Dinner and a chat

[timesjoke]

Last evening I told you guys I had to break out early because I had company comming over and we needed a few things. Well the dinner party served as a kind of round table between me and severl friends and what we had on our minds concerning the recent events in healthcare and we were fortunate enough to have a Doctor and a nursing director there along with one of my County commissioners and a school teacher, everyone else was either a spouse or a person involved in construction.

 

Each of us took turns talking about our hopes and fears for how things are going from this point and I was surprised at how even the school teacher agreed that there is no way this bill will be paid for using the existing numbers, there will be a required increase in funding from some other source. A couple people did say that the bill was worth it even with new and higher taxes because "something" had to be done. Some time was spent on various other things that could have been done but we got that was not really the point so we got the discussion back on track on what we do now with this new law.

 

 

The doctor made a point he made to me long ago but added more at the end and I would like to share that with you guys. Like my first conversation with him long ago, he related how each practice must keep a balance of patients, some with higher paying insurance, and some with low paying government payments. The balance allows a doctor to keep a possition in the middle once the low payments and the higher payments meet. His new point was that under this new law, it seems like this will be a "government option" because they have taken control of all insurance companies. The Government through the HHS will dictate how much insurance companies can charge, and how much they will reimburse for services. At first the two teirs will allow that balance of payments but as costs rise because insurance companies will be forced to pay out more in claims, and they will not be allowed to raise rates, the last thing they will be able to do is match the payouts the Government pays, essentially making all insurance companies exactly like Medicare.

 

What does this mean? Well it means the 'middle ground' most doctors need to stay in business will be gone, they will all have to either go out of business or transform into a kind of 'health department' style of business where it is all low end clinic style of treatments, long waiting lines and minimum wage workers. Now some people may think there is nothing wrong with that but he warned us that the real harm will come down the road as young people who are able to be doctors see how little money there is to be made and choose other careers. Why would someone choose to work 12 or more hours a day and have to maintain constant education if there is no way to make a good living? Then he mentioned how quality of care would be lost because all incentive to excell would have been eliminated. A great doctor and a crappy doctor will be paid the same money with few exceptions, those who will make the most money will be the doctors who can create the fastest 'cattle call' medical service, less time per patient means more patients each day, and more payments so the incentive will be for the doctor to make up his mind quickly on the diagnosis and move on to the next person.

 

The rest of the night was us talking about other issues like the mandate for business to provide insurance or pay penalties, or individuals being forced to get insurance or have their income tax returns taken away to pay their fines. And what of the mistakes?

 

 

Put simply we all agreed that new taxes are on the way, and the medical services we know now are going to change. Not right away because most of this does not happen for a few years but planning now is certainly a wise decision.

[emkay64]

Last evening I told you guys I had to break out early because I had company comming over and we needed a few things. Well the dinner party served as a kind of round table between me and severl friends and what we had on our minds concerning the recent events in healthcare and we were fortunate enough to have a Doctor and a nursing director there along with one of my County commissioners and a school teacher, everyone else was either a spouse or a person involved in construction.

 

Each of us took turns talking about our hopes and fears for how things are going from this point and I was surprised at how even the school teacher agreed that there is no way this bill will be paid for using the existing numbers, there will be a required increase in funding from some other source. A couple people did say that the bill was worth it even with new and higher taxes because "something" had to be done. Some time was spent on various other things that could have been done but we got that was not really the point so we got the discussion back on track on what we do now with this new law.

 

 

The doctor made a point he made to me long ago but added more at the end and I would like to share that with you guys. Like my first conversation with him long ago, he related how each practice must keep a balance of patients, some with higher paying insurance, and some with low paying government payments. The balance allows a doctor to keep a possition in the middle once the low payments and the higher payments meet. His new point was that under this new law, it seems like this will be a "government option" because they have taken control of all insurance companies. The Government through the HHS will dictate how much insurance companies can charge, and how much they will reimburse for services. At first the two teirs will allow that balance of payments but as costs rise because insurance companies will be forced to pay out more in claims, and they will not be allowed to raise rates, the last thing they will be able to do is match the payouts the Government pays, essentially making all insurance companies exactly like Medicare.

