Bible Prophecy & The Scientfic Method

[wez]

didn't say anything remotely close to that... we were making a move to protect our resources from a faceless global threat... you like to spin things...

 

What resources would those be?

 

 

 

ehhh? somewhere, there is un an unfilled prescription bottle...

 

 

Would you think the same if it was your body I was driving over?

 

 

 

It's not ok... never said it was... at least by my perspective...

but if you have a child, and he will starve without food, and I have the only food, I would think less of you as a man unless you tried to secure it... by whatever means... We must protect our own... I guess the only difference between most people is where they draw the line between 'us' and 'them'...

 

Us = every human that has ever existed or will exist on Earth..

 

Them = Aliens??

 

and yes... I do value life... but there is a hierarchy... My people are more important to me than thier people...

 

You can value your life no more than the life you value least, even if you think you do. And your comment above this one spells out how much that is.. Worth the food someone else wants from you.. Or the food you want from someone else. Secured by any means up to and including murder.

 

 

ok... Let's not allow scientists to make war... like we shouldn't allow priests to run daycare... Neither are well suited...

 

 

Might = right is for the stupid.. Ya know.. it'd be fine if they contained it to themselves and those willing participants and left the rest of us the f ck out of it..Doesn't seem to work that way though, does it?

 

Not smart for the stupid to run the planet either.

 

Or I guess I should say the brilliantly evil with their legions of stupidity.

 

 

 

acutally... for the most part... we do... We work, make money, buy oil with that money, and such... Problem is, we have been exporting our depraved culture for years to pay for that oil. Not cars, not tvs, not well written books... a sick and terminal culture... and they hate us for it... and I must say, thought I don't agree with thier assesment of our culture as a whole, and I certainly don't think we should die for it, I do understand why they are so upset...

 

 

You mean we borrow money and kill people? Perhaps it's that and not our other culture they hate us for..

[Guest Fullauto]

What resources would those be?

Well... a couple of things... but the two biguns are

1. Oil... Energy as a whole actually... we need it, they have it, and without it we will plunge into a civil war and most would die, as well as the western world crumble as a result..

 

2. Security... During both world wars, our stock and trade was selling security... in 1914, Europe burned, but world money was safe here, in the us... In 1941, Europe and indeed a good part of Asia burned... But the money was still sort of safe here... so long as an atom bomb didn't make it here... Again, we sold security... Not cars.. not tvs... security... Our whole economy was based in it

 

When 9/11 happened Our economy threatened to collapse as foreign markets began to swell with capital drawn out from our banks at 1929 speed because bin Laden had managed to hit us right in the crotch... Our ability to sceure money... foreign powers and investors ran for the hills...

 

We had to secure our borders, and to that, we must secure our energy... Our energy at the moment, but I suspect not for long, comes in the form of HydroCarbons... From the Middle east primarily... and we just installed an allie right in the middle of it...

 

 

Would you think the same if it was your body I was driving over?

 

Like I said... I wouldn't agree with it, but I would expect it...

 

 

Us = every human that has ever existed or will exist on Earth..

 

you had better hope everyone one feels the same way, or your busted when the fighting starts... somehow, I suspect they don't... good luck with that...

 

You can value your life no more than the life you value least, even if you think you do. And your comment above this one spells out how much that is.. Worth the food someone else wants from you.. Or the food you want from someone else.

 

Not sure what you mean... I definately value some life more than others... So do 99% of people...

 

 

Might = right is for the stupid.. Ya know.. it'd be fine if they contained it to themselves and those willing participants and left the rest of us the f ck out of it..Doesn't seem to work that way though, does it?

 

of course not... it's not a ing boxing match... it's survival.. No holds barred... would you have us standing in lines like the Brits during the Revolution inthe interest of conformity? I would think not if it were your ass behind the barrel...

 

Not smart for the stupid to run the planet either.

you are HARDLY in any position to judge world leaders... I'm going to guess that most are not dumb...

 

 

You mean we borrow money and kill people? Perhaps it's that and not our other culture they hate us for..

 

The Governments maybe... probable as a matter of ut the average schmuck on the streets of Iran, are like you... They have very little appreciation for global strategy, or anything much past what they read in the paper, watch on the TV or see around them everyday... For us, it seems to be stupid TV shows that we care about... For them, it's the fact that thier children are singing american songs and wearing Blue jeans... It's all relative...

