So is Obama a Muslim?

[snafu]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY]YouTube - Obama Admits He Is A Muslim[/ame]

[ImWithStupid]

No. The idea is beyond over done at this time. I don't believe President Obama really has any kind of religion.

[timesjoke]

I agree that Obama does not have any belief in a "higher power" but his loyalties seem to be to Muslims, there can be many reasons for this but reasons don't really matter, actions do.

[Chi]

 

I agree that Obama does not have any belief in a "higher power" but his loyalties seem to be to Muslims, there can be many reasons for this but reasons don't really matter, actions do.

 

Omg... He does believe in a higher power and he is a confirmed Christian. I don't know what else the man has to do to get this through people's heads. He's already stated this point blank and directly.

 

TJ - That is your opinion. In my opinion, his actions don't point any loyalties to Muslims. He is just fair all around.

[ImWithStupid]

He is just fair all around.

 

 

That's halarious!! You should do stand up.

[Chi]

That's halarious!! You should do stand up.

 

On second thought, he may be a little biased sometimes, as all of us are at times (I'm referring to the whole black professor thing.) He's human. But he does try. I think that is why he said that comment about not jumping into conclusions regarding the Fort Hood shootings. He shouldn't have said that imo, but he did.

 

Sometimes political correctness harms. Case in point - Fort Hood: Hasan's Warning Signs Ignored, Say Classmates - Yahoo! News

[timesjoke]

 

Omg... He does believe in a higher power and he is a confirmed Christian. I don't know what else the man has to do to get this through people's heads. He's already stated this point blank and directly.

 

He also stated he was bringing "change" to the Whitehouse to include more transparancy but to date, his administration is less transparent then the two Presidents before him, I can go on for days at the lies Obama has told and promises broken but that is not my point.

 

Obama is a career politician who "always" does things that he feels will further his career and agenda. He was amember of that anti-white church for most of his life because that is where someone wanting a career in public office (in Chicago) and is black had to go.

 

Bill Clinton did the same thing, hell Hitler did the same thing to use the appearance of religious beliefs to gain political power when he was actually a life long Atheist.

 

 

TJ - That is your opinion. In my opinion, his actions don't point any loyalties to Muslims. He is just fair all around.

 

I see you backed off that a little bit but you still miss the point that Obama had no problem calling a white guy who arrested his friend a racist but if a Muslim screams praises to allah and kills a lot of infidels, he refuses to call that man a radical or a terrorist........why is it he is so fast to defend Muslims and put down Christians and even America who is at it's core a Christian Nation?

 

Obama always seems to be in apology mode when speaking about America to anyone else in the world, that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sure, America has made mistakes but why is it Obama is only willing to speak of that and never speaks on the great things America does as well?

 

 

 

Oh, don't forget how he refuses to send the requested extra troops to Afganistan to help fight the Muslim extremists there.

[Chi]

He also stated he was bringing "change" to the Whitehouse to include more transparancy but to date, his administration is less transparent then the two Presidents before him, I can go on for days at the lies Obama has told and promises broken but that is not my point.

 

Obama is a career politician who "always" does things that he feels will further his career and agenda. He was amember of that anti-white church for most of his life because that is where someone wanting a career in public office (in Chicago) and is black had to go.

 

Bill Clinton did the same thing, hell Hitler did the same thing to use the appearance of religious beliefs to gain political power when he was actually a life long Atheist.

 

 

 

 

I see you backed off that a little bit but you still miss the point that Obama had no problem calling a white guy who arrested his friend a racist but if a Muslim screams praises to allah and kills a lot of infidels, he refuses to call that man a radical or a terrorist........why is it he is so fast to defend Muslims and put down Christians and even America who is at it's core a Christian Nation?

 

Obama always seems to be in apology mode when speaking about America to anyone else in the world, that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sure, America has made mistakes but why is it Obama is only willing to speak of that and never speaks on the great things America does as well?

 

 

Oh, don't forget how he refuses to send the requested extra troops to Afganistan to help fight the Muslim extremists there.

 

TJ - Are you forgetting Obama is 50% white? He's never spoken of any of the great things America does well? He has never said anything positive about his country? Think about that and how blatanly inaccurate that is.

 

Regarding the troops, 34,000 vs 40,000 is not that bad. He is the President and it is his decision to make and ultimately decide.

[timesjoke]

TJ - Are you forgetting Obama is 50% white? He's never spoken of any of the great things America does well? He has never said anything positive about his country? Think about that and how blatanly inaccurate that is.

 

Regarding the troops, 34,000 vs 40,000 is not that bad. He is the President and it is his decision to make and ultimately decide.

