Obamacare dead?

[timesjoke]

I am seeing more and more democrats who are bailing on Obamacare and while Obama and the rest of the liberals have been trying to make it sound like Republicans are the blockers, it turns out they do not even have their fellow Liberals under control and more "facts" are starting to come out that shows there is not as much support fot it as Obama has claimed from places like doctors.

 

 

Yes, the American Medical Association has endorsed Obamacare, but when we look closer, we are finding out that this is just like the support from AARP where the buracrats of the group signed on with promises from Obama, but their members do not necessarily share the views of their groups that are trying to speak for them:

 

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My brother in law is a doctor and he agrees that government controlled healthcare either directly or indirectly will cause a lot of harm. He mentioned the same thing this new polling touched on where a massive number of doctors are maybe not "old" but are not young either and dealing with the mess will not be pleasant so many will just decide to not get involved with it at all and if that means they have to retire early, so be it.

 

 

In general most Americans oppose Obamacare, 55% are against it, 42% support it. The biggest swing against Obama are independants, the same people who gave Obama the Presidency.

 

 

The things that seem to have turned more Americans away from Obamacare was not just the obvious issues that nobody including Obama will even address (like how it is impossible for it to be ?deficit neutral?) but also the way the liberals are painting anyone who does not blindly follow Obama as racists, fake protesters, gangs, etc, is pissing people off.

 

This Country has had it's racist problems, but trying to paint "everyone" as racists just because they do not agree with Obamacare is simply wrong. Americans still see ourselves as good. Trying to say Americans are racists just because they do not agree with Obama is what I believe is the last straw.

 

 

I predict right now that playing the race card has killed any government run plan, Obama has gambled big and lost in my opinion. I may be proven wrong, but this is my prediction based on how I see even Democrats that are trying to get away from this abuse of the race card.

 

 

 

Agree?

 

Disagree?

[RoyalOrleans]

The Democrats seem to have a new strategy when it comes to their precious government option (they call it a "public option," but it's government through and through). The new tactic? Just don't talk about it. I'm sure if you got your copy of the Democrat talking points for the Sunday talk shows, you would see "downplay the government plan" as the headliner. I guess they figure that the less they themselves talk about it, the less you are to protest it. Maybe they think you will even forget?

 

Make no mistake .. the government option is absolutely crucial to the Democrats. Here's why. This IS NOT about making sure the American people get healthcare. This is ALL about making sure the government controls the process. The very purpose of the government option is to present the private insurance companies with an opponent in the marketplace which they cannot compete against. The very purpose of the government option is to run the private insurance companies out of business. How, after all, do you compete with a company that doesn't have to make a profit and that will always ultimately be backed up by the taxpayers?

 

When that happens Obama proudly announces that the dishonest, greedy insurance companies couldn't stand up to the honesty and integrity of the government operation, and clearly the only just result would be for the government to run everything.

[timesjoke]

Of course your right RO, even Bender agreed that the insurance companies needed to be eliminated completely and that interview with Obama admitting it would take several years is also very clear.

 

 

The problem is, the public woke up and started asking questions, questions the liberals didn't have any answers to. Obama promised in one of his town meetings to sit down and go line by line with anyone who wanted to and answer all questions.......so about 6 congressmen have taken him up on his offer. For the past two weeks they have been sending requests to the whitehouse asking for Obama to fulfill that promise and go line by line with him.............

 

Obama has not even responded to their requests, not even a form letter saying he is busy right now, he is just completely ignoring them.

 

 

I truly believe that enough people have complained to make the less radical democrats back off the government option to include the co-op's. That is why Obama is now playing the race card, he knows he does not have the support in congress to pass anything he really wants so his last option is to play the race card.

 

I guess he sees himself as having failed either way so he has nothing else to lose but I believe he is unestimating the American people and how much he is now losing forever because of this race card.

[ImWithStupid]

The very purpose of the government option is to run the private insurance companies out of business. How, after all, do you compete with a company that doesn't have to make a profit and that will always ultimately be backed up by the taxpayers?

 

 

In other words, just like SSI, Medicare, Post Office, AmTrak, etc... come equiped with perpetual "bailouts".

[timesjoke]

In other words, just like SSI, Medicare, Post Office, AmTrak, etc... come equiped with perpetual "bailouts".

 

 

That is one interesting way of looking at it.

 

Each time these things were set into motion the estimates of what they would cost were very, very low compared to what they actually ended up being so with our Government saying this will cost 1 trillion dollars, using history as a guide that means it will actually cost about 4 trillion dollars and that is just the first ten years.

 

Do you guys think they intentionally downplay the cost to get these things passed or do you think they are just not smart enough to put a real pricetag on them?

[timesjoke]

As part of my point that support is falling apart I offer this example:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7ak__MGyw]YouTube - Obama Goes Toe-To-Toe With Stephanopoulos On "Tax Increases"[/ame]

 

George Stephanopoulos is about the only Liberal who I have seen who has offered Obama any hard questions on his policies, I found more respect for this man with this "tax" question.

 

 

Of course it is a new tax if the Governemnt is forcing you to pay more money you do not want to spend and there is a huge difference between car insurance and health insurance requirements. Driving a car is a Privilege, having insurance is part of the responsibility of car ownership for your driving Privilege.

