WH understands frustration with Cash for Clunkers

[timesjoke]

I believe it is pretty clear he knows the truth, this is why you can't ever pin him down on any details, he has deniability as long as he never admits to any specific point and down the road he can claim that he offered guidelines but it was congress, not him who designed the specifics so when it goes "wrong" it will not be his fault.

 

 

The bill does not directly remove private insurance, but it indirectly does this as my Wal-Mart example where they will be offering the same products for much less money and creating regulations that will severely increase cost to the private companies.

 

 

As the tide flows and more people move to the Government system, less market share will further drive the private insurance companies out of business, one person at a time. Will this be overnight? Heck no, even Obama said it will take around ten years to completely erase all private insurance companies.

[RoyalOrleans]

Last night, during my Braves broadcast, I saw a KIA commercial spewing on about "everyone has a right to drive a new car".

 

"Right to drive a new car". Hahaha.... that's rich.

 

I'd get a horse and buggy before driving a KIA.

[Old Salt]

Yep, everyone has the right to drive a new car. IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT.

[timesjoke]

Yep, everyone has the right to drive a new car. IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT.

 

And it is the more extreme idea of everyone having a right to a new home that caused the housing/bank problems. When things become a 'right' the Government gets in the middle and always will create problems that were never accounted for.

 

 

 

Something interesting.........the C4C program paid for more foreign cars than domestic. That means most of the profit was sent off to other lands, not America. If you ask me, this is one of our biggest problems. How can an economy thrive when most of the things we buy do not come from here? Recycling money is one of the things our economy needs. When so much of it is going to places like China, that takes more money out of America to circulate other places but not here. Then we get loans from those same Countries who we send all that money too..........sounds pretty silly to me.

[phreakwars]

Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Subaru, Huyndai's etc, AREN'T built in the USA by American workers?

 

Man, what do all those American workers do at those factories then?

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[RoyalOrleans]

Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Subaru, Huyndai's etc, AREN'T built in the USA by American workers?

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My Toyota Tundra was built in Princeton, Indiana by non-union workers under the guidance of lean manufacturing philosophy.

[RoyalOrleans]

Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Subaru, Huyndai's etc, AREN'T built in the USA by American workers?

 

Man, what do all those American workers do at those factories then?

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Ohh... as addendum to the previous post?

 

What do all those American workers do at those factories? A lot and I mean a lot more than the average union worker in Detroit.

[timesjoke]

Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Subaru, Huyndai's etc, AREN'T built in the USA by American workers?

 

Man, what do all those American workers do at those factories then?

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Please go back and read what I posted before you run off in the distance on something I never said.

 

I was commenting on the vehicles involved in the C4C program. These are all small gas efficent vehicles. Based on the reports, Toyota was the big winner and yes, Americans did benefit, I am not disputing that, but as I said:

 

That means most of the profit was sent off to other lands, not America.

 

The Ford Focus was the number 2 car though, I guess that counts for something.

 

 

I guess my point is we are sending out tax dollars to other Countries, to me that seems a tad silly. How much intrest or inflation will we absorb in the long run for short term gain? And if we are going to create such interest and inflation, should we not be trying to keep all the money here in America?

 

 

PS:

 

The Ford Focus is only made from 50% American materials.

[phreakwars]

Doesn't matter if the foreign companies are making the money (we owe them anyway for all that cash Bush borrowed after our surplus money he blew ran out). The important part... and a key component behind C4C, is that it is putting Americans back to work.

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[timesjoke]

Doesn't matter if the foreign companies are making the money (we owe them anyway for all that cash Bush borrowed after our surplus money he blew ran out). The important part... and a key component behind C4C, is that it is putting Americans back to work.

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Something like this is a borrow from peter to pay paul though Bender. Most of the car sales would have happened anyway, just not so fast. Those future sales now will not happen so did anyone really gain anything?

 

Not really, but it sounds good from a political point I am sure.

 

 

 

And talking about Bush borrowing money when Obama is burrowing much, much more is not really helping your cause very much, lol.