 

What does his parentage have to do with beliefs?

 

Ever hear of John Walker Lindh?

 

Besides, I never said he was a muslim, just that his loyalties are with them. There can be many reasons for this to include so many of his formative years living among them that has him respecting Muslims more than anyone else if given a choice.

 

 

Ordering that trial for the terrorists in civilian court I believe shows it too. They would most likely get the death penalty in the military tribunal but that is not going to happen in civilian court, at least not for 20 years of appeals and such anyway and by then who cares?

 

 

 

Concerning the troops, how many Americans died while he refused to make a decision? Could more troops have saved lives? I guess we will never know will we?

[Chi]

What does his parentage have to do with beliefs?

 

Ever hear of John Walker Lindh?

 

Besides, I never said he was a muslim, just that his loyalties are with them. There can be many reasons for this to include so many of his formative years living among them that has him respecting Muslims more than anyone else if given a choice.

 

Ordering that trial for the terrorists in civilian court I believe shows it too. They would most likely get the death penalty in the military tribunal but that is not going to happen in civilian court, at least not for 20 years of appeals and such anyway and by then who cares?

 

 

Concerning the troops, how many Americans died while he refused to make a decision? Could more troops have saved lives? I guess we will never know will we?

 

You saying that his loyalties are with Muslims and that "that has him respecting Muslims more than anyone else if given a choice" is bull and just your opinion again. He refused to make a decision?...

[Chi]

Oh and btw way, TJ, where do you get that Obama ordered that the 9/11 terrorist trial be tried in civilian court? That was Attorney General Eric Holder's decision. In fact, on the contrary, Obama predicts the death penalty WILL be applied to him (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed) in civilian court. Again, you are confused.

[timesjoke]

You saying that his loyalties are with Muslims and that "that has him respecting Muslims more than anyone else if given a choice" is bull and just your opinion again. He refused to make a decision?...

 

He refused to make a "timely" decision that would have saved lives.

 

Is that better wording?

 

 

 

And why is it bull Chi? Has Obama ever bowed showing extra respect to a Christian leader? He bowed to the emperor of Japan, but he is not a Christian either. Obama bowed his lowest and most profoundly to the Saudi King. Maybe Obama is just anti Christian and whites and not really "for" anyone, I could buy that theory also. When he is married to a woman who says she has never been proud to be an American until he was elected President, that also speaks to his core values as to who he keeps close to his heart.

 

 

Most of his long time friends are radicals and they don't pay their taxes as good Americans.

 

As I said, I don't think he has any belief in a higher power, but he is excessively politically correct to the point he is bending over backwards to protect people like this terrorist from being executed without directly giving him a pardon that would kill him politically.......

 

And he refuses to call the Fort Hood terrorist a terrorist....

 

Why?

 

If not showing a trend against Christians and for Muslims or at least "not christians" then why do these things?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eric Holder works for Obama, he would not go against the wishes of his boss so clearly this is ordered by Obama. I said the same thing about those who worked for Bush, they did what Bush told them to do, bush was the boss.

 

In this case Obama is the boss and everyone appointed by Obama are doing exactly what Obama tells them to do, that is why they are appointed by him.

 

 

 

If these possitions were intended to be independant of the President they would be appointed by congress.

[Chi]

He refused to make a "timely" decision that would have saved lives.

 

Is that better wording?

 

 

 

And why is it bull Chi? Has Obama ever bowed showing extra respect to a Christian leader? He bowed to the emperor of Japan, but he is not a Christian either. Obama bowed his lowest and most profoundly to the Saudi King. Maybe Obama is just anti Christian and whites and not really "for" anyone, I could buy that theory also. When he is married to a woman who says she has never been proud to be an American until he was elected President, that also speaks to his core values as to who he keeps close to his heart.

 

Regarding the bowing bull , come on! Why is this even being made an issue of in the first place?? Do you ride along with every ridiculous thing the press concocts for story about Obama and those you don't like, even if they are ridiculous like this? So he is respectful and humble, since when is that wrong??

 

Regarding Michelle, her exact words were: ?People in this country are ready for change and hungry for a different kind of politics and ? for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback.? & ?For the first time in my adult lifetime, I?m really proud of my country ? not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change,? If anything, she said she IS proud to be an American. And technically, her adult life began in 1982, way before he was elected President so...

 

Also, Michelle and him are their own person. He is married to her, but they are still entitled to their own views and beliefs. Are you and your gf or your ex wife exactly the same with the exact same beliefs and views?

 

Most of his long time friends are radicals and they don't pay their taxes as good Americans.

