New Iran Sanctions?

[timesjoke]

New UN sanctions were announced today with Obama patting himself on the back for getting them passed but a closer look at what was passed and we see......nothing.

 

There is not one meaningful change to dealing with Iran, most of it is voluntary requests for other Nations not to do certain kinds of business with Iran and some of it's supporters. There are no teeth in this resolution so it is nothing.

 

 

More of the same weak crap from the weakest President to ever hold the office. We can impose our own sanctions without the UN if we wanted to, but this President has handed our security over to the UN to let them decide what we will and will not do.

[builder]

It's the Iranians who should never ever have anything to do with the US of A again. Never sell them oil for starters.

 

Read this article, and tell me why the sanctions should not be the other way round.

[timesjoke]

It's the Iranians who should never ever have anything to do with the US of A again. Never sell them oil for starters.

 

Contrary to popular belief, America does not get most of it's oil from Middle eastern sources, the vast majority of the imported oil comes from Canada, Saudi is next on the list but when you do the math and add up all the imported oil, things are more clear:

 

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

 

Iran is not even on the list, nothing Iran does with it's oil will even be noticed by America.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read this article, and tell me why the sanctions should not be the other way round.

 

Not sure what that has to do with sanctions imposed today for a Country ignoring the UN.

 

The main issue for the sanctions is how Iran is refusing to cooperate, if they had nothign to hide, why not allow the inspecters full access?

[wez]

Gee.. in one post you're talking about how the US should ignore the desire of the UN and how our President "handed over our security" to them.. then in the next you're talking about how Iran needs to be punished for defying the UN.. why the double standard for Iran, Louis? How does that work, Louis? Please explain.. Louis..

[timesjoke]

Gee.. in one post you're talking about how the US should ignore the desire of the UN and how our President "handed over our security" to them.. then in the next you're talking about how Iran needs to be punished for defying the UN.. why the double standard for Iran, Louis? How does that work, Louis? Please explain.. Louis..

I know your just trying to start a fight, you must be bored again but I will give an honest answer anway:

 

First of all, circumstances have nothing to do with each other, Iran having nuclear technology is an obvious security concern to America and pretty much everyone else in the world. We have to remember that almost all of the IED's used against Americans in Iraq came from Iran. If Iran does obtain the ability to produce nuclear weapons, they will share that ability with other radicals like them.

 

 

Secondly, the stibility of the leadership is easily in question, from their comments that there are no gay people in Iran to their commentary to wanting to destroy Israel they certainly do not inspire confidence in the ability to have this kind of power in their hands without doing something stupid with it. Remember that Iran has had a couple huge meetings with hundreds of "experts" where they have proclaimed that the Holocaust was all a hoax.

[wez]

Gee.. in one post you're talking about how the US should ignore the desire of the UN and how our President "handed over our security" to them.. then in the next you're talking about how Iran needs to be punished for defying the UN.. why the double standard for Iran, Louis? How does that work, Louis? Please explain.. Louis..

I know your just trying to start a fight, you must be bored again but I will give an honest answer anway:

 

First of all, circumstances have nothing to do with each other, Iran having nuclear technology is an obvious security concern to America and pretty much everyone else in the world. We have to remember that almost all of the IED's used against Americans in Iraq came from Iran. If Iran does obtain the ability to produce nuclear weapons, they will share that ability with other radicals like them.

 

 

Secondly, the stibility of the leadership is easily in question, from their comments that there are no gay people in Iran to their commentary to wanting to destroy Israel they certainly do not inspire confidence in the ability to have this kind of power in their hands without doing something stupid with it. Remember that Iran has had a couple huge meetings with hundreds of "experts" where they have proclaimed that the Holocaust was all a hoax.

 

Why is ok for us to have 1000's of nukes and they can't have 1?

 

You mean doing something stupid like using them to threaten people around the world with might = right who don't subscribe to your beliefs and actually dropping them on people like we do/did?

[timesjoke]

 

Why is ok for us to have 1000's of nukes and they can't have 1?

