Head in the sand fuckers.

[Hamza123]

Wow, off the chart alternate reality. Muslims are conducting Genocide upon Muslims, so you

[Hamza123]

[quote=Jhony5[

I posted a link to pictures that undoubtedly show Boeing 757 aircraft fragments all over in plain sight, and you don]747[/size].

 

Although the outside of the plane may burn, the inside fram is virtually indestructable.

 

I want to see it.

 

Show me a photo.

[Jhony5]

What a lame-arsed fucking photo. Looks like something out of an old MASH rerun. What the fuck is that supposed to prove, you fucking idiot? An arrow pointing to a roof? Where the fuck is that pic supposed to be from?

Its goes much farther then the pictures you have supplied to support your argument, pal.

 

Posted by Hamhead:

Although the outside of the plane may burn, the inside fram is virtually indestructible.

You obviously need some education in aircraft frame construction.

Buddy, IT'S A FUCKING 747.

uhh.. no its not.

Posted by builder:

Fuck you idiot. Show me three holes where two six ton engines entered the Pentagon each side of the fuselage

There is no requirement for this. Three holes would not necessarily be present. Your assuming this on your own accord.

Fuck you idiot

At least your keeping a cool head. Lets both try and return to being civil. I apologies for the 'tinhat' comments.

[builder]

What? A few craps? A rim?

 

Buddy, IT'S A FUCKING 747.

 

Although the outside of the plane may burn, the inside fram is virtually indestructable.

 

I want to see it.

 

Show me a photo.

 

Damn, I had 747 in several posts here, and changed it to suit the plebs.

 

Thanx dude.

[builder]

Its goes much farther then the pictures you have supplied to support your argument, pal.

 

What pictures? I posted links that you didn't bother to read.

 

Posted by builder:

There is no requirement for this. Three holes would not necessarily be present. Your assuming this on your own accord.

 

I'm positing an undeniable physical fact, and you are avoiding it like the plague.. Nothing unusual in that. You know I'm right, so you change tack, and try elsewhere.

 

At least your keeping a cool head. Lets both try and return to being civil. I apologies for the 'tinhat' comments.

 

Naah, fuck that shit. This is GF. Gloves off time. You're a fucking twinky.

 

Be a man and own up to knowing that your gov is complicit, and do something fucking positive about it, for a fucking change.

[snafu]

Oh, shit. you asked me to respond to your lame-arsed fucking photo, snatchfood, and I did. That's not even the fucking Pentagon in that pic. Is that a packing yard in Wisconsin?

Okay I'll give you that one. It was a pretty lame pic. The others showing the titamium wheels and such are much better. But they didnt' take the pic's in someones back yard.

 

After all how many back yards are littered with boeing 747 parts.

[builder]

Okay I'll give you that one. It was a pretty lame pic. The others showing the titamium wheels and such are much better. But they didnt' take the pic's in someones back yard.

 

After all how many back yards are littered with boeing 747 parts.

 

For fuck's sake, snafu, photos are not even evidence these days. How many pics have you photo-shopped here?

 

I could show you a pic of my freckle, and swear blind that it's really Jonny Holmes' freckle.

 

How ya gonna say it's not really his?

[Hamza123]

"I want it 9/11 TO SEEM like an Islamic terrorist attack". My god thats horrible. You've got to be kidding me right? Why do Americans have disdain for Muslims in general.

 

Because you're mainstream media is just a branch of your fucked up government.

 

It wants to portray Muslims as evil for their own agenda, and thats war. And when war is profitable, you will see war.

 

 

I can't believe you will follow your twisted faith so fucking blindly

 

I run my life. Not Islam. My wife doesn't have to be a Muslim. She won't wear a Burka. I don't eat Ham or Drink Alcohal. I don't smoke weed. I go to the Mosque once in a while. I celebrate Ramadan and Eid. I love to live my life and I believe in god. So you can go fuck yourself front, back, and side to side. You don't tell me what I follow and how I follow it.

 

that you are prepared to make such egregious accusations with no basis whatsoever. Just double talking hearsay bullshit spewing from your keyboard.

 

Think again. Who is making the "eregious accusation" here. You do it to my believes and you also like to frame Muslims for 9/11. I even heard someone on here who wanted Muslims to apologize for 9/11. Well. We're sorry you're so jacked up Bush's ass you can't see or hear anyone else.

 

I posted a link to pictures that undoubtedly show Boeing 757 aircraft fragments all over in plain sight, and you don't have the balls to even address it.

You didn't even try to dispute it. Why? Because you can't, thats why.

 

It's been disputed in my other posts.

 

You have yet to even say anything on Loose Change. Why? Because you know the guys at Popular Mechanics are right. And the movie makes you shit your pants.

 

 

God dam your easy to unravel. I was clowin on ya jerkass.

 

Ohhh, quit playin home boy - FAG!.

 

You're so easy to unravel for Bush. You mine'as well just sell your soul to him and dig a few holes.

 

What "conclusions" did I jump to? Why is it irrational for me to think and claim that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon? How in the fuck does that qualify for the description of "jumping to conclusions". With all the mountains of real tangible evidence (AND DON'T FUCKING ASK WHAT EVIDENCE, I PROVIDED ASS-TONS OF IT), its somehow irrational for me to believe that what was reported to have occurred, actually did. You act like somehow I'm so transfixed on my glorious leaders propaganda, that I can't make a simple judgment on my own accord. I don't believe what I do because George Bush told me to, I believe it because there is not one reason why I shouldn't.

