Patriotism

[wez]

You are mom?

 

Huh?

 

Your a dumbass.

[RoyalOrleans]

Your a dumbass.

 

English, muthafukka! DO YOU SPEAK IT???

[wez]

English, muthafukka! DO YOU SPEAK IT???

 

You're mom didn't speak English.

[RoyalOrleans]

You're mom didn't speak English.

 

She doesn't say too much these days, mother has been dead for seven years now.

 

Cervical cancer.

[wez]

She doesn't say too much these days, mother has been dead for seven years now.

 

Cervical cancer.

 

 

Some nasty stuff..

 

 

Sorry to hear it. Way too young to lose a mum..

[RoyalOrleans]

Some nasty stuff..

 

 

Sorry to hear it. Way too young to lose a mum..

 

I'm 38 and my oldest brother is 54.

[wez]

I'm 38 and my oldest brother is 54.

 

 

Wow.. pretty cool. Good span. He the oldest, you the youngest?

[RoyalOrleans]

Wow.. pretty cool. Good span. He the oldest, you the youngest?

 

Writing a fukken book or something?

[wez]

Writing a fukken book or something?

 

Would I need to be to ask that question?

[RoyalOrleans]

Would I need to be to ask that question?

 

Absolutely.

[wez]

Absolutely.

 

What would you like the title to be, sir?

[RoyalOrleans]

What would you like the title to be, sir?

 

How I Porked Your Mother.

[wez]

How I Porked Your Mother.

 

 

Your mom wouldn't want that to be the title.

[snafu]

The fact that Chomsky and other delusional people think they can convert the world is absurd. While everybody's sitting around in a circle singing and holding hands, some of them are just mouthing the words.

I'm a realist and I see the evil out there that cannot be stopped by pipe dreams. You can call it war mongering but I see it as survival.

[snafu]

.

Edited April 2, 2016 by rem

[wez]

Hey eddo, don't ya think that definition would be correct since Jesus was punished for others guilt when completely innocent of any wrongdoing by the very people he pointed it out to? Everyone elses guilt/"sin"but his own, as a matter of fact. According to your beliefs anyways.. Right?

 

 

 

What'd ya think?

[wez]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^.. Eddo?

[wez]

Helloooooo... edwardo?

[Guest eisanbt]

The fact that Chomsky and other delusional people think they can convert the world is absurd. While everybody's sitting around in a circle singing and holding hands, some of them are just mouthing the words.

I'm a realist and I see the evil out there that cannot be stopped by pipe dreams. You can call it war mongering but I see it as survival.

 

 

Agreed that converting the world is absurd, but again with the holding hands sillyness, does the below look like a flower hippy revolution? You must be so sheltered from radicals, as you seem to be quite ignorant on these ideas and their implications (by which I mean no offense, I choose ignorant and not stupid).

 

.

 

As for the rest of it, I dunno what to say. I seems redundant to bounce media sources off one another as none of us will accept the other's presentation of the 'facts'. History is not my strong point, nor is economics so I shan't try to battle in those fields.

 

Why am I inclined to believe the anti-state/ anti-capitalist media over conventional sources? My personal experience has shown me time and again corruption, abuse and violent coercion perpetuated by my government (police, mono-culture farming etc...). The stories then come in, worse then those we ever hear about our own, about the attrocities committed by others around the world. But I was always told "It's only them, WE are the good ones, we don't do those things, we have no part in genocide...". But as the first hand reports trickle in, its hard to stay convinced that the 'bad guys' are so far removed.

Who are these bad guys then? The folks on top of the pile, The Inner Party as it were, upper class, rich, whichever title rings truest with you. These are Friedmans selfish jerks. Those who want power/money, and thus fight tooth and nail for it, and so they get it. Capitalism and our Plutocracy's set up a race where only the worst of us want to run; naturally they end up on top of the podium. But with these few evil folk so obviously in control history has shown that the large numbers under their feet eventually rise up to topple them.

 

"It is this class division of society which gives rise to the state - because the minority need a special force to maintain their rule over the majority - which has evolved over thousands of years into the complicated structures we see today."

 

Capitalist society creates a caste system very similar to Ingsoc of 1984 (just trying to stick to common examples again); Inner Party (rich), Outer Party (middle class), Proles (poor). As in Ingsoc, we've created through capitalism, a system which maintains its self by adopting or eliminating those who pose a threat to this established social order. Middle becomes too capable, they are adopted into upper or they're crushed through state mechanisms. Likewise with the proles. We see the greatest zealotry up top, and the most social control in the middle. Social control takes many forms, most being much more effective then a simple gun totting goon (but lets not forget the one and only 'legitimate' purveyors of forces: the pigs). The middle is most essential for the function of the system, the top maintains itself indefinitely and the bottom requires little attention as living conditions become a sort of free range prison of mind and body. Even with the adoption of a functional middle, something not so characteristic of out-dated systems of old, those on bottom (particulary in a global) far out number those key figures 'above' them.

