Perceptions

[timesjoke]

I posted this at the Jungle but I believe I was banned here when I first wrote this so in reply to Ali's comment about not remembering it I wanted to post this here:

 

 

At one time, man believed the world was flat.

 

At one time man believed the Earth was the only planet in the universe.

 

At one time Man knew nothing about radiation.

 

At one time Man did not know things like bacteria existed.

 

 

These are a few things offered as examples of one thing, not science itself but man's perception. Sure science has given us new methods of perceptions, but it is the perception within that really matters, not so much the reality.

 

Man has always doubted what he could not see but I ask a question, did bacteria not exist during the time man was not able to perceive it?

 

Of course not. Man has come a long way to be sure, but there are still men who refuse to believe things exist if they cannot perceive these things. I am not saying their wrong necessarily, but what I am saying is their being incapable of perceiving God does not prove he does not exist. Just like the Earth was round all along, even though man could not perceive of it's roundness up to a certain time.

 

We are fooled by our perceptions all the time, we are even entertained by those who can trick our perceptions by people like magicians and even actors who play a false role in a believable way. Our minds color our perceptions with what we expect to see. Science has proven that there is actually a delay between what we see and it being defined by our mind so we sort of 'see into the future' with our expectations in order to do things like hit a baseball with a bat.

 

Then there is the perception of trust. How many people get scammed by those we think we can trust due to false perceptions? A loving husband, a great lawyer, a trustworty investor, a smooth talking realtor, a nice car salesman, a famous D2 duel master, all these perceptions put people into harms way every day. But we still look for more and more perceptions, more things that can fool us.

 

Then we ask why are we so easily fooled by our perceptions? The answer is because our perceptions are governed by our minds and we have a subconscious part of our mind that modifies our perceptions without us even knowing it.

 

 

Maybe our perceptions are not the best judge of how things really are in this world.

 

 

I originally wrote this about faith and the existence of God but it holds true for just about everything in life.

[wez]

 

These are a few things offered as examples of one thing, not science itself but man's perception. Sure science has given us new methods of perceptions, but it is the perception within that really matters, not so much the reality.

 

 

Then you say..

 

Maybe our perceptions are not the best judge of how things really are in this world.

 

 

So you're saying our perceptions are not to be trusted.. which I agree with.. so.. don't ya think you got that statement backwards, Rocky?

 

 

Wouldn't it be the reality as it is.. whether we understand/believe/know it or not that really matters and not our perceptions.. which according to you cannot be trusted?

[Ahhlee]

These are a few things offered as examples of one thing, not science itself but man's perception. Sure science has given us new methods of perceptions, but it is the perception within that really matters, not so much the reality.

 

Then you say..

 

 

Maybe our perceptions are not the best judge of how things really are in this world.

 

So you're saying our perceptions are not to be trusted.. which I agree with.. so.. don't ya think you got that statement backwards, Rocky?

 

 

Wouldn't it be the reality as it is.. whether we understand/believe/know it or not that really matters and not our perceptions.. which according to you cannot be trusted?

 

I'm with wez...you're all over the place.

 

So it is the perception within that really matters...not so much the reality, but that perception shouldn't be trusted as reality.

 

Ok.

 

Nothing like arguing both sides of the coin against yourself...lol.

[Hack]

?There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception?

 

Aldous Huxley

[timesjoke]

Well you completely miss the point, perceptions may not be reality, but they are the only thing us humans have to make our decisions on.

 

Germs did exist before methods were invented to let us perceive them but without that ability to perceive them, we could never behave as if they did exist.

 

It is like saying if we knew the bad guy was in the back seat we would have never gotten into the car, you can't look backwards to figure out what you might have done if your perceptions had been different because the action has already happened.

 

I know it is a complicated concept but if you put some time into it I am sure you will be able to grasp the difference between what is reality and what is perception and the most important part, how we behave because of this difference.

 

 

 

So just as a recap, in one part I am taking about how we as humans see things, in the other part I am talking about reality outside of how people see them, that is why it may seem a contradiction but in reality it is not.

 

 

 

 

Interesting this is the first forum where people could not understand the point I was making, I have had hundreds of people from all walks of life all offer comments and some compliments and yet you two can't grasp the concept?

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, could you not quote Wez speaking to me please, I have no desire to ever see a single word he has to say to me, I am done with 5 year old mentalities. The way you went out of your way to quote that it is obvious you were doing that on purpose Ali.