 

No reason? SEELOOSECHANGE.COM!! Google the fucking shit. Watch testimonials of the JANITOR THAT SAVED LIVES!! I would rather believe the masses of Americans than BUSH. So anyways, while the propoganda from your fucked up government keeps spewing, you can slurp it up and just keep posting your bullshit.

 

Maybe because I'm not blinded by faith.

 

Are you sure? Bushslam is where its at. Bushtian is worse.

 

Flat out, Hamza, you say you believe the Pentagon was destroyed by the Bush administration because you want to believe this. It fits your agenda. Never mind that its all fantasy with no basis.

 

Again. Science HAS basis. Facts have basis. The Towers were built to stand fucking hurricanes and 10x the weight of the fucking planes.

 

I will believe what I think is right HOWEVER, there is a difference between what I think is right, and what I saw with my own eyes. And not what others tell me what happened. I don't jump on the band-wagon just because of Bush.

 

You can't because you know I would rip you apart for even trying to argue it.

 

In a debate? HAHAHAHAHAH. Stop trying to make yourself seem like Scarface. You're just a fucking follower of your juiced up governement.

 

If you want to stare at one zoomed in picture of a 13 foot diameter hole and scratch your head asking "where is the plane then, huh", well keep doing so.

 

DUMBASS!!

 

Here, prove this wrong. It has to do with a taxi cab, the light poles outside the Pentagon, and the plane.

 

http://911review.org/brad.com/pentagon_taxi_moved.html

 

Holes appear bigger when zoomed.

 

Okay. Heres others than pussy.

 

http://keyholepublishing.com/pentagon-hole.jpg

 

---

 

If Flight 77 had crash landed, and skidded into the Pentagon...

 

It would have looked like this.

 

http://www.loosechange911.com/img/evidence/pentagon/lc2e_pentagon11.jpg

 

Instead, it looked like this, without a single scratch on the lawn.

 

http://www.loosechange911.com/img/evidence/pentagon/lc2e_pentagon13.jpg

 

Third, the light poles. (A few days before, a Cessna crashed into a light pole, exactly like the ones at the pentagon and it shattered without taking out the light pole).

 

On November 22nd, 2004, a private jet en route to Houston to pick up George Bush Senior clipped a single light pole and crashed a minute away from landing at Houston's Hobby Airport.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2004/11/22/build/nation/64-jet-crash_v.inc

 

The wing ripped off upon impact, scattering debris over 100 yards.

 

And yet, Flight 77 managed to tear 5 light poles completely out of the ground, without damaging either the wings or light poles themselves. Instead, they seem to have just popped out of the ground.

 

Fourth, why is there absolutely no trace of Flight 77?

 

Cnn's Jamie McIntyre was reporting live from the Pentagon, and describes exactly how much of the plane is left...

 

http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/video.html

 

 

 

http://www.loosechange911.com/img/evidence/pentagon/lc2e_pentagon65.jpg

 

Oh and the flyer of the plane?

 

Hani Hanjour as a Cessna 172 pilot would have dealt with this.

 

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/cessna.jpg

 

At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., 20 miles west of Washington, flight instructor Sheri Baxter instantly recognized the name of alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour when the FBI released a list of 19 suspects in the four hijackings. Hanjour, the only suspect on Flight 77 the FBI listed as a pilot, had come to the airport one month earlier seeking to rent a small plane.

 

However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took the slender, soft-spoken Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.

 

In the spring of 2000, Hanjour had asked to enroll in the CRM Airline Training Center in Scottsdale, Ariz., for advanced training, said the center's attorney, Gerald Chilton Jr. Hanjour had attended the school for three months in late 1996 and again in December 1997 but never finished coursework for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft, Chilton said.

 

When Hanjour reapplied to the center last year, "We declined to provide training to him because we didn't think he was a good enough student when he was there in 1996 and 1997" Chilton said.

 

----

 

On December 12, 2000, [Nawaf al Hazmi and Hani Hanjour] were settling in Mesa, Arizona, and Hanjour was ready to brush up on his flight training [brush up? He could barely fly a Cessna]. By early 2001, he was using a Boeing 737 simulator. Because his performance struck his flight instructors as sub-standard, they discouraged Hanjour from continuing, but he persisted.

 

DIY Top Gun Pilot Training - Only $40!

 

The FBI has determined that some of the [9/11] terrorists bought life-size training posters of the inside of Boeing cockpits from a flying shop in Ohio. The posters - priced at $39.95 - show the exact locations of controls and detail the view the pilots would have from the Boeing 767s. Pilots use the posters for training. [Guardian]

 

Here is the cockpit that Hani somehow upgraded to... A FUCKING 757!!

 

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/757-cockpit.jpg

 

At a speed of about 500 miles an hour, the plane was headed straight for what is known as P-56, protected air space 56, which covers the White House and the Capitol.

 

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." [NATCA]

 

But just as the plane seemed to be on a suicide mission into the White House, the unidentified pilot [Hanjour] executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.

 

Less than an hour after two other jets demolished the World Trade Center in Manhattan, Flight 77 carved a hole in the nation's defense headquarters, a hole five stories high and 200 feet wide.

Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm, possibly one of the hijackers. Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious. [Washington Post]

[Hamza123]

Continue...

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible – there is not one chance in a thousand," said [ex-commercial pilot Russ] Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727’s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737’s through 767’s it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying. [LewisNews]

 

So for $40.00 you can learn how to fly a 757? SHIT IM THERE!!

 

FBI Withholding 84 More Tapes of Pentagon on 9/11

Magically Only 1 shows impact so why not release the rest?

 

Steve Watson / Infowars | May 17 2006

 

The FBI is withholding at least another 84 surveillance tapes that were seized in the immediate aftermath of the attack on the Pentagon.

