring a knife, hatchet, some guns and salt and pepper to properly season the local fauna...

 

[attach=full]2069[/attach]

 

I guess I better bring my "Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator" also. My research shows that it seems to be a hot item on Mars.

[Phantom]

Yes, I believe the rapture will take place before the tribulation. Then those left during the tribulation can be saved by accepting Jesus and denying the mark.

[wez]

Yes, I believe the rapture will take place before the tribulation. Then those left during the tribulation can be saved by accepting Jesus and denying the mark.

 

 

So you think you will avoid the tribulation by accepting Jesus now? And what does that mean? Having lived by his words to that point?