Patriotism

[ImWithStupid]

Socialist "libertarianism' is simply a new name the Marxists picked out due to the fact the ideas of Marx have been a bit tainted by the actions of those who have come to power through the appeal to Marxist ideology. Like the socialists, who in the US stole the word liberal, due to the disdain for the word socialism in the US

 

And now that "liberal" has a negative feel to it, the socialists are calling themselves, "Progressives".

[hugo]

And now that "liberal" has a negative feel to it, the socialists are calling themselves, "Progressives".

 

smells the same no matter what you call it.

[RoyalOrleans]

What does it have to do with Patriotism?

 

 

"Patriots"are patriotic to bullies all to often rather than patriotic to the truth.. much like yourself.

 

 

Odd thing about the nature of bullies.. they think the people standing up to them are the bullies and use it as justification to continue..

 

 

Another odd thing about bullies.. truth in words and a cracked ego is far more devastating to them than a cracked skull.

 

Gabriel's trumpet will produce you from the ass of a pig.

[wez]

Gabriel's trumpet will produce you from the ass of a pig.

 

 

Do you command this Gabriel fellow to please you as well, or else?

[RoyalOrleans]

Do you command this Gabriel fellow to please you as well, or else?

 

Wez, please. As we?ll be more often in each other?s company on this site, when given to utterance of that type ? consider drinking.

[wez]

Wez, please. As we’ll be more often in each other’s company on this site, when given to utterance of that type — consider drinking.

 

I should please you because, why?

 

Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drown her depression?

 

 

Shall I utter more utterances of that type then play stupid?

 

 

hahahahaha

[jokersarewild]

SUPPORT THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF UPDATE

 

FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO YOUR FRIENDS

AND FAMILY, URGING THEM TO SUPPORT OUR

PRESIDENT AND THE TROOPS BY CLICKING HERE:

 

GrassFire.org - Real Impact Online.

 

3/31/03

 

Dear Charles,

 

We just received a message from a U.S. Marine that was so

compelling, we had to share it with you.

 

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

 

I sat in a movie theatre watching "Schindler's List,"

and asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

 

I sat in a movie theatre watching "Pearl Harbor," and

asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

 

Now I know why.

 

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the

actions of evil people.

 

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered

because too many Americans naively rejected the reality that

some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others.

 

Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want

us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the

bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the

killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of

the perpetrators...

 

I will not be manipulated. I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

 

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the

press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

 

I will not forget that CBS news anchor Dan Rather preceded

President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark,

"No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

 

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if

reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war,

they aren't likely--nor should they be expected--to show

deference."

 

I will not forget the attack on the USS Cole...

 

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory

strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

 

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations

like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?"

question at the airport.

 

I will not be influenced by so called, "anti-war demonstrators"

who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American

obscenities.

 

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North

Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and

spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors

and marines.

 

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists

who chose reassurance over reality.

 

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair

who told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral

inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could

have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they

would have done so and rejoiced in it?

 

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting

of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just

a choice; defeat it or be defeated. And defeat it we must!"

 

I will force myself to:

hear the weeping.

feel the helplessness.

sense the panic.

experience the loss.

remember the hatred.

 

I sat in a movie theatre, watching "Saving Private Ryan," and

asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

 

Now I know.

 

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

 

--Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)

 

+ + + + + + + + + + +

 

Charles, we hope these words spoke to your heart like

they did ours.

 

 

God Bless America.

 

This is possibly the most misguided attempt at propaganda I've seen in my life.

 

Why didn't the Jews fight back? Are these people seriously comparing the "War in Iraq" to the Jewish Genocide of WW2? There's like, you know, nothing in common or anything. But yeah, they're totally like, the same thing.

 

And Pearl Harbor? I have to laugh. The audacity that you'd blame "civilized people" for not being prepared is utterly unfathomable. It's not like the PRESIDENT knew about it beforehand or anything, and just dismissed it...

 

And if this guy is so knowledgeable and less naive then the rest of us, why didn't he stop it? Fact is, we were due for an attack from somebody. Isolationism can't work forever.

 

The rest is just anti-liberal, anti-peace bull. It must be nice to generalize the world into a black-and-white view that allows for cultivation of such an assinine and pervasive ignorance.