[wez]

Well... a couple of things... but the two biguns are

1. Oil... Energy as a whole actually... we need it, they have it, and without it we will plunge into a civil war and most would die, as well as the western world crumble as a result..

 

2. Security... During both world wars, our stock and trade was selling security... in 1914, Europe burned, but world money was safe here, in the us... In 1941, Europe and indeed a good part of Asia burned... But the money was still sort of safe here... so long as an atom bomb didn't make it here... Again, we sold security... Not cars.. not tvs... security... Our whole economy was based in it

 

How did humanity survive for thousands of years? So you're telling me our only choice is murder and thievery?

 

I guess if ya spend 60 years prancing around the Earth like a tough guy and one day you grow old and weak and can't run your war machine anymore it might be kinda scarey.. some young buck might wanna come and knock you off your high horse, eh?

 

We made our bed I guess...

 

When 9/11 happened Our economy threatened to collapse as foreign markets began to swell with capital drawn out from our banks at 1929 speed because bin Laden had managed to hit us right in the crotch... Our ability to sceure money... foreign powers and investors ran for the hills...

 

We had to secure our borders, and to that, we must secure our energy... Our energy at the moment, but I suspect not for long, comes in the form of HydroCarbons... From the Middle east primarily... and we just installed an allie right in the middle of it...

 

It's a game we will ultimately lose.. regardless of what we do or who we kill or whatever resources we "secure".

 

 

 

 

Like I said... I wouldn't agree with it, but I would expect it...

 

Just protecting my own..

 

 

 

 

you had better hope everyone one feels the same way, or your busted when the fighting starts... somehow, I suspect they don't... good luck with that...

 

Rather die with dignity than live a few more years in disgrace..

 

 

 

Not sure what you mean... I definately value some life more than others... So do 99% of people...

 

Illusions.

 

 

 

 

of course not... it's not a ing boxing match... it's survival.. No holds barred... would you have us standing in lines like the Brits during the Revolution inthe interest of conformity? I would think not if it were your ass behind the barrel...

 

We are no longer primative animals without intelligence no matter what the armies of the world teach kids..

 

 

you are HARDLY in any position to judge world leaders... I'm going to guess that most are not dumb...

 

 

I fixed it before you posted..

 

....Or I guess I should say the brilliantly evil with their legions of stupidity.

 

If the shoe fits..

 

 

 

 

The Governments maybe... probable as a matter of ut the average schmuck on the streets of Iran, are like you... They have very little appreciation for global strategy, or anything much past what they read in the paper, watch on the TV or see around them everyday... For us, it seems to be stupid TV shows that we care about... For them, it's the fact that thier children are singing american songs and wearing Blue jeans... It's all relative...

 

 

Nobody likes to be bullied, robbed, and murdered.

[Phantom]

And yet there are still many people who never hear a 'Christian' faith preached. If we take this verse litteral, it says this gospel will be "preached" in the whole world, this is clearly not the case right now and if partial coverage is enough now, why not ten years ago or even 50 years ago, or even 500 years ago? Do you know how long we have had missionaries all over the world? Penetrations have been made long before there was even a thought of mass media.

 

Matthew 24:36-No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

Matthew 24:43-But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

 

If the end of days was measurable or predictable, why would we be told that we will be taken by surprise? That the time is not known to anyone but God?

 

1). So you do not believe the Gospel has been spread to the whole world? The prophecy does not say every single human being on the planet will know about Jesus or the Gospel story but it does say all nations and races. In my opinion, this is already taking place. Even the deepest jungles of Africa now have Christianity being taught and spread. There really is no 'uncharted territory' left in the world. The Gospel truly is taught globally now.

 

2). We believe the rapture is the unknown event Jesus speaks about. This is because we are given the specific length of time (in years and days) of how long the tribulation will last. Jesus also admonishes us to look for the signs of His return. He even jumped the behinds of the Pharisees for not being able to realize the time they were in (the time of the Daniel's 70 weeks and the prophesied Messiah). He used the analogy of weather. He told them they could look up in the sky and tell what the weather would be like but they couldn't even discern the times. So we might not know the day but we certainly know the season. Jesus used another analogy of the fig tree and its relation to summer and told us to keep watch.

 

Hope that helps.