 

There is an ongoing lawsuit to get these tapes released via the Freedom of Information Act. The FBI has admitted in a statement to attorney, Scott Hodes, representative of Mr Scott Bingham who runs the website http://www.flight77.info/, that they have these tapes, that they have already analyzed them and are still keeping them under lock and key.

 

A great deal of speculation has surrounded reports that on the morning of september 11th, 2001 the FBI visited two private businesses near the pentagon and confiscated several security camera video tapes.

 

The first is said to be the Cigto gas station with several security cameras aimed in the direction of the pentagon. Flight 77 flew directly over the gas station at an altitude of roughly 50 feet, less than 3 seconds from impact.

 

Three months after 9/11 The National Geographic and others reported on this, publishing short interviews with the gas station owner, Jose Velasquez.

 

 

 

"His gas station, open only to Department of Defense personnel, is the last structure between the Pentagon and the hillside that, hours later, would become a wailing knoll. "By the time I got outside all I could see was a giant cloud of smoke, first white then black, coming from the Pentagon," he said. "It was just a terrible, terrible thing to be so close to."

"Velasquez says the gas station's security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "I've never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film."

 

The second business was initially believed to be the Sheraton National Hotel which overlooks I395 and the Pentagon. Initial reports pointed out that hotel staff had sat watching the video surveillance in horror before the FBI arrived and shut down the scene.

 

However, according to FBI statements in response to the FOIA request from Mr Bingham, The hotel in question was not the Sheraton but was in fact the Doubletree in Arlington, VA. AND this video did not capture the impact of the flight. (Maguire, page 7)

 

According to the same document, the Citgo gas station video DOES NOT show flight 77 impacting the pentagon either. (Maguire, page 6, item 15)

 

If this is the case then why did the FBI confiscate the gas station and hotel security videos within minutes of the crash and why haven't they subsequently released these videos?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch Alex Jones' Martial Law free online to get the truth about 9/11 or buy the DVD here!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

According to a CNN FOIA request however, the nearby hotel's video DID capture the impact. The following exchange is from a CNN transcript of a report on the 2002 release of the original four frames of Pentagon footage:

 

MCINTYRE (on camera): These pictures are the first to be made public, but they are not the only images of the plane hitting the Pentagon. Sources tell CNN that the FBI on September 11th confiscated a nearby hotel's security camera videotape, which also captured the attack. So far, the Justice Department has refused to release that videotape. Aaron.

 

BROWN: Why? Do we have any idea why they won't release it?

 

MCINTYRE: Well, the claim - we have filed a freedom of information request for it. They claim that it might provide some intelligence to somebody else who might want to do harm to the United States. But officials I talked to here at the Pentagon say they don't see any national security or criminal value to that tape. The FBI tends to hold on to things. But the government may eventually release that tape, and if they do, we'll bring it to you.

 

BROWN: Jamie, thanks. I must have missed something in how, where the intelligence possibilities are there, but that happens with me sometimes. Thank you for your work today, nice job.

 

Whichever story you believe, whether the footage does or does not show the impact, the fact that the footage exists is not denied. So something does not tally up here. Both FOIA requests were denied yet we have one FOIA request denial saying the footage does not show the impact, yet a second FOIA request denial saying it does show the impact.

 

 

HERE IS THE DOCUMENT BIATCH!

 

http://www.infowars.net/pictures/may2006/170506FOIA.jpg

 

 

Honestly? The FBI have apparently seized a video of what really happened to the pentagon that day. Just show it to the public and silence all of us.

[builder]

Holy shit, Hammy. Calm the fuck down.

 

Repugs love nothing better than gettin you all worked up.

 

Chill, motherfucker.

[Hamza123]

Holy shit, Hammy. Calm the fuck down.

 

Repugs love nothing better than gettin you all worked up.

 

Chill, motherfucker.

 

Sall good. They want a debate they can have one...

 

They want to get under my skin. Well they've done a great job. As for making me angry? No. It just makes me do more research and realise how gullible some fuckers can be.

 

As for the whole 757 747 issue.

 

I wouldn't matter if it where either.

 

http://www.warbirdaviation.com.au/images/gall/other/RNZAF%20B-757%20C.jpg

 

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/images/plane_747_232_lg.jpg

[builder]

Sall good. They want a debate they can have one...

 

I like a good stoush myself. Glad I posted this thread while drunk as a lord. I'm just sick to fucking death of the endless propaganda spewing onto the world. No wonder dumb fuckers lap it up. It's fucking endless.

 

They want to get under my skin. Well they've done a great job. As for making me angry? No. It just makes me do more research and realise how gullible some fuckers can be.

 

Good for you. Researching is what these tryhard rightard apologists should have been doing from the start. Trouble is, there are no good alternatives to the shrubber. The hidden control mechanism, meaning the fucking Carlyle group of ex-fuckwit money men, won't let a reasonable man manage the country for them. Only fuckwit dunces allowed.

[Hamza123]

Good for you. Researching is what these tryhard rightard apologists should have been doing from the start. Trouble is, there are no good alternatives to the shrubber. The hidden control mechanism, meaning the fucking Carlyle group of ex-fuckwit money men, won't let a reasonable man manage the country for them. Only fuckwit dunces allowed.

 

HOLY FUCK I KNOW!!

 

They'd rather have a person elected that has a GMC Pickup than Rationality.

 

Check the shout box. I hope snafu understands how vunerable images are now.

[builder]

HOLY FUCK I KNOW!!

 

They'd rather have a person elected that has a GMC Pickup than Rationality.