[wez]

 

It must be nice to generalize the world into a black-and-white view that allows for cultivation of such an assinine and pervasive ignorance.

 

 

 

We're good, they're bad.

 

 

Americans naively rejected the reality that

some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others.

 

 

 

Hahahahaha... hypocrisy at it's finest.

[RoyalOrleans]

I should please you because, why?

 

Was your daddy too liberal with the lash? Did you fear the sound of his car pulling into the driveway? Did Uncle Roy have something for your in the pocket of his sansabelt slacks? Did you mother turn to the bottle to drown her depression?

 

 

Shall I utter more utterances of that type then play stupid?

 

 

hahahahaha

 

I'd just assume attempt to touch the sun than take on a whore's thinking.

[wez]

I'd just assume attempt to touch the sun than take on a whore's thinking.

 

I didn't whore myself out to the federal government and have them strip me of my individuality, tell me what to think through anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy then hand me a gun and tell me who to kill, or else.

 

 

I'd of chose or else.. like I always do.

[RoyalOrleans]

I didn't whore myself out to the federal government and have them strip me of my individuality, tell me what to think through anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy then hand me a gun and tell me who to kill, or else.

 

I'd of chose or else.. like I always do.

 

Never opine short of certainty.

[wez]

Never opine short of certainty.

 

 

I'm quite certain... I am neither shocked, nor awed by anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy, only disgusted.

[RoyalOrleans]

I'm quite certain... I am neither shocked, nor awed by anger, intimidation, and hypocrisy, only disgusted.

 

You are less majestically neutral than cloaking your cowardice in principle?

[wez]

You are less majestically neutral than cloaking your cowardice in principle?

 

I'm all about what is ok for me to do to another human being is ok for every other human being to do to me.

 

 

Only cowards and hypocrites need violence.

[Guest eisanbt]

Socialist "libertarianism' is simply a new name the Marxists picked out due to the fact the ideas of Marx have been a bit tainted by the actions of those who have come to power through the appeal to Marxist ideology. Like the socialists, who in the US stole the word liberal, due to the disdain for the word socialism in the US, the Marxists changed their name. Under any name it is quite impossible for the state to wither away when the proponents of Marxism favor every damn extension of government they can imagine. Power, once obtained, is seldom given up willfully. It irritates me as a libertarian, from the classical liberal tradition, to see the term libertarian associated with Marxism.

 

 

Agreed; Commies want big government. Their idea of it eventually falling from the hands of the 'party' into that of the people is silly, assholes always grab the reigns of power. I am not advocating communism. Folks around here seems so stuck in this "Yous either a pinko or a FREEDOM loving capitalist" state of mind. History has shown the hell of Friedman's version of the world quite aptly in Chilie, as the USSR showed the inevitable abuse of a communist state.

 

"As Nixon put it in his ineffable style, "It's that son of a bitch Allende. We're going to smash him." As early as October of 1970, the CIA had warned of possible consequences: "you have asked us to provoke chaos in Chile. ... We provide you with a formula for chaos which is unlikely to be bloodless. To dissimulate the U.S. involvement will be clearly impossible." The Pinochet dictatorship lasted 17 long and brutal years." A little help from your friends and you can have a the putty you want. But I suppose that more concern US then Friedman himself, though the economic productivity of Chile during those years doesn't say much for it either (Suppose as compared to the USSR, under constant economic sabotage by both the US and China, Chile faired pretty well).

 

There have been examples of working, small scale societies which did not function on capitalism and their "inherent evil nature' didn't get the better of them. The Mi'Kmaq nations are more real then unicorns, though I suppose we like to pretend they're not there. BUT we saw to it that such ways of life were properly smashed, probably never to rise again.

 

It seems to me these selfish/ destructive tendencies have arisen from those cultures which, by the mouth of a cannon, dominated and assimilated any and all who were otherwise getting by with less destructive/ domination based models (suppose thats Darwin though isn't it). We are now the products of those dominating cultures and pass that taint onto each new generation. We are all responsible, "its just that some are more responsible then others" . The peaceful and complacent majority allowed themselves to be taken over in all ways, and continue to do so. How many people are simply looking to live a happy life with their damn friends and family and be left alone? I'd say its a great majority. Who jeopardizes that simple aspiration? A self serving few without remorse and a knack for manipulation and exploitation. Its not the "Leeches" at the bottom who are the problem, its the jerks laying out the fishing nets for us all to get tangled in ( ty metaphor eh).