[Phantom]

As for the Bush saga: As most of you know. I was an avid Bush supporter when everyone here knew me before but a lot has changed. Bush might possibly be a Christian- we're not allowed to judge- however he is doing somethings the Bible specifically prohibits. And that is, attempting to divide the land of Israel. The prophecies speak of the reborn Israel being divided in the last days, more specifically, leaders attempting to divide it. How true this is with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and the peace plans that attempt to make a sovereign state for both. Of course, this requires Israel giving up some of its territory.

 

I have a very hard time believing a God-fearing man, that Bush claims to be, doing such a thing.

 

An acquaintance mentioned this before and sometimes it makes me wonder. We strongly believe Christianity and other religions are being phased out slowly but surely. This is going to be a wild-eyed conspiracy for some but it does make me wonder if Bush is a NWO puppet purposely giving Christians a bad name. Another acquaintance stumbled on some pretty shameful footage of Bush lambasting the Christian faith. It was pretty shocking for me, an ex avid Bush supporter. So the conspiratorial side of me wonders if all the 'God told me to go to war' things are just a way to set Christians up for a fall. Not sure. Just thought I'd share.

[wez]

As for the Bush saga: As most of you know. I was an avid Bush supporter when everyone here knew me before but a lot has changed. Bush might possibly be a Christian- we're not allowed to judge- however he is doing somethings the Bible specifically prohibits. And that is, attempting to divide the land of Israel. The prophecies speak of the reborn Israel being divided in the last days, more specifically, leaders attempting to divide it. How true this is with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and the peace plans that attempt to make a sovereign state for both. Of course, this requires Israel giving up some of its territory.

 

I have a very hard time believing a God-fearing man, that Bush claims to be, doing such a thing.

 

An acquaintance mentioned this before and sometimes it makes me wonder. We strongly believe Christianity and other religions are being phased out slowly but surely. This is going to be a wild-eyed conspiracy for some but it does make me wonder if Bush is a NWO puppet purposely giving Christians a bad name. Another acquaintance stumbled on some pretty shameful footage of Bush lambasting the Christian faith. It was pretty shocking for me, an ex avid Bush supporter. So the conspiratorial side of me wonders if all the 'God told me to go to war' things are just a way to set Christians up for a fall. Not sure. Just thought I'd share.

 

Well said Aer.. It sure would seem like he's a NWO puppet.. his daddy used those exact words enough.. Too bad all real Christians don't stand up to people like him and many others who hide behind their religion to spread evil and say, these people are not Christians and quit smearing everything we believe in with lies and hypocrisy.

 

Real Christians aren't liars and hypocrites ~ wez

[Phantom]

Is anyone else keeping up with prophecy? Looks like a butt load of Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled within the last couple of months. This is incredible. Even Bible teachers who had been telling us not to get too excited because there is still much to be fulfilled are now vocally saying things are really speeding up at an increasing rate. One by one the prophecies we have been watching for are being fulfilled or the chess board is being set. It's like every time I watch the news it's just more and more signs.

[ImWithStupid]

Real Christians are delusional that Religion even exists. I don't believe in Religion, I don't believe in Bible prophecy, and I don't believe Christ was God on Earth.

 

The problem is, there are dangerous radical, world leaders like Ahmadinejad, those responsible for the Crusades, whacked out cult leaders, and the far extremes of all religions, who do believe in these things, and will try to fullfill these false prophecies, regardless of the cost.

 

Who knows, we all won't make it past December 21st, 2012, according to the Myans.

 

ALL ABOUT 2012

 

It's just as credible as the Bible.

[Phantom]

ALL ABOUT 2012

 

It's just as credible as the Bible.

 

No, actually it isn't.

 

The Mayans did actually have prophecies but they were nowhere near on par with the Bible, nevertheless the accuracy when it comes to fulfillment. Same thing with the Aztecs. Their belief in their false prophecies were even one of the things that ultimately led to their downfall. Their prophecies stated a long-faced fair-colored man with a beard would be their god returning to them from across the sea. Then here comes Cortes who was greeted with open arms by the natives. Oops! Not a god, but an asshole. Buh-bye Aztecs.

 

But the main point is this: Their calender was not necessarily a prophecy. Modern people are the ones turning it into one. 2012 simply ends their long count. Let's say a future civilization 500 years from now uncovers a Gregorian calender. They will say, 'Ah ha! December 31, 3000 ends the milineum. This is the end of the world!' But of course it isn't- it is simply the end of our 'long count.'