 

 

If you have something to say then say it, I am sure you don't need someone like Wez to speak for you.

[Ahhlee]

Well you completely miss the point, perceptions may not be reality, but they are the only thing us humans have to make our decisions on.

 

Germs did exist before methods were invented to let us perceive them but without that ability to perceive them, we could never behave as if they did exist.

 

It is like saying if we knew the bad guy was in the back seat we would have never gotten into the car, you can't look backwards to figure out what you might have done if your perceptions had been different because the action has already happened.

 

I know it is a complicated concept but if you put some time into it I am sure you will be able to grasp the difference between what is reality and what is perception and the most important part, how we behave because of this difference.

 

 

 

So just as a recap, in one part I am taking about how we as humans see things, in the other part I am talking about reality outside of how people see them, that is why it may seem a contradiction but in reality it is not.

 

 

 

 

Interesting this is the first forum where people could not understand the point I was making, I have had hundreds of people from all walks of life all offer comments and some compliments and yet you two can't grasp the concept?

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, could you not quote Wez speaking to me please, I have no desire to ever see a single word he has to say to me, I am done with 5 year old mentalities. The way you went out of your way to quote that it is obvious you were doing that on purpose Ali.

 

 

If you have something to say then say it, I am sure you don't need someone like Wez to speak for you.

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you posted this simply to get your cok sucked and not because you wanted to engage in an actual discussion over the subject matter or your presentation of it.

 

My bad.

 

The concept is, quite frankly, not that complicated, nor is it anything new. But if you want to liken yourself to the great thinkers of our age for putting down the "perception vs. reality" debate here on our little e-forum, go right ahead. Pat yourself on the back for your efforts, too!!!!

 

But just a thought...you might not want to completely contradict yourself within your own thesis. It kind of makes the whole argument fall flat.

 

Just sayin'.

[timesjoke]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you posted this simply to get your cok sucked and not because you wanted to engage in an actual discussion over the subject matter or your presentation of it.

 

My bad.

 

No you were angry from the other thread and decided to take a shot at me in this thread, you do it all the time.

 

 

The concept is, quite frankly, not that complicated, nor is it anything new. But if you want to liken yourself to the great thinkers of our age for putting down the "perception vs. reality" debate here on our little e-forum, go right ahead. Pat yourself on the back for your efforts, too!!!!

 

But just a thought...you might not want to completely contradict yourself within your own thesis. It kind of makes the whole argument fall flat.

 

Just sayin'.

 

First you say the two concepts are not complicated or new then you say it was a contradiction, make up your mind.

 

There is no contradiction, one is about the perceived reality, and the other is about actual reality, in your need to be critical at any cost your trying to jamb the two completely seperate parts to one so you can claim there is a contradiction.

 

 

 

 

This is what I am talking about with you Ali, you can't debate anything without making personal attacks.

 

This is the point I am making in the other thread, I make a post with ideas to discuss and you immediately make personal flames, you don't even try to hide it really, you just expect everyone to go along with it because it is me who your being this crazy with.

[ImWithStupid]

Perception is alway reality, until facts prove otherwise.

[timesjoke]

Perception is alway reality, until facts prove otherwise.

 

Even then people will tend to resist that new reality because the existing reality is difficult to let go. How many people still believe in the promised "change" that we will never see for example?

 

I guess my real point is we hacve two battles to fight, one of trying to understand what reality "is" and the other to even get our own minds to accept the new ideas when it seems to be in our nature to not accept new things when we already have a belief in something. How long did people still believe the world is flat even after people had sailed around the Earth for example?

[emkay64]

Reality is fluid and is defined by your belief structure. Your version of what is real is only your perception of it, not what is so.

 

There is no such thing as reality. There is only ?your? reality which is essentially your perception. What you believe to be true is only as true as your worldly experience and it doesn?t go any further than that.

 

For example...Human life is seen as very precious on Earth because people believe that humans are the top of the food chain. Other forms of life take second fiddle. It?s only a belief , but the truth is many of these other life forms sustain us and were it not for them we wouldn?t be around anymore. That is more realistic than thinking that humans are superior.

[RoyalOrleans]

Well you completely miss the point, perceptions may not be reality, but they are the only thing us humans have to make our decisions on.

 

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz! Then why didn't you say that in the original post?

