You're not buying this "competition" horsesh!t are you?

[ImWithStupid]

I heard of one person who was so desperate for health care in Canada that he tried to stop an ATV from falling with his face.

 

 

LMFAO!!! .

[eddo]

Monday, July 06, 2009

John Stossel on Canadian health care and free lunches.

 

 

I heard of one person who was so desperate for health care in Canada that he tried to stop an ATV from falling with his face.

 

that's bad! lol!

[emkay64]

Monday, July 06, 2009

John Stossel on Canadian health care and free lunches.

 

 

I heard of one person who was so desperate for health care in Canada that he tried to stop an ATV from falling with his face.

 

Nice........................................

[ImWithStupid]

Nice........................................

 

 

JK. How's he doin' anyway?

[Ahhlee]

I heard of one person who was so desperate for health care in Canada that he tried to stop an ATV from falling with his face.

 

Don't you know that personal accounts are simply lies?

 

Dummy.

[Guest NewsBot]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- That was fast. The hope and optimism that washed over the country in the opening months of Barack Obama's presidency are giving way to harsh realities....

 

By NANCY BENAC and TREVOR TOMPSON

 

More...

[eddo]

this is false, according to Bender's numbers...

 

whom should I believe? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[phreakwars]

Yeah, this report is showing a 5% decrease then another one.... yeah Obama's finished now.

 

You have very little faith. I for one do not believe ANYBODY, Republican or Democrat, can turn things around in only 6 months after being inaugerated. The scream is he isn't doing enough, or too little, but hell, lets look at another guy

 

Reagan

 

Here's Reagan's unemployment numbers when first elected, what the evil Jimmy Carter left behind.

 

[attach=full]2357[/attach]

 

Here they are 6 months into HIS PRESIDENCY

 

[attach=full]2358[/attach]

 

Here they are at his reelection/tax cuts for the wealthy. Only took 4 years

 

[attach=full]2359[/attach]

 

And here is where it was when Clinton took over. The result of less taxes on the wealthy. Worse then Carter. But at least the wealthy were richer! 8 years time.

 

[attach=full]2360[/attach]

 

CONTINUED.....

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[phreakwars]

Here's Clinton's higher taxes just before Bush II was elected, the future was so bright, we had to wear shades.

 

[attach=full]2361[/attach]

 

 

Here's Bush II 1 month before 9/11, look, slipping already and the terrorist attacks haven't happened yet, so you can't blame them. But note that it IS 6 months after HIS inaugeration

 

[attach=full]2362[/attach]

 

Here's the aftermath of Bush, looks alot like the Reagan years eh? No need to show the time between, it isn't any prettier, but it DID take 8 years to do.

 

[attach=full]2363[/attach]

 

And here is what Obama is faced with, he'll be lucky as hell to have those numbers look like Carter's numbers just before his term ends... Just in time for Republicans to come in and screw it all up again... so have faith, YOU'LL GET YOUR CHANCE TO MAKE THIS NUMBER LOOK LIKE THE GOOD OLE DAYS, just like you always wanted. Give it till about 2017'

 

[attach=full]2364[/attach]

 

You can reference these maps here: http://data.bls.gov/map/servlet/map.servlet.MapToolServlet?survey=la&map=state&seasonal=s

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[RoyalOrleans]

[attach=full]2365[/attach]

 

And here is a Hello Kitty Darth Vader.

[RoyalOrleans]

When it comes to getting the Democrat’s political agenda passed, things like the Stimulous II plan, saving the banks, overhauling the Big 3 Auto companies, Obamacare, or “Cap and Tax”, all serve to keep the public in a constant state of concern, alarm and in some Liberal corridors, outright panic.

 

H.L. Mencken, noted American journalist and satirist in the mid 20th century summed it up best with this great line. "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

 

Obama, Pelosi. Reid et. al., have honed this strategy to very great effect. The key question is will the public wake up and realize most of these so called “crises” are just made up “excuses” for the pols in government to exert ever more control over us. The now widespread liberal notion of man-made CO2 causing this so called “Global Warming”, and which now requires a dubious global “cap and tax” solution, has got to be the biggest and phoniest “bogey-man” ever concocted.

 

Fortunately for the Democrats they can take heart in the lessons of one of the greatest propagandists that has ever existed, one Joseph Goebbels who during the fascist Hitler era once remarked, “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”.

 

Does Obama’s current incessant mantra about the need to pass “Obamacare”, “NOW”, come to mind here even though the plan doesn’t take effect until 2013, AFTER the next election?

 

That line is bested by Goebbels’ most well know homily, “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

[Anna Perenna]

An Email from a person down under.

