My talk with a Canadian Doctor

[snafu]

Considering you can find info on any given Dr. in the world just with a name, I doubt it.

.

.

 

Hmm.. maybe but its off the clock talk.

[phreakwars]

I'm gonna go with a made up Dr and talking points stolen from a right wing website.

.

.

[snafu]

I'm gonna go with a made up Dr and talking points stolen from a right wing website.

.

.

 

LOL..

 

I'd have to say it's a tit for tat but go with your gut instinct.

[phreakwars]

10 Myths About Canadian Health Care, Busted | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

TJ said:

 

First of all, doctors in Canada do not make much money, they are forced to accept whatever compensation the Government thinks is reasonable for each service.

 

 

Well, there is this governemnt site report that says different:

 

http://archive.gao.gov/d20t9/144039.pdf

 

The two nations have certain common features that make Canada?s

experience relevant for the United States. Although it is not identical to

the United States, Canada probably comes closer to sharing certain U.S.

characteristics than any other industrialized country. First, it does not

have a socialized system of delivering medical care. Rather, most health

resources in Canada are in the private sector. It is a system whereby a

third party pays private providers. Second, most physicians are independent

and earn their incomes by fee-for-service. Ninety-five percent

of Canadian doctors work for themselves, not for the government.

Finally, 90 percent of hospitals are private, nonprofit corporations,

exceptions being federally owned and operated veterans? hospitals and

provincial psychiatric hospitals.

And TONS of other sites that say TJ is full of it.

.

.

[Old Salt]

10 Myths About Canadian Health Care, Busted | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

TJ said:

 

 

 

 

Well, there is this governemnt site report that says different:

 

http://archive.gao.gov/d20t9/144039.pdf

 

And TONS of other sites that say TJ is full of it.

.

.

Most of the doctors in Turkey work for themselves, but THE GOVERNMENT SETS WHAT THEY CAN CHARGE.

[phreakwars]

Most of the doctors in Turkey work for themselves, but THE GOVERNMENT SETS WHAT THEY CAN CHARGE.

Ain't nothing wrong with that. Prevents them from charging ridiculous charges. If they don't like it, then they can be a private practitioner.

.

.

[Old Salt]

Ain't nothing wrong with that. Prevents them from charging ridiculous charges. If they don't like it, then they can be a private practitioner.

.

.

Those ARE the private practitioners.

[phreakwars]

Well, that's Turkey, not Canada. The data shows the private guys in Canada call the shots.

.

.

[RoyalOrleans]

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/commerce.web/product_files/HowGoodisCanadianHealthCare2008.pdf

 

This is written BY A CANADIAN regarding why their system is no good. I would direct your attention to page 86 (the study conclusion).

 

I don't believe TJ's little tall tale, but take the time to read the above article.

[ImWithStupid]

Those ARE the private practitioners.

 

 

It's the same in Canada. The government says what they will pay the doctors, just like Medicare here, that you and I offset the cost of lower government rates, by paying more.

 

That's why prescription drugs are cheap in Canada. The government says what can be charged, and also why none of the new drugs or cutting edge breakthroughs in medicine, that help people come from single payer, government controlled, health care countries.

[phreakwars]

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/commerce.web/product_files/HowGoodisCanadianHealthCare2008.pdf

 

This is written BY A CANADIAN regarding why their system is no good. I would direct your attention to page 86 (the study conclusion).

 

I don't believe TJ's little tall tale, but take the time to read the above article.

 

Good find, it's easy to see why one would make Canada their "BAD SOCIALIST SYSTEM" target of choice when trying to knock a public option. In comparison to the other public health countries, Canada sux. I'm guessing the reason being, is Canada has alot more greedy Dr's who would rather come to the states.. just a short hop over the border. Check out this from page 89. Also note where Turkey ranks. Where does America rank in # of Dr's per 1000? 3.3

 

[attach=full]2476[/attach]

 

Page 59, also has some interesting data as well.

 

Here's America BTW

 

[attach=full]2477[/attach]

 

Here's something else interesting.

 

Health care spending in Canada is projected to reach $160 billion, or 10.6% of GDP, in 2007. This is slightly above the average for OECD countries, and substantially below the 15.2% of GDP taken by up healthcare in the United States.

 

.

.

[phreakwars]

Here's something interesting,which also ties into the above data.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCvsrJ1QF60]YouTube - What is the Happiest Country on Earth -- And Why?[/ame]

.

.

[timesjoke]

You did shoot down emkay's personal experience as "lies", TJ. If you are going to debase her personal experiences as falsehoods, why should your own be accepted as gospel?

