Arizona State Senator responds to Immigration

[snafu]

I’m sorry but there aren’t any white Mexicans crossing the boarder illegal. We need to fix this problem and if in tales “profiling’ then I think we should. The security of our nation far exceeds the little inconvenience to some of our citizens like asking for ID.

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.

 

Even if it means giving up your fellow mans freedoms for your own security.

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Who's freedom are we giving up? How about the farmer and his dog? Who's protecting his freedom and rights? Who's protecting his land? Asking for ID takes no freedom from anybody.

[timesjoke]

Funny as hell watching hugo and Bender give each other kudos and high fives and at the same time pretend to be on different ends of the political spectrum, lol.

[snafu]

Good qoute though..

[phreakwars]

I’m sorry but there aren’t any white Mexicans crossing the boarder illegal. We need to fix this problem and if in tales “profiling’ then I think we should. The security of our nation far exceeds the little inconvenience to some of our citizens like asking for ID.

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.

 

Even if it means giving up your fellow mans freedoms for your own security.

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Who's freedom are we giving up? How about the farmer and his dog? Who's protecting his freedom and rights? Who's protecting his land? Asking for ID takes no freedom from anybody.

Again, that depends on the circumstances for asking. Are we not free to walk down a road without our motives being questioned?

 

Look REAL CLOSE at this:

 

[attach=full]2784[/attach]

 

 

Do you see the potential flaws with this?

 

Suppose a cop is driving by a neighborhood and sees a bunch of guys just casually sitting on a porch conversing, he could use the excuse that he suspects all the individuals might be living there and are in violation of rental codes which only permit so many occupants in a residence, and use that as justification to ID all individuals. Well, what if the individuals he wants to ID don't have one on them.... after all, one does not need an ID just to be somewhere, they are not driving any vehicle, maybe they walked to their friends house and have their I.D. at home... why should they be subject to such scrutiny? Would you like that, do you consider that being free?

 

Or maybe use a city ordinance excuse like "YOUR GRASS LOOKS PRETTY HIGH" Now show me some I.D. Or perhaps you have a car up on jacks because your changing the oil... show me some ID.

 

THAT I have a problem with.

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[timesjoke]

Who's freedom are we giving up? How about the farmer and his dog? Who's protecting his freedom and rights? Who's protecting his land? Asking for ID takes no freedom from anybody.

 

You may as wel give up, liberals are not interested in logic, I stuck Bender in the corner with his own words and that is why he got angry, all liberals want open borders, Bender is as liberal as it gets, he claims to want to send the illegals home but says any attempt to actually identify someone as an illegal is wrong, that is inconsistent. He says punnish employers for hiring illegals but at the same time he does not say how you do that without first identifying a worker as illegal.

 

 

It must start with identification, as eddo and I said, we are not offended by someone asking for my ID when I vote or get stopped by police, why would anyone else be offended?

[snafu]

I’m sorry but there aren’t any white Mexicans crossing the boarder illegal. We need to fix this problem and if in tales “profiling’ then I think we should. The security of our nation far exceeds the little inconvenience to some of our citizens like asking for ID.

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither. Even if it means giving up your fellow mans freedoms for your own security. . .

Who's freedom are we giving up? How about the farmer and his dog? Who's protecting his freedom and rights? Who's protecting his land? Asking for ID takes no freedom from anybody.

Again, that depends on the circumstances for asking. Are we not free to walk down a road without our motives being questioned? Look REAL CLOSE at this: [attach=full]2785[/attach] Do you see the potential flaws with this? Suppose a cop is driving by a neighborhood and sees a bunch of guys just casually sitting on a porch conversing, he could use the excuse that he suspects all the individuals might be living there and are in violation of rental codes which only permit so many occupants in a residence, and use that as justification to ID all individuals. Well, what if the individuals he wants to ID don't have one on them.... after all, one does not need an ID just to be somewhere, they are not driving any vehicle, maybe they walked to their friends house and have their I.D. at home... why should they be subject to such scrutiny? Would you like that, do you consider that being free? Or maybe use a city ordinance excuse like "YOUR GRASS LOOKS PRETTY HIGH" Now show me some I.D. Or perhaps you have a car up on jacks because your changing the oil... show me some ID. THAT I have a problem with. . .