 

 

 

Anyway, back on topic, the failure to plan ahead for something so very small shows the limits of Government and Government employees. They just can't handle things like this very well, so putting all of healthcare in the hands of these complete fools is stupid.

[RoyalOrleans]

Doesn't matter if the foreign companies are making the money (we owe them anyway for all that cash Bush borrowed after our surplus money he blew ran out). The important part... and a key component behind C4C, is that it is putting Americans back to work.

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At what cost?

 

For how long?

 

Why not just write a check for $4500 to every household in the United States?

 

If that money doesn't get used to pay down personal debts, you know the entitlement looter crowd will go out and buy things they couldn't afford before any ways.

 

SUVs, CUVs, Hybrids!

 

Big screens! DVDs! DVRs!

 

That operation you've always needed!

 

With a $4500 check in my hands, I could buy a sh!t ton of lottery tickets.

 

My rather flamboyant reply will earn me some rebukes, but I don't fukken care. I've always believed that to jolt or surge the economy is to get people out there spending frivolously.

 

Better yet... pool the money to pay down the national deficit.

[timesjoke]

 

Better yet... pool the money to pay down the national deficit.

 

Reducing inflation helps everyone

[phreakwars]

I've always believed that to jolt or surge the economy is to get people out there spending frivolously

You mean like make major purchases like cars?

 

As for our tax payer dollars paying for it... No biggy. How much of that $4500 gets pumped back into the system VIA taxes on the new vehicle? In my state, your looking at a good $1500 or so on a $20,000 vehicle.

 

Right now my wife (who makes seats for the Ford Escape) is on overtime, scheduled for it, well into NEXT FUKKING SUMMER, and they're looking for more help because not only do they need to restock the dealers, they need to work on next years models. But on the other hand, we have a different type of factory in town that is shutting down leaving 220 people without jobs. I'll gladly contribute $4500 to keep my wife and others in my community, working steady hours instead of the 30something hours they were getting.

 

As for the dealers not getting paid yet... like I said before... it's been a fukking MONTH since C4C started...BIG DEAL.

 

I love that comparison to health care, your basically saying the government couldn't run it right because it will be so popular. You call THAT a rebuttal?

 

Nobody is in the entitlement crowd here, it's simply stimulating the economy by giving people jobs, which in turn gives them more money to spend, which in turn, gives someone else business.

 

WELL worth the $4500 investment.

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[RoyalOrleans]

You mean like make major purchases like cars?

 

Not while they're giving them away! Go to any dealership and the average Joe Bad Credit can roll out in a brand new car, sure he will have inflated payments, maybe a balloon payment at the end of the loan, or he might just have a repoman take it away.

 

As for our tax payer dollars paying for it... No biggy. How much of that $4500 gets pumped back into the system VIA taxes on the new vehicle? In my state, your looking at a good $1500 or so on a $20,000 vehicle.

 

Oooo.... nice.

 

Right now my wife (who makes seats for the Ford Escape) is on overtime, scheduled for it, well into NEXT FUKKING SUMMER, and they're looking for more help because not only do they need to restock the dealers, they need to work on next years models. But on the other hand, we have a different type of factory in town that is shutting down leaving 220 people without jobs. I'll gladly contribute $4500 to keep my wife and others in my community, working steady hours instead of the 30something hours they were getting.

 

All of your little speech would matter, if you were paying attention.

 

As for the dealers not getting paid yet... like I said before... it's been a fukking MONTH since C4C started...BIG DEAL.

 

I know! Those stingy old greedy bastards wanting to pay some bills, payroll, and the like!

 

Will the greed ever stop?

 

I love that comparison to health care, your basically saying the government couldn't run it right because it will be so popular. You call THAT a rebuttal?

 

Ohh... it will be popular. Don't get me wrong. Every disgusting fat body from here to fukken California will jump on that bandwagon.

 

The comparison is a simple one and it is a legitimate rebuttal. The government has absolutely positively no incentive for doing a great job in an efficient manner. The government has absolutely no reason to be honest and forthright. The government has absolutely no motive to make a profit.

 

Your health will be in the government's hands and that can be compared to the dealerships who have their livelihood in the government's hands.