 

Check the shout box. I hope snafu understands how vunerable images are now.

 

Snafu is a wizard with photoshop. I'm surprised he believes the work of other wizards.

[hugo]

Think I will have a beer. Glad I ain't a stupid plane crashing, no alcohol drinking Muslim.

[Hamza123]

Think I will have a beer. Glad I ain't a stupid plane crashing, no alcohol drinking Muslim.

 

You're an alcohol drinking, Bush-head-giving, motherfucker.

[snafu]

You're an alcohol drinking, Bush-head-giving, motherfucker.

Dose your mother know you talk like this?

What's her email anyway?

[hugo]

You're an alcohol drinking, Bush-head-giving, motherfucker.

 

Have a nice day.

[Jhony5]

Posted by Builder:

What pictures?

Exactly. There is no photographic evidence supporting your outrageous claims.

I'm positing an undeniable physical fact, and you are avoiding it like the plague.. Nothing unusual in that. You know I'm right, so you change tack, and try elsewhere.

First of all, I have already explained clearly why there aren't three distinct holes in the structure. These three holes you claim must be present if a 757 hit the building are:

1)The 13 foot diameter hole caused by the 13 foot diameter fuselage.

2)the impact spot for the left engine.

3) the impact spot for the right engine.

Ok, lets take it from there. If an airplane of this type (a 757) struck a reinforced concrete wall head on with its wings stable and level and the plane was flush with the structure, then yes there would definitely be at least a primary impact hole for each of the two wings. On this assumption your correct.

 

But there are a few factors which created a situation in which the plane was NOT flush and horizontal upon impact.

1)The right wing engine came into contact with a large generator, among other things, tilting the plane slightly to the left.

2)The left wing contacts the ground just prior to hitting the building.

 

Now the plane is tilted with one wing high in the air, and the other smashing into the ground. Remember, this is at approximately 450 MPH. Why are you demanding that there be three holes present then? The wings of a 757 come off rather easy under such duress.

 

posted by Hamza:

Honestly? The FBI have apparently seized a video of what really happened to the pentagon that day. Just show it to the public and silence all of us.

Whats so odd about that? If a child is kidnapped from a parking lot, the FBI will confiscate all video from any camera that may have recorded it the general direction of the crime. What does it matter anyway? If they released a video showing clearly in high definition, flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon, you tinhat wearing shut-in America bashing ingrates would just claim the video was doctored anyway. There is no silencing a nut job. Facts to the contrary are just a deeper part of the conspiracy, huh?

Because you're mainstream media is just a branch of your fucked up government.

 

It wants to portray Muslims as evil for their own agenda, and thats war. And when war is profitable, you will see war.

Ya see, I'm fine with Muslims till I hear them inevitably say some fucktard shit like this. WTF Hamza? How is the media "portraying Muslims as evil" by reporting on terrorist deeds? I saw a report about a child molester a week ago, and I didn't feel as if the media was trying to portray white people as pedophiles. I saw a report about a Canadian dude that shot up his college. I didn't get the feeling that the media was portraying Canadians as violent. Muslims are responsible for 9/11, not George Bush. If you don't like that its to bad. Sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "nanananananananana...i cant hear you ...nananananna" doesn't prove your point, bud.

I celebrate Ramadan and Eid.

Don't 'cha mean Ramadan and IED?

You don't tell me what I follow and how I follow it.

I'm not. Your telling all of us. Your pseudo-patriotic support of Muslims who kill innocent people, tells me everything I need know about you. When you start believing some ridiculous and 100% unfounded conspiracy theory, the size of which would be unimaginable, it goes far to show blind following. Thats what the word "blind" means. To not see. And that is what you have chosen to do here, not see the facts so you can continue to hold onto your fantasy.

you also like to frame Muslims for 9/11.

Something tells me thats gonna be real easy for me to do. Considering I have mountains and stacks and piles of photos, eyewitness reports, physics studies, engineering diagramming, disaster engineering summaries, live video, audio recordings, expert investigations, and common sense to prove my case. What you got on yours? ohhhhhhh...............You hate America. Well thats....uhhh...wow thats some evidence you got there pal. Intriguing to say the least.

You're so easy to unravel for Bush. You mine'as well just sell your soul to him and dig a few holes.

HERE IT IS AGAIN!!!

Would the two of you stop using that as your defense to everything? Stop making this direct tie between my opinion that Muslims did 9/11, and the suggestion that I'm a Bush supporter. I'M NOT A BUSH SUPPORTER! There can be another explanation for why I don't believe the conspiracy.

Are you sure? Bushslam is where its at. Bushtian is worse

...and here it is ....again.

 

So fucking typical of you fucking robots out there. It just blows your circuit breaker to think that its possible someone could believe Muslims were responsible for 9/11 because of their own opinion. Like all Americans are brainwashed zombies watching the evening news so they can learn what their opinion is supposed to be. This is becoming a recurring theme. I state why I believe what I do, and you and ButtBuilder there keep firing back that I believe this way because I've been transfixed by the Government controlled media.

 

Here, prove this wrong. It has to do with a taxi cab, the light poles outside the Pentagon, and the plane.

WTF? The taxi was in the grassy knoll? WTF was that all about? All I saw was a taxi with a broken windshield.

Holes appear bigger when zoomed.

 

Okay. Heres others than pussy.

LOL @ U .

 

Wow...its the same picture...only from 5 feet back. Thats still not "the big picture" idiot. If you want to view this disaster the same way you view the rest of the world, with tunnel vision, go right ahead. That hole there represents only a small part of the accident scene. The photos your not so fixated on are the other ones with engine debris and plane parts smoldering on the front lawn.

