My talk with a Canadian Doctor

[timesjoke]

I met a Canadian Doctor through my work last week (we are building him and his partners a new building) who moved from Canada to open a practice here in America.

 

With all this talk of single payer systems Obama is trying to create I decided to ask the gentleman if he would take the time to sit down with me and discuss things, he agreed and our families met up together at his home Saturday.

 

 

I can't begin to do justice in this post to cover all the things we talked about but a few details seemed to jump out at me and I thought I would share them with you guys.

 

 

First of all, doctors in Canada do not make much money, they are forced to accept whatever compensation the Government thinks is reasonable for each service. He told me his biggest reason for moving to America is to be compensated for his skills and knowledge.

 

 

The first step in the cause for very long waiting lines in the single payer system is the reimbursement. A doctor cannot get paid for certain procedures, take a simple urine test, some small things can be discovered right away if the doctor does the simple urine test but because the Doctor cannot do "all" tests on urine, the single payer system will only pay a hospital or lab to do any test on urine, blood is handled the same way. So the doctor office will not do the simple test if they cannot get paid to do it.

 

 

So everything is sent to a "specialist" who 'can' get paid to do the simple tests where the doctor cannot, but that slows down even the most basic treatments. Another great example is a throat culture to check for strep, in Canada it could take days to go through the process of getting something so basic treated properlly, here in America he does the strep culture in his office and the patient is getting treated right away.

 

 

I asked Him, other than the money, what to him was the best part of being a doctor in America compared to Canada and he said his ability to stay connected to his patients even through advanced medical conditions. In Canada a family doctor is more of triage nurse than a real doctor because the Government will not pay for a family doctor to do much of anything that would be called real medicine.

 

 

This doctor has two sons, one is about to start medical school and he is very proud of him. I asked all of them during dinner what they thought of Obama's medical plan and his wife spoke first (she runs his office), "What plan?" she said.

 

They all giggled a little and she described the same thing I have said, there are no specifics available for what Obama is trying to pass but the many examples comming out of all the seperate committies do not match up to the general outline Obama keeps promising so what is anyone to believe?

 

They are firmly against a single payer system because in their opinion, it hurts patients. The one detail that all of the different versions agree on is they will work tword eliminating all private health insurance. So they do not support Obama care.

 

 

 

He made a pretty good point about America and healthcare, we get the newest and greatest tools/treatments because the companies who design/create/invent these things are looking foward to making money. Canada and other Countries who do not allow a profit to be made in anything to do with medical treatments would never see new products if not for Countries like America paying for them to be created.

 

Once "ALL" Nations turn to socialist medicine, there will be no incentive for innovation in the medical fields.

[eddo]

well of course a doctor is against Obama-care!

 

It will stop all their drug & insurance company kickbacks, cut their salary to something that the average persons can deem as reasonable, and make them play less golf.

 

[ImWithStupid]

well of course a doctor is against Obama-care!

 

It will stop all their drug & insurance company kickbacks, cut their salary to something that the average persons can deem as reasonable, and make them play less golf.

 

 

 

Drug company kick backs are already illegal.

 

As for a doctor not making a "reasonable" amount. I agree with Mike Huckabee...

 

 

Doctors Should Make a Lot of Money

 

Monday , July 27, 2009

By Mike Huckabee

 

[attach=full]2475[/attach]

 

I want doctors to make money. Frankly, I want them to make a lot of money.

 

They don't have to make as much as Oprah, who made $275 million last year; or George Lucas, who made $170 million, or Stephen Spielberg, who made $150 million. Heck, both Tiger Woods and Madonna made $110 million last year.

 

The average doctor pay is less than what members of Congress make, and specialists average an amount that's not much better, and that's before you factor in all the free food, travel and outright graft that some members of Congress will be able to add.

 

I don't begrudge congressional salaries, but I sure as heck don't think what they do is as hard as brain surgery or doing a heart transplant. When I was a kid, it was assumed that the valedictorian would probably go to med school. Being a doctor was pretty much for the best and brightest and we assumed they would make the best money because they were smart and would have to be in school about four times longer than the rest of us just to become a doctor; then they would be on call 24 hours a day and have to get called out of church and their kids' ballgames to hurry to the hospital to take care of people who got banged up in a car wreck or had a stroke.

