Bible Prophecy & The Scientfic Method

[Phantom]

Well, the apostles asked Jesus point blank what they needed to do to be 'saved.' Remember they were Jews who were used to the rigor of the Old Testament Laws. However, instead of giving them a long string of commands, rites, rituals, and rules to follow, His only reply was to believe in the one who was sent. And that obviously was, Jesus Himself. So yes, it's the old saying of accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. Accepting Him in your heart and proclaiming Him with your words. He also comes down to our level and works with us. We are not perfect overnight- or ever really- but it is a slow progression of the Holy Spirit making you a new creature.

 

We are told if we ask, we receive. It's as simple as asking. It's free.

[wez]

Well, the apostles asked Jesus point blank what they needed to do to be 'saved.' Remember they were Jews who were used to the rigor of the Old Testament Laws. However, instead of giving them a long string of commands, rites, rituals, and rules to follow, His only reply was to believe in the one who was sent. And that obviously was, Jesus Himself. So yes, it's the old saying of accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. Accepting Him in your heart and proclaiming Him with your words. He also comes down to our level and works with us. We are not perfect overnight- or ever really- but it is a slow progression of the Holy Spirit making you a new creature.

 

We are told if we ask, we receive. It's as simple as asking. It's free.

 

I think of it more to be if we give, we receive.. we forgive, to be forgiven. We do unto others what we would have them do unto us. I think one must understand what Jesus taught to truly accept him into their heart and believe in him... And live by his example.

 

Matthew 6:9-15

This, then, is how you should pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

[Phantom]

Absolutely. As you grow, you learn to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Jesus says come to Him as you are then He restores us. Grace is easy and free but it still takes a denial of the flesh.

[wez]

Matthew 18:21-35

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

 

 

Seems those who judge, label and look down on others for what they, themselves are, might be in trouble, eh?

[ImWithStupid]

Seems those who judge, label and look down on others for what they, themselves are, might be in trouble, eh?

 

Only if they don't forgive, repent and accept before the end.

[Guest Bigwhammy]

Hi I am a friend of the Phantom - that's my voice in the 2 videos. Just popping in to see how it's going. Some people seem to be confused about Gods knowledge of the future meaning their destiny is pre determined - hence they are not responsible for their decisions. Nothing could be further from the truth. God can know the future without causing it because he lives in more dimensions than we do - outside of the confines of our time dimension.

 

Think of it like watching a parade at street level- you see each float - band etc - come by in linear order. However if you were to watch the parade from a helicopter you would see the entire parade and you would know how it ended. But that doesn't mean you forced it to end that way.

 

Hope that helps. Nice forum!

[Phantom]

OMG! You joined! Awesome! So glad to see you!!

[Guest Bigwhammy]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zuYCM0g2kc]YouTube - Ezekiel 38 - The Gog Magog War[/ame]

 

This prophecy of Gog Magog is coming to pass as we speak it looks like. It's pretty exciting to live in a time period that is the most discussed period of time in the entire Bible , even more than when Jesus walked the earth.

[ImWithStupid]

This prophecy of Gog Magog is coming to pass as we speak it looks like. It's pretty exciting to live in a time period that is the most discussed period of time in the entire Bible , even more than when Jesus walked the earth.

 

http://Off Topic Forum.com/on-topic-bs/26339-bible-prophecy-and-the-scientfic-method.html#post68844

[Phantom]

This just in. Gog Magog/Ezekiel starting? Highly possible:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uflMj7cD3QY&feature=email]YouTube - Russia Gives Nato 21 Days To Leave Black Sea[/ame]

[timesjoke]

I just want to say I like your thread Phantom, lots of great information and your personal knowledge of the Bible is a welcome addition to any discussion of this type. Most seem to enjoy picking one verse from the Bible and using it out of context to try and twist things for their own purposes.

 

 

I have a question for you, when the Bible tells us that all people will know about God yet we know for fact that many people even now are never exposed to a "Christian" religion, how do you balance this part of it's teachings?

 

 

I have always said God made man, man made the many religions. Man has never done anything perfect so how can we expect there to be a "perfect" religion? A big question is with all these splinters of faith, who is right and if only one is right, are the rest condemned?

