Uncle Sam's Plantation

[ImWithStupid]

[attach=full]2756[/attach]

[phreakwars]

Still not seeing a source, IWS/Times. Thus far, I'm forced to conclude (until presented evidence otherwise) that the panels you described are non-existent, rendering that point moot.

You NEVER will see a source, because it's made up boogey man BS.

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[ImWithStupid]

Still not seeing a source, IWS/Times. Thus far, I'm forced to conclude (until presented evidence otherwise) that the panels you described are non-existent, rendering that point moot.

You NEVER will see a source, because it's made up boogey man BS.

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That's funny because, just as Hugo posted a couple posts back and I did so many times in other threads, so declined to continually re-educate people in this one, it was in the stimulus bill. First step in Daschle's plan.

 

Not even Democrats are denying the board was established. Catch up.

[phreakwars]

What page? I wanna read it myself.

 

Until you can produce it, it doesn't exist.. PERIOD.

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[jokersarewild]

I'm with Phreak on this one. I want to read the law myself. Granted, it would be amusing if it already existed. But until I can read it for myself, I believe NOTHING.

[timesjoke]

 

 

Until you can produce it, it doesn't exist.. PERIOD.

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The progressive crutch, bury your head in the sand and pretend things don't exist just because you have forced yourself not to see it.

 

 

Hugo showed you a great example and in the new bill there are advisory boards and incentive measures in place to control what services will be done and those that will not, I know you have the ability to understand the sticks and carrots example, your just choosing not to for the sake of defending the undefendable.

 

 

 

Bender, how about you answer my question instead of dodging it over and over again, we both know Obama included a special exclusion for all Unions to escape the big new taxes on their insurance policies that 95% of Americans are subject to. How exactly did that gift to the Unuions help America?

 

 

 

Or was that a payoff to the Unions for their political support?

 

 

This is a great healthcare bill question but you have dodged it like 12 times now, why is this question so painful you refuse to answer it?

[phreakwars]

Until you can produce it, it doesn't exist.. PERIOD.

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The progressive crutch, bury your head in the sand and pretend things don't exist just because you have forced yourself not to see it.

So show me which page of which document I can find it on. Wanna place a BAN bet on it? Bet ya a 30 day BAN you CAN'T find any document whatsoever that has been signed into law to back up you boogeyman claim... common TJ, take my bet.

 

 

Hugo showed you a great example and in the new bill there are advisory boards and incentive measures in place to control what services will be done and those that will not, I know you have the ability to understand the sticks and carrots example, your just choosing not to for the sake of defending the undefendable.

You call THAT an example? Then show me the wording in the actual bill, not someones interpretation of something made up

 

 

Bender, how about you answer my question instead of dodging it over and over again.

What, that tax break for the unions, what about it?

 

Or was that a payoff to the Unions for their political support?

Unions are made up mainly of Republican voters, but, your too ignorant to accept that truth, so, believe what you want.

 

This is a great healthcare bill question but you have dodged it like 12 times now, why is this question so painful you refuse to answer it?

I told you, I haven't dodged anything, I simply skip your posts when you start in with your lame ass "MARXIST, LIBERALS, SOCIALISM" shit.

 

That's old as fuck and a worn out argument. You have no idea what socialism even is but your good at parroting that talking point, you also have no idea on what Marx's work was about, so another parroted boring talking point. Like anybody wants to read that shit over and over.

 

Just like your dumb ass use of the word "progressive". Hell, your too dumb to know the difference. There are only about a dozen or so actual progressives in Washington. Mainly the house, and only 1 in the senate.. Bet you can't even tell me who that one lone progressive senator is.

 

Another fine example of being too stupid to realize how stupid you are.

 

Of course, your probably now gonna come back with "BUT YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION" even though it is perfectly clear that I have,

 

So I'll say it again, in reference to your BITCH about the unions getting a deal with health care...

 

IT'S A TAX BREAK, SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST TAX BREAKS, DON'T GIVE ME THAT SHIT THAT IT ISN'T FAIR THEY GET ONE AND OTHERS DON'T BECAUSE YOUR THE SAME MORON WHO WANTS TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO THE RICH

 

THERE IS YOUR FUCKING ANSWER.

 

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[timesjoke]

 

So show me which page of which document I can find it on. Wanna place a BAN bet on it? Bet ya a 30 day BAN you CAN'T find any document whatsoever that has been signed into law to back up you boogeyman claim... common TJ, take my bet.

 

You call THAT an example? Then show me the wording in the actual bill, not someones interpretation of something made up

 

Like you would ever ban yourself, your such a child sometimes.