 

I don't want to see a state apparatus enforcing a guise of equality and 'freedom', neither communist nor capitalist, I want the simple family folk to realize that in order to ensure that they remain unsuppressed, un-manipulated, and fully empowered to take care of themselves (I can sing for my supper but I dunno how to make it) then they have to kick this to the curb. So long as this global capitalism exists, so long as states maintain their power over us, then this is a dream that will remain unfulfilled.

 

 

 

Oh and IWS-> George Orwell, in a letter to Francis A. Henson of the United Automobile Workers, dated 16 June 1949: "My recent novel [1984] is NOT intended as an attack on Socialism or on the British Labour Party (of which I am a supporter) but as a show-up of the perversions ... which have already been partly realized in Communism and Fascism. ...The scene of the book is laid in Britain in order to emphasize that the English-speaking races are not innately better than anyone else and that totalitarianism, if not fought against, could triumph anywhere." The way I am drawing on this book is to demonstrate the totalitarian side of our society as it resembles that of Orwell's Ingsoc.

[ImWithStupid]

There have been examples of working, small scale societies which did not function on capitalism and their "inherent evil nature' didn't get the better of them. The Mi'Kmaq nations are more real then unicorns, though I suppose we like to pretend they're not there. BUT we saw to it that such ways of life were properly smashed, probably never to rise again.

 

Key word here is small scale. I completely believe that even communism could work on a small scale. It along with the Mi'Kmaq and other native tribes would be a noble goal, they just aren't possible on a large scale.

 

Oh and IWS-> George Orwell, in a letter to Francis A. Henson of the United Automobile Workers, dated 16 June 1949: "My recent novel [1984] is NOT intended as an attack on Socialism or on the British Labour Party (of which I am a supporter) but as a show-up of the perversions ... which have already been partly realized in Communism and Fascism. ...The scene of the book is laid in Britain in order to emphasize that the English-speaking races are not innately better than anyone else and that totalitarianism, if not fought against, could triumph anywhere." The way I am drawing on this book is to demonstrate the totalitarian side of our society as it resembles that of Orwell's Ingsoc.

 

Thanks, but that's what I said.

 

http://Off Topic Forum.com/off-topic-bs/31477-patriotism-13.html#post91870

 

You compared 1984 to capitalism, I said it was about the negativity of communism.

 

Capitalism allows those born in any level to rise to the highest point in society and wealth with hard work and determination, communism doesn't in all but the most rare of occasion and under socialism it's much, much more difficult.

 

On that subject. Check the pattern of events in Russia under Putin's control. They are moving back to the old party rule or be destroyed mentality of the former USSR, that comes out of every attempt at communism.

[hugo]

History has shown the hell of Friedman's version of the world quite aptly in Chilie, as the USSR showed the inevitable abuse of a communist state.

 

 

Really? Pinochet was dictator before Friedman came around. It was not capitalism that destroyed freedom. In fact, it was the policies of the Chicago School of Economics that destroyed tyranny in a mere 17 years while Chile led all Latin nations in GDP growth. Capitalism does not ensure civil liberties, it is a neccesary condition however. If you read Friedman (I suggest you read Capitalism and Freedom or Free to Choose) you will see Friedman stands for maximizing both civil and economic liberty. Pinochet's Chile was not his ideal environmet. It was, proof of his theory that the free market would lead also to greater civil liberties. The world moves slow. Destroying a dictatorship in 17 years was pretty quick on the geo-political scale.

 

Men are greedy. It is part of our nature. Attempts to deny this part of our nature have always resulted inevitably in tyranny as the socialist fools becomes tools of the authorities. The only rational approach is to try to maximize civil and economic liberty while government is relegated to a niche of providing military and police power and certain public works.

 

You may not be a communist, but your ideas fit quite well with Marxist theory. You are another utopian dreaming of a world that can never be and not realizing the horrors that have been perpetrated by such dreamers is inevitable. Not realizing that it takes tyranny to crush mans desire to better himself. Capitalism is like democracy, a flawed system as all systems involving humans are, but the best system given human nature. Man must be governed or there is chaos (Iraq right after Saddam's fall is a good example). That government must be limited or there is tyranny.

