Computer Crimes

[ryans]

Computer crimes are a hot topic right now. But how can you prosecute someone for a "crime" that is done in a virtual realm. for this topic please use this example......

 

a website is being run from the usa...files on a german server...of pictures taken in iraq....these said pictures are not illegal to be taken in iraq....but are illegal to store in the usa but not in germany.

 

How can the law say that the person in the usa is doing something wrong...No law is being broken in any of the 3 countries....but combined they are. However the individual actions taken place in each country are withen the law.

[timesjoke]

While viewing the pictures, these files do make it to America even if just temp files and cashing files, technically you did store them locally.

[ImWithStupid]

Most cyber-crimes are prosecuted only after the information/image/etc... is disseminated from a particular computer.

[ryans]

Yes but a website can be run entirely from the net...on a remote conection...the pictures would never be on your computer in the usa......and go one step further...a place holder can be used never even viewing the pictures. but you do have the knowledge that they are there.

[eddo]

me thinks this is less about Iraq pics and more about kiddie porn...

[timesjoke]

me thinks this is less about Iraq pics and more about kiddie porn...

I am starting to agree with you.

 

If your providing a vessel for these illegal images to travel through your computer and on to other users then you certainly have committed the crime.

 

 

I have a question for you, what ever happened to adults taking responsibility for their own actions? It seems that the new American dream is "how can I get away with sh!t". I have no sympathy for someone who knows they are helping to distribute illegal images and are just trying to skirt the law and get away with it.

 

 

Your distributing the illegal images, period. If I was on a jury listening to that weak defense I would shake my head at how stupid the guy must think people are and find him guilty in the shortest time allowed.

 

 

Hell, your openly admitting you know it was wrong by going through the special and complex actions to try and create the "appearance" of being legal. If you thought spreading the images around was okay why go through so many hoops and twists? No, you know your breaking the law and your involved in the spreading of illegal images, so the person in question needs to be held accountable.

[ryans]

yes u r correct....the example is about "kiddie porn"....but it is just an example.....im just trying to see what others think of how u can attempt to convict a crime that never occured in the first place. dont get it wrong....i do not aprove of child porn....i am simply making a point

[jokersarewild]

yes u r correct....the example is about "kiddie porn"....but it is just an example.....im just trying to see what others think of how u can attempt to convict a crime that never occured in the first place. dont get it wrong....i do not aprove of child porn....i am simply making a point

But your point is quite flawed.

 

Again, as Times said, any picture you view online ends up being stored locally, at least temporarily. Which means if there were a site that posted "kiddie porn", when you went to it, any images of such things that it showed would end up in your temp internet files folder.

 

Also, the crime occurred. Simply saying "Well, the kiddie porn site is on a foreign server, so it's ok for me to look at it." No, it's not. In the slightest. You're still attempting to view pictures that are illegal. It is a crime. It's why, if they were to search your computer, they could say "Hey, this guy has kiddie porn websites in his history", and arrest you, since they have proof of you doing this.

 

I do have to wonder how you assume no crime is committed here.

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002252---A000-.html

 

(a) Any person who—

(2) knowingly receives, or distributes, any visual depiction using any means or facility of interstate or foreign commerce or that has been mailed, or has been shipped or transported in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, or which contains materials which have been mailed or so shipped or transported, by any means including by computer, or knowingly reproduces any visual depiction for distribution using any means or facility of interstate or foreign commerce or in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce or through the mails, if—

(A) the producing of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and

(B ) such visual depiction is of such conduct;

 

(goes on to state punishment. Minimum 5 years in jail + fines)

I could easily make the case that, if you go to that website constantly, you knowingly receive such images, through your computer.

 

And since your computer downloads them, you're knowingly storing child pornography on your computer, which means you're going to jail, buddy. You committed a crime.

[timesjoke]

yes u r correct....the example is about "kiddie porn"....but it is just an example.....im just trying to see what others think of how u can attempt to convict a crime that never occured in the first place. dont get it wrong....i do not aprove of child porn....i am simply making a point

Look, it is really pretty simple, your intentionally creating a distribution point for kiddie porn, that is illegal:

 

knowingly receives' date=' or [u']distributes[/u], any visual depiction using any means or facility

 

You not only did it but you did it knowingly and intentionally. You broke the law and it's spirit for maintaining a reasonable and polite society. The object of laws is not supposed to be to protect those who want to hurt society, and in this case you want to make money or promote the horrible abuse of children.

 

 

Again, I have no compassion on those who know they are doing wrong but try to twist the laws to try and make their intentional bad behavior appear okay.

[ImWithStupid]

Hey ryans,

 

It seems that if you want your kiddie porn, you just need to work for the Department of Defense...

 

 

Pentagon declined to investigate hundreds of purchases of child pornography

By John Cook john Cook Fri Sep 3, 10:30 am ET

 

[attach=full]2957[/attach]

 

 

 

A 2006 Immigration and Customs Enforcement investigation into the purchase of child pornography online turned up more than 250 civilian and military employees of the Defense Department -- including some with the highest available security clearance -- who used credit cards or PayPal to purchase images of children in sexual situations. But the Pentagon investigated only a handful of the cases, Defense Department records show.

 

The cases turned up during a 2006 ICE inquiry, called Project Flicker, which targeted overseas processing of child-porn payments. As part of the probe, ICE investigators gained access to the names and credit card information of more than 5,000 Americans who had subscribed to websites offering images of child pornography. Many of those individuals provided military email addresses or physical addresses with Army or fleet ZIP codes when they purchased the subscriptions.