I can't see the image because I'm at work and it's not coming up be if the police officer had an excuse to ask for ID then he's doing his job. <BR>He can use the same excuse to ask for mine.

[phreakwars]

Man, and I thought you loved freedom SNAFU, evidently, I WAS WRONG. You won't mind being enslaved by Gestapo laws one bit. You have no problem conforming.

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[snafu]

Man, and I thought you loved freedom SNAFU, evidently, I WAS WRONG. You won't mind being enslaved by Gestapo laws one bit. You have no problem conforming.

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.

 

 

LOL ok ok...

 

When I was younger I remember the cops would stop me just walking down the street and ask what I was doing and where I was going just because I had long scruffy hair. Blacks and latinos aren't the only ones that get profiled.

If you look out of place they have every right to protect others.

[timesjoke]

Immigration Reform? Let's Try Mexico's Immigration Law!

By John Lillpop

 

Tuesday, February 27, 2007

 

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

 

•Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

 

 

•Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

 

 

•Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

 

 

•The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

 

 

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

 

•Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

 

 

•A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

 

 

•A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

 

 

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:

 

•Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)

 

 

•Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

 

 

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

 

•Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

 

 

•Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)

 

 

•Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.

 

 

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

 

•"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

 

 

•Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)

 

 

•Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

 

 

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:

 

•A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

 

 

•Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

 

 

All of the above runs contrary to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico's immigration practices versus its American immigration preachings is telling. It gives a clear picture of the Mexican government's agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.

 

 

Obama is now joined with the Mexican president in Washington and both have been bashing Arizona for their attempts to get this problem under control, so I thought the immegration rules in Mexico might be interesting for comparison.

[phreakwars]

Man, and I thought you loved freedom SNAFU, evidently, I WAS WRONG. You won't mind being enslaved by Gestapo laws one bit. You have no problem conforming.

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LOL ok ok...

 

When I was younger I remember the cops would stop me just walking down the street and ask what I was doing and where I was going just because I had long scruffy hair. Blacks and latinos aren't the only ones that get profiled.

If you look out of place they have every right to protect others.

No they don't, that's profiling plain and simple. If you compromise by setting a standard for "LOOKING OUT OF PLACE", then you will inevitably start compromising more and more broadly about what and whom "looks out of place". Didn't America learn it's lesson from the civil rights movement? Those compromises don't seem so bad, until it's YOU being targeted just for looking different or sounding different. I'm sorry, but that is NOT what America is about.

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[timesjoke]

There is no loss of freedom to show your ID, but there is a loss of freedom when our tax money goes to support illegals when that same money could be returned to Americans.

 

 

Consider other factors like the extremely elevated crime rates caused by illegals, if your scared to even walk the streets, is that freedom?

 

 

 

 

Looks like the only freedom people like Bender want is to take it from those who have it and give it to those who don't deserve it.

[snafu]

There is no loss of freedom to show your ID, but there is a loss of freedom when our tax money goes to support illegals when that same money could be returned to Americans.

 

 

Consider other factors like the extremely elevated crime rates caused by illegals, if your scared to even walk the streets, is that freedom?

 

 

 

 

Looks like the only freedom people like Bender want is to take it from those who have it and give it to those who don't deserve it.

 

 

Yeah your right the loss of the freedoms are to the citizens of those states being trampled on and frightened to leave their houses.

But enough with the pot shots please. .

Edited April 2, 2016 by rem

[snafu]

Just to refresh your memory of what's happing Phreak..

 

The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles. Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains. One man told of two illegal’s who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can’t leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.

 

 

Were fighting a fukking war here..

[timesjoke]

 

Yeah your right the loss of the freedoms are to the citizens of those states being trampled on and frightened to leave their houses.

 

And there is the real problem, while the open border crowd are using delay and blocking tactics like calling everyone racists if they support this law, if they succeed in stoping this who wins?

 

 

The illegals.

 

 

Who pays the price? The American taxpayer.

 

 

And make no mistake, that is exactly how the open border crowd wants it to be.

 

 

But enough with the pot shots please. .

 

Your right, I will let him off the hook.

Edited April 2, 2016 by rem

[phreakwars]

Just to refresh your memory of what's happing Phreak..