 

 

I would say no, in my own research I feel the common elements show a God who is not concerned with the splintered possitions of man to attempt to worship 'him' but is instead concerned with what we hold in our hearts and our actions. We do not get a Johnnie L. Cochran to mitigate our actions with God at our end.

[Guest Bigwhammy]

I just want to say I like your thread Phantom, lots of great information and your personal knowledge of the Bible is a welcome addition to any discussion of this type. Most seem to enjoy picking one verse from the Bible and using it out of context to try and twist things for their own purposes.

 

 

I have a question for you, when the Bible tells us that all people will know about God yet we know for fact that many people even now are never exposed to a "Christian" religion, how do you balance this part of it's teachings?

 

 

Here's my opinion on this one for what it's worth...

 

Matt. 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

 

 

I would contend that ALL nations have now been penetrated, and ALL language groups have been reached. With the mass media, internet, missionaries etc. This is the first time in history that this prophecy could possibly be fulfilled!

[timesjoke]

Here's my opinion on this one for what it's worth...

 

Matt. 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

 

 

I would contend that ALL nations have now been penetrated, and ALL language groups have been reached. With the mass media, internet, missionaries etc. This is the first time in history that this prophecy could possibly be fulfilled!

 

And yet there are still many people who never hear a 'Christian' faith preached. If we take this verse litteral, it says this gospel will be "preached" in the whole world, this is clearly not the case right now and if partial coverage is enough now, why not ten years ago or even 50 years ago, or even 500 years ago? Do you know how long we have had missionaries all over the world? Penetrations have been made long before there was even a thought of mass media.

 

Matthew 24:36-No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

Matthew 24:43-But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

If the end of days was measurable or predictable, why would we be told that we will be taken by surprise? That the time is not known to anyone but God?

[Phantom]

Many good question, TJ! I will be back tonight to answer them. I explained it a bit before in this thread when Wez asked the same question about what happens to those who never hear. It's in this thread if you look. It is a good and even important question that certainly deserves an answer. Be back tonight.

[Guest Fullauto]

So we got fanatics like this nut and crazy mofo's like George Bush on each side eagar to start WW3 and bring their prophesies to fruition.. sweet.

 

Think I'll watch Da Bears...

 

Bush is NOT smart enough to start WWIII... I really wish people would stop bashing him for he has nothing to do with... I KNOW he's to blame for some pretty stupid decisions, but he mental weakness is no excuse to verbally bash him for things he has nothing to do with...

 

We, as a nation, must learn to fact check a bissle more...

[wez]

Bush is NOT smart enough to start WWIII... I really wish people would stop bashing him for he has nothing to do with... I KNOW he's to blame for some pretty stupid decisions, but he mental weakness is no excuse to verbally bash him for things he has nothing to do with...

 

We, as a nation, must learn to fact check a bissle more...

 

President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

 

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

 

 

Abu Mazen was at the same meeting and recounts how President Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

 

 

Please explain...

 

 

I verbally bash him for being a lying sack of sh t war criminal. Maybe a lying sack of sh t war criminal accessory to the fact at the very least... or a pile of sh t puppet .. either way..

[wez]

Hi I am a friend of the Phantom - that's my voice in the 2 videos. Just popping in to see how it's going. Some people seem to be confused about Gods knowledge of the future meaning their destiny is pre determined - hence they are not responsible for their decisions. Nothing could be further from the truth. God can know the future without causing it because he lives in more dimensions than we do - outside of the confines of our time dimension.

 

Think of it like watching a parade at street level- you see each float - band etc - come by in linear order. However if you were to watch the parade from a helicopter you would see the entire parade and you would know how it ended. But that doesn't mean you forced it to end that way.

 

Hope that helps. Nice forum!

 

 

Hey BW.. welcome.. good to have ya here.

[wez]

So looking at what GB said.. in the context of this thread, it seems to me he's quite actively engaged in trying to make bible prophesies come true by killing people and manipulating human events on a massive scale., wouldn't ya say? Peace in Israel? What's the bible say about that?

 

Is he sure God didn't tell him he was a lying sack of sh t?

[Guest Fullauto]

So looking at what GB said.. in the context of this thread, it seems to me he's quite actively engaged in trying to make bible prophesies come true by killing people and manipulating human events on a massive scale., wouldn't ya say? Peace in Israel? What's the bible say about that?