 

Becasue we are responsible enough to have them, they are not, they can't even hold an election without killing their own people.

 

 

 

You mean doing something stupid like using them to threaten people around the world with might = right who don't subscribe to your beliefs and actually dropping them on people like we do/did?

We dropped them in response to massive agression by Japan and ended a war, Iran would use them or give them to people to use them against peaceful people and innocents.

[wez]

Becasue we are responsible enough to have them, they are not, they can't even hold an election without killing their own people.

 

Prove it.. Poor excuse.. We had many a politician as well as citizens killed during and after elections.. Bobby Kennedy ring a bell? JFK? Honest Abe? Why the double standard for Iran, Louis?

 

Hypocrisy?

 

We dropped them in response to massive agression by Japan and ended a war, Iran would use them or give them to people to use them against peaceful people and innocents.

 

Peaceful people and innocents who are conducting 2 wars on their border for the past 2 decades and who also threatened to use tactical nuclear strikes against them, or else, Is that what ya mean, Louis?

[timesjoke]

 

Prove it.. Poor excuse.. We had many a politician as well as citizens killed during and after elections.. Bobby Kennedy ring a bell? JFK? Honest Abe? Why the double standard for Iran, Louis?

 

Hypocrisy?

 

Prove what? Did you not just see the recent violence against their own people Wez?

 

We are talking about the most distructive weapon imaginable here Wez, not a firecracker. The stibility of the leadership is certainly a viable consideration in these things.

 

I noticed you did not address my point about how this same leadership says there are no gays in Iran, do you believe that Wez? Don't you think making those kinds of comments and killing their own people for protesting the corrupted election says a lot about them?

 

 

Peaceful people and innocents who are conducting 2 wars on their border for the past 2 decades and who also threatened to use tactical nuclear strikes against them, or else, Is that what ya mean, Louis?

Wars that had nothing to do with them, they decided to insert themselves into them because they are unstable and felt compelled from their anger to do whatever they could to hurt America and company.

 

This is an important point Wez, we know they caused most of the insurgency in Iran, if they get the ability to create nuclear bombs, the bombs they create will be detonated.

 

 

 

 

The "big" powers having nukes all understand that mutual destruction is faced if they let the genie out of the bottle, radical crazy leaders like Ahmadinejad do not.

 

 

Quotes by Ahmadinejad:

 

“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,�

 

“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need.�

 

 

"In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I do not know who has told you that we have it."

 

 

Don't forget Wez, Ahmadinejad has said many times he believes he will be involved in the coming of the 12th Imam, not a good time to let him have nuclear weapons

[wez]

Prove what? Did you not just see the recent violence against their own people Wez?

 

We are talking about the most distructive weapon imaginable here Wez, not a firecracker. The stibility of the leadership is certainly a viable consideration in these things.

 

I noticed you did not address my point about how this same leadership says there are no gays in Iran, do you believe that Wez? Don't you think making those kinds of comments and killing their own people for protesting the corrupted election says a lot about them?

 

Ever seen the footage of the national guard murdering students for protesting at Kent State? Cops beating people senseless in Chicago at the Democratic national convention? Ever witnessed gay bashing here? Know who Andrew Shepard is.. I mean .. was?

 

Why the double standard Louis? What is.. don't ask/don't tell?

 

Interesting.. http://www.365gay.co...ulting-gay-man/

 

Course we have no corrupted officials.. do we Louis?

 

Sup?

 

Wars that had nothing to do with them, they decided to insert themselves into them because they are unstable and felt compelled from their anger to do whatever they could to hurt America and company.

 

This is an important point Wez, we know they caused most of the insurgency in Iran, if they get the ability to create nuclear bombs, the bombs they create will be detonated.

 

 

 

 

The "big" powers having nukes all understand that mutual destruction is faced if they let the genie out of the bottle, radical crazy leaders like Ahmadinejad do not.

 

 

Quotes by Ahmadinejad:

 

“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,�

 

“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need.�

 

 

"In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I do not know who has told you that we have it."