 

Being as the progressives who voted this thing into law without ever reading it don't care, why do you? Blind trust in your chosen messiah? There is not a single line in that monster that openly says there will be a 'death panel' but it does say there will be panels who will oversee medical treatments. It is not the rules that will directly ration care, it is the people using the new rules that will do that, people like Donald Berwick who has already said there must be rationed care.

 

The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick

 

 

What, that tax break for the unions, what about it?

 

So now you admit it was a tax break, that is a good start, now can you try answering the actual question as to what this tax break special deal for Unions did to help all Americans? Why was it part of Obama's healchare reform plan?

 

 

Unions are made up mainly of Republican voters, but, your too ignorant to accept that truth, so, believe what you want.

 

You have clearly lost your mind.

 

New data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) show that a majority of American union members now work for the government. The pattern of unions adding members in government while losing members in the private sector accelerated during the recession. The typical union member now works in the Post Office, not on the assembly line.

 

… The BLS’s annual report on union membership shows the labor movement’s decline in membership continued in 2009. While a full 23.0 percent of Americans belonged to labor unions in 1980, by 2008 only 12.4 percent did. In 2009, that figure dropped slightly to 12.3 percent.[2] There are now 15.3 million union members in the United States, 770,000 fewer than in 2008.

 

… What is newsworthy, however, is another figure reported by the BLS: 52 percent of all union members work for the federal or state and local governments, a sharp increase from the 49 percent in 2008. A majority of American union members are now employed by the government; three times more union members now work in the Post Office than in the auto industry.

 

Union funds go to liberal political figures way more than conservatives, you may see a few RINO's get some funds, not true conservatives.

 

I told you, I haven't dodged anything, I simply skip your posts when you start in with your lame ass "MARXIST, LIBERALS, SOCIALISM" sh t.

 

Right, so why did you try to say Obama didn't make this sweetheart deal for Unions first?

 

 

That's old as f and a worn out argument. You have no idea what socialism even is but your good at parroting that talking point, you also have no idea on what Marx's work was about, so another parroted boring talking point. Like anybody wants to read that sh t over and over.

 

While I do know exactly what socialism is, what is really the difference? This is America, we have our own political system and don't need to know what Marx's work was all about for us to see that what is happening today is not what our founding father's had in mind.

 

 

Just like your dumb ass use of the word "progressive". Hell, your too dumb to know the difference. There are only about a dozen or so actual progressives in Washington. Mainly the house, and only 1 in the senate.. Bet you can't even tell me who that one lone progressive senator is.

 

Another fine example of being too stupid to realize how stupid you are.

 

All except the few Democrats who truly are 'blue dogs' are progressives in one form or another. I look at voting records, nothing else and every person who voted for the healthcare bill as written is definately a progressive.

 

 

Of course, your probably now gonna come back with "BUT YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION" even though it is perfectly clear that I have,

 

So I'll say it again, in reference to your BITCH about the unions getting a deal with health care...

 

IT'S A TAX BREAK, SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST TAX BREAKS, DON'T GIVE ME THAT sh t THAT IT ISN'T FAIR THEY GET ONE AND OTHERS DON'T BECAUSE YOUR THE SAME MORON WHO WANTS TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO THE RICH

 

THERE IS YOUR FUCKING ANSWER.

 

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Well you did still dodge the question, I never asked you if this was a tax break or not, I was the one asking you "why" Obama gave the Unions the tax break and what that massive back room deal did to help the average American?

 

 

So tell me Bender, how did Obama help America by giving Liberal Union leaders/his campaign supporters a sweet exclusion to healthcare taxes everyone else not in a Union must pay?

[ImWithStupid]

Still not seeing a source, IWS/Times. Thus far, I'm forced to conclude (until presented evidence otherwise) that the panels you described are non-existent, rendering that point moot.

You NEVER will see a source, because it's made up boogey man BS.

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http://www.hhs.gov/recovery/programs/os/cerbios.html

[phreakwars]

how did Obama help America by giving Liberal Union leaders/his campaign supporters a sweet exclusion to healthcare taxes everyone else not in a Union must pay?

He helped REAL workers and not big money, THAT'S how he helped. Hey, it's not the unions fault regular average joes didn't pull themselves up by the bootstraps and demand better benefits. That's what unions are for. Don't like it, go cry to freerepublic. I know how you just HATE those unions. What, with people standing up for their own best interests and not corporations interests and all.

 

Like you would ever ban yourself, your such a child sometimes.