 

GW has a heart 50 times bigger than his brain... that is ALL he is guilty of... Iraq was a BRILLIANT MOVE, if you know anything about foreign policy and war posturing... Rest assured, that choice was not his... I'm sure he thinks HE made that decision, but he did not... that decision was made by the Joint

Chiefs of Staff in about 1995...

 

I have personally run the simulations, and read the playbook on that manuver in about 1996... well before any of this 'GW is a right-wing Xtian' bs...

 

He is a Xtian... and He is an Idiot... But he is not guilty of 98% of the BS people throw at him... He is a target and an walking represenative in the religiously minded in this country... and the looney left hates him for it, because they can't hate the half of the nation that he represents without getting punched in the face.. Liberals are ultimately pussies, and will not stand alone

 

How old are you Wez?

[wez]

GW has a heart 50 times bigger than his brain... that is ALL he is guilty of... Iraq was a BRILLIANT MOVE, if you know anything about foreign policy and war posturing... Rest assured, that choice was not his... I'm sure he thinks HE made that decision, but he did not... that decision was made by the Joint

Chiefs of Staff in about 1995...

 

I have personally run the simulations, and read the playbook on that manuver in about 1996... well before any of this 'GW is a right-wing Xtian' bs...

 

He is a Xtian... and He is an Idiot... But he is not guilty of 98% of the BS people throw at him... He is a target and an walking represenative in the religiously minded in this country... and the looney left hates him for it, because they can't hate the half of the nation that he represents without getting punched in the face.. Liberals are ultimately pussies, and will not stand alone

 

How old are you Wez?

 

39... with eyes of a child.

 

 

What was so brilliant about it?

[Guest Fullauto]

39... with eyes of a child.

 

 

What was so brilliant about it?

 

Like it or not, our country is run on oil... and further more than that, our military runs on oil..

 

when I was in the AF, I was told that the entire armed forces of the US, had slightly less than 1 month of fuel for operations if the global oil market exploded...

That's NOT civilian operations... That's NOT you driving to your job... That's NOT the trucks making sure that there is bread on the shelves, even IF we could produce bread because our ovens run on gas and electricity that is all part of a HydroCarbon (HC) market... Not to mention the agriculture in this country is almost ENTIRELY run on, and fertilized by, HC...

 

so... There we were... 9/10/01... things were good (relatively). We had already waged a war in Iraq, and a CEASE FIRE was signed... The war wasn't over, but at least we were not active on the ground...

 

9/11/01... sad day...

 

9/12/01... Our nation realized just how ed we were in this new Globalized environment...

 

We needed to secure our Oil... at least untill we could figure out how to get off it...

We didn't need to declare war to start back up with Iraq.. All we had to do legally was to smack em... but we tried to go for the up and up... went to the 'United League of Nations', That completly useless body in NYC, and did our thing...

 

what we have now, is FAR better than what could have been...

 

and I can tell you right now, that that manuver had been on the playbooks for a LONG TIME...

 

Global Politics is basically Chess for resources... and we took center board early... which is good... VERY GOOD... 56,000 dead/injured in Vietnam and it accomplished nothing... 3,000 dead in Iraq and we have bought our republic some time... time to prepare... WWIII is inevitable... GW has NOTHING to do with it... He's a Chimp...

 

iraq was both good, and neccesary...

I will agree, it's time to consider rolling back the troop levels...

I will agree, that to most people (the 80%'ers) Iraq seems to be a disaster... Not so

[wez]

So 9/11 was just people trying to protect themselves and their property from us, and we are actually the terrorists? eh?

 

Oh the joy... I can drive my car over a mountain of bodies and buy bread off a shelf. I'm so proud to be an American..

 

So if I want something from you, it's ok for me to kill you and take it? Why would you value your life so little?

 

 

 

How vile and despicable war seems to me! I would rather be hacked to pieces than take part in such an abominable business. ~ Albert Einstein

 

 

BTW.. I at least appreciate your honesty about it..

 

Some people actually think we kill for the good of the people we kill..

