What About ANY kind of Suicide?

[Chi]

Even if you aren't terminal, just wish to end your life for whatever the reason may be.

 

Did assisted suicide group wipe scene clean?

 

Associated Press Writer Greg Bluestein, Associated Press Writer ? 31 mins ago

 

AP ? Jerry Dincin, vice president of Final Exit Network, an alleged assisted suicide ring investigators say ?

 

 

ATLANTA ? Members of Georgia-based assisted suicide ring at the center of a growing investigation went to great lengths to hide evidence of their work, authorities say, donning latex gloves, destroying paperwork and bringing along grocery bags to trash items.

 

The leaders of the assisted suicide ring have never been shy about their mission. The group, known as known as the Final Exit Network, openly advertises its services online and its former president, Ted Goodwin, even pondered in a newspaper interview about possible prosecution before he was arrested last week.

 

Yet the organization managed to avoid prosecution since it started in 2004 in part, Georgia authorities say, because its members adhered to strict guidelines to hide the evidence.

 

The group was compromised by an undercover Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent who inflitrated the network. The investigation led to the arrest of four members, including its medical director, who were charged last week with assisted suicide in the death of 58-year-old John Celmer at his home near Atlanta.

 

The group helps people commit suicide by sending two "exit guides" to show you how to suffocate yourself using helium tanks and a plastic hood. Then, court documents say, the guides are instructed to trash any evidence "to protect the identity of the member and the exit guides."

 

The helium tanks and other equipment should be thrown in a Dumpster ? preferably a commercial one ? and guides should park in a garage, shielded from inquisitive neighbors. And, authorities say, members are routinely asked to destroy paperwork such as training documents.

 

Jerry Dincin, who took over as president after Goodwin's arrest, said Monday that the scene is sometimes cleaned as a favor to members who "do not want their family to think of it as a suicide." He also acknowledged that part of the policy is designed to escape scrutiny.

 

"We've always realized there are prosecutors who would like to come after us. There are plenty of religious prosecutors, people who think this idea is a bad idea," said Dincin. "So we don't drive up and plant a flag on the law saying we're hastening a death."

 

Georgia authorities say the organization may have been involved in as many as 200 other deaths around the country and that the group's painstaking efforts signal it knowingly violated the state's assisted suicide laws.

 

"They were trying to avoid detection to make it look like a natural death," said Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead.

 

The arrests came after an eight-month investigation in which an undercover agent posing as someone bent on suicide infiltrated the group, which bases its work on "The Final Exit," a best-selling suicide manual by British author Derek Humphry.

 

Humphry said Monday he was leading a fundraising campaign for what he called the ultimate "test case" for the right-to-die movement.

 

"We're liberal do-gooders. And we're open and above the board. We're not famous, but we're genuine. And we're law abiding," said Humphry, who lives in Oregon. "Yet we were assailed as if we were criminals."

 

The group's remaining leaders say the charges have had a devastating effect. The group has some $500,000 frozen in state accounts, and can't pay for attorneys ? or even postage, Dincin said.

 

The Final Exit Network's leaders bristle at the term assisted suicide, saying they don't actively aid suicides but rather support and guide those who decide to end their lives on their own.

 

Celma's mother said he had long suffered from throat and mouth cancer, but his doctor told investigators he had made a "remarkable recovery" and was cancer-free at the time of his suicide. Authorities said he may have been embarrassed about his appearance after jaw surgery.

 

"There was no case linked to them in Georgia until Celmer's death," Bankhead said. "Once it was, an undercover agent was able to infiltrate the network and gather evidence."

 

Authorities arrested Goodwin, Dr. Lawrence Egbert, the group's medical director, and members Claire Blehr and Nicholas Alex Sheridan. Along with assisted suicide charges, which carry a 5-year prison sentence, they were also charged with tampering with evidence and racketeering.

 

Goodwin said in a brief interview Monday, "I am innocent."

 

___

 

On the Net:

 

Final Exit Network

 

Final Exit Liberty Fund - Please Contribute Today - finalexitlibertyfund.org - Home

[ImWithStupid]

I only agree with allowing this if I get to decide who wants to commit suicide.

[snafu]

There must be a gazillion ways to kill yourself. Why would you need someone to find just one of those for you? Give me a break.