 

It can be backed up by nothing but hypocrisy Louis.. like I told you years ago..

 

Don't forget Wez, Ahmadinejad has said many times he believes he will be involved in the coming of the 12th Imam, not a good time to let him have nuclear weapons

 

Reminds me of Bush likening our invasion to biblical bullsh t and using the term "crusades" and claiming God told told him to do it..

 

George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

 

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

 

 

http://www.guardian....oct/07/iraq.usa

 

Did ya read builders article, Louis? Propaganda and lies I'm sure.. right Louis?

 

Seems to me the best way to end the tyranny would be for us to stop tyrannizing them like we have been for the past 1/2 century, eh Louis?

 

Why the double standard Louis?

[timesjoke]

Well Wez, if you have to reach way back to 1970 to find fault in what America had done I guess that proves we have come a long, long way to making things right. I never said we were perfect, just that we can handle the responsibility of having the nuclear weapons while a complete radical Country like Iran cannot.

 

 

 

Trying to compare one lie by a Palestinian politician busted who hated Bush to public and recorded comments of the fanatic Ahmadinejad proves why your never willing to have an honest debate. Everything I mentioned about the killings in Iran is happening now, not 40 years ago, add to that the population of America is so large that when you compare the number of incidents to the size of the Country you would have to show a similar event in America every week to bo close, and you can't show that Wez.

 

 

But there is two standards, one standard for those who can be trusted, and another for those who cannot.

 

 

Remember, I already forced you to admit you would be more than happy to use force to punnish someone who stole your stuff, you have no problem with force as long as that force is applied in ways that suit you, your only complaint is if force is used in ways you don't llike so using your own standards of measure, your more eaten up with hypocrisy than anyone else, lol.

[builder]

To save time, I'll reply in pretty green text.

 

 

 

It's the Iranians who should never ever have anything to do with the US of A again. Never sell them oil for starters.

 

Contrary to popular belief, America does not get most of it's oil from Middle eastern sources, the vast majority of the imported oil comes from Canada, Saudi is next on the list but when you do the math and add up all the imported oil, things are more clear:

 

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

 

Since the overthrow of the Shah of Iran, a US puppet, you're right, No OIL from IRAN. Do I need to revise your own history for you?

 

Iran is not even on the list, nothing Iran does with it's oil will even be noticed by America.

Iran decided to not trade it's own oil in US dollars, meaning Petro dollars. Now the US propaganda machine is saying the same shite it used to invade Iraq. WMD's. Funnily enough, Iraq was planning to trade its own oil in euros. Do I need to show you links? There's only a few thousand of them for you to choose from.

 

 

 

 

Read this article, and tell me why the sanctions should not be the other way round.

 

Not sure what that has to do with sanctions imposed today for a Country ignoring the UN.

 

It's about their oil being traded in euros rather than US dollars. Need I reiterate?

 

The main issue for the sanctions is how Iran is refusing to cooperate, if they had nothign to hide, why not allow the inspecters full access?

Countries that are not tied to the US monopoly on oil trading are providing Iran with a profitable outlet for their oil. Deny it all you like. The facts are all over the web. But I'll be kind and give you a clue; fox noos won't tell you a thing.

[timesjoke]

I seem to remember wackos also claiming America was invading Iraq to steal the oil, and did that happen?

 

First you claim Iran should not sell America oil and when I point out they don't, then you go sideways and come up with new claims, now you claim the world is only concerned with the nuclear weapons program in Iran because they want to sell their oil for a different currency. Do you recall a lot of drama connected to the north korea nuclear weapons development? How much oil are they selling for a different currency Builder?

 

The amount of oil sold by Iran is nothing, they can trade it any way they want and it will not have a single negative effect on America. This is classic misdirection on your part Builder, you try to get people to look past the fact that every expert agrees that Iran is trying to produce nuclear weapons, even Wez is not refuting that fact and is only trying to say it is fair for them to have them if America has them.