If Flight 77 had crash landed, and skidded into the Pentagon...

 

It would have looked like this.

 

http://www.loosechange911.com/img/ev...pentagon11.jpg

 

OMG...YOUR RIGHT!! I see it so clearly now, you've been right all along and that picture of a completely unrelated accident that has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion at all, has proved it to me. The plane at the pentagon didn't do a loopty loop before crashing either. This photo is bunk, because the plane at the Pentagon didn't skid along the ground for hundreds of feet, ya jackass. It crashed INTO the building as the evidence I provided you clearly showed.

Instead, it looked like this, without a single scratch on the lawn.

 

http://www.loosechange911.com/img/ev...pentagon13.jpg

What a surprise. A plane that never touched the grass, didn't touch the grass. Who woulda thunk'd it?

On November 22nd, 2004, a private jet en route to Houston to pick up George Bush Senior clipped a single light pole and crashed a minute away from landing at Houston's Hobby Airport.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newde...et-crash_v.inc

 

The wing ripped off upon impact, scattering debris over 100 yards.

 

And yet, Flight 77 managed to tear 5 light poles completely out of the ground, without damaging either the wings or light poles themselves. Instead, they seem to have just popped out of the ground.

Hang your head low boy. For shame posting this tripe. How dare you.

 

Again you have taken a completely UNRELATED matter, and tried to tie it to this occurrence and make a point. A "private jet" on approach for a landing and a 757 at full throttle have nothing in common physically, you god dam idiot.

 

This bunk you get from loosechange is as elementary as it gets. Heres more of the easily debunked garbble.

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."

This doesn't even suggest that the plane in question wasn't a 757, only that the controllers aren't used to monitoring a 757 flying in such a reckless fashion.

Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious.

LOL omg this is retarded.

I love how this tinhat tries to make it sound like a big secret on how to turn off a transponder. I can spend 3 minutes on the internet to figure that out. Its an incrediblely sophisticated and almost indescribably complicated piece of gear called "a switch". Yep thats right. Somehow the terrorist learned how to flip a switch. How did they ever get a hold of such top secret information as learning how to use switches? We may never know.

 

Hamza, your comments have gone from baseless and unfounded accusations, to quoting the most ridiculous comments I've ever heard. You should quit now before you look any stupider

[builder]

Righto, you brought up the Pentagon, Jhony5.

 

Now I'll bring up the demolition of WTC 7.

 

Why is it avoided like the black plague by NIST, and the media, and the gov?

 

It was clearly gutted by explosives. The admissions are there that it was dropped intentionally.

[Jhony5]

Posted by Builder:

Righto, you brought up the Pentagon, Jhony5.

Yepper. I started it, and I finished it. I'll do the same with the WTC crapola.

Why is it avoided like the black plague by NIST, and the media, and the gov?

 

Your asserting that its being "avoided". Its not being avoided. Its been addressed and theres nothing there. Lets lay it out then shall we? Logistically.

1) The powers that be (presumably the American Government) must secure the services of Muslim Al-Quida operatives.

 

2) The operatives must not only be trained to fly a passenger jetliner, but they must be trained to crash them into the designated building within only a few floors of the pre-installed demolition devices. To miss their mark would allow for an obvious explosion to far from the impact area, which would thus compromise the conspiracy. As well they cannot strike too close to the pre-installed devices as they might damage them thus not permitting them to work properly. This narrows the margin of error for the EXACT impact zone to only a few floors. A mighty task for a man whom has never once in his entire life flown an actual airplane, let alone a jetliner.

 

3) We must now establish motive. The motive I'm sure you will sight as being cause for such an event would be the start of the war on terror. The motivation for the war on terror? To secure Americas place in the ME in order to secure oil reserves for profit. Or just to start a war against Islam. You choose. I suggest that its not necessary for the WTC towers to actually fall down in order to have cause for the war on terror. 2 hijacked airplanes crashing into the WTC, 1 crashing into the Pentagon, and yet another one that was due to crash into an unspecified target, shows ample cause for military action against whatever faction was named responsible. In other words, to go through the great risk and implausible logistics of arranging for the towers to crumble to the ground, is highly unnecessary. Simple overkill and not worth the risk of the extra steps needed for this to be successful.

 

Now debate me straight on this bud. Answer each line of my post with a rebuttal. Then we go from there. If you need tissues to cry into, I suggest Puffs brand with aloe. They are remarkable absorbent and have a silky touch for your sensitive skin.

[builder]

 

Yepper. I started it, and I finished it. I'll do the same with the WTC crapola.

 

You finished nothing. You posted the words of another, and you were shown how easily and quickly images and movie clips can be altered to fit an agenda.

 

 

Your asserting that its being "avoided". Its not being avoided. Its been addressed and theres nothing there.

 

It's been avoided like the plague. Of all the demolitions, the causality, and the video evidence, are so plainly in contradiction to the excuses offered, that blind Freddy would not be convinced of the "official" line. Spot fires on two or three floors, and the call to "pull it" are widely known to be fact. No building in history has been brought down by spot fires on a few floors.

 

 

Lets lay it out then shall we? Logistically.

 

You mean in your logic? This should be a yawn.

 

1) The powers that be (presumably the American Government) must secure the services of Muslim Al-Quida operatives.

 

Why? It was Saudi nationals, not Al Quaeda that were framed for the hijackings.

 

2) The operatives must not only be trained to fly a passenger jetliner, but they must be trained to crash them into the designated building within only a few floors of the pre-installed demolition devices.

