You're not buying this "competition" horsesh!t are you?

[eddo]

you guys are all wrong. Obama and the Democrats have the only good ideas, and all of our hope rest in them, and only them.

 

Tort reform, private care, canada, GOP- all lies and diversions that Fox news is using to keep you stupid.

 

.

[timesjoke]

Nice post IWS and a great example.

 

If Obama wants to remove the money out of the medical fields, who will want to be a Doctor? Canada has been having massive shortages for doctors for over ten years. They are estimated to be about 10,000 doctors short in their 5 year plan so they have relaxed immigration standards for foreign doctors to come to Canada and take doctor jobs Canadians do not want.

 

 

The same will happen to America, why would anyone go to college and grind out a medical degree just to have a net income of $150,000 after paying out your insurance? Highly educated doctors are to be reduced to lower middle class by the Obama administration?

[RoyalOrleans]

A video so nice, I posted it twice.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh5vzOAEQ-A&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Reporters Grill Gibbs Over Prepackaged Questions for Obama[/ame]

[phreakwars]

Why is it that all of the uninsured folks talking about their astronomical health costs seem to be obese? Of course they are not all obese, but tobacco, alcohol, and food are the top 3 preventable killers.

 

Is it the job of the federal goverment, on the dime of the American taxpayer, to take care of these sloths?

 

I'm sure you'll give me a good answer, Komrade.

And what makes you more special then someone who is out of shape? Why are they unworthy of being cared for and you are/?

.

.

[hugo]

And what makes you more special then someone who is out of shape? Why are they unworthy of being cared for and you are/?

.

.

 

Because some people just need to die.

[ImWithStupid]

And what makes you more special then someone who is out of shape? Why are they unworthy of being cared for and you are/?

.

.

 

 

Welcome to the future of rationed care. If your liver is bad because you drink. No help. If you get lung cancer because you smoke, here's your pain pill. If you get diabetes because you're overweight, good luck.

[phreakwars]

OOOHHH I'm so scared of your Republican lobbyist fueled premonitions... ooooooooooohhhhhhhhh.

 

Another suckass drone to the insurance industry has spoken. Screw that, I side with the people. Not my fault you side with the insurance industry, just like the lobbyist paid your representatives to convince you of.

.

.

[ImWithStupid]

OOOHHH I'm so scared of your Republican lobbyist fueled premonitions... ooooooooooohhhhhhhhh.

 

Another suckass drone to the insurance industry has spoken. Screw that, I side with the people. Not my fault you side with the insurance industry, just like the lobbyist paid your representatives to convince you of.

.

.

 

Whatever. You keep believing that there won't be lobbyists, won't be tax increases, won't be earmarks, whatever other campaign promise that has already been broken and keep believing all the new lies.

 

I prefer to think for myself. Every comment you make sounds like the Daily Kos. I back mine with facts and certified studies based on proven results.

[ImWithStupid]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE]YouTube - Wont Get Fooled Again[/ame]

[phreakwars]

Studies on things that haven't happened are called guesses, not facts.Threats of what the evils of public health care will be are nothing more then the usual right wing fear and paranoia spin machine.

 

Wouldn't know what your talking about with the daily kos. I haven't been to that site since the election.

.

.

[phreakwars]

Besides, if a public government option drives out competition, how come FedEx and UPS do so well? They compete with the feds constatly via USPS.

 

Hows that for "certified studies based on proven results".

 

Everyone says USPS sux, get rid of them, they make no money... well hell... you'd figure they would be driving FedEx and UPS out of business...hmm...

.

.

[ImWithStupid]

Besides, if a public government option drives out competition, how come FedEx and UPS do so well? They compete with the feds constatly via USPS.

 

Hows that for "certified studies based on proven results".

 

Everyone says USPS sux, get rid of them, they make no money... well hell... you'd figure they would be driving FedEx and UPS out of business...hmm...

.

.

 

Hmm, but where else have you ever mailed a letter? You can't because the government mandated a monopoly for letters. What would stop that for health care.

 

When you compete against the government, it's like playing against the other team who happens to be the referee also.

[snafu]

....

You'd be better off going back to school for two years, get a law degree and sue doctors and hospitals for BS reasons hoping for a settlement.

 

Hahaha OK that's funny.

 

Only becuase it's true.

[snafu]

OOOHHH I'm so scared of your Republican lobbyist fueled premonitions... ooooooooooohhhhhhhhh.

 

Another suckass drone to the insurance industry has spoken. Screw that, I side with the people. Not my fault you side with the insurance industry, just like the lobbyist paid your representatives to convince you of.

.

.