 

In a related inquiry, the Pentagon's Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS) cross-checked the ICE list against military databases to come up with a list of Defense employees and contractors who appeared to be guilty of purchasing child pornography. The names included staffers for the secretary of defense, contractors for the ultra-secretive National Security Agency, and a program manager at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. But the DCIS opened investigations into only 20 percent of the individuals identified, and succeeded in prosecuting just a handful.

 

[atlantic]

yes u r correct....the example is about "kiddie porn"....but it is just an example.....im just trying to see what others think of how u can attempt to convict a crime that never occured in the first place. dont get it wrong....i do not aprove of child porn....i am simply making a point

When you are referring to "k I can't even say it porn", someone initiated then ENABLED this to happen and be viewed, therefore prosecutable. Also, don't think that the right hand of GOD won't come down on you at some point if you are involved. Also, what kind of sick fucks enjoy this thing. Seems to me they are all ugly, homely, losers who couldn't get a date in a whorehouse. Someone who is so pathetic they have to hurt an innocent little helpless child to feel big and powerful because they are NOT - go fucking hang yourselves so you can burn in hell.

[ryans]

time and jokersarewild....u make a great point and u backed that pointn up with great examples.......i bow to ur superior skills.....but i will be back in 2 weeks time with a fully prepared debate...to all those who wish to join....

[eddo]

time and jokersarewild....u make a great point and u backed that pointn up with great examples.......i bow to ur superior skills.....but i will be back in 2 weeks time with a fully prepared debate...to all those who wish to join....

 

wonders if ryans if from Washington State...

[atlantic]

time and jokersarewild....u make a great point and u backed that pointn up with great examples.......i bow to ur superior skills.....but i will be back in 2 weeks time with a fully prepared debate...to all those who wish to join....

 

wonders if ryans if from Washington State...

OMG Eddo, my first gut reaction thought was the same thought as yours. I can't take anymore cyber attacks. I'll be leaving this one alone - forget that.

[jokersarewild]

time and jokersarewild....u make a great point and u backed that pointn up with great examples.......i bow to ur superior skills.....but i will be back in 2 weeks time with a fully prepared debate...to all those who wish to join....

looks at Times So, uh...didn't we already prove it's illegal? Thought we did.

 

Also, Ryans, is the two weeks when your Russian kiddie porn dealer is going to post your bail?

[ryans]

time and jokersarewild....u make a great point and u backed that pointn up with great examples.......i bow to ur superior skills.....but i will be back in 2 weeks time with a fully prepared debate...to all those who wish to join....

looks at Times So, uh...didn't we already prove it's illegal? Thought we did.

 

Also, Ryans, is the two weeks when your Russian kiddie porn dealer is going to post your bail?

 

 

 

now that is uncalled for......about a russian kiddie porn dealer.......i presented an argument....didnt prepare....and got bested by times and jokersare wild.....also.....i respect them for not resorting to insults....wont point fingers but u know what i mean......and 2 weeks is time for me to prepare the right way....and i am not from washington state...

[timesjoke]

time and jokersarewild....u make a great point and u backed that pointn up with great examples.......i bow to ur superior skills.....but i will be back in 2 weeks time with a fully prepared debate...to all those who wish to join....

looks at Times So, uh...didn't we already prove it's illegal? Thought we did.

 

Also, Ryans, is the two weeks when your Russian kiddie porn dealer is going to post your bail?

 

I have no real idea what he think he will come back with in two weeks unless he will use that time to comb through the internet for all the great comments supporting the right to have/display kiddie porn then come back here to copy/paste their words being as his was too inferior to get the job done to his satisfaction.

 

 

 

To me the legal system has been hijacked by lawyers looking to make a lot of money from the confusion they created. The legal system was never intended to protect scum who have expensive lawyers, it was intended to create a solid foundation for safe and responsible comunities. Today not only have we turned our backs on personal responsibility, but we have also lost our comunities in the majority of towns.

 

 

Today it is all about what we can get away with.......a real shame.

[atlantic]

time and jokersarewild....u make a great point and u backed that pointn up with great examples.......i bow to ur superior skills.....but i will be back in 2 weeks time with a fully prepared debate...to all those who wish to join....

looks at Times So, uh...didn't we already prove it's illegal? Thought we did.

 

Also, Ryans, is the two weeks when your Russian kiddie porn dealer is going to post your bail?

 

 

 

now that is uncalled for......about a russian kiddie porn dealer.......i presented an argument....didnt prepare....and got bested by times and jokersare wild.....also.....i respect them for not resorting to insults....wont point fingers but u know what i mean......and 2 weeks is time for me to prepare the right way....and i am not from washington state...

Blah, blah. You are only insulted if you have done something wrong, and I know you are not from Washington. I have noticed you elsewhere. Nice way of drawing attention to yourself though.

[ryans]

atlantic....how have u noticed me elsewere.....and i have given up on the computer crimes topic.....as i said.....i didnt prepare and just threw something out......2 weeks is time to find a good topic.....find my materials on it.....and debate.....

[atlantic]

Now why would I tell you that? :ninja:

[jokersarewild]

atlantic....how have u noticed me elsewere.....and i have given up on the computer crimes topic.....as i said.....i didnt prepare and just threw something out......2 weeks is time to find a good topic.....find my materials on it.....and debate.....

There was a "Computer Crimes" topic? Hell, I thought it was "Is it legal for me to have Kiddie Porn on my computer in the US?" topic. Which, either way, it wasn't a debate, it was just us going "NO!" and quoting law.