 

Posted on Democratic underground.

 

I'd be interested to hear Anna Perenna's take on health care down under. She's not exactly the "POOR" class and probably has to buy her own.

 

But anyways, from

Email from my cousin in Australia about their health care system - Democratic Underground

 

An email from my cousin in Australia, about their health care system.

 

She grew up in New Zealand, now lives in Australia, and her siblings (my other cousins) still live in NZ. Keep in mind she is 49 years old. Names disguised for privacy sake.

 

My question

 

> I was reading on the internet that NZ has "public" health care where the

> government pays for much of your

> visits to hospitals and or for surgery? And that if you want "speedier"

> health care, you can purchase private health insurance.

 

 

My cousin's answer:

 

That's right, NZ's government has always been 'for the people', our healthcare system is very good indeed.

I'ts been a long time since I lived in NZ though and I don't have the most recent information on their services .

But when I was growing up in NZ everything was free, schooling, (except private schooling and University),

medical care, dental care, prescriptions, ambulance etc however once a person becomes a wage earner they must pay

for their own dental care although for low income earners or other people in diffuclt circumstances,

the government will subsidise the cost of medicine and treatment. Housing is subsidised too.

 

A couple of years ago A--- and I went over to NZ with C---- who had picked up a virus at one of the airports,

when we arrived in NZ we took him to the local hospital and they gave C---- the very best care,

they provided us with medicine, an after care programme and it cost us absolutely nothing!

 

 

My question

 

What is that like?

 

 

 

My cousin's answer:

 

NZ and Australia have a similar system, most hospital care is free however if you want elective or cosmetic surgery you must pay for it.

 

Medical insurance is a good thing to have, here the government actually pays for some of it as a tax refund.

 

A---- and I have private cover, so we have more choice, I can either go to a public hosptial for free or I can choose

to go to a private hospital and my medical insurance will pay for it.

The advantage of medical insurance is you don't have to wait as long for treatment and the medical care is often better as a paying patient.

.

.

 

We have free general health care for everyone under Medicare - regardless of health, age, lifestyle or income.

 

Most people elect to buy private health insurance, though, because the service is better - and because the ten million fear-mongering and want-stirring ads on television tell them to.

 

I don't buy private health insurance because I don't see the point and I have the money to pay for specialist surgery, should the 'need' ever arise.

 

However, I just want to say that I believe deliberately unhealthy people, who excessively destroy their bodies, should be taxed somehow. Eg, a drug and alcohol binger shouldn't be allowed to overdose more than twice before the hospital starts charging.

[timesjoke]

Bender, the excuse machine, lol.

 

Blaming other administrations was old politics, I thought Obama was going to change Washington?

[phreakwars]

So let me get this straight... You can blame the current President and call him a failure, whine about things that haven't happened, but if I post actual statistics of past Presidents I'm making excuse? If the charts favored either of the Bushes and Reagan, bet you'd say different. You call it excuses only because you don't want to face the reality... Republicans screw up the economy, Capitalism causes job losses. Job losses under conservative leadership is a standard. Look up Capitalism in itself and you'll see that this is usually the case. Unfortunately, our last President was trying for a new record low. 2 tax cuts to the wealthy during his term ensured that.

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[RoyalOrleans]

So let me get this straight... You can blame the current President and call him a failure, whine about things that haven't happened, but if I post actual statistics of past Presidents I'm making excuse? If the charts favored either of the Bushes and Reagan, bet you'd say different. You call it excuses only because you don't want to face the reality... Republicans screw up the economy, Capitalism causes job losses. Job losses under conservative leadership is a standard. Look up Capitalism in itself and you'll see that this is usually the case. Unfortunately, our last President was trying for a new record low. 2 tax cuts to the wealthy during his term ensured that.

.

.

 

Ooooo that's rich.

 

"There are lies, damned lies, and there are statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

[phreakwars]

It's why I am in favor of higher taxes on the rich. It keeps them in check and it motivates them to play by the rules and create jobs for Americans. The theory behind giving them tax cuts, is they will reinvest that and create more jobs. History has shown, that they simply don't do that... They reinvest it alright, either back into their own pockets, or in some foreign land. Which is not fair. The government mandated those tax cuts under the premise of creating more jobs. Reagan did it, jobs were lost, Bush 1 did it, jobs were lost... BOTH of these men had to eventually tame down the tax cuts to even us out again, and in doing so. For a while, jobs were being created again. Clinton took the tax cuts away, and in turn, in order to pull a decent profit, business owners started coming up with jobs. Then Bush had to go and cut taxes again... even during a time of war. Not once, but twice. Can anybody here honestly say they saw a difference in their income during either the tax breaks or tax increase on the rich? No, but during the that time, one thing is clear. More Americans had jobs while the rich were complaining and suffering, and more people were on welfare and subsidies while the rich were getting a break.