 

I want my doctor to make good money. I want him or her to be the smartest kid in his class, not the average. I want my doctor to enjoy being a doctor, and don't want the doctor coming into the operating room worrying about paying the rent, but thinking of how to keep me healthy enough so I can pay my own rent. If we keep talking about limiting doctor salaries, we might get people who really aren't that good, but they were willing to do the job at a discount.

 

I don't care if Oprah made $275 million last year or if Kobe Bryant brought down $45 million. But if a member of my family has a brain tumor, I don't want Oprah or Kobe doing the operation. I want the best neurosurgeon I can find, and I won't be looking for the low bidder or seeing if there is a coupon in the paper for 10% off the cost. I want someone who has worked real hard to know what he's doing and does it well. And if he's really, really good at it, he'll still only make about a penny for each dollar that Oprah makes.

 

If one of the results of the government fixing health care is to encourage the smart people to do what Oprah does and the dumb people to become doctors, then thanks, but no thanks. I need a good doctor a lot more than I need Oprah. And I want my doctor to make a lot of money.

 

 

That's my view, I welcome yours.

 

Doctors Should Make a Lot of Money - Huckabee - FOXNews.com

[eddo]

Drug company kick backs are already illegal.

 

As for a doctor not making a "reasonable" amount. I agree with Mike Huckabee...

 

 

Doctors Should Make a Lot of Money - Huckabee - FOXNews.com

 

oh, I totally agree.

[timesjoke]

well of course a doctor is against Obama-care!

 

It will stop all their drug & insurance company kickbacks, cut their salary to something that the average persons can deem as reasonable, and make them play less golf.

 

 

What exactly do you think the average doctor makes a year eddo?

 

So your looking for your doctor to be an "average" person? To earn an "average" income? The "Average" person has only a highschool education with maybe 2 years of community college or less, does that qualify them to be a doctor eddo?

 

You do not think someone who has 8 years and more of college should get a little more than "average" pay?

 

Well, if we pass Obama care, that is exactly what your going to get, Joe Average, why? Becuase being a doctor is not an "average" job and anyone worth two squirts of piss would not work that hard to make such a small about of money. My brother in law is a doctor, I make about twice as much a year as he does (well the ex-wife gets almost half of that so I guess I make the same as he does after child support), and I am an idiot, lol

 

 

Look at all the single payer Countries and what is one of the most common problems? Not enough doctors and nursed, Denmark just had a massive revolt from their nurses last year, and they are considered one of the best systems.

 

Canada will be short 10,000 doctors by 2010...........why?

 

Because nobody wants the jobs.

 

 

 

 

My point in this is is to share his view of where the rationing and the poor quality of care in Canada came from, as well as why the top doctors like himself are leaving Canada. His point about profit motivating innovation for new products and treatments is also valid. Take the money out of it and who will want to spend billions on reasearch and development?

[ImWithStupid]

What exactly do you think the average doctor makes a year eddo?

 

So your looking for your doctor to be an "average" person? To earn an "average" income? The "Average" person has only a highschool education with maybe 2 years of community college or less, does that qualify them to be a doctor eddo?

 

You do not think someone who has 8 years and more of college should get a little more than "average" pay?

 

 

 

I think he was being fecetious.

[eddo]

What exactly do you think the average doctor makes a year eddo?

 

So your looking for your doctor to be an "average" person? To earn an "average" income? The "Average" person has only a highschool education with maybe 2 years of community college or less, does that qualify them to be a doctor eddo?

 

 

Me? no. I prefer a doctor that knows what they hell they are doing, and has the school, training, and equipment to do the job right- and has incentive to learn more, and become better doctors.

 

I was just helping Chi and Bender get their defense going.

 

apparently you all missed my that I used to display sarcasm...

[timesjoke]

Pardon my missing it eddo, so you agree severely lowering doctor income is not a good thing, thanks.