[Chi]

There must be a gazillion ways to kill yourself. Why would you need someone to find just one of those for you? Give me a break.

 

Well, since they are so into it and organized, they can help you how to do it effectively and as painlessly as possible. Or make it look like you died of natural causes. That way it is less painful on family members and insurance doesn't cover suicides you know. They will even help you clean up afterwards when you aren't able to.

[snafu]

Just find a tall building. If I were to take myself out I would shoot myself but I would go out in the woods so nowbody had to clean up after me.

[Chi]

Just find a tall building. If I were to take myself out I would shoot myself but I would go out in the woods so nowbody had to clean up after me.

 

That Snaf, always so thoughtful... But what about the pain it would cause your family knowing that you did that and no life insurance for them?

[RoyalOrleans]

Yeah...

 

Whatever fate you decide for yourself, then by all means go after it.

 

Once you're dead you're dead!

 

Whether you believe in Heaven or a Hell or hells of purgatory, what you believe in this life you take to the grave.

 

Kill yourself? Why not? Want "Chickensh!t" as an epitaph, be my guest.

[hugo]

Should use nitrous oxide instead of helium.

[emkay64]

It hasn't been my experience that a clean up crew will make suicide easier to handle for anyone that has to deal. Suicide is selfish. However...if you are going to do it...do it with flair...no cliches. Make a creative exit and do it right the first time.

[phreakwars]

I'd probably do it with Heroin. I mean, hell if your gonna kill yourself, might as well make it fun till the very end!!

.

.

[Ahhlee]

My father's father committed suicide.

 

Hottest week of the year, he drove out to a field...rolled up all the windows in the car...and shot himself. They didn't find him for a few days and I guess the discovery was horrendous.

 

My dad was 11 years old. My alcoholic grandfather left a wife and 5 children behind to fend for themselves.

 

Totally fukked up.

[snafu]

My two brothers went over and had to clean up the mess of a friend of ours that shot himself with a rifle. One of my brothers who was the closet to him said he was haunted with the memory of brains, blood and his blond hair they had to clean up.

 

 

Kids.... DON'T DO CRACK!!! I beg you..

[ImWithStupid]

My father's father committed suicide.

 

Hottest week of the year, he drove out to a field...rolled up all the windows in the car...and shot himself. They didn't find him for a few days and I guess the discovery was horrendous.

 

Seen it. It is bad. Found one like that in a field in August. Been there a day and a half.

[Ahhlee]

Seen it. It is bad. Found one like that in a field in August. Been there a day and a half.

 

Yes, it happened in August and I believe he was found 3 days later.

 

So sad for the ones who are left behind. So very sad.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Suicide is the cowards way out. I can't imagine being that selfish. Awful.

[emkay64]

I knew a guy....called his wife and told her to pick up her favorite color paint on the way home from work...said they were going to do the painting project she always wanted. He blew his head off...against the living room wall. Things weren't going well.

 

My uncle shot himself...with his family in the house....the smell never leaves...not decomp...but something else.

 

My brothers best friend shot himself when he was 14. I wonder in that split second before he did it if he ever had a second thought. That family never recovered.

 

Craig's Mom's first boyfriend after her divorce found a quiet place and shot himself...left behind a 10 year old daughter that forever asks herself "if I got a long better with Dad maybe he wouldn't have done it"...and a five year old son.

 

I have more respect for the people that gut it out no matter how difficult.

[Chi]

I knew a guy....called his wife and told her to pick up her favorite color paint on the way home from work...said they were going to do the painting project she always wanted. He blew his head off...against the living room wall. Things weren't going well.

 

My uncle shot himself...with his family in the house....the smell never leaves...not decomp...but something else.

 

My brothers best friend shot himself when he was 14. I wonder in that split second before he did it if he ever had a second thought. That family never recovered.

 

Craig's Mom's first boyfriend after her divorce found a quiet place and shot himself...left behind a 10 year old daughter that forever asks herself "if I got a long better with Dad maybe he wouldn't have done it"...and a five year old son.

 

I have more respect for the people that gut it out no matter how difficult.

 

, they're all pretty bad, but the first one sticks out a little. Talk about morbid sarcasm...

[RegisteredAndEducated]

My father used to own a restaurant. He had a manager named Jamie. He went to his room, with his wife and son in the house, and got his gun ready. He called for his wife, and as soon as the door opened, he shot himself in the head. His son was the person that opened the door, his wife was still down the hall.