 

Ya know I've been sittin here passive reading your rhetoric and back in the day I thought you were just being devils advocate. You know help the borad out becuase to many people that think the same is boring. Shoot me dead if you are really thinking like this.

 

Yeah the insurance companies where gouging us but that's free enterprise. What the would you do if you had none? Oh I know lets let the government take care of your tired ass because, well your ass is tired. Your frame of mind is that you just can't do it anymore right?

[phreakwars]

would you do if you had none?

That's not a question you need ask me, (I have insurance), but rather the MILLIONS of Americans that don't already... ASK THEM what they are doing... then tell me a public plan is worse. At least with a public plan, they will get SOME help.

 

And THAT is why it won't compete with private health care. The expectation that your gonna get superior coverage is brainwashing. I'm more realistic then that. A public plan is only gonna do so much. Probably as much as subsidized care is doing now, and that's the way it should be.

 

That's why we will have a NEED for private coverage, and that is why this competition argument holds no water to me.

 

People will STILL have an option to get the coverage they want, and with a public option as a BOOST of sorts, people will be able to get even MORE coverage at a lower rate to their private insurer then what they do now.

 

That's why I don't believe in that "OUR HEALTH CARE WILL BE RATIONED" malarkey.

 

Like I said before, if we NEVER had a system of insurance for medical care, people STILL need medical care. Now ask.

What would you do if you had none? MEDICAL CARE THAT IS!

What kind of pathetic complaint is it complaining that less people will turn to medicine as a career because the pay might go down...

 

GOOD, I don't want that type of greedy fukker caring for me anyway. I'd rather have someone who went to school to learn to help people, not profit from them.

 

Maybe that's been the problem all along. I call that Capitalism at it's worst.

.

.

[phreakwars]

What's funny is listening to people fear rationed health care, yet in the same breath, these same people wanna ration health care for others who aren't in their class.

 

"WELL THIS PERSON SMOKES, THIS GUYS TOO FAT, THESE GUYS ARE TOO POOR, THIS GUY DOESN'T HAVE A JOB" Therefore THEY don't deserve the same health care YOU get, oh no... if they were included then YOU might have to worry about your care being rationed. Heaven forbid if you have to pay for some of that care... but then.

 

WHAT WOULD YOU DO if you lost your job or became too sick to work and didn't have the money for insurance? Get subsidies? As in let the government help you stay well, and your kids stay well so that you CAN go out and get a job.

 

Like I said before, private providers will STILL have a place in a public insurance system.

 

Ask anybody who is living off subsidized medicine now if THEY can get that heart transplant, or surgery for the knee, and other such things... the answer is HELL NO. And in a public insurance system, it would be the same way. That isn't rationing, it's what you get for your money.

 

Inferior care... sure is, but, for people who don't even qualify for subsidized care, it would be a great alternative. You don't need MAJOR MEDICAL COVERAGE to survive. Just the basics like Dr. visits covered, dentists to pull teeth, not put in gold grillz or work that is made for show like breast implants, crowns, etc...

 

THAT is what people want. But of course Republicans gotta fall for the lobbyist scam getting played on them by the insurance companies and believe that the care proposed is something different. Myself, I don't fall for the scare tactics of the lobbyist that Republicans have so foolishly done only because they wanna play politics.

 

Keep playing politics and bitching about rationed this, and drive out business that. I still side with the people. Not my fault the people majority happen to be Democrats.

.

.

[timesjoke]

What kind of pathetic complaint is it complaining that less people will turn to medicine as a career because the pay might go down...

 

GOOD, I don't want that type of greedy fukker caring for me anyway. I'd rather have someone who went to school to learn to help people, not profit from them.

 

Maybe that's been the problem all along. I call that Capitalism at it's worst.

.

.

 

And I am sure you have never asked for a raise, looked for a better job than the one you have or anything like that Bender........right?

 

You work for 8 bucks an hour and never expect more than that because of your training, dedication or superior skills......right?

 

Well I believe we all know better than that Bender. Your so fast to say Doctors, insurance companies and nurses do not deserve their pay but do you always select the lest expensive person as your doctor? How about your mechanic? Do you use the dirt floor shop outside of town or a reputable shop that costs more?

 

How about computer work? Should people select any idiot that has a sign that says computer repair?

 

Well that is what we will get with this proposal, cut rate doctors who do not have enough on the ball to go find a job that will pay them what their worth.

 

Again, look to Canada, they have a huge shortage of doctors and nurses because the job pays nowhere near what it should considering the hard work these people must do.

 

 

My brother in law is a doctor and he has spent over 12 years in college courses combined with all his follow up schooling he has had to do. Your saying that he does not deserve to earn more than a 150k a year?