 

 

There is no oil conspiracy, but guess what, if there was one do you know the best way to eliminate the need for a conspiracy? To drill for more oil right here at home, but the radical liberals won't let us increase our own supply, in fact right now the radicals are trying to severely reduce our future supply and if that does happen, that means more dependence on foreign oil and a richer soil for the bad weeds of politics to grow and possibly create these kinds of conspiracies you seem to be saying is bad.

[builder]

I seem to remember wackos also claiming America was invading Iraq to steal the oil, and did that happen?

 

Not to "steal" the oil. To stop the oil being traded in anything other than petrodollars. Simply bomb the nation into the dark ages, why else would schools, hospitals, power plants be bombed?/then prop up a fledging "democracy" and start the whole process again.

 

 

 

First you claim Iran should not sell America oil and when I point out they don't,

 

And I point out why they don't, and you ignore the facts. They did, and now they don't. And the reasons why they don't are historical fact, rather than propaganda.

 

 

then you go sideways and come up with new claims, now you claim the world is only concerned with the nuclear weapons program in Iran because they want to sell their oil for a different currency.

 

The world isn't concerned. You are. Remove the petrodollar from world oil trade, and your baseless US dollar will plummet, along with the massive holding of US bonds held by the Chinese, the Japanese, and any other nation who was conned into receiving them in lieu of real money.

 

 

Do you recall a lot of drama connected to the north korea nuclear weapons development? How much oil are they selling for a different currency Builder?

 

 

North Korea is another hit and run war victim of US foreign policy. They've learned how to manipulate the situation to suit themselves. If they were a real threat, or had any real assets, they would be up for regime change too.

 

The amount of oil sold by Iran is nothing, they can trade it any way they want and it will not have a single negative effect on America.

 

So what is the issue? The fact that a formerly advancing economic and democratic nation got fukked over by your See Eye Yay, and sent back to the dark ages, emerging as an islamic threat? They have their own agenda, and your gov has no control over them any more. Boohoo,.

 

 

This is classic misdirection on your part Builder, you try to get people to look past the fact that every expert agrees that Iran is trying to produce nuclear weapons,

 

So they should. Israel wants to bomb them into oblivion, and so does every redneck arsehole in your misguided redneck enclave. Sixty years ago, Iran was a hugely successful developing democracy. The actions of your gov sent them back to the dark ages. Wear the consequences.

 

 

even Wez is not refuting that fact and is only trying to say it is fair for them to have them if America has them.

 

They'll have them. They'll use them like every other nation that has them. People in glass houses don't throw stones.

 

There is no oil conspiracy, but guess what, if there was one do you know the best way to eliminate the need for a conspiracy? To drill for more oil right here at home,

 

Off topic. We have the technology to keep satelites orbiting the earth for a century without oil. Out infrastructure is set up to process, store, distribute, and profit from, oil. Until we break that grip, by promoting and investing in, alternatives, we will be warring over the black sh t for a while yet.

 

 

 

but the radical liberals won't let us increase our own supply,

 

Listen to yourself, buddy. Radical liberals have a name? or names? Or are they a physical wall of people with placards and chants?

 

 

 

in fact right now the radicals are trying to severely reduce our future supply and if that does happen, that means more dependence on foreign oil

 

You're backpedalling. Your gov wages war for oil, which you deny, but you don't want to send rigs to other countries. You want that dirty oil washing up on your pristine wetlands regardless of the risks.

 

 

and a richer soil for the bad weeds of politics to grow and possibly create these kinds of conspiracies you seem to be saying is bad.

 

Man, I can understand why you end up talking to just wez here. Tell me you read what you type, please. :blink:

[wez]

Well Wez, if you have to reach way back to 1970 to find fault in what America had done I guess that proves we have come a long, long way to making things right. I never said we were perfect, just that we can handle the responsibility of having the nuclear weapons while a complete radical Country like Iran cannot.