 

The only thing about the 2012 prophecy that intrigues me personally is the fact of the science behind it, the position of the earth at that date, and the possible future polar shift (that might be a reference to Revelation 6).

 

But the fact remains, their calender was not a prophecy- we turned it into that. Then, their prophecies were nowhere near as accurate or 'credible' as the Bible's. Biblical prophecy has a track record matched by none other. That is simply a fact.

[ImWithStupid]

 

The only thing about the 2012 prophecy that intrigues me personally is the fact of the science behind it, the position of the earth at that date, and the possible future polar shift (that might be a reference to Revelation 6).

 

If this was correct, and it related to Revelation 6, in conjunction to the Bible, wouldn't that support Judeaism and disprove Christianity?

 

The Myans couldn't have known of Christ at that time.

[timesjoke]

 

1). So you do not believe the Gospel has been spread to the whole world? The prophecy does not say every single human being on the planet will know about Jesus or the Gospel story but it does say all nations and races. In my opinion, this is already taking place. Even the deepest jungles of Africa now have Christianity being taught and spread. There really is no 'uncharted territory' left in the world. The Gospel truly is taught globally now.

 

But Christianity first hit Africa in the fifteenth centery, that is why I have asked why now? Why not a long time ago if just 'partial' coverage is the requirement because we can say that all areas have been 'exposed' to the Christian faith for a very long time.

 

We all know that many people like my earlier examples and many, many others, never get any exposure to Christian gospel so again, if massive amounts of people still cannot get the chance to know of a Christian God, how can we say they can be judged?

 

2). We believe the rapture is the unknown event Jesus speaks about. This is because we are given the specific length of time (in years and days) of how long the tribulation will last. Jesus also admonishes us to look for the signs of His return. He even jumped the behinds of the Pharisees for being able to realize the time they were in (the time of the Daniel's 70 weeks and the prophesied Messiah). He used the analogy of weather. He told them they could look up in the sky and tell what the weather would be like but they couldn't even discern the time of His first advent. So we might not know the day but we certainly know the season. Jesus used another analogy of the fig tree and its relation to summer and told us to keep watch.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Matthew 24:34-Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

The context of "this generation" is widely discussed but many say this means the chance has come and gone for this prediction.

 

I believe "this generation" instead meant a generation to come but also we have to go further into Matthew and see that we clearly cannot predict the time this will happen.

 

Matthew 24:44-Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

I have difficulty believing any attempt to predict this can be accurate because we are specifically told that we cannot know when this will happen and it will be like a thief in the night, comming without warning.

[Phantom]

If this was correct, and it related to Revelation 6, in conjunction to the Bible, wouldn't that support Judeaism and disprove Christianity?

 

The Myans couldn't have known of Christ at that time.

 

How so? Revelation is in the Christian New Testament. Because the Jewish Tanakh does not consist of the New Testament texts, how would this support Judaism and disprove Christianity?

 

Also, no I do not believe the Mayans knew of Christ or the Christian Bible until the Europeans arrived. What exactly are you asking? Are you trying to imply due to the fact their long count ends exactly at 2012 when the earth will be at the center of our galaxy? Well, the Mayans were aces at astronomy. We do believe their calenders were based on that. In fact, in some cases, their science was more accurate than ours is today.

 

However, it is only speculation that Revelation 6 has anything to do with the possible polar shift of 2012. Some scholars looked at the prophecy and noticed it mentions what some scientists think will occur if the world undergoes a sudden gravitational polar shift. It's all speculation, though. No one really knows exactly what the effects will be on the earth during that time or if a polar shift occurs at all whether or not it will be sudden or gradual. Our planet already has gradual polar shifting and weakening gravity. That is simply due to physics and the second law of thermodynamics dealing with entropy. Our magnetic fields are definitely weakening and some scientists are teaming up with 2012 doomsdayers to say this 2012 polar shift is it. However, the honest thing to say is that nobody really knows yet. We have never witnessed a polar shift or the effects before to know anything for sure.

[ImWithStupid]

How so? Revelation is in the Christian New Testament. Because the Jewish Tanakh does not consist of the New Testament texts, how would this support Judaism and disprove Christianity?