 

Just something to consider.

 

I never said her words were lies, I said she was not being fair to the situation and also offered that her small exposures were not wide enough to discount the massive flood of information that did not agree with her. I offered as example my own circles are similar to emkay's, nobody I directly know has ever had a problem getting medical care so if we are only going to allow personal exposures into the discussion would it be reasonable for me to claim America's system is perfect and nobody falls through the cracks? Everything is perfect with our healthcare because my circles are well cared for?

 

I don't think so, there is a larger truth, even if some folks are too traped in self-defensive modes to publically admit them.

 

Did you even click any of the links I offered?

 

 

 

As far as naming the doctor, I do not believe his name is relivant, those of you who are in love with Obama no matter what I post, I am sure flaming the doctor will follow the second he is named and that is not the subject, just another way to derail discussion away from the real topic.

 

 

 

The Government sets the pay schedule, they even decide where a new doctor can set up practice by saying they "need" doctors 'here' and if the doctor refuses to locate where they tell him to he cannot get any Government funds.

[phreakwars]

In other words, you made it up.

 

Case closed.

.

.

[timesjoke]

In other words, you made it up.

 

Case closed.

.

.

 

How do you figure, just because I don't want to post a private person's name on an open forum?

 

Your an ass Bender, I am not telling a lie, like the informatio or not, it is still true. I posted a story about Canada being short 10,000 doctors by the end of 2010 in the Canada thread before, why do you thing people don't want to be doctors in Canada then if it is not the very low pay?

 

 

How about you address his points instead of dodging these valid points with more personal attacks?

[Ahhlee]

I never said her words were lies, I said she was not being fair to the situation and also offered that her small exposures were not wide enough to discount the massive flood of information that did not agree with her. I offered as example my own circles are similar to emkay's, nobody I directly know has ever had a problem getting medical care so if we are only going to allow personal exposures into the discussion would it be reasonable for me to claim America's system is perfect and nobody falls through the cracks? Everything is perfect with our healthcare because my circles are well cared for?

 

You said she was being untruthful. Same fukking thing as saying her "words were lies".

 

ONE DOCTOR from Canada offering his opinion, which conveniently is exactly the same as your own, isn't considered a "small exposure"????

 

And at no point did emkay ever claim that Canada's system is perfect. All she wanted to add to the discussion is that she is a Canadian, has dealt with the Canadian healthcare system her entire life, and she has never had any major problems with it. It was simply her two cents and you attacked her integrity for it.

 

Sucks when the tables are turned, huh?

 

I don't think so, there is a larger truth, even if some folks are too traped in self-defensive modes to publically admit them.

 

Did you even click any of the links I offered?

 

 

My opinion on socialized health care is that I think it stinks. I don't need to click on any links to make me believe the same or otherwise.

[timesjoke]

You said she was being untruthful. Same fukking thing as saying her "words were lies".

 

There is a big difference between a lie and avoiding the truth as a whole. I acknowledged that she felt her exposures were all honey and sugar, the greatest thing she could ever imagine healthcare to be, but she would never admit to things like the anual meeting in Canada where the massive waiting lines were being discussed.

 

Her refusal to admit the size of the problem was what I called Disingenuous.

 

 

ONE DOCTOR from Canada offering his opinion, which conveniently is exactly the same as your own, isn't considered a "small exposure"????

 

Is two people agreeing 1 + 1 = 2 also just convenient in your mind? Could two people agree because they are right?

 

I am not offering this Doctor's views as being everything, just another point for consideration. We have many things to support his points independant though, like the shortage of 10,000 doctors in Canada by the end of 2010.......I will ask you the same question as Bender, why do you think Canadians find these doctor jobs as undesirable?

 

 

And at no point did emkay ever claim that Canada's system is perfect. All she wanted to add to the discussion is that she is a Canadian, has dealt with the Canadian healthcare system her entire life, and she has never had any major problems with it. It was simply her two cents and you attacked her integrity for it.

 

Sucks when the tables are turned, huh?

 

Not really, my point about her possition was based in her avoiding the points I made like her own suppreme court saying Canadians were dying because of the long waiting lines. Not once did Emkay ever admit the long waiting lines were a "BIG" problem, she just shrugged them off as not being real.

 

 

Your "turning tables" is based in revenge seeking, mine is searching for the truth, so there is no comparison between our two actions even if they may "seem" to be similar on the surface.

 

 

My opinion on socialized health care is that I think it stinks. I don't need to click on any links to make me believe the same or otherwise.

 

So you completely agree with my assessment but you complain about my lack of being politically correct?