 

Ban myself? No, I said I'd ban you.. but, if you CAN prove it and post the exact wording from the exact bill your trying to claim exists, hell, I'll take Royal Orleans off the MOD position and put you in his place.

 

Pretty sweet deal wouldn't ya say?

 

Here's your chance TJ. Come on, take my bet... show me the evidence no right wing blow hard on any forum I've visited has ever been able to do.

 

Come on, RO's position is on the line here too. Show me proof.

 

See that's just how confident I am that your full of shit, I'd be willing to bet my MOD on it...

 

And guess what, I REALLY don't expect to be losing my MOD in exchange for your sorry ass. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

So come on TJ, Take my bet, show me the fabled bill lines. Exact bill # and page. If it's true, then you should be able to find a reference to it on the right wing drone sites you visit for info & become our new MOD.

 

Piece of cake.

 

I need to go, but I'll check back later tonight for that proof.. Gives you PLENTY of time to find it.

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[timesjoke]

He helped REAL workers and not big money, THAT'S how he helped. Hey, it's not the unions fault regular average joes didn't pull themselves up by the bootstraps and demand better benefits. That's what unions are for. Don't like it, go cry to freerepublic. I know how you just HATE those unions. What, with people standing up for their own best interests and not corporations interests and all.

 

Nice soapbox moment but what does any of that have to do with a National healchare bill that is serving all of America, not just a few spoiled labor Unions in collcetive barganing?

 

The answer is nothing, and that is the answer your too scared to admit to. Obama gave a purely political reward to purely liberal supporters, this reward to fat cat Unions actually hurt the overall bill because that tax was going to help pay for health care to the poor. Why is it Obama took money from helping the poor just to give it to already over priced Union workers?

 

 

Ban myself? No, I said I'd ban you.. but, if you CAN prove it and post the exact wording from the exact bill your trying to claim exists, hell, I'll take Royal Orleans off the MOD position and put you in his place.

 

Pretty sweet deal wouldn't ya say?

 

When was the last time RO came here? Oh, I know, it was just before I handed him his aZZ in another debate he took personal. The time before this departure was the same thing, he ran away from me because he is too immature to handle defeat. And I would not take a mod possition here for any reason, if I was staff I would hold myself above the debates to maintain objectivity and this is one of the few places I completely let my hair down so I can fight in the trenches.

 

 

 

Here's your chance TJ. Come on, take my bet... show me the evidence no right wing blow hard on any forum I've visited has ever been able to do.

 

Come on, RO's position is on the line here too. Show me proof.

 

See that's just how confident I am that your full of sh t, I'd be willing to bet my MOD on it...

 

And guess what, I REALLY don't expect to be losing my MOD in exchange for your sorry ass. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

So come on TJ, Take my bet, show me the fabled bill lines. Exact bill # and page. If it's true, then you should be able to find a reference to it on the right wing drone sites you visit for info & become our new MOD.

 

Piece of cake.

 

I need to go, but I'll check back later tonight for that proof.. Gives you PLENTY of time to find it.

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I will give you this much, I am not sure what exact line it is on but every respected reviewer of the new law agrees it does give the Government the power to offer sticks and carrots and control what treatments will be given while other treatments will simply be priced out of the market.

 

I go back to Obama's own man for the job of figuring out how best to ration care:

 

The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick

 

 

 

 

 

So what do you say about what IWS just linked Bender?

[eddo]

 

IT'S A TAX BREAK, SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST TAX BREAKS, DON'T GIVE ME THAT sh t THAT IT ISN'T FAIR THEY GET ONE AND OTHERS DON'T BECAUSE YOUR THE SAME MORON WHO WANTS TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO THE RICH

 

YOU'RE

[phreakwars]

Just checking in, I see TJ hasn't produced any proof, just more hot air. As expected of course.

 

He has too much pride to concede that it doesn't exist because it's a right wing scare tactic myth.

 

Ohh no... he MUST insist he is right.

 

Proof of that???

 

NEVER.

 

Just like all of TJ's posts, no proof is ever offered, and it is followed up with a "BUT, BUT....WHY DOES SUCH AND SUCH HAVE TO DO THIS....BUT BUT WHY DOES SUCH AND SUCH HAVE TO DO THAT....THE SKY IS FALLING" AND OF COURSE "YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION"

 

Poor little chicken hawk TJ. Your questions keep getting answered, you just don't like the answer, so you make up reality in your head.