 

Ya know, perhaps it woulda been better to work, produce things, and buy oil in good faith instead of work to produce an army to murder, steal, and plunder for it.. Unless you enjoy people doing that to you..

[timesjoke]

Many good question, TJ! I will be back tonight to answer them. I explained it a bit before in this thread when Wez asked the same question about what happens to those who never hear. It's in this thread if you look. It is a good and even important question that certainly deserves an answer. Be back tonight.

 

Well I have Wez on block because of the way he 'pretends' to not know the difference between a terrorist who prefers to kill a bus filled with children and Bush, I will keep him on block because he does this on purpose because he feeds on strife, not because he truly believes the crap he says. It is actually very sad, I actually believe he is a very smart guy and could offer a lot more to these discussions from that possition instead of his 'self martyr' possition but I guess that is not what his personality needs at this time.

 

 

What I saw you quote does not really explain how we can be in the 'range' of the end times when there are massive amounts of people who do not have the chance to be exposed to 'Christian' religion, such as the Muslim masses who learn to recite the Quran from listening to tapes because they will never know how to read or even places like Darfur where yes, there are missionaries but waking up each day is a surprise and food is non-existent. Learning about a new religion is not really high on the list of things to do for these people.

 

 

 

To help the discussion go faster, my own belief is almost all religions are worshiping the same God but maybe there were different expectations or directions God desired from these different groups, much like the example given for God seeing a parade from the air instead of the ground like we do. Maybe Gods plan is beyond our ability to understand it completely. I believe the biggest mistake we make as modern man is to look at these writings from our perspective, we add in our modern understandings of things but the audience of these actions and the people involved had a tiny exposure on the world, there was no mass media or internet so is it possible that these things were instructed a certain way for their understanding and area?

 

To me the understanding of God is inside us all, sure we can find some great things in the Bible to assist us in connecting to God but even a small child knows right from wrong because they 'feel' it inside themselves.

[wez]

Well I have Wez on block because of the way he 'pretends' to not know the difference between a terrorist who prefers to kill a bus filled with children and Bush, I will keep him on block because he does this on purpose because he feeds on strife, not because he truly believes the crap he says. It is actually very sad, I actually believe he is a very smart guy and could offer a lot more to these discussions from that possition instead of his 'self martyr' possition but I guess that is not what his personality needs at this time.

 

 

 

 

The reason TJ has me on block is because I wont willingly swallow his sh t and ask him simple questions that he can't answer without hypocrisy and personal attacks.

 

 

If you block me, fine, then leave my name out of your vomit.

[Guest Fullauto]

So 9/11 was just people trying to protect themselves and their property from us, and we are actually the terrorists? eh?

 

didn't say anything remotely close to that... we were making a move to protect our resources from a faceless global threat... you like to spin things...

 

Oh the joy... I can drive my car over a mountain of bodies and buy bread off a shelf. I'm so proud to be an American..

 

ehhh? somewhere, there is un an unfilled prescription bottle...

 

So if I want something from you, it's ok for me to kill you and take it? Why would you value your life so little?

 

It's not ok... never said it was... at least by my perspective...

but if you have a child, and he will starve without food, and I have the only food, I would think less of you as a man unless you tried to secure it... by whatever means... We must protect our own... I guess the only difference between most people is where they draw the line between 'us' and 'them'...

 

and yes... I do value life... but there is a hierarchy... My people are more important to me than thier people...

 

How vile and despicable war seems to me! I would rather be hacked to pieces than take part in such an abominable business. ~ Albert Einstein

 

ok... Let's not allow scientists to make war... like we shouldn't allow priests to run daycare... Neither are well suited...

 

 

BTW.. I at least appreciate your honesty about it..

 

Some people actually think we kill for the good of the people we kill..

 

Ya know, perhaps it woulda been better to work, produce things, and buy oil in good faith instead of work to produce an army to murder, steal, and plunder for it.. Unless you enjoy people doing that to you..

 

acutally... for the most part... we do... We work, make money, buy oil with that money, and such... Problem is, we have been exporting our depraved culture for years to pay for that oil. Not cars, not tvs, not well written books... a sick and terminal culture... and they hate us for it... and I must say, thought I don't agree with thier assesment of our culture as a whole, and I certainly don't think we should die for it, I do understand why they are so upset...