 

Right... This is such bull, TJ. And even if that were true, that is irrelevant. Again, he is his own person. And there are people who are "not good Americans" who pay their taxes, so..???

 

As I said, I don't think he has any belief in a higher power, but he is excessively politically correct to the point he is bending over backwards to protect people like this terrorist from being executed without directly giving him a pardon that would kill him politically.......

 

I already told you he believes in a higher power, taken from his own words. There you go again, putting your opinions higher than from what is coming directly from the source. Don't begin being aggravating and irrational - YOU DO NOT KNOW PEOPLE BETTER THAN THEY KNOW THEMSELVES.

 

And he refuses to call the Fort Hood terrorist a terrorist....

 

Why?

 

If not showing a trend against Christians and for Muslims or at least "not christians" then why do these things?

 

Because he can and that's the way that he is and does things. I don't know why you are adamant that it is because of the way you say they are.

 

 

 

 

Eric Holder works for Obama, he would not go against the wishes of his boss so clearly this is ordered by Obama. I said the same thing about those who worked for Bush, they did what Bush told them to do, bush was the boss.

 

Not everyone does what Obama wants if they don't have to. Even if that were the case that is till not the same as being "ordered by Obama."

 

Regarding Bush, in retrospect, it seems that Cheney was the real boss and puppetmaster at many times. So...

In this case Obama is the boss and everyone appointed by Obama are doing exactly what Obama tells them to do, that is why they are appointed by him.

If these possitions were intended to be independant of the President they would be appointed by congress.[/

 

See my comments above about this. They apply here as well.

 

QUOTE]

[eddo]

Try the grape Chi, it's pretty good today.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Try the grape Chi, it's pretty good today.

 

a.k.a. "The purple kind"

[ImWithStupid]

Oh and btw way, TJ, where do you get that Obama ordered that the 9/11 terrorist trial be tried in civilian court? That was Attorney General Eric Holder's decision. In fact, on the contrary, Obama predicts the death penalty WILL be applied to him (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed) in civilian court. Again, you are confused.

 

 

That would be just a statement of ignorance. Holder may have made the recommendation, but he would not have proceeded without the approval of the President.

 

It's just as any other major decision by Obama, Stimulus, Cap and Tax, Healthcare... he's passing the buck.

 

He wants to be connected, but if it turns south, he leaves room to claim someone else is responsible.

[timesjoke]

Ya, the grape is very delicious Chi.

 

 

I don't want to 'irritate' you chi and get things going down the ugly road again but your twisting things completely, the bowing happened, it is not made up by the press, Obama has a life long record of surrounding himself with radicals and anti-american people like his wife and pastor of over 20 years. The "change" that was promised never happened so he lied just to gain power, so why is it difficult to believe he lies in other ways Chi? Tell me Chi, how has Obama change the tone in Washington as he promised? He promised a new tone of cooperation and reaching accross the asile and ending partisan politics.......remember?

 

Obama is the most partisan President America has ever had Chi, no room for comprimise, no room for alternatives, his way or your called a racist, is that "change" you can believe in"?

 

 

If Obama says it, that is "your' gospel? You can't conceive of the possibility he might have alterior motives?

 

 

I most of the time ignore words because of my personal saying "You can make your mouth say anything". I look at his actions and just about every action is to be very supportive of anyone who is not Christian.

 

Now we can both make judgement calls as to why, but the fact is he is doing it, so why do you think he is time and time again behaving in these ways to show extra respect and difference to Muslims and even a couple other non-christian (or jewish) groups/leaders?

 

 

 

 

 

Good post IWS, of course the President makes all of these decisions, the various appointments by the President are there to help him, not rule in his stead. They do what he wants them to do, and if they don't he removes them. If Holder was doing something Obama did not want to happen, Obama would remove him, so clearly this is what Obama wants.

[Chi]

Grape, purple grape? What am I missing here?

 

TJ - Let's agree to greatly disagree. We obviously see things very differently. I really don't feel like nor have the time to go around and around in circles about this. I'm not going to change your mind and neither are you to me.

[timesjoke]

Grape, purple grape? What am I missing here?

 

Ever hear the term, "drinking the koolaid"?

 

 

TJ - Let's agree to greatly disagree. We obviously see things very differently. I really don't feel like nor have the time to go around and around in circles about this. I'm not going to change your mind and neither are you to me.

 

I am cool with that, I guess my biggest issue is he has done the things he has done, but so many people act like he has not done them.

 

 

I might be inserting my own bias to come up with theories of "why" he has done these things like ordering Holder to give the 9/11 terrorists American judicial rights, but at least I am being curious enough to have these questions.