 

Ya know TJ.. I'd like to believe that we stand on moral high ground as much as the next idiot but the fact is, we don't. Quite the opposite. I don't think people in Iran ever staged a coup to overthrow our government.. You're all about truth no matter how ugly, right Louis?

 

Trying to compare one lie by a Palestinian politician busted who hated Bush to public and recorded comments of the fanatic Ahmadinejad proves why your never willing to have an honest debate. Everything I mentioned about the killings in Iran is happening now, not 40 years ago, add to that the population of America is so large that when you compare the number of incidents to the size of the Country you would have to show a similar event in America every week to bo close, and you can't show that Wez.

 

What would you suggest doing to a country that overthrew our government 57 years ago and told us what to do on a continuing basis, or else?

 

But there is two standards, one standard for those who can be trusted, and another for those who cannot.

 

Spoken like a true hypocrite.. Iran is largely the way it is today because of things we've done to them in the past 57 years, just like builder pointed out. If you were them, would you have anything but hatred and contempt for us, let alone trust?

 

You have hatred and contempt for them for doing what? Making threats? You wanna punish them for what? Trying to make a nuclear weapon? Yeah.. I guess I wouldn't want someone I been f cking over for 57 years having the capability to stand up to me either and say, no f cking more on your terms, if I was a hypocrite, that is.

 

Remember, I already forced you to admit you would be more than happy to use force to punnish someone who stole your stuff, you have no problem with force as long as that force is applied in ways that suit you, your only complaint is if force is used in ways you don't llike so using your own standards of measure, your more eaten up with hypocrisy than anyone else, lol.

 

You just described yourself.. You're the one who has no problem with applying force as long as it suits and yours.. your only complaint is when it's used in ways you don't like, by people you don't like, in the exact same manner you justify. How does that jive in church on Sunday? You're always on the good side of the double standard, eh? How convenient..

 

If what you say is true, why would I say that Iran has the same rights to use force as we do? How would that suit me? Ya think I want a nuke dropped on my country?

 

Here's my standard of measure..

What is ok for you to do to another human being is ok for every other human being to do to you. ~ wez

 

Where's the hypocrisy in that?

 

What's your standard of measure, Louis?

[timesjoke]

 

 

Not to "steal" the oil. To stop the oil being traded in anything other than petrodollars. Simply bomb the nation into the dark ages, why else would schools, hospitals, power plants be bombed?/then prop up a fledging "democracy" and start the whole process again.

 

Your not making any sense, nobody has waged any war over how they sell their oil, I have no idea where your trying to go now, what were we talking about?

 

Are we talking about Iran? Because you seem determined to keep directing attention away from the fact that all of this is caused by Iran developing nuclear weapons, how about we keep to the fact instead of unproven conspiracy theories created by a lot of paranoid people?

 

 

 

 

And I point out why they don't, and you ignore the facts. They did, and now they don't. And the reasons why they don't are historical fact, rather than propaganda.

 

Wait a second, there you go again, you said:

 

It's the Iranians who should never ever have anything to do with the US of A again. Never sell them oil for starters.

 

That implied that Iran was selling America oil so I corrected you then after I showed you that America does not buy oil from Iran suddenly your trying to talk about what currency they sell oil for, none of that has anything to do with their nuclear weapon program Buildre, how about we talk about that, it is sort of the topic of the thread.

 

 

 

The world isn't concerned. You are. Remove the petrodollar from world oil trade, and your baseless US dollar will plummet, along with the massive holding of US bonds held by the Chinese, the Japanese, and any other nation who was conned into receiving them in lieu of real money.

 

Again, I have nothign to do with any of it, it is the international comunity and independent groups who all agree Iran is developing weapons and most of those people don't care what currency oil is sold at so your conspiracy theory does not hold water.

 

But while your so high on your horse looking down your nose at America remember that the entire world is connected to each other, when the Euro was in trouble recently and the US markets were hurting the entire world felt the pain, we are connected so while your wishinf evil on America remember that your also wishing evil on yourself and your loved ones at the same time.