 

Nobody is in the entitlement crowd here, it's simply stimulating the economy by giving people jobs, which in turn gives them more money to spend, which in turn, gives someone else business.

 

Wow... thanks for the basic economic lesson!

 

What good is the money that hard work, toil, tears, sweat, blood, and aching bones has earned if inflation and a trillion dollar deficit looms over us?

 

WELL worth the $4500 investment.

 

I'd almost give you the $4500 to take Basic Economics classes at your local community college or online... University of Phoenix --- Hook'a brutha up wid an ed-you-cashen.

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[ImWithStupid]

C4C and the $8,000 to home buyers does nothing more than created an artificial market, which gave us the bubble and bust economic situations of the past.

 

It's not sustainable and will pop.

 

Government programs don't create jobs, they create work. Unfortunately economically ignorant people don't know the difference.

 

Let's take these thousands of "jobs" that the Obama administration is taking credit for as a result of the spendulus plan. On average they lasted 36 hours, but people were working and they could manipulate the statistics.

[timesjoke]

You mean like make major purchases like cars?

 

And less cars sold later so it is a wash, no improvement at all, your just robbing peter (sales months down the road) to pay paul (extra sales today).

 

 

As for our tax payer dollars paying for it... No biggy. How much of that $4500 gets pumped back into the system VIA taxes on the new vehicle? In my state, your looking at a good $1500 or so on a $20,000 vehicle.

 

And those same taxes collected if nothing is done, just collected over several months instead of in one month. So there is no gain in tax funds but there is a huge increase in Government spending without any way of paying for it because we are broke.........I call that a biggy.

 

 

 

Right now my wife (who makes seats for the Ford Escape) is on overtime, scheduled for it, well into NEXT FUKKING SUMMER, and they're looking for more help because not only do they need to restock the dealers, they need to work on next years models. But on the other hand, we have a different type of factory in town that is shutting down leaving 220 people without jobs. I'll gladly contribute $4500 to keep my wife and others in my community, working steady hours instead of the 30something hours they were getting.

 

So as long as it keeps your wife working, screw everyone else.......typical Liberal/Union thinking. Your wife gets overtime, other workers get fired and end up on welfare and unemployment......a net loss on Government tax dollars right there.

 

 

 

As for the dealers not getting paid yet... like I said before... it's been a fukking MONTH since C4C started...BIG DEAL.

 

If you provide a service to a customer do you expect to wait 30, 60, or even 90 days to be paid?

 

 

I love that comparison to health care, your basically saying the government couldn't run it right because it will be so popular. You call THAT a rebuttal?

 

Hell yes it is a rebuttal.

 

It is popular because it is "free money" and once your giving away free insurance and medical treatments there will be a flood of people to sign up, get in line and get their free treatments but the real point is not how popular it is and your completely missing that point..........The Government never plans enough ahead, and it guesses way, way low on costs in "EVERYTHING" they do.

 

The Government does not have anyone who is qualified to run something like this, anyone qualified would never work for the Government.

 

Nobody is in the entitlement crowd here, it's simply stimulating the economy by giving people jobs, which in turn gives them more money to spend, which in turn, gives someone else business.

 

WELL worth the $4500 investment.

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Well that is certainly a very childish understanding of economics, but it leaves most of the real things out of the equasion, such as inflation that gobbles up most of the positive gain caused by the blind spending on a deficit. The overhead of a completely inneficient Government entitity is another. The swap off when you artifically stimulate one area BUT NOT ANOTHER.

 

 

 

Give you an example: The program causes a family to rush their plans of buying a new car to replace an older one so they can take advantage of the "free money". But, they were not ready so they have to scratch up the downpayment money (finance companies still wanted to see at least $500 down cash) and let's not forget the huge difference in cost for insurance to go from an older paid off car with basic insurance to full coverage insurance on a new car.

 

This family has gone from a normal spending family for all things like entertainment and such is now suddenly reduced to living very lean and spending little each month that is not 100% needed.

 

 

Your short sighted boost actually causes longer term depression of the economy in many ways. Understanding that is what seperates most 'true' conservatives from the Liberals/Socialists who can only see the short term gains and ignore the long term harms of what they do.

