blessed be..

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xNEtq-CifnQ&feature=related]YouTube - Samhain - Blessed Be[/ame]

[phreakwars]

I watched a very interesting program on the History Channel (Or maybe it was National Geographic) that talked about the history of Halloween. And how the Christians stole it from the Pagan's just like they did Christmas.

 

But anyways, the main reason they adapted some of these ideas is because of the Celtics and the push to get them converted..

 

I say it's interesting when people talk about how influential Christianity is, when in fact, Christianity has gotten it's influences over the years, from other cultures.

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[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I watched a very interesting program on the History Channel (Or maybe it was National Geographic) that talked about the history of Halloween. And how the Christians stole it from the Pagan's just like they did Christmas.

 

But anyways, the main reason they adapted some of these ideas is because of the Celtics and the push to get them converted..

 

I say it's interesting when people talk about how influential Christianity is, when in fact, Christianity has gotten it's influences over the years, from other cultures.

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I agree, the clues are just there to be seen.

 

Christians admit they dont know the birthday of JC. They dropped it close to the winter solstice 21 Dec to obscure the pagan event as they tried to advance their own.

 

They did the same with Samhein another pagan event, by placing All Hallows Eve- Halloween upon it.

 

They did the same with Beltane, a Pagan celebration of the return of the summer, by placing their dead but alive again hero on this date also- Easter. Eostre is the Celtic Goddess of the returning summer- or something like it, I'm not sure.

 

They built some of their churches inside sacred stone circles in Britain, then presumably, stood around tutting when Pagans turned up for a celebration.

 

The number 3 is also a good example of how the latter religions take ideas from those who went before. Christians idea is that their is a 3ness to their god. But just consider Celtic art. You will sometimes see a 3 headed God, and 3 headed imagery. Also consider the sign of Odin- 3 interlocked bull horns. This in turn probably came from a bull worshiping cult in ancient times before gods were of human form.

 

Its fascinating how things change and evolve over time.

 

Originally, this time of year for Northern Europeans, was a time when our elderly and weak died from the cold. It was also a time when domestic livestock was killed, as the grass and other crops were no longer available. This time became associated with death. Halloween is now a fun thing. I dont suppose that was the case then. More likely a time to commune with the dead.

 

As time wore on Christians became more successful, and hence bolder. This culminated in the savagery of the witch torture and murders, that claimed many lives in Medieval Europe.

 

Enjoy the festivities Bender !

 

[attach=full]2118[/attach]

 

Lugh, a three faced Celtic God able to devine past present and future

 

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Sign of Odin- 3 interlocked drinking horns

[RoyalOrleans]

They did the same with Beltane, a Pagan celebration of the return of the summer, by placing their dead but alive again hero on this date also- Easter. Eostre is the Celtic Goddess of the returning summer- or something like it, I'm not sure.

 

Eostre (Easter) was celebrated by the Anglo-Saxons.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Eostre (Easter) was celebrated by the Anglo-Saxons.

 

I'm sure they did too. The Angles, Saxons, and Celts all came from Deutschland, and probably had similar cultures. But the Angles,Saxons and Jutes I think all spoke an early Deutsche, what we call Middle English.

 

The Celts spoke a different tongue. In the British Isles it is differentiated into Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Cornish, all of which surprisingly survive. The later are what were called in ancient times-the West Welsh.

 

Borra Da !

[RoyalOrleans]

I'm sure they did too. The Angles, Saxons, and Celts all came from Deutschland, and probably had similar cultures. But the Angles,Saxons and Jutes I think all spoke an early Deutsche, what we call Middle English.

 

I believe Middle English had more "Norman" influences than Deutshe. You are right, the Angles and Saxons spoke a similar language (a proto-MiddenDeutsche if you will) and it is classified as "Old English" and is a North Germanic language strongly associated with "Old Frisian".

 

The language of the Jutes, Jutlandic, can be traced back to Northern Germanic roots, but is directly branched from Danish.