 

What does this mean? Well it means the 'middle ground' most doctors need to stay in business will be gone, they will all have to either go out of business or transform into a kind of 'health department' style of business where it is all low end clinic style of treatments, long waiting lines and minimum wage workers. Now some people may think there is nothing wrong with that but he warned us that the real harm will come down the road as young people who are able to be doctors see how little money there is to be made and choose other careers. Why would someone choose to work 12 or more hours a day and have to maintain constant education if there is no way to make a good living? Then he mentioned how quality of care would be lost because all incentive to excell would have been eliminated. A great doctor and a crappy doctor will be paid the same money with few exceptions, those who will make the most money will be the doctors who can create the fastest 'cattle call' medical service, less time per patient means more patients each day, and more payments so the incentive will be for the doctor to make up his mind quickly on the diagnosis and move on to the next person.

 

The rest of the night was us talking about other issues like the mandate for business to provide insurance or pay penalties, or individuals being forced to get insurance or have their income tax returns taken away to pay their fines. And what of the mistakes?

 

 

Put simply we all agreed that new taxes are on the way, and the medical services we know now are going to change. Not right away because most of this does not happen for a few years but planning now is certainly a wise decision.

 

What is considered a "good living" in your opinion? I'm just curious...because the average doctor's salary in Alberta is $230,000 a year. Hell..I was shocked recently to find out my friend Sam makes $110,000 as a dental hygienist. Seems like really good money to me lol.

[timesjoke]

What is considered a "good living" in your opinion? I'm just curious...because the average doctor's salary in Alberta is $230,000 a year. Hell..I was shocked recently to find out my friend Sam makes $110,000 as a dental hygienist. Seems like really good money to me lol.

 

Because of things like malpractice insurance a huge amount of the money a doctor makes goes to that, not in their pocket, in fact that was the one thing the doctor mentioned as a great kind of insurance for the Government to take over because once the Government had to start paying out claims, you bet they would figure out how to end the BS lawsuits.

 

 

 

As far as what is considered a 'decent living' I am sure that is up to the beholder but when you consider the level of education and risk a doctor must face you surely can't expect them to like being paid a low wage.

 

 

According to the latest "The Taming of the Queue" annual meeting in Canada about the long medical waiting lists, the beginning doctor in Canada starts out at $100,000 and the top earners are anesthesiologists with over ten years experience who make around $260,000. The low wages are considered to be the number one reason Canada is severely short on doctors, but then again most of these doctors run to the united states to make more money, as soon as the money is taken out of the American system Canada might be able to retain their doctors because there is no financial draw for them to leave.

 

 

 

 

I can say this, I would not work as a doctor for that kind of money, as you said a low skilled dental hygienist can make 100k so why be a doctor?

 

My brother-in-law who is a doctor is already looking into retiring early because he says there is no way he will work that hard for close to nothing.

 

 

 

I saw a recent story about Canada considering making a doctor education only three years to try and fill the shortages, I wonder if rushing kids through their training will have any negative results?

[emkay64]

Is the consensus that American health care will be 100% federally funded or will it only be a percentage? Would your health care include optometry and dentistry and drug costs, or is health care all encompassing? There is so much freaking literature on this I can't make heads or tail of what they want to pass.

[timesjoke]

Is the consensus that American health care will be 100% federally funded or will it only be a percentage? Would your health care include optometry and dentistry and drug costs, or is health care all encompassing? There is so much freaking literature on this I can't make heads or tail of what they want to pass.

What they have already passed is still trying to be figured out, I "BELIEVE" (not 100% sure because the details are still not released) that most basic healthcare would be covered but not dental or optometry unless you had one of those high dollar policies that are to be heavily taxed under this law. Each person making below 150k will get some kind of tax credits or payments to try and help them pay for the policies. Each person can get their own insurance or join an insurance "pool" but still only those allowed in each State because Obama refused to open up competition accross State lines.

 

One of the things I do know for sure is Obama has ended the education loan market and taken it over to make money to help pay for this program. More private sector jobs were just erased by this administration. I said when he first got elected that Obama will go down in history as the Presidetn who killed the most private sector jobs during his Presidency, this one law alone is going to kill about 200,000 private sector jobs and add almost the same number of Government jobs (maybe more).

 

 

Only private sector jobs help the economy, Government jobs are recycling the same tax dollars so when we lose private sector jobs and gain Government jobs to take their place we have lost in effect 4 times the tax revenue in the level of harm it causes.