 

Its 5am, I'll carry on with more pretentious BS later.

 

Zeep

[wez]

Isn't it common knowledge that might = right and fear = respect and we have no choice but to accept it, or else?

[ImWithStupid]

Capitalist society creates a caste system very similar to Ingsoc of 1984 (just trying to stick to common examples again); Inner Party (rich), Outer Party (middle class), Proles (poor). As in Ingsoc, we've created through capitalism, a system which maintains its self by adopting or eliminating those who pose a threat to this established social order. Middle becomes too capable, they are adopted into upper or they're crushed through state mechanisms. Likewise with the proles. We see the greatest zealotry up top, and the most social control in the middle. Social control takes many forms, most being much more effective then a simple gun totting goon (but lets not forget the one and only 'legitimate' purveyors of forces: the pigs). The middle is most essential for the function of the system, the top maintains itself indefinitely and the bottom requires little attention as living conditions become a sort of free range prison of mind and body. Even with the adoption of a functional middle, something not so characteristic of out-dated systems of old, those on bottom (particulary in a global) far out number those key figures 'above' them.

 

I'm not sure you get 1984. It's a call out against what happens in a communist society not a capitalist society. I disagree whole heartedly with you about your assessment. Capitalism is the only system that allows one to succeed and advance themselves through hard work and determination. What you are describing is what happens in communist society. I've studied communism and had travelled to the USSR before the collapse.

 

In communism you have your three easily defined classes. The Inner Party are members of the central elite in power and control of the state. The Outer Party would be those with valuable knowledge to those in the Inner Party like engineers, scientist, doctors and such. The Proles would be the rest of the population who are mere labor.

[RoyalOrleans]

Isn't it common knowledge that might = right and fear = respect and we have no choice but to accept it, or else?

 

Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drawn her depression?

 

That's a fine way to go through life; fearing the bully and never making a stand. By your rationale, you'd let the bully wail on you until he tires out or loses interest.

 

Give into your base human desires. Crack his skull. He deserves it.

 

What does this have to do with "patriotism"? Everything and nothing at all.

[hugo]

Socialist "libertarianism' is simply a new name the Marxists picked out due to the fact the ideas of Marx have been a bit tainted by the actions of those who have come to power through the appeal to Marxist ideology. Like the socialists, who in the US stole the word liberal, due to the disdain for the word socialism in the US, the Marxists changed their name. Under any name it is quite impossible for the state to wither away when the proponents of Marxism favor every damn extension of government they can imagine. Power, once obtained, is seldom given up willfully. It irritates me as a libertarian, from the classical liberal tradition, to see the term libertarian associated with Marxism.

 

Life is unfair. Government simply adds another level of unfairness to the equation. Our founding fathers recognized this. They risked their very lives to free themselves from a government much less oppressive than the one we have today. They crafted a constitution that was meant to limit the power of the federal government. It was meant to keep the federal government from picking out the winners and losers. Government is needed; it is needed to channel individual self-interest (greed) to keep third parties from being harmed by the actions of two consenting parties. Even governments with limited power will abuse their powers.

 

Capitalism is what naturally exists in the absence of government. Socialism, beyond small groups of either related or like-minded individuals, requires the presence of government. Communes have a very low success rate....why is that?

 

What the history of the last century has shown is that capitalism and freedom are positively correlated and that states that have tried the Marxist route have universally failed. There will always be need for government; let us keep it limited.

 

A couple quotes:

 

Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell.

-- Karl Popper

 

To be ignorant of the past is to remain a child.

-- Karl Popper

 

We have seen what Marxist ideology has produced...a hell. I am no child.

[wez]

Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drawn her depression?

 

That's a fine way to go through life; fearing the bully and never making a stand. By your rationale, you'd let the bully wail on you until he tires out or loses interest.

 

Give into your base human desires. Crack his skull. He deserves it.

 

What does this have to do with "patriotism"? Everything and nothing at all.

 

 

Sarcasm must escape you....

 

 

As well as who the bully may be.. a bully rarely sees him/herself as such.. I told ya, I'm a tough guy tenderizer..

[wez]

What does it have to do with Patriotism?

 

 

"Patriots"are patriotic to bullies all to often rather than patriotic to the truth.. much like yourself.

 

 

Odd thing about the nature of bullies.. they think the people standing up to them are the bullies and use it as justification to continue..

 

 

Another odd thing about bullies.. truth in words and a cracked ego is far more devastating to them than a cracked skull.