[timesjoke]

Well your talking about personal reality and that is why I made the two completely seperate points, one personal and the other reality. Germs always existed in reality even when we did not have the ability to perceive they were there for example.

 

 

On a personal level we will act based on our own perceptions of reality but just because one or many people share a certain perspective, that does not mean they are right. Consider how many Muslims including the rulers of Iran say the Holocaust never happened. Are they right?

 

Just as important, just because someone does not perceive something that does not mean it does not exist.

 

 

 

edit, this was in reply to emkay

[RoyalOrleans]

The universe is full of random, chaotic events that you and I, in all of our arrogance, have absolutely no control over.

[eddo]

Reality = TRUTH = doesn't change.

 

Perceptions = opinions = can change.

 

You should listen to wez on this one. If he knows anything, it's TRUTH. Right wez?

[ImWithStupid]

Reality can't be determined ultimately. What is known today to be factual reality, is only one immense discovery away from being wrong.

[ImWithStupid]

Reality can't be determined ultimately. What is known today to be factual reality, is only one immense discovery away from being wrong.

 

Kind of like TJ said before...

 

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow. ~ Kay (Tommy Lee Jones in Men In Black)

[timesjoke]

Reality can't be determined ultimately. What is known today to be factual reality, is only one immense discovery away from being wrong.

 

Some things we can know for sure, germs do exist for example, their properties and abilities may change but we can say for sure they exist and not that long ago we didn't even know that for sure.

[snafu]

As for perception of a loving husband it can change with knowledge and time. If the loving husband was a loving husband until one day he was tempted of infidelity and played on it the perception in the beginning was right.

[timesjoke]

As for perception of a loving husband it can change with knowledge and time. If the loving husband was a loving husband until one day he was tempted of infidelity and played on it the perception in the beginning was right.

 

I am not sure I follow you, are you speaking from the view of the husband, the wife, the temptation, or the raw reality outside of perceptions of humans?

 

 

1. The husbands point of view could be he still sees himself as a loving husband who made a mistake or even saw nothing wrong with feeding his animal passions, some believe sex and love are not related.

 

 

2. If the wife was unknowing of the incident then her perceptions of the husband have not changed with new data to base it on, if she found out she might even retreat into denial or even wave it off as nothing, again some don't apply a connection to sexual relationships and love. Then again she could feel horribly betrayed and embarassed, that is a complex one there.

 

 

3. The temptation again may see it as a healthy expression of sexuality and no big deal. She might be trying to "steal" the man away too, I seem to remember a woman writing a book to other women on how to steal another woman's man away from her. If this is the case she might see the man as her "potential" loving husband but this is one I will never understand, what makes these people think the person will be more loyal to them than their current mate?????

 

 

4. In reality is there a such thing as a loving husband? Does love really exist or is it just a figment of our imagination? Does their viewpoints change this reality? If some believe sex with other people is okay, then was that perception sort of a wild card on the basic rule or can there ever be a basic rule where feelings and relationships are concerned?

[ImWithStupid]

Some things we can know for sure, germs do exist for example, their properties and abilities may change but we can say for sure they exist and not that long ago we didn't even know that for sure.

 

 

Really? Do they?

 

Have you ever seen the movie The Matrix?

[Ahhlee]

Really? Do they?

 

Have you ever seen the movie The Matrix?

 

Yep. Their existence could be disproven tomorrow.

 

Then what?

 

Hell, we could just be the figment of some sleeping adolescent's wet dream for all we know.

[eddo]

Hell, we could just be the figment of some sleeping adolescent's wet dream for all we know.

 

That poor kid...

[hugo]

For example...Human life is seen as very precious on Earth because people believe that humans are the top of the food chain. Other forms of life take second fiddle. It?s only a belief , but the truth is many of these other life forms sustain us and were it not for them we wouldn?t be around anymore. That is more realistic than thinking that humans are superior.

 

Send us a nudie pic, PETA person.

[timesjoke]

Really? Do they?

 

Have you ever seen the movie The Matrix?

 

The Matrix is a movie Joe, just saying in case you didn't know.

 

 

Besides, if you want to consider the move as a real possibility, then the computers still took the basic realities (before the big battle) to create their computer world (the Matrix). They had birds and rain and such recreated in the image of the real world so if we are currently in a Matrix world, us now seeing that there are germs most likley germs existed before we were in this Matrix too.