 

 

Living is not a Privilege, so why are Liberals wanting to force Americans to pay for their live as if it were a Privilege to be allowed to live?

[RoyalOrleans]

As part of my point that support is falling apart I offer this example:

 

 

George Stephanopoulos is about the only Liberal who I have seen who has offered Obama any hard questions on his policies, I found more respect for this man with this "tax" question.

 

 

Of course it is a new tax if the Governemnt is forcing you to pay more money you do not want to spend and there is a huge difference between car insurance and health insurance requirements. Driving a car is a Privilege, having insurance is part of the responsibility of car ownership for your driving Privilege.

 

 

Living is not a Privilege, so why are Liberals wanting to force Americans to pay for their live as if it were a Privilege to be allowed to live?

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNP5YXJYeL0&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Obama And George Stephanopoulos Spar On The Individual Mandate[/ame]

 

A bad plan is a bad plan .. and there's no way for Obama to dress this one up. People aren't buying it, and maybe that is because the people don't believe him. Like this, for example ... Obama told ABC that requiring individuals to have health insurance, or fining them in the amount of $3,000 if they fail to do so, doesn't amount to a tax increase. He says, "For us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase ... Right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase."

 

First of all, let's address this comparison to the car insurance industry. We had heard this line repeatedly from Obama and his team. I can't understand why some of the brilliant minds in the media haven't done this already. Auto insurance and health insurance are two very different animals. You can start with the simple fact that driving is a choice. No one is forcing you to get a driver's license or a car.

 

Furthermore, so long as you keep your motor vehicle on your private property no insurance is needed in most states. You can drive your car or truck all over your farm, ranch, backyard or any property you own ... so long as it doesn't show up on a public highway you don't need to insure it. Auto insurance is a contractual arrangement between people who use public highways. You don't have to use the highway, but if you do you contract with other's who do to insure your vehicle.

 

With Obama's plan, the very fact that you're drawing breath is all that is needed for the government to step forward, put that "omnipresent gun" to your head, and say "Buy health insurance, or else pay the $3,000 fine"

 

And if you don't pay the fine? What then? Are they going to put you in jail? Are they going to seize your bank accounts? One thing you can be sure of: The punishment the government cooks up for you miscreants who don't obey the government's mandate to purchase health insurance will certainly be more serious than the punishment that has been dealt out to Charlie Rangel for his tax evasion and avoidance shenanigans.

 

Now, back to this idea that this would not be a tax increase. I guess it all boils down to how you define the word "tax." If you will recall during the campaign, Barack Obama promised that he wouldn't raise taxes on 95% of Americans (even though half of Americans don't pay any income taxes). He then raised taxes on cigarettes. The dumber you are the poorer you are, and the poorer you are the more likely it is that you will be a smoker. So was the cigarette tax hike a tax on the very 95% of Americans that Obama said he would leave alone? Of course it was. The left will tell you, though, that it is the cigarettes that are being taxed .. not the people.

 

Webster's Dictionary has a definition of a tax. George Stephanopoulos pulled it out and used it on PrezBO yesterday: "tax"--"a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes." How does Obama's mandate NOT constitute a tax? Ditto for the penalty!

 

Obama's response to Stephanopoulos seems to be "Look, if I say it's not a tax, it's not a tax. I won. I'm the president. I get to define the terms, and when the government requires people to spend money on a particular product or face a fine .. it's not a tax."

 

Elections have consequences. One of the consequences of this one is that we now have to completely redefine the word "tax" in our vocabulary to make sure that nobody can ever say Obama raised taxes on those 95% of Americans he vowed to leave alone.

 

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that, my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

 

Dr. Adrian Pierce Rogers (September 12, 1931 - November 15, 2005) of Love Worth Finding Ministries, Pastor Emeritus of Bellevue Baptist Church.

[ImWithStupid]

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[Ahhlee]

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Hahahahahaha! Stoopid Kanye.

[timesjoke]

That was pretty funny

[ImWithStupid]

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[timesjoke]

Well to be fair most politicians are great actors, but Obama, that guy is something special. I thought slick Willie was a good political speaker, but Obama is the real meaning behind a saying I have used for most of my life:

 

"You can make your mouth say anything."

 

Obama pulled off the best bait and switch ever attempted on the American populace. He ran for office under the concept of "change" and "hope", he ran as a moderate who would bring people together and find common ground to accomplish the goals of redefining the way things are done in Washington for the better.

 

 

Put simply, Obama lied. I ask every supporter of Obama to tell me what has been changed in Washington. What ways has Obama found common ground with both parties? What new transparancy has Obama brought to Washington as he promised?

 

 

Remember the promise of new bills being posted for public view before they are voted on?

 

 

I find it interesting that many Liberals chant "Bush Lied" concerning his support of action based on the intelligence he had before him when all the powerful Liberals who saw the exact same information agreed with what Bush decided so there was no actual lie with Bush, the available evidence was all Bush had to go on so he did not lie.

 

 

Obama on the other hand has information that proves what he says is impossible, but he keeps telling the lie anyway. Let's take the promise of Obamacare being "deficit neutral". Every expert who has responded, including those completely in Obama's pocket all agree that there is no possible way for this legislation to be "deficit neutral".

 

 

So why keep telling that lie?