 

I like Emkay, but I see no reason to entertain fantacy just to make her or anyone else feel better about the facts. Sugar coating is not something I am any good at.

[Ahhlee]

So you completely agree with my assessment but you complain about my lack of being politically correct?

 

I like Emkay, but I see no reason to entertain fantacy just to make her or anyone else feel better about the facts. Sugar coating is not something I am any good at.

 

Your lack of tact sucks, yes.

 

But your hypocrisy is much, much worse.

[timesjoke]

Your lack of tact sucks, yes.

 

But your hypocrisy is much, much worse.

 

I have never been a hypocrite ever in my life, I live the life I preach.

 

Tact, let me ask you a question, does tact change reality? Will people get the medical care they need if I sugar coat the reality of socialized health care? When I debate here and other places I assume I am talking to adults, I have never debated a topic with the idea I wanted to hurt someone's feelings. I try to debate the facts of an issue, anything else is wasted time as far as I am concerned.

[ImWithStupid]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64sd7k4M8E&feature=related]YouTube - Pee Wee & Frances[/ame]

[Chi]

I have never been a hypocrite ever in my life, I live the life I preach.

 

Tact, let me ask you a question, does tact change reality? Will people get the medical care they need if I sugar coat the reality of socialized health care? When I debate here and other places I assume I am talking to adults, I have never debated a topic with the idea I wanted to hurt someone's feelings. I try to debate the facts of an issue, anything else is wasted time as far as I am concerned.

 

TJ - How is it that every single person on this board and even some at the Jungle have seen and noticed your double-standards, bs and twisting of words? It's no coincedence and it's in all kinds of varying issues.

[timesjoke]

TJ - How is it that every single person on this board and even some at the Jungle have seen and noticed your double-standards, bs and twisting of words? It's no coincedence and it's in all kinds of varying issues.

 

They say it but every time I have pinned any of you down to give a hard example you flounder.

 

Give me a hard example of me living my life completely different than what I preach, if you can.

[Chi]

They say it but every time I have pinned any of you down to give a hard example you flounder.

 

Give me a hard example of me living my life completely different than what I preach, if you can.

 

LOL!!! You are hilarious! First of all, you can NEVER admit when you're wrong nor when you've been defeated. You don't know when to give up, you're stubborn. Yet you conveniently avoid things that benefit you to. Secondly, you try every which way to win an argument no matter what, even when it makes absolutely no sense. You also like twisting people's words and to put words in their mouth.

 

You also have no self-awareness and you are completely intolerant. You see things as absolutes, black & white, only one way and your way.

[timesjoke]

LOL!!! You are hilarious! First of all, you can NEVER admit when you're wrong nor when you've been defeated. You don't know when to give up, you're stubborn. Yet you conveniently avoid things that benefit you to. Secondly, you try every which way to win an argument no matter what, even when it makes absolutely no sense. You also like twisting people's words and to put words in their mouth.

 

You also have no self-awareness and you are completely intolerant. You see things as absolutes, black & white, only one way and your way.

 

I rest my case, every time I try to pin you guys down for a specific example you dodge the question and start in with general claims of me being a bad person.......your desperately reaching.....and failing miserably.

 

 

I could not possibly care less about how many people share a wrong assumption about me, I live for me and my loved ones, not to kiss azz or worry about the brittle feelings of spoiled brat style posters.

 

 

If you can offer a specific example of me being a hypocrite then do so, if not then just let go of the personal flames, your acting the way you claim I act.

[Chi]

I rest my case, every time I try to pin you guys down for a specific example you dodge the question and start in with general claims of me being a bad person.......your desperately reaching.....and failing miserably.

 

 

I could not possibly care less about how many people share a wrong assumption about me, I live for me and my loved ones, not to kiss azz or worry about the brittle feelings of spoiled brat style posters.

 

 

If you can offer a specific example of me being a hypocrite then do so, if not then just let go of the personal flames, your acting the way you claim I act.

 

Exhibits A, B, C & etc...^^^ TJ - You never asked for examples in your prior comment. We were talking about you in general. The specific examples have been pointed out to you in every single post you've participated in on any given argument you have had with any given member, time and time again. Don't act crazy.

 

But okay, now you say to give you an example of being a hypocrit. I'll give you a few just from the top of my head. You said you don't like being called a liar yet you called Emmy a liar from merely giving her personal accounts with Canadian healthcare. 2. You say you don't like people personally attacking you and that you never stoop so low. Yet you do, most recently you attacked Ali saying she was alone and wallows in it. What the hell is that??? Others here (me, all the way!) resort to personal attacks, but at least won't deny it nor will act holier than thou about it.