 

Also, no I do not believe the Mayans knew of Christ or the Christian Bible until the Europeans arrived. What exactly are you asking? Are you trying to imply due to the fact their long count ends exactly at 2012 when the earth will be at the center of our galaxy? Well, the Mayans were aces at astronomy. We do believe their calenders were based on that. In fact, in some cases, their science was more accurate than ours is today.

 

However, it is only speculation that Revelation 6 has anything to do with the possible polar shift of 2012. Some scholars looked at the prophecy and noticed it mentions what some scientists think will occur if the world undergoes a sudden gravitational polar shift. It's all speculation, though. No one really knows exactly what the effects will be on the earth during that time or if a polar shift occurs at all whether or not it will be sudden or gradual. Our planet already has gradual polar shifting and weakening gravity. That is simply due to physics and the second law of thermodynamics dealing with entropy. Our magnetic fields are definitely weakening and some scientists are teaming up with 2012 doomsdayers to say this 2012 polar shift is it. However, the honest thing to say is that nobody really knows yet. We have never witnessed a polar shift or the effects before to know anything for sure.

 

So if the Myans were right and nothing in the Bible can be backwards linked to 12/21/2012 then that disproves Bible Prophecy?

[ImWithStupid]

Why is 12/21/2012 able to be linked to more cultures than Bible prophecy? The Chinese were also far advanced as far as science and astronomy...

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAtgPaggeTM&feature=related]YouTube - December 21 2012 the END? (Part 1 of 6).[/ame]

 

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FodtX8C2SCA&feature=related]YouTube - December 21 2012 the END? (Part 2 of 6).[/ame]

 

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txFNP3A5WnM&feature=related]YouTube - December 21 2012 the END? (Part 3 of 6).[/ame]

 

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoIMDq-ckhk&feature=related]YouTube - December 21 2012 the END? (Part 4 of 6).[/ame]

 

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfd8zEWubIY&feature=related]YouTube - The End? (Part 5 of 6).[/ame]

 

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5c90e0Df9c&feature=related]YouTube - The End? (Part 6 of 6).[/ame]

[Phantom]

To TJ: Well, you kind of answered your own question when you cited the passage that states, 'ALL these things.' Jesus gives a list of many events that will occur throughout this church age. Wars, famine, plagues, etc. In other words, certain things will take place that have taken place since the fall from grace. However, He specifically warns there will be one generation that will witness 'All these things.'

 

Knowledge increasing (we live in what is known as 'the information age'), Israel will be reborn (some believe this is the fig tree prophecy as Israel is frequently referred to as the fig tree in the Bible- when the fig tree blossoms- this will be the sign of all signs that the fig tree is blooming and summer is near), Babylon will be rebuilt (for centuries prophecy scholars believed this had to be metaphorical but thanks to Saddam and not the UN, here comes the historical Babylon being rebuilt), travel will increase (this is obvious), people all over the world will be able to witness certain events (never before has this been possible prior to satellite), the Muslim collation led by Russia will be formed against Israel (this was fulfilled with the countries aligning by name as prophesied), etc., etc. There are hundreds.

 

This is the generation where all things are being fulfilled simultaneously.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that we will not know the day or the hour- only the season. The season that is described in detail more than any other time in the Bible.

[Phantom]

So if the Myans were right and nothing in the Bible can be backwards linked to 12/21/2012 then that disproves Bible Prophecy?

 

2012 was simply the end of their 'long count.' Then the series starts over. As I am sure you know, their calender was cyclical- not linear like ours is. It simply starts over into the new cycle. Yes, I've read about the Chinese significance of 2012 as well. There is also something else but I can't remember the name of it. It was a computer program in America that specified 2012 as an extreme change of life as we know it.

 

But no, I do not think that disproves Biblical prophecy because there is nothing in the Bible that targets the year 2012, or the year 5773 in the Hebrew calender. Biblical prophecy is falsifiable but the way to falsify it is for the events to not be fulfilled. However, this simply isn't what is happening. In fact, it's the exact opposite!

[ImWithStupid]

2012 was simply the end of their 'long count.' Then the series starts over. As I am sure you know, their calender was cyclical- not linear like ours is. It simply starts over into the new cycle. Yes, I've read about the Chinese significance of 2012 as well. There is also something else but I can't remember the name of it. It was a computer program in America that specified 2012 as an extreme change of life as we know it.