 

 

I know a lot of people do believe Doctors make too much money but they also pay out most of that money is overhead like Malpractice Insurance premiums.

 

 

When I asked the doctor what he would think could help lower costs of medical care he said to reduce lawsuits (tort reform) so it will lower Malpractice Insurance. He pays more on Malpractice Insurance than anything else to maintain his office and he does not have a single claim against him.

[eddo]

Pardon my missing it eddo, so you agree severely lowering doctor income is not a good thing, thanks.

 

 

I know a lot of people do believe Doctors make too much money but they also pay out most of that money is overhead like Malpractice Insurance premiums.

 

 

When I asked the doctor what he would think could help lower costs of medical care he said to reduce lawsuits (tort reform) so it will lower Malpractice Insurance. He pays more on Malpractice Insurance than anything else to maintain his office and he does not have a single claim against him.

 

I am having an ongoing discussion with one of my kids involving this very thing. He is 14, and it very Pro Obama- based mostly on Obama-care.

 

He has Krone's disease, and has recently been cut from his parents health insurance policy (not real sure how or why) but he is on gov't healthcare now. When he turns 25, he will have an almost impossible task of trying to get coverage for himself, and that scares him. Under Obama-Care, he would be able to get coverage.

 

He used doctors salary in his argument against the current system, and how "they make too much money, and if they cannot live off of less money then too bad for them!"

 

I feel sympathetic for him, but just believe that Obama-Care is not the answer, and neither is cutting or limiting salaries of doctors.

[timesjoke]

Well everyone is already saying Obama care will cost more money than if he did nothing so his claim this is to bring down costs is bull too.

 

 

 

I support reforms on medical care, mostly on tort reform and I support a few other ideas even liberals have. I just do not believe blindly getting involved in running all American's medical care. Government employees are not smart enough to run things like this, they will screw it up big time no matter how well intended the lawmakers are.

[Chi]

Me? no. I prefer a doctor that knows what they hell they are doing, and has the school, training, and equipment to do the job right- and has incentive to learn more, and become better doctors.

 

I was just helping Chi and Bender get their defense going.

 

apparently you all missed my that I used to display sarcasm...

 

Me? I have no problems with doctor's earning what they deserve. I also agree that the claims to pay off those who file frivilous lawsuits should cease. But no one can't deny that doctors and nurses majorly screw up sometimes, too. In the end, they are still only human like the rest of us.

[timesjoke]

Me? I have no problems with doctor's earning what they deserve. I also agree that the claims to pay off those who file frivilous lawsuits should cease. But no one can't deny that doctors and nurses majorly screw up sometimes, too. In the end, they are still only human like the rest of us.

 

Then you do not support Obama care?

[Chi]

Then you do not support Obama care?

 

I support at least attempting to find and try a better way. Socialized healthcare has worked for a lot of countries. Why not ours? <- And that is a rhetorical question, not a green light for you to spout off with your nonsense and to start presenting your opinions as fact. Because I will not waste my time on your novel sized responses and circular arguments anymore, tell you that right now.

[timesjoke]

I support at least attempting to find and try a better way. Socialized healthcare has worked for a lot of countries. Why not ours? <- And that is a rhetorical question, not a green light for you to spout off with your nonsense and to start presenting your opinions as fact. Because I will not waste my time on your novel sized responses and circular arguments anymore, tell you that right now.

 

Well like it or not it has not worked for other Countries.

 

I have proved Canada sends thousands of patients to America they can't treat and medical travel in Canada covers many thousands of Canadians every year. If their system is working so well, why are so many people heading to other places?

 

 

I agree with you that we need to find a better way, but I don't see how us moving to the Canadian single payer system that has already been proven to suck will make anything better in America.

[snafu]

Me? I have no problems with doctor's earning what they deserve. I also agree that the claims to pay off those who file frivilous lawsuits should cease. But no one can't deny that doctors and nurses majorly screw up sometimes, too. In the end, they are still only human like the rest of us.

 

Yes I agree with you. They do screw up but if it's not total negligence I think this is where the government can step in and compensate this instead of insurance (I know I?m gonna catch hell for saying this).

[Chi]

Well like it or not it has not worked for other Countries.