 

I hope this guy is being punished for this, wherever he is.

[Ahhlee]

Man, if you're going to do it at least leave a note and tell people WHY. If there's ever a time to finally be truthful and lay your cards on the table, that would be it.

 

The ones who do it right in front of their loved ones...wow. A child should never, EVER have to witness something so horrifying.

 

Em...the story about the guy who called his wife to pick up paint? I still have chills.

[wez]

Never too Late

Three Days Grace

 

 

 

This world will never be

What I expected

And if I don't belong

Who would have guessed it

I will not leave alone

Everything that I own

To make you feel like it's not too late

It's never too late

 

Even if I say

It'll be alright

Still I hear you say

You want to end your life

Now and again we try

To just stay alive

Maybe we'll turn it all around

'Cause it's not too late

It's never too late

 

No one will ever see

This side reflected

And if there's something wrong

Who would have guessed it

And I have left alone

Everything that I own

To make you feel like

It's not too late

It's never too late

 

Even if I say

It'll be alright

Still I hear you say

You want to end your life

Now and again we try

To just stay alive

Maybe we'll turn it all around

'Cause it's not too late

It's never too late

 

The world we knew

Won't come back

The time we've lost

Can't get back

The life we had

Won't be ours again

 

This world will never be

What I expected

And if I don't belong

 

Even if I say

It'll be alright

Still I hear you say

You want to end your life

Now and again we try

To just stay alive

Maybe we'll turn it all around

'Cause it's not too late

It's never too late

Maybe we'll turn it all around

'Cause it's not too late

It's never too late (It's never too late)

It's not too late

It's never too late

 

 

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E04BEmJSaic]YouTube - Three Days Grace- Never Too Late With Lyrics[/ame]

[snafu]

Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be

The pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see . . .

That suicide is painless it brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

 

I try to find a way to make all our little joys relate

Without that ever-present hate but now I know that it?s too late,

 

and . . .That suicide is painless it brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

 

The game of life is hard to play. I?m gonna lose it anyway.

 

The losing card I?ll someday lay so this is all I have to say.

 

That suicide is painless it brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

 

The only way to win is cheat and lay it down before I?m beat,

 

and to another give my seat for that?s the only painless feat.

 

That suicide is painless it brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

 

The sword of time will pierce our skins it doesn?t hurt when it begins

 

But as it works its way on in the pain grows stronger . . . watch it grin, but . . .

That suicide is painless it brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

 

A brave man once requested me to answer questions that are key

'Is it to be or not to be' and I replied 'oh why ask me?'

That suicide is painless it brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

And you can do the same thing if you choose.

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZzrb1IGlqg]YouTube - MASH Movie Theme Song (1970)[/ame]

[ImWithStupid]

Good choice. I was going to post this earlier, but had to run some errands.

[snafu]

You know the thread is called "What About ANY kind of Suicide".

This is the suicide I would detest the most and would be unacceptable.

 

I would be laying in bed waiting to be changed. I got a turd smashed between my butt cheeks. No need for teeth to eat cause they got a feeding tube stuck in my arm. I need to blink my eye or twitch my finger in hopes someone will get the message I want the channel changed to anything but Oprah!

This my friends is the ultimate suicide.

[ImWithStupid]

You know the thread is called "What About ANY kind of Suicide".

This is the suicide I would detest the most and would be unacceptable.

 

I would be laying in bed waiting to be changed. I got a turd smashed between my butt cheeks. No need for teeth to eat cause they got a feeding tube stuck in my arm. I need to blink my eye or twitch my finger in hopes someone will get the message you want the channel changed to anything but Oprah!

This my friends is the ultimate suicide.

 

I'd argue it's the ultimate argument FOR assisted suicide. We have the ability to keep people alive long after their quality of life is horrible. Should we.

 

This goes back to the moral argument of science. Just because we CAN do something, does that mean we should do it.

[snafu]

I'd argue it's the ultimate argument FOR assisted suicide. We have the ability to keep people alive long after their quality of life is horrible. Should we.

 

This goes back to the moral argument of science. Just because we CAN do something, does that mean we should do it.

 

I truly think we should allow life to expire on it's own and I think It's immoral to prolong life without quality.

 

Dr. Kevorkian was a hero.