 

The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles. Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains. One man told of two illegal’s who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can’t leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.

 

 

Were fighting a fukking war here..

Yes, it is a war, and to fight that war, you take it to where the war is... the border, and you secure it, not to the towns and cities where your playing a guessing game as to who is and who isn't an American. If the people of Arizona are serious about wanting to secure those borders, then they can quit crying about how incompetent the feds are, use their own damn tax money, and patrol those borders. Sure, they want secure borders, but they sure as hell don't wanna pay for it themselves. What ever happened to "KEEP BIG BROTHER OUT OF MY LIFE"?

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[timesjoke]

 

Yes, it is a war, and to fight that war, you take it to where the war is... the border, and you secure it, not to the towns and cities where your playing a guessing game as to who is and who isn't an American.

Securing the border is a great first step, but the massive illegal crimes are happening in the cities, not the borders. We need to secure the borders and once secured, deport the illegals, that will protect the freedoms of all Americans.

 

It is very hard to fight a war when the liberals have our hands tied behind our backs.

 

If the people of Arizona are serious about wanting to secure those borders, then they can quit crying about how incompetent the feds are, use their own damn tax money, and patrol those borders. Sure, they want secure borders, but they sure as hell don't wanna pay for it themselves. What ever happened to "KEEP BIG BROTHER OUT OF MY LIFE"?

 

Um......

 

Bender, did you forget that the Federal Governemnt takes a lot of tax money from the States to do things like enforce our borders?

 

If the Federal Government would like to return the tax money they refuse to put to use for protecting Arizona I am sure Arizona would gladly take that tax money and do exactly that. But there is the problem, the State is paying for services and protections the Federal Government is refusing to supply.

 

 

 

How about that?

[eddo]

Yes, it is a war, and to fight that war, you take it to where the war is... the border, and you secure it, not to the towns and cities where your playing a guessing game as to who is and who isn't an American. If the people of Arizona are serious about wanting to secure those borders, then they can quit crying about how incompetent the feds are, use their own damn tax money, and patrol those borders. Sure, they want secure borders, but they sure as hell don't wanna pay for it themselves. What ever happened to "KEEP BIG BROTHER OUT OF MY LIFE"?

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already in the works-

Brewer to secure border

 

It is a multi-faceted plan. Secure the border. Make it harder to hire illegals. Send those illegals already here home, or at least make it uncomfortable for them to be here.

 

It's all in the works- and as long as people actually step up and pay attention instead of screaming "racism" every chance they get, it can work.

[timesjoke]

 

 

It's all in the works- and as long as people actually step up and pay attention instead of screaming "racism" every chance they get, it can work.

And there is the problem, nobody in their right mind believes that this is about racism, it has nothing to do with race, if Canadians were doing the exact same thing as the Mexicans and costing billions of dollars to be wasted dealing with this problem then they would be trying to deal with that too, it is about the law, it is about the cost, and it is about the freedoms of Americans to not feel scared to live in Arizona and other places just because the Federal Government refuses to enforce the laws.

 

 

But, calling everyone racist is their only real card to play eddo.

 

 

If the liberals told the truth and admitted their real reasons for not wanting to secure the border, almost all Americans would revolt.

[hugo]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37233039/ns/local_news-los_angeles_ca?GT1=43001

[timesjoke]

Great link hugo.

 

Seems like the heat is really being turned up and one thing I notice most is the places who are doing the sanctuary thing and have open arms policies for illegals are all broke, there is a responsibility to taxpayers that all these Government workers and officials have turned their backs on to force their ideological beliefs on the communities. They don't care the money is gone, they don't care how many Americans they have to hurt as long as they can protect the illegals.

 

America is being invaded, and liberals are helping in this invasion.

[ImWithStupid]

That's an election, of course you show'd ID. Your being ridiculous.

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Just out of curiosity, have you ever actually voted? You don't have to show ID in Nebraska to vote.

 

In fact, Democrats have long fought against any law that may require it in states that try to push these laws, and the ACLU immediately sues them.

[ImWithStupid]

Will Americans occasionally be asked for id to prove they are American Citizens? Yes, it will happen. (like I said- it happened to me only yesterday and I was in no way committing a crime or being questioned about one.) Provide a state issued id card of some sort and all should be fine. then carry on with your life.