[emkay64]

"Each person can get their own insurance or join an insurance "pool" but still only those allowed in each State because Obama refused to open up competition accross State lines."

 

So does this mean you can't choose which insurance companies you want and that each policy obtained is not upheld state to state?

[emkay64]

"Each person can get their own insurance or join an insurance "pool" but still only those allowed in each State because Obama refused to open up competition accross State lines."

 

So does this mean you can't choose which insurance companies you want and that each policy obtained is not upheld state to state?

 

I was thinking...don't bother answering..I feel it's quite unlikely I'll get the jist of what's going on anyways. Hopefully something works out in your favor.

[timesjoke]

I understand, it is very confusing, lol.

[Ahhlee]

Note to self: Don't go to dinner at TJ's house. It will turn into a current events round table snorefest/agenda push.

 

I'd go to RO's or hugo's if I was invited. At least there would be grilling and beer sans formal bullshit.

 

And at eddo's he would eat one too many burritos and I could laugh at him while he sprinted to the bathroom with the trots.

 

 

I'm low class like that.

[eddo]

Note to self: Don't go to dinner at TJ's house. It will turn into a current events round table snorefest/agenda push.

 

I'd go to RO's or hugo's if I was invited. At least there would be grilling and beer sans formal bullshit.

 

And at eddo's he would eat one too many burritos and I could laugh at him while he sprinted to the bathroom with the trots.

 

 

I'm low class like that.

 

ummm, burrito's don't give me the trots.

 

 

lack of burrito's give me the trots.

[timesjoke]

Note to self: Don't go to dinner at TJ's house. It will turn into a current events round table snorefest/agenda push.

 

I'd go to RO's or hugo's if I was invited. At least there would be grilling and beer sans formal bullshit.

 

And at eddo's he would eat one too many burritos and I could laugh at him while he sprinted to the bathroom with the trots.

 

 

I'm low class like that.

 

So because I have one formal dinner with political and healthcare discussions, now every event in my home must be the exact same thing?

 

 

I have a very wide selection of friends from the business world, this is true, it is a side effect of being in construction, most of those at this dinner have been customers of mine, I built the doctors new office for example. But at the same time I just went on a charity bike ride/music event this past Friday night and all day Saturday were it involved a group of bikers riding together to the spirit of the suwannee park and we had several local rock bands playing all night Friday and all day Saturday.

 

I bet you would have liked that Ali.

[RoyalOrleans]

Suwanee Park, GA?

 

Were you just right down the road?

[timesjoke]

Suwanee Park, GA?

 

Were you just right down the road?

 

 

No here:

 

http://www.musicliveshere.com/content/index.php

[atlantic]

Times, Massachusetts has had state run healthcare for over 2 years now. Everyone I know who had insurance saw no changes in their plans. The only difference I saw was that people who didn't earn much were able to buy into state-run plans at reasonable costs. Therefore eliminating their need to go to the ER for every little thing instead of actual emergencies. The real problem is going to be illegal immigration reform. That will cause a huge influx of people into the system which will be the actual cause of shortage on doctors and nurses. Not to mention the majority of the doctors and nurses already out there are nearing retirement.

[eddo]

Times, Massachusetts has had state run healthcare for over 2 years now. Everyone I know who had insurance saw no changes in their plans. The only difference I saw was that people who didn't earn much were able to buy into state-run plans at reasonable costs. Therefore eliminating their need to go to the ER for every little thing instead of actual emergencies. The real problem is going to be illegal immigration reform. That will cause a huge influx of people into the system which will be the actual cause of shortage on doctors and nurses. Not to mention the majority of the doctors and nurses already out there are nearing retirement.

 

http://forums.timesdaily.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6501027316/m/8041007798

 

http://www.wickedlocal.com/burlington/news/x2145966474/Howard-Dean-Massachusetts-health-care-system-broke

 

My linkhttp://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2010/04/glance-at-small-scale-obamacare.html

 

yeah, thanks but no thanks...

[RoyalOrleans]

And that is the choice of those governed in Massachusetts. No matter how corrupt and inefficient the state run healthcare system is in Massachusetts, it can not compare to the corruption and inefficiency that will plague the nationalized Obamacare.