 

Why is it so many other people are just blindly following Obama and assuming Obama could never have negative agendas or be making a mistake? I think your a very smart person but even you think Holder made this decision against Obama's will, and that is very nieve, Holder is doing exactly what Obama wants him to do.

 

 

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~ Albert Einstein

[Chi]

Ever hear the term, "drinking the koolaid"?

 

 

That came to mind, but it was just put in a weird way. I'm picturing grapes and not koolaid the way that was presented.

 

I am cool with that, I guess my biggest issue is he has done the things he has done, but so many people act like he has not done them.

 

 

I might be inserting my own bias to come up with theories of "why" he has done these things like ordering Holder to give the 9/11 terrorists American judicial rights, but at least I am being curious enough to have these questions.

 

Why is it so many other people are just blindly following Obama and assuming Obama could never have negative agendas or be making a mistake? I think your a very smart person but even you think Holder made this decision against Obama's will, and that is very nieve, Holder is doing exactly what Obama wants him to do.

 

 

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~ Albert Einstein

 

Of course Obama makes mistakes, he's human. But I don't think he has negative intentions. And the Holder thing you said can very well be.

[timesjoke]

Of course Obama makes mistakes, he's human. But I don't think he has negative intentions. And the Holder thing you said can very well be.

 

Well good, we can agree on that much and so when a person makes a mistake in judgement, do you think their opinions or biases can be part of that decision? There must be "SOME" reason Obama is ordering something to be done that has never been done before.....right?

 

To me each of us Americans "earn" our rights, we not only pay the taxes that go to pay for our rights but we have lost countless lives in the forming and defense of our way of life to earn what we have.

 

 

In what way did the 9/11 terrorists "earn" American judicial rights?

[Chi]

Well good, we can agree on that much and so when a person makes a mistake in judgement, do you think their opinions or biases can be part of that decision? There must be "SOME" reason Obama is ordering something to be done that has never been done before.....right?

To me each of us Americans "earn" our rights, we not only pay the taxes that go to pay for our rights but we have lost countless lives in the forming and defense of our way of life to earn what we have.

 

 

In what way did the 9/11 terrorists "earn" American judicial rights?

 

"Never", that word again and used incorrectly again. TJ fyi, since 2001 alone, 195 terrorists have been convicted in civil courts vs a measly 3 in the military courts. Hm, I wonder which odds are better....

 

Here's a sampling of 1995 alone: Terrorism in the United States

 

You still think the same way?

[ImWithStupid]

"Never", that word again and used incorrectly again. TJ fyi, since 2001 alone, 195 terrorists have been convicted in civil courts vs a measly 3 in the military courts. Hm, I wonder which odds are better....

 

Here's a sampling of 1995 alone: Terrorism in the United States

 

You still think the same way?

 

 

I'd be willing to bet that not one of those 195, and I know none of your samples, were enemy combatants caught by the military.

 

All of those were law enforcement actions. There is a difference.

[timesjoke]

"Never", that word again and used incorrectly again. TJ fyi, since 2001 alone, 195 terrorists have been convicted in civil courts vs a measly 3 in the military courts. Hm, I wonder which odds are better....

 

Here's a sampling of 1995 alone: Terrorism in the United States

 

You still think the same way?

 

IWS already covered it, none of your examples originated in another Country as an enemy combatant. This will be the very first time an enemy combatant on foreign soil was given full American judicial rights when they were not entitled to them.

 

edit to add:

 

KSM has already admitted to his actions so under a military tribunal he is already guilty before the first comment is made. Under civilian courts his confession is not admissable and nothing he has ever said while captured can be used against him........they will have a more difficult time convicting him than you might think.

[Chi]

I'd be willing to bet that not one of those 195, and I know none of your samples, were enemy combatants caught by the military.

 

All of those were law enforcement actions. There is a difference.

 

Incorrect. And Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was captured by the Pakistani ISI and our CIA not the military.

 

IWS already covered it, none of your examples originated in another Country as an enemy combatant. This will be the very first time an enemy combatant on foreign soil was given full American judicial rights when they were not entitled to them.

 

edit to add:

 

KSM has already admitted to his actions so under a military tribunal he is already guilty before the first comment is made. Under civilian courts his confession is not admissable and nothing he has ever said while captured can be used against him........they will have a more difficult time convicting him than you might think.

 

IWS didn't cover anything as pointed out above. And if it's harder than I think, how have the civil courts managed to convict so many more terrorists than the military courts? I don't really care which court tries KSM as long as he is prosecuted and convicted to the fullest extent. Why do you?