It's not a matter of being asked for an ID, it's the circumstances involved in the request.

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Supreme Court Ruling in Muehler v. Mena. Unanimous 9-0 decision from 2005...

 

 

2. The officers' questioning of Mena about her immigration status during her detention did not violate her Fourth Amendment rights. The Ninth Circuit's holding to the contrary appears premised on the assumption that the officers were required to have independent reasonable suspicion in order to so question Mena. However, this Court has "held repeatedly that mere police questioning does not constitute a seizure." Florida v. Bostick, 501 U. S. 429, 434. Because Mena's initial detention was lawful and the Ninth Circuit did not hold that the detention was prolonged by the questioning, there was no additional seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, and, therefore, no additional Fourth Amendment justification for inquiring about Mena's immigration status was required. Cf. Illinois v. Caballes, 543 U. S. ___ , ___ (slip op., at 2-4). Pp. 7-8.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=03-1423

 

Federal law, no reasonable suspicion required for checking the immigration status of anyone.

[phreakwars]

That's an election, of course you show'd ID. Your being ridiculous.

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Just out of curiosity, have you ever actually voted? You don't have to show ID in Nebraska to vote.

 

In fact, Democrats have long fought against any law that may require it in states that try to push these laws, and the ACLU immediately sues them.

Of course I have, and no, I didn't need to show I.D. but that law differs from state to state.

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[ImWithStupid]

In an alarming example of how sanctuary cities can protect terrorists, a Pakistani man arrested for the Time Square bombing admitted on a city license application that he entered the U.S. illegally and authorities took no action.

 

That’s because he applied for the cabbie license in a state (Massachusetts) that openly protects illegal immigrants from deportation. Local law enforcement agencies throughout Massachusetts have don’t-ask-don’t-tell policies regarding illegal aliens and in this case the Boston Police Department has for years known that the terrorist, So Pir Khan, was in the country illegally.

 

Khan was recently arrested in an FBI terror sweep for his involvement in the Time Square bombing earlier this month. The Boston cab driver is one of three men who funneled money to the fellow Pakistani terrorist (Faisal Shahzad) who tried to blow up New York’s Time Square with a series of bombs hidden in a sports utility vehicle.

 

When Khan applied for a license to drive a taxi, he admitted in writing that he had come to the United States illegally in 1991. The application was submitted to Boston Police but no action was ever taken. Khan easily obtained the cabbie license and regularly drove around one of the nation’s busiest airports with few restrictions. In fact the Boston Police Hackney Division approved Khan's license to drive a taxi

 

http://americaswatchtower.com/2010/05/19/accomplice-to-the-times-square-bomber-admitted-in-writing-to-the-boston-police-that-he-was-an-illegal-alien-in-1991-but-was-allowed-to-stay-in-the-country/

[eddo]

In an alarming example of how sanctuary cities can protect terrorists, a Pakistani man arrested for the Time Square bombing admitted on a city license application that he entered the U.S. illegally and authorities took no action.

 

That’s because he applied for the cabbie license in a state (Massachusetts) that openly protects illegal immigrants from deportation. Local law enforcement agencies throughout Massachusetts have don’t-ask-don’t-tell policies regarding illegal aliens and in this case the Boston Police Department has for years known that the terrorist, So Pir Khan, was in the country illegally.

 

Khan was recently arrested in an FBI terror sweep for his involvement in the Time Square bombing earlier this month. The Boston cab driver is one of three men who funneled money to the fellow Pakistani terrorist (Faisal Shahzad) who tried to blow up New York’s Time Square with a series of bombs hidden in a sports utility vehicle.

 

When Khan applied for a license to drive a taxi, he admitted in writing that he had come to the United States illegally in 1991. The application was submitted to Boston Police but no action was ever taken. Khan easily obtained the cabbie license and regularly drove around one of the nation’s busiest airports with few restrictions. In fact the Boston Police Hackney Division approved Khan's license to drive a taxi

 

http://americaswatchtower.com/2010/05/19/accomplice-to-the-times-square-bomber-admitted-in-writing-to-the-boston-police-that-he-was-an-illegal-alien-in-1991-but-was-allowed-to-stay-in-the-country/

 

wow...

 

just wow...