 

The pre-installed demolition devices would not be troubled by impact. They are electronically set off remotely. The possibility that the airliners were not hijacked, and the planes flown remotely, has been aired.

 

To miss their mark would allow for an obvious explosion to far from the impact area, which would thus compromise the conspiracy.

 

Dream on. There were explosions in the basements of those towers before they were hit.

 

As well they cannot strike too close to the pre-installed devices as they might damage them thus not permitting them to work properly.

 

Strawman argument. Red fucking herring. Get to the point.

 

This narrows the margin of error for the EXACT impact zone to only a few floors.

 

Why? Pre-installed charges will not explode unless detonated. Besides, there was a big enough explosion when the plane/s hit. What's another explosion withing a fireball gonna do? Sweet fuck all is what.

 

A mighty task for a man whom has never once in his entire life flown an actual airplane, let alone a jetliner.

 

If you follow the party line of created personas flying those craft.

 

3) We must now establish motive.

 

Yes, by following the money trail, we will find the perps. We have Silverstein agreeing to "pull" WTC 7 that has just been insured, guaranteeing him a seven billion dollar windfall on a recent lease agreement. We have the tenants of that building, the CIA, "losing" documents linking major politicians with Enron's collapse, amongst hundreds of other controversial cases. I could go on, but I'll save the best for later.

 

The motive I'm sure you will sight as being cause for such an event would be the start of the war on terror.

 

Well that plan was on the cards for at least a decade before the event.

 

The motivation for the war on terror?

 

There is no war on terror. That is an excuse to extend executive power, and override congress. Wake up, Jhony5.

 

To secure Americas place in the ME in order to secure oil reserves for profit.

 

America has secured its place in the ME. Saudi Arabia. The concern was that Iraq and Iran were making plans to deal oil in the Euro, rather than the petro-dollar, weakening the US economy.

 

Or just to start a war against Islam. You choose.

 

Pfffft. Vote-catching is what this religious posturing is.

 

I suggest that its not necessary for the WTC towers to actually fall down in order to have cause for the war on terror. 2 hijacked airplanes crashing into the WTC, 1 crashing into the Pentagon, and yet another one that was due to crash into an unspecified target, shows ample cause for military action against whatever faction was named responsible.

 

As crazy as many US people come across, I don't think for a minute that full-scale war is wanted by the masses. It takes emotive string-pulling and the skillful instillment of fear to convince the masses to agree to a war without end.

 

In other words, to go through the great risk and implausible logistics of arranging for the towers to crumble to the ground, is highly unnecessary.

 

To create a strike at the heart of what America represents, meaning international commerce, trade, and money, which is what the WTC is (was) was a coup de grace. The pentagon hit was just to convince the doubters that this was really serious shit. After all, the WTC was bombed once before, but the plebs really didn't give a flying fuck, because they don't profit off international trade.

 

Simple overkill and not worth the risk of the extra steps needed for this to be successful.

 

In your mind, maybe it was overkill.

 

Now debate me straight on this bud. Answer each line of my post with a rebuttal.

 

Sure. But quit wallowing in the last year. I've been following this saga from the start, and I've researched it back fifty plus years.

 

Then we go from there. If you need tissues to cry into, I suggest Puffs brand with aloe. They are remarkable absorbent and have a silky touch for your sensitive skin.

 

Blow me boy.

[builder]

As an aside, I found this post in the alt.politics forum, and found it highly indicative of what I'm trying to say about dumb-fuck flag-waving head in the sand fuckers.

 

Props to Starman;

 

Re: Are the Bush Neocons ushering in a feudalistic Dark Age?

Your strawman argument is a sop for like-minded wilted intellects like

yours; Are you aware, your core argument excuses the rightwing embrace

of fascist totalitarian ideals as defense of the single-party

corporate-kleptocracy against the social-justice and human-rights

demands of authentic self-rule democracy, by demonizing an entirely

bogus, contrived-parody of 'the alternative'?

 

So, I guess the question you MIGHT be qualified to answer (one of very,

very few, apparently, given evidence of your lowball-impaired grasp of

history, social movements and political plurality) is:

 

Are you a complicit stooge or an unwitting dupe?

 

The US has done far more to destroy budding representative democracies

than the former Soviet Union or China -- but your type of apologists

for Empire don't let facts get in the way of your ideological

convictions. The US lives high-on-the-fat of the world (food, gadgets,

energy supplies, cheap-labour, imported consumer and durable goods,

etc.) because US agencies, institutions and policies have blackmailed,

bribed, coerced or otherwise strongarmed the nations of the world into

accepting the US dollar as the world's reserve currency, while imposing

ruinous, impractical and unworkable extravagent IMF-World Bank

subsidized development schemes that resulted in enormous impoverishment

and imposition of privatization, military and political concessions --

with the net effect being the conditions of great wealth disparity and

significantly impaired locally-based economic development.

 

Your hostile knee-jerk reply to the observations posted would seem to

be due to your ignorance of the true role of US Foreign Policy in the

world as an opportunistic enabler for neocolonial Empire -- in direct

opposition to stated American principles and values.

 

Since you and your ilk so obviously despise the ideals of liberty,

equality, self-rule by an informed and engaged polity, human and civil

rights, egalitarianism, progressive reform, rule of law, and the

liberal tradition, why don't you just LEAVE, and go somewhere where

your brand of elite privelege, fascist dogma, rule by force and feudal

aristocracy are valued?

