hugo Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 He broke the law by disorderly conduct not trespassing or burglary. Guess what the cop gets to determine that. Case closed. No, a cop does not get to determine that. A jury gets to determine that, if the case is even strong enough to get to court. In this case, the charge was deemed without merit and quickly dropped. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
hugo Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Officer: Hello sir, we have had a dispatch for this address reporting a possible break in, are you the resident of this home? Gates: Yes I am. Officer: Could you please show me some identification so I can verify that your the resident sir? Gates: Well.......here is my HARVARD Identification, now go away. Officer: Um...Sir, this does not show your address, it is just a picture ID showing your connected to the school, I need to see some form of identification proving your a resident of this location. Officer: I am going to arrest you. There has been a great deal of burglaries by Harvard professors lately. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
ImWithStupid Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Officer: I am going to arrest you. There has been a great deal of burglaries by Harvard professors lately. There weren't a lot of 80 year old men shooting people in holocaust museums until it happened either. There weren't a lot of female astronauts driving halfway across the country wearing adult diapers with plans to kill their love interests other woman until it happened either. Prominent people do a lot of wacky things. How is the cop supposed to know he isn't breaking into an ex-girlfriends place that he's stalking? Quote
timesjoke Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 There weren't a lot of 80 year old men shooting people in holocaust museums until it happened either. There weren't a lot of female astronauts driving halfway across the country wearing adult diapers with plans to kill their love interests other woman until it happened either. Prominent people do a lot of wacky things. How is the cop supposed to know he isn't breaking into an ex-girlfriends place that he's stalking? Oh, and I am sure there has never been a case of someone forging a University identification before........... Hugo, are you trying to say a professor is not capable of breaking the law and cops should just cease all normal procedures the second they see "professor" on a school identification card? I could not possibly care less what job a person works when it comes to following the law or procedures. The cop was trying to be sure the people in that home he had a break in call for belonged there....period. Gates exploded on the cop just for doing his job......period. Quote
hugo Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 There is no evidence that the cop was not certain that Gates was the resident of the home. Any ID , including a drivers license, can be fraudulent. I guess you are in favor of everyone being required by law to have three forms of ID on them at all times. Even in the privacy of their own home. It is sad how far down the road to serfdom we have traveled where a man has to worry about being dragged from his own property and thrown in the clink because he did not have the "right" ID. Quick search of the county tax records would verify the owner of the home. A lot quicker than hauling someone to jail. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
eddo Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Quick search of the county tax records would verify the owner of the home. Gates wouldn't let the officer use his computer to Google it... Quote I'm trusted by more women.
timesjoke Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 There is no evidence that the cop was not certain that Gates was the resident of the home. Any ID , including a drivers license, can be fraudulent. I guess you are in favor of everyone being required by law to have three forms of ID on them at all times. Even in the privacy of their own home. It is sad how far down the road to serfdom we have traveled where a man has to worry about being dragged from his own property and thrown in the clink because he did not have the "right" ID. Quick search of the county tax records would verify the owner of the home. A lot quicker than hauling someone to jail. So you believe a cop should not have the right to ask for identification with an address on it to ensure that people in a home with a break in call belong there? I am just trying to get you to answer a straight question as to why asking for identification is a provoking action that justifies a black man to scream at a white cop just trying to do his job. Quote
ImWithStupid Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 T Quick search of the county tax records would verify the owner of the home. A lot quicker than hauling someone to jail. Not everywhere makes that info available online. Even if it was, it would have come back to Harvard University, not Gates. Quote
eddo Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Even if it was, it would have come back to Harvard University, not Gates. excellent point. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
ImWithStupid Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 It looks like Gates' sister lives in Tampa... 911 call: Someone's trying to steal my beer | abcactionnews.com Click the video on the upper right side. Quote
hugo Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Not everywhere makes that info available online. Even if it was, it would have come back to Harvard University, not Gates. Yes, and the fact that he had a Harvard ID and was in a house owned by Harvard would indicate he probably had a right to be there. There is no doubt that Gates acted stupidly, there was still no need to arrest him. At most they could have handcuffed him, sat him in the back of the car and spent a few minutes verifying he was the rightful residence. Let me say though that the charge was not tresspassing, or burglary, and I have seen no evidence the officer was not certain of Gates right to be in the home. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
ImWithStupid Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Yes, and the fact that he had a Harvard ID and was in a house owned by Harvard would indicate he probably had a right to be there. There is no doubt that Gates acted stupidly, there was still no need to arrest him. At most they could have handcuffed him, sat him in the back of the car and spent a few minutes verifying he was the rightful residence. Let me say though that the charge was not tresspassing, or burglary, and I have seen no evidence the officer was not certain of Gates right to be in the home. So any of the thousands of people who work at Harvard were allowed there? He said on the radio that it appears that it's the resident but he's being uncooporative and still wanted back up to keep coming. I think that shows he still wasn't sure Gates was the resident but it was possible. Quote