 

But no, I do not think that disproves Biblical prophecy because there is nothing in the Bible that targets the year 2012, or the year 5773 in the Hebrew calender. Biblical prophecy is falsifiable but the way to falsify it is for the events to not be fulfilled. However, this simply isn't what is happening. In fact, it's the exact opposite!

 

Just like Nostrodamus, applying prophecy to past events is easy. All you have to do is manipulate obscure references to mean whatever you want.

[Phantom]

Just like Nostrodamus, applying prophecy to past events is easy. All you have to do is manipulate obscure references to mean whatever you want.

 

lol But it is so much more than that so it is impossible for that objection to stand.

 

Babylon, Israel, the European Union, etc., were held by some prophecy scholars as literal for centuries but they were scoffed at by the world and even allegorist prophecy scholars and preterists. Even Hal Lindsey in the 70's taught that Russia and China would rise as a military powers. After the Cold War ended, other prophecy scholars labeled him a false teacher and demanded a public apology from him. He refused and told them to just watch- this is what the Bible says will happen and it will happen. Sure enough, here it all comes. Russia and China are rising at an alarming rate. The E.U. was also something that was foreseen.

 

Another example would be prophecy scholars were baffled for years how on earth 'the entire world' could witness the death of the two witnesses in Jerusalem. With satellite and television, this is now possible for the first time in history. Then prophecy scholars warned of a conflict between Iran, Syria, and Israel. This seem inevitable to us today but all of this was warned of prior to Israel's rebirth of 1948.

 

Etc. ad nauseum. The prophecies were known and we know what to look for. The next thing we have our eyes on is the conflict between Israel, Russia, and the Muslim coalition. Not far fetched now but we've been waiting for decades.

 

You're objections are very understandable, not to mention common. In these types of discussions, the general objections always comes down to:

 

1). The prophecies were self-fulfilled.

2). The prophecies were written after the fact (pretty hard to believe considering even the newest books of the Bible are almost 2,000 years old lol).

3). The prophecies are so vague, they are fulfilled in hindsight.

 

However when a person studies, and I mean truly studies, the objections will become more and more absurd to that person. It's pretty fascinating.

[ImWithStupid]

lol But it is so much more than that so it is impossible for that objection to stand.

 

Babylon, Israel, the European Union, etc., were held by some prophecy scholars as literal for centuries but they were scoffed at by the world and even allegorist prophecy scholars and preterists. Even Hal Lindsey in the 70's taught that Russia and China would rise as a military powers. After the Cold War ended, other prophecy scholars labeled him a false teacher and demanded a public apology from him. He refused and told them to just watch- this is what the Bible says will happen and it will happen. Sure enough, here it all comes. Russia and China are rising at an alarming rate. The E.U. was also something that was foreseen.

 

Another example would be prophecy scholars were baffled for years how on earth 'the entire world' could witness the death of the two witnesses in Jerusalem. With satellite and television, this is now possible for the first time in history. Then prophecy scholars warned of a conflict between Iran, Syria, and Israel. This seem inevitable to us today but all of this was warned of prior to Israel's rebirth of 1948.

 

Etc. ad nauseum. The prophecies were known and we know what to look for. The next thing we have our eyes on is the conflict between Israel, Russia, and the Muslim coalition. Not far fetched now but we've been waiting for decades.

 

You're objections are very understandable, not to mention common. In these types of discussions, the general objections always comes down to:

 

1). The prophecies were self-fulfilled.

2). The prophecies were written after the fact (pretty hard to believe considering even the newest books of the Bible are almost 2,000 years old lol).

3). The prophecies are so vague, they are fulfilled in hindsight.

 

However when a person studies, and I mean truly studies, the objections will become more and more absurd to that person. It's pretty fascinating.

 

Yet, until something happens, only generalizations can be fortold. The Russia, Iran thing is an easy blend, they were of the known world at the time. Why no mention of the Far East, South America or even North America specific. Specifices are always in hindsight. Provide me with one, just one "specific" time, date, incident, that is fortold in Bible prophecy.

[timesjoke]

 

This is the generation where all things are being fulfilled simultaneously.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that we will not know the day or the hour- only the season. The season that is described in detail more than any other time in the Bible.

 

 

And going back to my earlier point that far from all people have exposure to a 'Christian' religion, this is why I believe almost all Religions are based on the same God and that God has other plans for these groups than the group he offered his son to. God clearly had the power to place examples of Jesus all over the world at the same time if he wanted that. Why only one small representation in one tiny location?