 

The rest of your rant-screed is too much nonsense to respond to --other

than pointing out the enormous lapse in your understanding that the

fascist (sic) theocracy of Iraq and Afghanistan were imposed by America

(the Ba'athe Party and Saddam Hussein), Made in America (AlQaeda) and

encouraged by America (Taleban, following the power-vacuum resulting

from America's manipulating, supporting and then abandoning Mujahadeen

with competing tribal loyalties, in the aftermath of the US-provoked

and inspired Soviet-Afghan war). In both situations, the US played a

major role in creating the conditions for enormous civil strife and

suffering, for very-narrow and selfish geostrategic interests. For

those who are ignorant of America's culpability for consequences

extending from repudiation of America's traditional values, SHAME ON

YOU!

 

I despise and loathe self-righteous, know-nothing blowhards whose grasp

of America's original principles is so deficient they aren't even aware

of their traitorous hypocrisy.

 

Starman

[Jhony5]

Hi ya Builder! How ya doing today? Me? Oh I'm super, thanks for asking.

 

 

Spot fires on two or three floors, and the call to "pull it" are widely known to be fact. No building in history has been brought down by spot fires on a few floors.

 

Spot fires? Come on Builder boy. Since when do you have down syndrome?

 

Over 20,0000 gallons of jet fuel will give ya a touch more then a "spot fire". Your choice of terminology is lacking severely. Be serious if your going to go head to head with me.

 

It was Saudi nationals, not Al Quaeda that were framed for the hijackings.

 

They were Al-Quida terrorist. Call them what you want. But thats what they represented. How can you say they were framed? When, among many many other things, they were video taped boarding the airplanes. Their voices were clearly heard over the communication lines after they had taken control of the aircraft. Your a terrorist sympathizer and you should be shot.

 

The pre-installed demolition devices would not be troubled by impact. They are electronically set off remotely

 

Your making this to easy for me bro.

 

You ever heard of wires? Electrical contacts? Ever heard of them? Huh? NO? Yes? No more technological then a car battery. Imagine a car battery hooked up to a transmitter. Now imagine an airplane full of thousands of gallons of fuel crashing into it. Do you think it would still function. You failed miserably to counter my very astute point.

 

Dream on. There were explosions in the basements of those towers before they were hit.

W H A T ??? Uhhhh.... you better post fucking something to support that outrageous claim. NOW!

 

Strawman argument. Red fucking herring.

Do you even know what these terms mean? You had better look it up in the debaters dictionary ya clueless tard fucker. That was a valid point I posed, and you tried to distract by dismissing it with buzzwords. How pathetic.

 

Thats not a red hearing. THIS IS>>>

If you follow the party line of created personas flying those craft.

Which was in response to this>>

Originally Posted by Jhony5:

A mighty task for a man whom has never once in his entire life flown an actual airplane, let alone a jetliner.

 

Nonsensical bullshit buddy, and you fuckin' know it.

 

Pre-installed charges will not explode unless detonated.

 

My point was not that the charges would explode if struck by the planes, and you goddam well know it. My point was the devices would obviously fail if they were exploded into fragments. Common sense is all it takes to blow your feeble attempts at retort out of the realm of possibility. This is to easy.

 

We have Silverstein agreeing to "pull" WTC 7 that has just been insured, guaranteeing him a seven billion dollar windfall on a recent lease agreement.

 

Name one fucking skyscraper that ISN'T insured by a beneficiary. This isn't motive. Its commonplace happenings being misconstrued into a flop of a conspiracy theory.

 

Well that plan was on the cards for at least a decade before the event.

 

This is true. Here in America we prefer proactive action to thwart future enemies from becoming to powerful. Its exactly this type of proactive awareness that has kept the world from witnessing the many world domineering factions from bringing constant war on a worldwide scale from occurring in the last 70 years. We all know that little piss-ant pussy Nations like Australia like to bitch about the very nations that keep them safe. Nothing new. The only terrorist that Aussies have had to deal with are the dreaded cane toads. Whatever shall you do?

 

There is no war on terror.

 

Ringgggg...Ringggggg...Hey Builder, It's for you. Taliban wants to know where the fuck they disappeared to. Any idea?

 

As crazy as many US people come across

 

Oh ya, we Americans are soooo crazy. Common knowledge that we are the only civilized nation with wackjobs in our midst. Jackass!

 

It takes emotive string-pulling and the skillful instillment of fear to convince the masses to agree to a war without end.

 

Indeed. Al-Quida did alot of string pulling and fear mongering in the years leading up to 9/11. It worked. Turns out Americans fight like hell.

 

The pentagon hit was just to convince the doubters that this was really serious shit.

 

And what about flight 93? The remote controlled plane malfunctioned I suppose?

 

You posted the words of another

 

Ohhh...you mean like you and Hamza have repeatedly done throughout this thread? Including the above post that has little to nothing to do with this debate.

 

 

My point still stands in conflict with your theory that the towers fell from implosion. Logistically its highly implausible. Where is your evidence that there was any explosion when the buildings gave way to the immense mass contained above the large holes and raging ultra-hot fires in the structures?

 

Implosion detonations make a big ol boom when they go off. No boom was audible when the collapse came to be.

 

 

Explain that.

[builder]

Hi ya Builder! How ya doing today? Me? Oh I'm super, thanks for asking.

 

It's the pot. You got the munchies too?

 

 

Spot fires? Come on Builder boy. Since when do you have down syndrome?

 

Over 20,0000 gallons of jet fuel will give ya a touch more then a "spot fire". Your choice of terminology is lacking severely. Be serious if your going to go head to head with me.

 

You must be stoned. I'm talking about WTC 7. Hit by nothing. Go back to refutation 101 and try again, Hombre.