 

I have proved Canada sends thousands of patients to America they can't treat and medical travel in Canada covers many thousands of Canadians every year. If their system is working so well, why are so many people heading to other places?

 

 

I agree with you that we need to find a better way, but I don't see how us moving to the Canadian single payer system that has already been proven to suck will make anything better in America.

 

You haven't proved anything. More people than not seem to love their socialized health care plan. Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is.

[Chi]

Yes I agree with you. They do screw up but if it's not total negligence I think this is where the government can step in and compensate this instead of insurance (I know I’m gonna catch hell for saying this).

 

The government??? Why in the world should the government be held responsible for someone else's screw up?! Whoever screws up is who should take the responsibility, unless we live in the Twilight Zone. And only pay for the mistake FAIRLY. None of this, you guys screwed up so now I'm gonna be rich bs mentality.

 

We have to get rid of these greedy, blood sucking lawyers who just go after as much as they possibly can with nothing, but loopholes and unfair technicalities. And some of these judges who rule with the judgement of a retarded roach on crack.

[snafu]

The government??? Why in the world should the government be held responsible for someone else's screw up?! Whoever screws up is who should take the responsibility, unless we live in the Twilight Zone. And only pay for the mistake FAIRLY. None of this, you guys screwed up so now I'm gonna be rich bs mentality.

 

Because this is why our insurance is so high. It would be easier for us to change the laws or compensate someone than have higher insurance premiums. Same difference I guess.

[timesjoke]

You haven't proved anything. More people than not seem to love their socialized health care plan. Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is.

 

More people than not love their private insurance in America. No, it is not perfect but nothing is.

 

 

You see how that works both ways?

 

 

The entire debate is not about those who like what they have, if that was the point we would not change anything because only a very tiny segment of America has a problem getting healthcare. Everyone can go to the emergency room if nothing else.

 

 

The problem with Canada is they "CAN'T" treat all of their people, there is the problem that chould concern Americans. America is the relief valve for Canada, if America adopts the single payer system like Canada then both Countries will suffer greatly.

[Chi]

More people than not love their private insurance in America. No, it is not perfect but nothing is.

 

 

You see how that works both ways?

.

 

Um, no. Many people avoid going to the doctor because it is so expensive, even with insurance (me and a lot of others.) Many people can't even afford insurance in the first place (that was also me for a long time at my old job and many others that I know.) People not having insurance costs a lot more in the long run.

 

And yeah, there is always going to the emergency room... You know how backwards and what a waste of money and resources that is when it isn't truly an emergency and when people are never going to be able to pay for that??

 

Everything else you said is bs. Just something you believe that is greatly exaggerrated for you and others with your mindset to push to further your outlook. It's nothing but fear and just going against everything that Obama and his administration come up with.

[Chi]

Also, out of curiosity, what is this Canadian doctor's name? I'm surprised you didn't mention one at all, not even a first name. And how are you building him a building for his practice? I thought you were in sales and/or working with something to do with cooling & heating or something like that?

 

You can't blame my doubt, you do like pulling off so-called "experiments" and what not. It also sounds a bit like you are trying to one up Emkay since you couldn't argue successfully with someone who has first hand experience on the issue.

[phreakwars]

I agree, name this Dr. Should be pretty easy to verify.

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[Ahhlee]

Also, out of curiosity, what is this Canadian doctor's name? I'm surprised you didn't mention one at all, not even a first name. And how are you building him a building for his practice? I thought you were in sales and/or working with something to do with cooling & heating or something like that?

 

You can't blame my doubt, you do like pulling off so-called "experiments" and what not. It also sounds a bit like you are trying to one up Emkay since you couldn't argue successfully with someone who has first hand experience on the issue.

 

You did shoot down emkay's personal experience as "lies", TJ. If you are going to debase her personal experiences as falsehoods, why should your own be accepted as gospel?

 

Just something to consider.

[snafu]

Maybe this doctor wants anominity. I'm sure he would just love for TJ to plaster his name all over the board.

[phreakwars]

Considering you can find info on any given Dr. in the world just with a name, I doubt it.

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