 

 

North Korea is another hit and run war victim of US foreign policy. They've learned how to manipulate the situation to suit themselves. If they were a real threat, or had any real assets, they would be up for regime change too.

 

But we are still working and always have been dealing with sanctions on North Korea for their nuclear program, just like Iran, but North Kore is not trying to sell oil for a different currency, so again, there goes your crackpot theory of conspiracy right out the window. What does North Korea have that America wants?

 

Nothing, and yet we are working just as hard on them so obviously it is about nuclear weapons and the damage they can do, not oil.

 

 

 

So what is the issue? The fact that a formerly advancing economic and democratic nation got fukked over by your See Eye Yay, and sent back to the dark ages, emerging as an islamic threat? They have their own agenda, and your gov has no control over them any more. Boohoo,.

 

More than America is scared of Iran having nukes.

 

This has nothing to do with economics or oil, Iran is a speck of sand on the beach, they are insignificant in every way on the world stage but they have a leader who believes he is going to bring in the age of the 12th imam, and nuclear weapons are just one of the tools he needs for that.

 

 

So they should. Israel wants to bomb them into oblivion, and so does every redneck arsehole in your misguided redneck enclave. Sixty years ago, Iran was a hugely successful developing democracy. The actions of your gov sent them back to the dark ages. Wear the consequences.

 

If Israel wanted to drop a bomb on them they would already have done it. Think about something though Builder, really think about this, up to now Israel has held their hand, but once Iran has the ability to follow through with their threat to wipe Israel off the map, suddenly they have a decision to make, do they let Iran attack them with their nuclear weapon or should they strike first?

 

I think I saw you say you were a parent, if you had to make that choice to let your children possibly die or to strike first, what would you decide?

 

Me, I would hate to make that decision, but I would not let them kill my family and fellow countrymen and do nothing.

 

 

They'll have them. They'll use them like every other nation that has them. People in glass houses don't throw stones.

 

Like every other Nation that has them?

 

Help me out with that one, other then America, what Countries currently that have nukes have attacked someone with them?

 

 

Your right about one thing, if Iran gets them they will use them, through passing them to someone else most likely, and that is what will seperate them from everyone else, those who currently have them know mutual destruction is the only real result to their use but radicals like Iran will not be restrained from their use.

 

 

Off topic. We have the technology to keep satelites orbiting the earth for a century without oil. Out infrastructure is set up to process, store, distribute, and profit from, oil. Until we break that grip, by promoting and investing in, alternatives, we will be warring over the black sh t for a while yet.

 

We also have huge systems for the fast food industry, why? Because that is what people want, even the most vocal advocate for alternatives is himself burning up fossil fules flying his private plane all over the world (Al Gore), this man uses more fossil fules than 100 average Americans all by himself but he at the same time preaches how "everyone else" should cut back.

 

Man caused global warming is a hoax designed to make the few elite like him a lot of money and give certain groups political power.

 

 

But, no matter what direction we take from today, we cannot get away from oil overnight and we have to admit the one basic fact that if Governments force this to happen outside of free markets, it will be the poor who will suffer the most from their unnatural change.

 

 

Listen to yourself, buddy. Radical liberals have a name? or names? Or are they a physical wall of people with placards and chants?

 

In America they are liberals, in europe they would be called socialists, the general theme is they want to stifle free markets, punnish success, and ask for the Government to live their lives for them. These liberals are now wanting to reduce oil production in America when our population explosion is increasing our need for oil so what does logic tell us?

 

 

Logic tells us that if we need more, we will be getting that extra oil from other sources, making us weaker to foreign oil concerns. I like the idea of alternatives, but not at the expense of severely hurting the poor just to buy political clout and make a few elitists like Al Gore richer.

 

 

 

You're backpedalling. Your gov wages war for oil, which you deny, but you don't want to send rigs to other countries. You want that dirty oil washing up on your pristine wetlands regardless of the risks.

 

We don't wage war for oil, it is out there for sale and we buy it, most of it from Canada so why would we need to wage oil for something we can easily obtain?