 

They were Al-Quida terrorist. Call them what you want. But thats what they represented. How can you say they were framed? When, among many many other things, they were video taped boarding the airplanes.

 

Nine of them were "caught" on video playing the tables on gambling boats in Florida after they crashed those jets. Do some research, Jhony5.

 

Their voices were clearly heard over the communication lines after they had taken control of the aircraft. Your a terrorist sympathizer and you should be shot.

 

Link us to these imaginary recordings. You are gov shill, and should be casterated to avoid a repeat of your errors.

 

Your making this to easy for me bro.

 

You mean embarrassing yourself? It comes natural to some people.

 

You ever heard of wires? Electrical contacts? Ever heard of them? Huh? NO? Yes? No more technological then a car battery. Imagine a car battery hooked up to a transmitter.

 

How are most bombs detonated these days, Jhony? Mobile phones. Try to keep up. Series detonations are actually triggered by one signal, and subsequent charges are detonated by slave signals, to keep the successive implosion timed accurately. No wires, Coyote. You're thinking is thirty years behind the times.

 

Now imagine an airplane full of thousands of gallons of fuel crashing into it. Do you think it would still function.

 

Yes. Wireless technology is with us as we speak. You've heard of WI-FI? Or bluetooth? How's about hotspots?

 

You failed miserably to counter my very astute point.

 

You made no points. I guess if you'd just toked a coupla spliffs it sounded pretty cool to you. Maybe.

 

 

W H A T ??? Uhhhh.... you better post fucking something to support that outrageous claim. NOW!

 

Fuck you. You dribble on this shit, and demand I do something for you? When you start making sense, I will respond to your requests.

 

Do you even know what these terms mean? You had better look it up in the debaters dictionary ya clueless tard fucker. That was a valid point I posed, and you tried to distract by dismissing it with buzzwords. How pathetic.

 

You've been doing this from the start. You don't debate. You shill. Grow a brain, and ease up on the pot for a change. It took you near on an hour to post this dribble.

 

Thats not a red hearing. THIS IS>>>

 

You have nothing but red herrings, or dribble you pasted from others. Get original, or get the fuck out of here.

 

 

Nonsensical bullshit buddy, and you fuckin' know it.

 

Ad hominen retort. No basis in reality, Jhony. Either debate facts, or fuck off.

 

My point was not that the charges would explode if struck by the planes, and you goddam well know it. My point was the devices would obviously fail if they were exploded into fragments. Common sense is all it takes to blow your feeble attempts at retort out of the realm of possibility. This is to easy.

 

The buildings were how tall? The charges were systematically exploded from the lower levels upwards. Video evidence of charges exploding in the basements is there for all to see, as are the systematic charges from the ground upwards. You claim that the planes destroyed the whole building in one fucking hit. Now we all know how stoned you really are.

 

Name one fucking skyscraper that ISN'T insured by a beneficiary. This isn't motive. Its commonplace happenings being misconstrued into a flop of a conspiracy theory.

 

The guy asked for the building to be "pulled", when firefighters claimed they could easily control the spot fires. Tell me why he wanted it "pulled" when it could be easily saved?

 

This is true. Here in America we prefer proactive action to thwart future enemies from becoming to powerful. Its exactly this type of proactive awareness that has kept the world from witnessing the many world domineering factions from bringing constant war on a worldwide scale from occurring in the last 70 years.

 

You're fucking kidding.

 

We all know that little piss-ant pussy Nations like Australia like to bitch about the very nations that keep them safe. Nothing new. The only terrorist that Aussies have had to deal with are the dreaded cane toads. Whatever shall you do?

 

Another red herring. Stick to the debate.

 

Ringgggg...Ringggggg...Hey Builder, It's for you. Taliban wants to know where the fuck they disappeared to. Any idea?

 

The Taliban is currently yeilding the largest crop of opium in history. Refute that.

 

Oh ya, we Americans are soooo crazy. Common knowledge that we are the only civilized nation with wackjobs in our midst. Jackass!

 

Highest suicide rate and murder rate in the "civilized" west. I won't mention the obesity factor, or the fact that you guys have a monopoly on school kids taking a gun to school and killing off thier comrades.

 

Indeed. Al-Quida did alot of string pulling and fear mongering in the years leading up to 9/11. It worked. Turns out Americans fight like hell.

 

Al Quaeda was trained by the CIA to fight the Russians is Afghanistan. It would help if you knew your own country's history, Jhony5.

 

And what about flight 93? The remote controlled plane malfunctioned I suppose?

 

I posited a hypothesis about WTC1 and 2. I mentioned nothing about that flight. It's the mark of a poor debater to put words in the mouths of opponents.

 

Ohhh...you mean like you and Hamza have repeatedly done throughout this thread? Including the above post that has little to nothing to do with this debate.

 

Hamza fights on his pat malone. Your point was?

 

 

My point still stands in conflict with your theory that the towers fell from implosion. Logistically its highly implausible. Where is your evidence that there was any explosion when the buildings gave way to the immense mass contained above the large holes and raging ultra-hot fires in the structures?

 

Building tend to fall down. Explosions tend to go upwards. I don't need to point you to any video evidence of WTC 1 and 2 "falling" upwards, nor the reporters on the ground hearing the explosions that started the implosion of those buildings. Keep your head in the sand, mister. Have another cone.

 

Implosion detonations make a big ol boom when they go off. No boom was audible when the collapse came to be.

 

 

Explain that.

 

That's kinda funny, if not for the thousands of innocents killed that day.

 

Plenty of explosions were heard, and are even detectable on the richter scale.

 

I sincerely hope you get better at this. So far, it's like five years have not passed, and no new information is available to you.