 

Go back to the Shawn Hannity forums and hang out with some more like minded drones. People like you bore the hell out of me... you bitch, cry, complain, and pretend to be a victim of some big plot to get you, but alas, when someone opens up the closet with a flashlight and says "SHOW ME THE BOOGEYMAN" he just isn't there.

 

When will us adults ever believe people like you that the boogeyman is real.. if ONLY you could show proof.

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[timesjoke]

Hugo and IWS already posted the proof and you pretend to not see their posts, so why waste my time trying to post something you will refuse to see?

 

I did give you a quote directly from one of the main progressives in charge of the rationing and still you pretend to not see the facts from yoru own people. Let me post that quote again:

 

The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick

 

 

 

 

And this makes it 14 times you have dodged the question of why Obama gave the massive tax break to Unions? You finally did admit it was a massive tax break, but you went on and on about how other people want tax breaks but you forget it is Obama who says giving tax breaks as evil so why did Obama give massive tax breaks to over paid Union workers and take that money out of the mouth of poor families who need that funding to help them as he claimed his plan was designed to do?

 

 

 

 

Your scared Bender, scared to admit your progressive President is more corrupt than any President before him, everything he has done to include this healthcare mess was designed to reward those who support progressives/liberals. Let's actually look at this healthcare law, it does nothing to gurantee lower costs, in fact recent studies show it has caused them to rise and they will keep going up a little at a time so why pass it if it will not lower costs?

[phreakwars]

Hugo and IWS already posted the proof and you pretend to not see their posts, so why waste my time trying to post something you will refuse to see?

 

BLAH BLAH BLAH & More hot air & typical TJ drone talk bullshit to just ignore & don't read...........

Docket#, Line, page?

 

Until shown, they showed NO PROOF, sorry, you lose.

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[ImWithStupid]

Hugo and IWS already posted the proof and you pretend to not see their posts, so why waste my time trying to post something you will refuse to see?

 

BLAH BLAH BLAH & More hot air & typical TJ drone talk bullshit to just ignore & don't read...........

Docket#, Line, page?

 

Until shown, they showed NO PROOF, sorry, you lose.

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http://Off Topic Forum.com/top...519#entry112519

 

Is the Obama HHS lying?

[phreakwars]

Docket#, Line, page?

 

Until shown, NO PROOF, sorry, try again.

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[ImWithStupid]

Docket#, Line, page?

 

Until shown, NO PROOF, sorry, try again.

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[attach=full]2757[/attach]

[phreakwars]

Your silly illustrations are still not proof. Your inability to show proof only proves it to be nothing but theory and speculation..

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[timesjoke]

Your silly illustrations are still not proof. Your inability to show proof only proves it to be nothing but theory and speculation..

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You won't even believe the HHS Bender, there is no level of proof you will ever accept. Just like when you always claimed the Republicans never offered alternative ideas, IWS would post new idea after idea and you always pretended to never see a single thing. IWS posted the picture above to illustrate how you live your life, you bury your head in the sand of progressives/liberals/socialists and you will never let yourself be exposed to anything that does not conform to your agenda or makes your agenda look bad.

 

 

The decision is not whether or not we will ration care, he told an interviewer according to the Associated Press. "The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly." ~ Donald Berwick

 

 

 

By the way, you still dodged the question about WHY Obama gavce a big tax break to only Union workers at the expence of underfunding his healthcare bill that was supposed to be for all Americans, especially the poor who could not afford health insurance.

 

 

Why did he do that Bender?

 

You can't bring yourself to admit that was a pure political thank-you for their support to get him elected can you Bender?

[timesjoke]

Of course not. It's all part of the new trend in "white oppression" that's hit America.

 

Were being indoctrinated, the Dr.'s are being told what to do, this horror, that horror, ohhh how the people are being oppressed and need to take their country back.... whoaaa is me a black man's in office, and all that.

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To be honest I was not going to reply to this but I changed my mind, why is it the race card is always played any time the progressives can't give good reasons for what they do?

 

 

It is like my question to Bender that he refuses to answer, why did Obama give such a massive gift to Unions to exempt them from the new healthcare taxes?

 

 

 

The progressives do all this crazy stuff and after they do it, they pretend it never happened then begin a series of blocking moves and distractions to take attention away from what they did. The problem is their tactica have been so overused that the masses are starting to catch on so when all else failes, play the race card....right Bender?

 

 

I mean, you know that the same objections were made against the Government taking over healthcare back when the "white" Clintons tried to get it passed, so any thinking individual can know that opposition now is not based in race, but being honest would not supply you progressives with the cover you need now would it?