 

Myself I'd rather have a job in a fair tax system then live in a system where only the top percentage benefit.

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[RoyalOrleans]

blah blah blah typical Bender... blah blah

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Where the fukk is my motivation to be an achiever in this society? Why should I try to become "better off" financially if all I have to do is stumble my way through a meager existence.

 

Ohhhhhhh... feed me Uncle Obama! Tie me hand to foot, but feed me!

[ImWithStupid]

It's why I am in favor of higher taxes on the rich. It keeps them in check and it motivates them to play by the rules and create jobs for Americans. The theory behind giving them tax cuts, is they will reinvest that and create more jobs. History has shown, that they simply don't do that... They reinvest it alright, either back into their own pockets, or in some foreign land. Which is not fair. The government mandated those tax cuts under the premise of creating more jobs.

 

 

That isn't even remotely correct. It was provent that when top marginal rates were dropped from 70% to 29%, it doubled revenues to the federal government by both reinvestment and and increase in jobs, but by the rich stopped hiding their money so much because they didn't see it as being so unfair.

 

Second, there were many other things that contributed to the Reagan economic situation.

 

20% interest rates

Double digit inflation

 

Also, if you look back at my posts, I avoid using unemployment as a reference to the failure of the current administration's policy and only bring it up to state how they lied through their teeth go get the stimulus package passed, by fear mongering that if they didn't get it unemployment would reach 8.5% but if they got it it would stop at 8% (currently 9.5%). That said, I figured we'd get over 10% the whole time and the reason I avoided saying anything about unemployment is that it is a lagging indicator on the economy, just like housing is.

 

Both can decline fairly fast but even in decline the numbers are a bit behind, but when it comes to when the economy is in an incline situation, these numbers lag even farther behind.

 

There are other things that are a bit off in facts, such as the burst of the dot com bubble in 1999, left a recession going into the 2000's and thats why things were going down before 9/11, but 9/11 made them worse.

 

To point to just unemployment, or just housing, or just interest rates, or just inflation as proof, is negligent for accurate information.

[phreakwars]

The man doesn't need to feed anyone. He needs to create jobs. I've never claimed he was super man. But in order to create jobs, taxes need to be raised. It's a reality that Obama knows. Is not the title of this topic "GREAT HOPES FOR OBAMA FADE TO REALITY". The reality is, there is no way in HELL that he can possibly restimulate the economy without raising taxes. Realistically, the ones that can take the blunt of it, are the wealthy. Someone has to take the blunt of it. Now you can stick with your idealism of siding with the rich on this.... only to prolong the inevitable, or, you can take a more progressive side and accept the solution offered. You will never stimulate the economy with so many people out of work. You have nobody to spend products being made, nobody there to help the rich get richer. You can cut their taxes down to ZERO and it still wouldn't stimulate the economy. They could have all the money in the world to build all kinds of products and it won't do anybody a lick of good if nobody is there to buy it. You see Obama's stimulus as a waste, but you can't see the WHY's of it. It's to get people working again, so they start buying things from other guys, who then start hiring more people to keep up demand, who are also consumers, and start this little chain reaction... That's the whole idea. That's what's called rebuilding from the ground UP. It's easier to describe as TRICKLE UP and it makes more sense and does more good then trickle down economics. Sometimes I wonder if the Republicans main problem, is they confuse Capitalism with Corporatism. There is a difference you know. Nothing at all wrong with capitalism. Just seems the corporates wanna play a game with people's lives and try to convince Republicans that Capitalism is being destroyed and replaced with socialism. Evidently, it work's on 23% of the population.

 

You can also knock off another 10% of Liberals who are completely pissed at Obama and say he should have ran the Republican ticket for bringing on 2 Republicans from Bush's era to handle the money allegedly in our best interests. And also for being too damn centrist. Still you have other Liberals calling him George Bush all over with Sotomayer, The Preacher at his inauguration, his GitMo handling, all kinds of crap.

 

I don't care how well he does, as long as he doesn't quit 2 1/2 years into his term from all the criticism people give him, he's done his best.