 

As far as oil washing up, sure it happens, hard to make paper without cutting down a tree. We will get through this like we get through everything, almost all great inventions are the result of great need, this will not be an exception, good things will fly out of these ashes, the pain will be dealt with and the people of America will go on, we always do.

 

 

 

Man, I can understand why you end up talking to just wez here. Tell me you read what you type, please. :blink:

lol, no need for the sideways shots, I mostly ignore Wez because most of the time he ruins a good point he is wanting to make with crazy stuff.........kind of like your attempt to try and make the Iran sanctions all about oil sales, it really does not make sense to try and ignore the reality and instead try and insert stuff that has no real basis in fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will say this to both of you guys, yes, America was involved in some things that could be seen as bad with Iran, but that does not give them the right to create and distribute nuclear weapons all over the world as revenge. Any nuclear weapons that are produced will be used in the usual terrorist targets, innocent children will die and not my children, they even if they get a weapon into America they would never waste it on a small city like Gainesville, Florida, no they will hit a big city and get maximum damage if they can but the most likely first targets will be against Israel, Europe, even Australia would be a prime target as punnishment for their help in Iraq and other things, no, America will not be the biggest to be hurt.

 

Once nuclear weapons are unleashed, look for a whole new world to emerge, Hitler was ignored and pacified and we see what happened with ignoring the threat he represented, sticking your head in the sand will not solve anything.

 

 

 

 

Wez, most of your post was rehashing already covered stuff or more attempts to flame and start a fight but let me offer you one point:

 

 

An adult can legally dring booze, a child can't. An adult can take a test to drive a car, a child can't. An adult can join the military, a child can't.

 

 

Different rules for different levels of ability or maturity, not hypocrisy. Even Builder just admitted that Iran is now stuck in the dark ages, they do not possess the maturity and self control to be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. We do stand on the high ground, some of that ground is built up on the dead bodies of our mistakes, I admit that, but what is the alternative? Do we stand frozen with inaction, refusing to do the right thing just because someone can point their finger at us for some long past mistake?

 

We can't live in the past Wez, we have made mistakes but letting those mistakes tear us down would be an even bigger mistake.

[wez]

 

Different rules for different levels of ability or maturity, not hypocrisy. Even Builder just admitted that Iran is now stuck in the dark ages, they do not possess the maturity and self control to be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. We do stand on the high ground, some of that ground is built up on the dead bodies of our mistakes, I admit that, but what is the alternative? Do we stand frozen with inaction, refusing to do the right thing just because someone can point their finger at us for some long past mistake?

 

We can't live in the past Wez, we have made mistakes but letting those mistakes tear us down would be an even bigger mistake.

 

 

Whatever TJ... it is hypocrisy.. we stand on no high ground.. we take the low road and cry foul when it blows up in our face..

 

The alternative would be honesty, integrity, and admitting the truth, like you just did. A bigger mistake would be continuing with might = right business as usual, like you've been advocating for.

[wez]

 

We do stand on the high ground, some of that ground is built up on the dead bodies of our mistakes, I admit that..

 

 

Did you just actually say that? Really? That's high ground to stand on? I think I'll step down.. you can keep it, cap'n morality.

 

So.. you're ok with Iran making mistakes and standing on the high ground of the bodies of you and your children.. enough said.

[eddo]

An adult can legally dring booze, a child can't. An adult can take a test to drive a car, a child can't. An adult can join the military, a child can't.

 

Different rules for different levels of ability or maturity, not hypocrisy.

... Iran is now stuck in the dark ages, they do not possess the maturity and self control to be allowed to possess nuclear weapons.

 

excellent point.

[timesjoke]

An adult can legally dring booze, a child can't. An adult can take a test to drive a car, a child can't. An adult can join the military, a child can't.

 

Different rules for different levels of ability or maturity, not hypocrisy.

... Iran is now stuck in the dark ages, they do not possess the maturity and self control to be allowed to possess nuclear weapons.

 

excellent point.

Thanks