 

Friedman on Chile:

 

"I have nothing good to say about the political regime that Pinochet imposed. It was a terrible political regime. The real miracle of Chile is not how well it has done economically; the real miracle of Chile is that a military junta was willing to go against its principles and support a freemarket regime designed by principled believers in a free market. The results were spectacular. Inflation came down sharply. After a transitory period of recession and low output that is unavoidable in the course of reversing a strong inflation, output started to expand, and ever since, the Chilean economy has performed better than any other South American economy."

 

 

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

Winston Churchill

 

The same can be said about capitalism concerning economic systems.

[snafu]

This is possibly the most misguided attempt at propaganda I've seen in my life.

 

Why didn't the Jews fight back? Are these people seriously comparing the "War in Iraq" to the Jewish Genocide of WW2? There's like, you know, nothing in common or anything. But yeah, they're totally like, the same thing.

 

And Pearl Harbor? I have to laugh. The audacity that you'd blame "civilized people" for not being prepared is utterly unfathomable. It's not like the PRESIDENT knew about it beforehand or anything, and just dismissed it...

 

And if this guy is so knowledgeable and less naive then the rest of us, why didn't he stop it? Fact is, we were due for an attack from somebody. Isolationism can't work forever.

 

The rest is just anti-liberal, anti-peace bull. It must be nice to generalize the world into a black-and-white view that allows for cultivation of such an assinine and pervasive ignorance.

 

 

It it propaganda but it was a letter to suport the troops.

It's talking about people who don't think anything can happen to them. It talks about the politcal buricrats that allowed a Navy to sit undefended pretending noththing could happen.

 

We have troops that protect us from harm that people don't see coming. We have troops that protect our freedoms as we speak right now.

[Guest eisanbt]

 

The same can be said about capitalism concerning economic systems.

 

This is a somewhat fair statement, at least so far as large 'economic systems' go. The problem being that such systems simply should not exist, that they exist to maintain a massive social hierarchy, and they are only necessary in support/ maintenance of a civilization of domination. Again, we were dominated long long ago. Time was that everyone didn't have to live with these 'necessary evils', that their interactions were not dependent on such things. We could, conceivably, reclaim such a way of life. I am jaded enough to have most sincere doubts about that actually coming about on a massive scale. But once you realize you're trapped in a web of destruction its hard to go back to blissful participatory ignorance. My dreams of a better life will most likely go unrealized. However giving up is, at this point, is an option only facilitated though suicide. I'm too happy living for that. I will futilely carry on, with that awareness adding only the lightest weight on my life.

[ImWithStupid]

This is a somewhat fair statement, at least so far as large 'economic systems' go. The problem being that such systems simply should not exist, that they exist to maintain a massive social hierarchy, and they are only necessary in support/ maintenance of a civilization of domination. Again, we were dominated long long ago. Time was that everyone didn't have to live with these 'necessary evils', that their interactions were not dependent on such things. We could, conceivably, reclaim such a way of life. I am jaded enough to have most sincere doubts about that actually coming about on a massive scale. But once you realize you're trapped in a web of destruction its hard to go back to blissful participatory ignorance. My dreams of a better life will most likely go unrealized. However giving up is, at this point, is an option only facilitated though suicide. I'm too happy living for that. I will futilely carry on, with that awareness adding only the lightest weight on my life.

 

You show a better system that works on a large scale, and I'll back it. Until then, capitalism is the best system in the history of man. That said, capitalism without risk because the misguided, ignorant, politicians back or guarantee a portion of the market leads to problems. Capitalism on it's own checks itself through risk of failure, but when government backs or guarentees an aspect as they did in mortgages, once risk of failure isn't there, greed takes over, and runs rampant.

[snafu]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWGU3mpfRoM&feature=related]YouTube - Navy Norway[/ame]

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y90UPLLo6nY&feature=related]YouTube - USMC Silent Drill Platoon[/ame]

[snafu]

. Edited April 2, 2016 by rem

[snafu]

The Dread!

 

 

Don't Dare To Face Deadly DREAD Centrifuge-powered Weapon - Weaponsblog

[Old Salt]

. Edited April 2, 2016 by rem