 

The difference between you and me, is I don't look at it like "OH, HE'S GONNA FAIL, WERE ALL DOOMED" I'm not saying I think he can perform any miracles either, but he has brought change. Or at least is attempting to. He's at least trying a different course. And when you look at the numbers from 2000 to 2008, how can you NOT at least sit back for a moment and go "WE'LL, MIGHT AS WELL LET HIM TRY". Sure beats looking for the next conspiracy/complaint about his plans and methods for the next 4 years.

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[timesjoke]

You cannot stimulate the economy or create jobs by raising taxes. Government jobs do not help the economy, it is recycling the same tax dollars over and over again. We need new private sector jobs, exactly the kinds of jobs Obama is destroying.

 

Obama will go down in history as the President who killed the most private sector jobs during his presidency.

 

 

The rich will stay rich, if Obama forces them to move their money to safer places then that is exactly what they will do. Obama cannot tax money that is sitting still and that is why all of his estimates for tax revinue have been horribly low. They see the new taxes and just avoid or make up for them by passing them down to consumers.

 

 

Rich......not stupid.

 

 

Example, you raise taxes on Wal-Mart, and the top guys with Wal-Mart.....what do they do about that?

 

They raise prices to cover the increased cost of doing business and that means every time you Liberals/socialists raise taxes on the rich, you raise taxes on the poor instead. All taxes are paid by the poor, it is impossible to tax the rich.

 

 

Take the cap and tax policy Obama wants, it will directly hurt the poor raising costs in some areas to tripple current costs.......how does that help them?

 

 

 

 

 

Bender, Obama ran on the idea of a "NEW" Washington, not me. If you embrace his promises of new accountability and transparency then live by that standard and stop making so many excuses. Obama is responsible, he took the job knowing what needed to be done and made the promises.....now he has to live up to his failures because he caused those failures, not Bush, not Clinton, not Bush SR., not even Regan..........him, Obama has made these decisions.

 

 

Obama has broken so many of his campaign promises it is unreal how guys like you are still in the excuses mode for him.

 

Transparancy and finding solutions with bi-partisan support was some of his foundation promises and from day one, he has turned away from both.

 

 

 

I agree with IWS on the unemployment point, it is a bad indicator because of the lag effect but Obama used his own fear tactic on all of America about how his stimulus package was so important to keep unemployment below 8% that he did not even want anyone to read it first, just sign it and trust him to keep things from getting worse........

 

Well the American people trusted his word Bender........and everything has gotten worse, that is 100% Obama's fault. He got the bill he wanted without changes and without a single person voting for it reading the damn thing, it is all on Obama now, nobody else.

[phreakwars]

So your saying the sky REALLY IS falling Alex? You can accurately predict the outcome of Obama's plan yet couldn't predict the outcome of Bush's plan?

 

Your excuse for it, is the rich will obviously become traitors to America and go elsewhere? What they weren't doing that DURING their big tax break?

 

So lets see, what have I learned from oh wise one here...

 

Lots of unemployment... doesn't matter, no deficit from the democrats... doesn't matter... the Republicans have a better plan and the democrats are only trying to scare us you claim, as you also proclaim "THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING"

 

We all know what happened to chicken little when he kept talking shiit about the sky falling. Everybody started believing his bullshiit which created a panic till someone (probably a liberal) smacked some god damn sense into him.

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[timesjoke]

My name is not Alex, comment ignored.

[phreakwars]

Might as well be, you have all these conspiracy's of government takeovers, slavery, entitlement, higher taxes, hell, basically every damn thing Alex Jones says. I'll bet your probably another one of those idiots who question the guys birth certificate. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you were. But I'm going to, for once, give it the benefit of the doubt that your not really THAT STUPID.

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[timesjoke]

"Just keep it on topic. No flames, flame baiting or trolling."

 

I will be removed again if I do what your doing, so if it is to be a one way flame fest from you, I will simply not reply when your doing such Bender.

 

 

 

 

We have all pointed out your President and messiah has been using fear tactics to get things like the stimulus passed but you completely silent about that.

 

 

How about you address my point about increases in taxes being passed down to the "poor"?

 

How about you address how only the "rich" employ people.

 

How about you address how Government jobs do not make "new" dollars so they do nothing for the economy.

 

How about you address how lowering taxes actually increased taxes collected.

 

 

 

I don't know about the birth certificate deal really, I don't care either way to be honest, I know the rules say he is not eligable to be President if he is not an American but I don't really worry about that, if not him then Hillary would would have done everything Obama is doing right now, socialist is socialist.

 

What I do find as interesting though is every time he is pressed on that issue he runs away, why run? Simply show the damn thing and be done with it never to hear about it again, usually people who work so hard to avoid things like this have something to hide.

[phreakwars]

the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!

AND IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT

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