[phreakwars]

If they want more money, then all they have to do is learn more skills. Like I said before, public health care will have limits, private care will have a place. And in order for private care to have it's place, we will need skilled pros for more advanced medicine. Dr.'s will STILL make those big bucks. Insurance companies will still be there to pay it out, people will still be there to pay the premiums.

 

If your brother-in-law wants to earn that much, then he should be given a job that pays that based on his skill, not based on how long he went to school and how much he thinks he should be worth.

.

.

[timesjoke]

If they want more money, then all they have to do is learn more skills.

 

What are you talking about? This makes no sense. A doctor is already highly trained and skilled, you want him to be an electrician too or something? Work two jobs because the government looks down on healthcare professionals?

 

 

Like I said before, public health care will have limits, private care will have a place. And in order for private care to have it's place, we will need skilled pros for more advanced medicine. Dr.'s will STILL make those big bucks. Insurance companies will still be there to pay it out, people will still be there to pay the premiums.

 

Again, where does this stuff come from?

 

No, there is not to be any limits for levels of care the Government insurance will support. It is to be a general health insurance plan like any other, just run by the Government so they do not have to make a profit.

 

Do you know how insurance works?

 

They cover a wide range of people and services so some use a lot and some use a little. There is a wide stance of customers with various policies so the insurance company can make a profit.

 

If you completely erase 3/4 of their customer base, there is no way the insurance companies will be able to stay in business with such a tiny segment of the business. They will no longer have lots of policies and people to spread out the costs so anything they will have to offer will be extremely expensive.

 

The same is true for doctors. They stay in business by seeing lots of patients. If you suddenly reduce the amount of money they can collest from the average patient, you will erase the ability to pay their bills and as IWS pointed out, their malpractice insurance will still be very expensive so who in their right mind would want to work so hard to make very little money?

 

 

If your brother-in-law wants to earn that much, then he should be given a job that pays that based on his skill, not based on how long he went to school and how much he thinks he should be worth.

 

Again, what are you talking about? His skills are learned, just like anyone, do you think a mechanic just knows everything instantly?

 

My Brother in law owns his own practice, he is paid by treating people. If you cut all the payouts for treatments in half or less he will no longer be in business. So much for Obama wanting to create jobs, he is even crippling the jobs we have.

[phreakwars]

Then have him perform open heart surgery on you if your so confident with his skills. Can he do that with his 12 year degree?

.

.

[timesjoke]

Then have him perform open heart surgery on you if your so confident with his skills. Can he do that with his 12 year degree?

 

Well he is an orthopedic surgeon and that is very difficult work.

 

While he is not specifically trained in open heart surgery, he would be a better choice over a guy with no medical training.

 

So what is your point?

 

My point is anyone who is a doctor has worked very hard to reach that point where they can be doctors, and your saying they do not deserve to get a better return on their investment in education and training than to make 150k a year?

 

 

I notice you again dodged another point I brought up about the wide stance needed by private insurance companies to stay in business, something you failed to account for?

 

Obviously losing such a massive amount of their customer base will drive them out of business and any doctor who respects himself will not stay in a field where there is no possibility to earn a decent living......just like what is now happening in Canada.......and that shortage of doctors in Canada is another point you refuse to address.......as well as the Canadian suppreme court also admitting that the Canadian system is killing Canadians.......

[ImWithStupid]

Then have him perform open heart surgery on you if your so confident with his skills. Can he do that with his 12 year degree?

.

.

 

 

I'm glad you made TJ's argument for him. There won't be any specialists anymore. You'll have a pediotrist doing heart surgery, or a cardiologist doing the work of of an oncologist.

 

Yea. That sounds great.

[ImWithStupid]

That's not a question you need ask me, (I have insurance), but rather the MILLIONS of Americans that don't already... ASK THEM what they are doing... then tell me a public plan is worse. At least with a public plan, they will get SOME help.

 

.

.

 

This is why I don't understand your stance. I am assuming that your insurance comes from your wives insurance. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

You like what you have right now. Under the current open and obvious plan, you won't have what you currently have now and soon will be forced to have something different.

 

It's been proven, it's enevitible , it's gonna happen.

 

Here's the problem. They keep talking of the millions of people who don't have insurance. They say 47 million, it's more like 20 million when you take away those who have it available and affordable but opt out and those who are illegal aliens, but I digress.

 

Why should over 100 million people lose the health care they like so that 20 million people get health care?

[phreakwars]

Fukkin doom and gloom fear mongering bastards.

.

.

[ImWithStupid]

Fukkin doom and gloom fear mongering bastards.

.

.

 

Just another unsubstantiated, no argument, DNC talking point, stance.

 

Who's on the defensive with no reply?

 

You.