 

The Celts spoke a different tongue. In the British Isles it is differentiated into Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Cornish, all of which surprisingly survive. The later are what were called in ancient times-the West Welsh.

 

Borra Da !

 

No, it is differentiated into two language divisions, which are Goidelic and Brythonic. Then the language divisions are split into several dialects; Goidelic: Irish, Scottish Gaelic, and Manx. Brythonic contains Welsh, Breton, Cornish, Cumbric, Ivernic (hypothetically), and possibly Pictish (not wholly confirmed.).

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

I believe Middle English had more "Norman" influences than Deutshe. You are right, the Angles and Saxons spoke a similar language (a proto-MiddenDeutsche if you will) and it is classified as "Old English" and is a North Germanic language strongly associated with "Old Frisian"..).

 

Its nice to get to chat with someone interested in this old stuff. The people we call the Normans, were Vikings who settled in Normandy [France] from 700-800 AD I think.

 

They were not just raiding and settling in England in those days. They settled in Russia, Iceland, Greenland,France etc. There is some evidence the Vikings settled in the USA for a while ! They called it Vinland.

 

You are right about the Norman language influence. Some of their words and place names are still with us today. In most of England today, a small water source is called a stream. In The Lake District and Yorkshire, they call it a beck. This is a Viking word. There are other examples.

 

Our place names also give some idea of who originally built them. Places ending with [ton] are Anglo Saxon. eg-Bolton, Warrington.

 

Place names ending with thwaite, by, and thorpe are Viking place names eg Bassingthwaite, S horpe, Formby, Crosby,Whitby.

 

The language of the Jutes, Jutlandic, can be traced back to Northern Germanic roots, but is directly branched from Danish..).

 

I knew that The Jutes came from the Denmark area. The Germans call them Auslanders- They consider them German but from the fringes of Germany.

 

 

No, it is differentiated into two language divisions, which are Goidelic and Brythonic. Then the language divisions are split into several dialects; Goidelic: Irish, Scottish Gaelic, and Manx. Brythonic contains Welsh, Breton, Cornish, Cumbric, Ivernic (hypothetically), and possibly Pictish (not wholly confirmed.).

 

I have heard these words before, but you are much more interested and knowledgeable in the subject.

 

An hours drive away is North Wales, where they still speak Welsh. Here is some for you :

 

Borra Da = good day

Shameye = hello

De och anne vower = thank you

Discleda day = tea please

[snafu]

YouTube - Samhain - Blessed Be

 

Your weird. Now I'm really freaked out with Halloween!

I'm blaming you from now on!

 

 

I have never felt comfortable with Halloween. Sure I got dressed up with my Superman suit (they had them back then!) or Cowboy suit and took my pillow sheet out to collect the the candy. We would fill that pillow sheet at least half full, but I've never ever gotten Halloween.

It was always a tribute to the dark side of people as far as I'm concerened and I don't like dying or the dark side!

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Your weird.

 

I've been told this before Snaf !

 

 

but I've never ever gotten Halloween.

 

Any celebration/entertainment was important then Snaf. They had no TV/radio/internet, and hardly anyone could read.

 

It was a time associated with death. They killed off livestock which was not necessary for breeding the following year. They would not spare the fodder.

 

Also, it gets cold at this time here. Their elderly were vulnerable to hypothermia then, also those who did not have enough stored fuel or food.

 

They tried to commune with the dead at this time I've read.

 

Also I once saw something that had once been under the sea hidden. It was a timber structure in a large circle. It had, say, a foot wide upright section followed by a footwide gap. This was repeated all about the circle.

 

They think it had ceremonial value.

 

From inside the circle, the viewer gets interupted views of others without the circle as they are obscured by the uprights, and then are seen as they appear in the timber free parts.

 

I can see how it might have had some ceremonial value to those who believed in an afterlife.

 

Here is a piccie of it:

 

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The thing in the middle is whats left of a tree which was placed upside down in the middle of the circle. I'm guessing that this symbolises death, as we somtimes see inverted torches in graveyard imagery today.

 

If inerested in this , search for :seahenge+holm