[eddo]

Real Christians aren't liars and hypocrites ~ wez

 

That is an excellent ideal, but very wrong.

 

Those that follow Christ (Christians) don't become perfect because they follow Christ. They still live in a fallen world. They still struggle with sin. They still struggle with issues in their lives, just like non-Christians do.

 

The difference is that us real Christians have a God that they know loves them, even though they screw up. They have a God that is willing toforgive, forget and help them move on.

 

This thought that "Real Christians aren't liars and hypocrites" is why many don't trust church, and why Religion is so wrong.

 

People go to church, see churchgoers in church, and then see those same churchgoers out in the world messing up. "Oh no, that church can't be real! It's got sinners in it!" Do people avoid hospitals because sick people are there? No, they go there to get better. The church is much the same way. It isn't for perfect people, it's for people trying to "get better."

 

Religion (capital R) says that it's followers must be perfect. It's leaders must be flawless. This has everyone more concerned about everyone else's issues rather than their own. When someone falls, it casts a horrible light on everything- because perfection has been preached and expected.

 

But God knows that because of our free will, we will make stupid decisions, and He made a way for us to be cleansed from our screwups. But this hardly means that we won't still struggle, or at times fail.

 

Real Christians realize they are sinners, and choose to allow God to forgive them- and help them move forward. Perfection is an admirable goal (and one all Christians should be striving for, since Jesus was perfect) but understanding that none of us are there yet is very important.

[timesjoke]

Great post eddo.

 

Clearly those with faith are not suddenly tranc\sformed into something other then human. Those who follow faith are basically exactly the same as everyone else, but we decide to aspire to do better, to knowingly admit where we are flawed and to try and not make the same mistakes over and over. We have a guideline for our behavoir even if we don't always meet that goal every day.

[Phantom]

Why no mention of the Far East

 

There is. In Revelation: the 'Kings of the East' and the 200 million man army. The Eastern coalition is now capable of such a number in its military.

 

South America or even North America specific.

 

Some believe the reference to 'coast lands' is referring to the Americas because the word used in the original Greek implies distant, isolated lands. Others, including myself, believe America will not be a prominent player in end times events. This could be due to the rapture taking away the majority Christian population of the Americas, leaving the countries unable to function properly as a world leader as we now stand or due to something far more violent like a nuclear attack. As it stands, America is already on shaky ground.

 

Others believe America is one of the 'ten kings.' If you would like to see it, let me know and I will hunt it down for you. The U.N. has actually divided the world into ten territories with North America being one of them.

 

Specifices are always in hindsight. Provide me with one, just one "specific" time, date, incident, that is fortold in Bible prophecy.

 

I did. Both videos in the O.P. discuss specific timelines. Then of course once we are in the tribulation, we have another specific timeline to go by. We have 3 1/2 years, then 3 1/2 years then 30 days then 45 days.

[Phantom]

And going back to my earlier point that far from all people have exposure to a 'Christian' religion, this is why I believe almost all Religions are based on the same God and that God has other plans for these groups than the group he offered his son to. God clearly had the power to place examples of Jesus all over the world at the same time if he wanted that. Why only one small representation in one tiny location?

 

Let me ask you this: If all roads point to the same God, what was the purpose of Jesus having to be crucified? Remember His plea in the garden immediately before His arrest- Is there any other way?

[eddo]

Let me ask you this: If all roads point to the same God, what was the purpose of Jesus having to be crucified? Remember His plea in the garden immediately before His arrest- Is there any other way?

 

My thoughts on that:

 

Jehova, God, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, etc- were all originally the same deity- if in nothing else than in mans desire to know his Creator. Man, somewhere along the way, decided that the way Joe Schmoe down the street was worshiping was wrong, so he changed it. Over and over and over. Now, I don't believe they are all correct pathways to that one God, but I do believe that the different religions are all trying to get to that one true God. Man screwed up the way to God, and in turn made things a whole lot harder than they need to be.

 

 

Some like to use different belief structures that have common beliefs as an example of faiths stealing form one another (for example, more than just Christianity/Judaism have stories of great floods, virgin births, and others.) To me, this points, not to a discrepancy in belief structure, but a branching off somewhere along the way. and to me, it adds credibility to the faith I hold to.