snafu Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 No, a cop does not get to determine that. A jury gets to determine that, if the case is even strong enough to get to court. In this case, the charge was deemed without merit and quickly dropped. You don't get to court until after you get arrested. But your right case wasn't closed yet. Quote "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
hugo Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Just heard on Hannitty that Gates was arrested after he pursued the officer and continued to verbally harass the officer as the officer was leaving. Obviously, the officer was satisfied that Gates was the lawful resident. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
eddo Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Just heard on Hannitty that Gates was arrested after he pursued the officer and continued to verbally harass the officer as the officer was leaving. Obviously, the officer was satisfied that Gates was the lawful resident. Seems to me that Gates had an easy fix to this then. Shut the hell up and go back inside. Simple common sense should be that you don't follow someone outside and yell at them : #1) if they have a gun, and #2) if they can arrest you. Gates is a dumbass. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
hugo Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Seems to me that Gates had an easy fix to this then. Shut the hell up and go back inside. Simple common sense should be that you don't follow someone outside and yell at them : #1) if they have a gun, and #2) if they can arrest you. Gates is a dumbass. Totally agree. Being a dumbass ain't illegal. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
timesjoke Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Hugo, why won't you answer my question? So you believe a cop should not have the right to ask for identification with an address on it to ensure that people in a home with a break in call belong there? I am just trying to get you to answer a straight question as to why asking for identification is a provoking action that justifies a black man to scream at a white cop just trying to do his job. You claim Gates was provoked, why is asking for identification with an address considered provoking someone? Do you really believe a cop does not have the right to ask for identification with an address in this kind of situation? Quote
eddo Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 . Do you really believe a cop does not have the right to ask for identification with an address in this kind of situation? I'm pretty sure that isn't what hugo is saying, just that the officer could have stepped away and removed himself from the situation before it escalated to the point that it did. I don't agree that is what the officer should have done, but this is a perfect example of you inserting meanings that aren't there. of course, hugo can correct me if I am mistaken. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
hugo Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Since, Gates was not arrested for not producing his ID the question is a red herring. Crowley was satisfied that Gates was the legal resident of the home or he would not have been leaving without detaining Gates. He only arrested Gates when Gates pursued the officer and continued to verbally abuse the officer, Gates was arrested for talking crap to a cop. All Crowley had to do was leave. Gates was a dumbass, It is not illegal to be a dumbass. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
timesjoke Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 eddo, stay out of adult conversations if your not going to even try to pay attention. Hugo said earlier that the officer provoked Gates to act this way, I am now trying to pin Hugo down as to what part of the officer's requesting identification was wrong in Hugo's eyes. Since, Gates was not arrested for not producing his ID the question is a red herring. Crowley was satisfied that Gates was the legal resident of the home or he would not have been leaving without detaining Gates. He only arrested Gates when Gates pursued the officer and continued to verbally abuse the officer, Gates was arrested for talking crap to a cop. All Crowley had to do was leave. Gates was a dumbass, It is not illegal to be a dumbass. So another dodge? Why not just answer the question Hugo? Gates exploded on the cop for asking to produce identification that showed his address. Everything negative from this situation was because Gates felt he had a right to explode so his reason is relivant to this conversation Hugo. So, was the cop within his rights to ask for identification that showed the address when he is responding to a call of this nature Hugo? Simple question, no politics needed to answer it. Quote
RoyalOrleans Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 The conversation we ought to be having in response to the July 16 incident and its heated aftermath isn't about race, it's about police arrest powers, and the right to criticize armed agents of the government. The Henry Louis Gates "Teaching Moment" - Read it! Seriously. I call a spade, a spade and things as I see them. Regardless of how insane Gates little temper tantrum was, the cop could've got back in his cruiser and left the scene. Aren't police officers trained or schooled to difuse such situations professionally? Professionally? On my own property and on my own land, I should be able to curse a police officer up and down if I so desired. Ohhh... and I'm half hillbilly and hillbillies don't like cops (a peace officer is a wholly different discussion). Quote To be the Man, you've got to beat the Man. - Ric Flair Everybody knows I'm known for dropping science.
RoyalOrleans Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Cops are human beings too. Yes, they most certainly are human. And I applaud him for being a fukken human being, but he is also a civil servant who is paid with tax payer dollars. A little humility and restraint goes a long way. The number one reason that kept me from pursuing a career in law enforcement, or related fields, after my service in the Gulf, was the urge to beat on certain types. Quote To be the Man, you've got to beat the Man. - Ric Flair Everybody knows I'm known for dropping science.
wez Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 The number one reason that kept me from pursuing a career in law enforcement, or related fields, after my service in the Gulf, was the urge to beat on certain types. I think ya just slapped TJ's motivation on the head for becoming a cop and subsequent murder of a man for talking sh t to him before being quietly urged to find new employment.. Quote
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