[RoyalOrleans]

WELL worth the $4500 investment.

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Kg2SvsI8Q]YouTube - Milton Friedman - Other People's Money[/ame]

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un4-eI1T71E]YouTube - The 4 Ways to Spend Money by Milton Friedman[/ame]

[hugo]

I miss Milton. IMO, the greatest American of the 20th Century.

[RoyalOrleans]

Video is a little choppy and the audio not great, so here is the full quote...

 

There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you?re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I?m not so careful about the content of the present, but I?m very careful about the cost. Then, I can spend somebody else?s money on myself. And if I spend somebody else?s money on myself, then I?m sure going to have a good lunch! Finally, I can spend somebody else?s money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else?s money on somebody else, I?m not concerned about how much it is, and I?m not concerned about what I get. And that?s government. And that?s close to 40% of our national income. - Milton Friedman

[timesjoke]

I have to admit I really did not pay much attention to the details of this C4C program other then to notice more tax money (we don't have) being blindly tossed out the window and the horrible lack of planning that went with it but a new string of complaints have been popping up that I never considered before.

 

 

This money must be claimed as income.

 

 

Now it makes sense once you think about it but I don't remember that aspect ever being advertised by anyone and now from a few places I have been reading from, some people are upset because it is causing some unintended results.

 

Many welfare programs and other things take into account your yearly income to qualify you and a surge of thousands of dollars could possibly cause an issue. Not reporting it can even be worse because the person conceiled the income, a kind of fraud.

 

 

Now I do agree on one thing, those who took advantage of the Government "free money" should have taken the time to look deeper into the details of the program so I don't really feel bad for them, but I do have to say that this is another great example of there being no such thing as a free ride.

[RoyalOrleans]

Cash for Clunkers Results Finally In: Taxpayers Paid $24,000 per Vehicle Sold, Reports Edmunds.com

[ImWithStupid]

Cash For Clunkers Explained

 

If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an

apparent "savings" of $1000.

 

However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th

(something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the

30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.

 

So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the

feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid

for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did

not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that

you will now be making..

 

But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the

dealer.

For example, every dealer in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all

the goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc

for $12,500 the month before the "cash for clunkers" program

started.

 

When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them

and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid

$3000 more than you would have the month before. (Honda, Toyota,

and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did).

 

So let's do the final tally here:

 

 

You traded in a car worth: $3500

You got a discount of: $4500

---------

Net so far +$1000

But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500

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Net so far: -$350

And you paid: $3000 more than the car was

selling for the month before

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Net -$3350

 

 

We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax,

etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the

5 years of interest on the car loan but lets just stop here.

 

So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on

the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car

dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along

with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies.

The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away

the month before. And the poor stupid consumer got saddled with

even more debt that they cannot afford.

 

Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe Consumer that he was

getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" when in fact

Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350

for the privilege.

[phreakwars]

Well, thanks for the OPINION piece from answerology.com written in 2009, but lets look at the reality:

 

http://money.cnn.com...nies/autosales/

 

 

GM, Ford post sales gains while Toyota struggles

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Auto sales in November were significantly improved from the dismal results posted a year ago by automakers, but remain near historic lows.Taking seasonal sales swings into account, the sales rate for November works out to annual sales of 12.3 million vehicles, the highest rate since the cash for clunkers sugar rush of August 2009.

 

And it's also just about the level of sales needed to replace broken down cars being taken off the road, a sign of lackluster demand.

 

GM sales were up 11% year over year, while Ford came through with a nearly 20% rise. Toyota's sales eased 3.2%.

 

The overall numbers are an encouraging sign that the recovery is taking hold, and consumers are once again confident enough to purchase big ticket items, said Jesse Toprak, vice president of industry trends at TrueCar.com.

 

Then there is also THIS recent piece: http://www.salon.com..._signs_continue

 

If you need more, there is also THIS search: http://www.google.com/search?q=Cash+for+Clunkers+Results&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbs=nws:1,qdr:m&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=L20DTZeVO8qcnwfux-HlDQ&ved=0CBkQpwU

 

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