 

 

Now your back to the ostrich thing, you got your head in the sand and even with Obama ofdficials and the HHS all saying they will be using panels to determine medical treatments and reimbursement rates for doctors to control those doctors, you cover your eyes and plug your ears screaming "la, la, la, la I can't hear you....."

 

 

Funny stuff.

[phreakwars]

there is no level of proof you will ever accept

I will accept Docket#, page, and line number, no less.

 

Can I make up things that aren't there too?

 

I heard the new health care bill legalizes marijuana. Don't ask me to prove it by showing you the exact wording, you'll just have to take my word for it.

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[timesjoke]

there is no level of proof you will ever accept

I will accept Docket#, page, and line number, no less.

 

And your not stupid, you know these powers to manipulate costs and ration medical treatments are not done in any single line, it is the total package spread out among hundreds of lines. I'm not wasting that much time to copy all that just for you to ignore it just like you ignored hundreds of other things people post like the two posts by IWS and Hugo in this thread your ignoring that proves the Government already has the power you speak of from the Obama Stimulus package.

 

 

But you pretend to be stupid so you can claim nobody showed you a line because it is too complex to post the entire extracted mess.

 

 

Why do you even doubt what Donald Berwick said? Do you think he is a Republican operative telling lies too? This guy is Obama's man, he admits there will be rationing. You know this is all true, but your too scared to admit to that truth because the only thing that matter to you is saving face, not being honest.

 

 

You flew the Obama flag and now that some very ugly realities of this man are being revealed, your need to pretend these things don't exist to save face.

 

 

 

Can I make up things that aren't there too?

 

I heard the new health care bill legalizes marijuana. Don't ask me to prove it by showing you the exact wording, you'll just have to take my word for it.

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I am still waiting for you to tell me why Obama gave Unions that sweetheart deal to exclude them from the new healthcare taxes and why that was good for all of America Bender, if you ever stop running away from that question and honestly answer it I may decide to devote some time posting a few of the lines out of the law that gives the Government the right to ration care. My question to you was before your question, you are still dodging my question so don't expect me to go out of my way to answer yours when your just going to ignore the lines and lie about what they mean anyway when your not answering my question.

[timesjoke]

I decided to give you a chance to redeem yourself, here is one section where it covers the ability to reduce payments to Hospitals that have in their opinion a readmission issue:

 

H.R.3590-290 SEC. 3025. HOSPITAL READMISSIONS REDUCTION PROGRAM. (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 1886 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395ww), as amended by sections 3001 and 3008, is amended by adding at the end the following novel subsection :”’(q) HOSPITAL READMISSIONS REDUCTION PROGRAM.—”’(1) IN GENERAL.—With respect to payment for discharges from an applicable hospital (as defined in paragraph (5)©) occurring during a fiscal year beginning on or after October 1, 2012, in order to account for excess readmissions in the hospital, the Secretary shall reduce the payments that would otherwise be made to such hospital under subsection (d) (or section 1814(B)(3), as the case may be) for such a discharge by an amount equal to the product of—”’(A) the base operating DRG payment amount (as defined in paragraph (2)) for the discharge; and”’(B) the adjustment factor (described in paragraph (3)(A)) for the hospital for the fiscal year.

 

 

What this means is buracrats and non-doctors will have the power to reduce payments to hospitals based on readmissions and not if the admissions were necessary or not, there are similar rules for reducing payments to doctors for the same reason that they are ording readmissions "too often" so they need to be punished.

 

 

 

 

So what will this lead to?

 

 

Doctors and hospitals will be more concerned with fitting a set Government profile of how often they are allowed readmissions than what the patient really needs for their medical treatment. As long as doctors and hospitals "appear" the way they are mandated to appear, they get their full payments, if they don't conform to a buracratic model of perfection set by non-doctors, then they are not paid their full reimbursement.

 

 

 

 

So there you go Bender, one great example of how the Government will control medical treatments and not your doctor or hospitals because the Government will simply deny payment for services rendered. What do you have to say about that?

 

 

Or is it time to toss some more insults, call me a racist and bury your head in the sand again?

[emkay64]

When I read that over I saw that as a positive thing. Maybe I'm not getting it but it seems to me that making other care facilities more accessible would reduce fees and possibly eliminate so many costly re-admissions.

 

I also read this..makes sense.

 

http://www.ahip.org/content/pressrelease.aspx?docid=30659

 

Who knows though..if you're an Obama hater he'll never do anything right..the same as if McCain was elected all his choices would be seen as shitty by those who voted otherwise.