Head in the sand fuckers.

[builder]

Suck on this one, Jhony5.

 

 

Sept. 3, 2006

[builder]

Originally Posted by Jhony5

This is true. Here in America we prefer proactive action to thwart future enemies from becoming to powerful. Its exactly this type of proactive awareness that has kept the world from witnessing the many world domineering factions from bringing constant war on a worldwide scale from occurring in the last 70 years.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, Jhony5.

 

On the morning of August 19, 1953, a crowd of demonstrators operating at the direction of pro-Shah organizers with ties to the CIA made its way from the bazaars of southern Tehran to the center of the city. Joined by military and police forces equipped with tanks, they sacked offices and newspapers aligned with Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddeq and his advisers, as well as the communist Tudeh Party and others opposed to the monarch. By early afternoon, clashes with Mosaddeq supporters were taking place, the fiercest occurring in front of the prime minister's home. Reportedly 200 people were killed in that battle before Mosaddeq escaped over his own roof, only to surrender the following day. At 5:25 p.m., retired General Fazlollah Zahedi, arriving at the radio station on a tank, declared to the nation that with the Shah's blessing he was now the legal prime minister and that his forces were largely in control of the city.

 

Article here.

With the death of former CIA director Richard Helms, the corporate media is offering a rare glimpse into the CIA's use of political assassinations. Unfortunately, however, the coverage is highly-sanitized. It covers up much more than it reveals.

 

Contrary to what the corporate media suggests, assassination is not a clean, surgical method of removing very specific political enemies. It is only one small element in a larger cluster of crimes used by the CIA in executing a regime change.

 

The reality is that the CIA's use of assassination to exterminate political leaders has historically been closely linked to many other political crimes that are, arguably, even worse.

 

For example, when planning, coordinating, arming, training and financing repressive military coups, as the CIA has done so many times, their henchmen are wont to carry out mass arrests, mass torture and mass murder. It's a nasty business. As Kissinger once said about the CIA's betrayal of Iraqi Kurds, covert action should not be confused with missionary work.

 

Article here.

 

I won't even start on the South American shit. Not applicable, but no less atrocious.

 

So get off your fucking high horse about your nation stopping terrorism.

 

It started it.

[Jhony5]

With all due respect. You didn't seem to comprehend what I was trying to convey.

 

Other then these ambiguous isolated incidents and sporadic localized warfare. The world has enjoyed a long period of relative stability in respect to the first 50 years of the 20th century. The Stalins, Hitlers, and other evil leaders who seeked world domination have been quelled due to the leadership of nations that don't wait for these evil nations to garnish too much power. America has always been at the forefront of these conflicts. You can't argue that.

 

Blaming America for terrorism is akin to blaming the nerdy student for the bullies thirst for his lunch money.

[Jhony5]

I'm talking about WTC 7. Hit by nothing.

 

Other then two falling skyscrapers. Ya. Care to elaborate?

 

You have nothing but red herrings, or dribble you pasted from others. Get original, or get the fuck out of here.

 

Pasted from others? Explain this immediately!!!

 

I speak my own words buddy boy.

 

Link us to these imaginary recordings.

 

Do I also have to link you to a site that explains water is wet? Jesus Christ don't tell me you haven't heard the recordings of the hijackers communicating with the flight controllers? Wherein they said "We have a bomb on board, remain calm and everything will be alright". Then the transponders went off. Its not my fault your completely ignorant of the happenings that day. Research it yourself pal. Its not my job to educate you.

 

How are most bombs detonated these days, Jhony? Mobile phones. Try to keep up. Series detonations are actually triggered by one signal, and subsequent charges are detonated by slave signals, to keep the successive implosion timed accurately.

 

Your attempting to muddy the waters. Electrical equipment as well as even the finest digital equipment of this type will not function if run into by a god dam fucking burning airplane. What is it you don't get about this? I want everyone to key in one the operative word in Builders above statement. "ACCURATELY". Accuracy is key in implosions. Which cannot be obtained from devices that have been destroyed due to catastrophic events, such as a plane crashing into them. Again, if the planes were purposely crashed into the WTC, with the knowledge that they would then be dropped by an implosion device, the planes would have to strike a very narrow area. An area so narrow it defies logic.

 

Yes. Wireless technology is with us as we speak. You've heard of WI-FI? Or bluetooth? How's about hotspots?

 

Let me hillbilly this one. Shit don't work right if shit done got ruin't. Did I dumb it down enough for ya? Take the most sophisticated equipment in the known world, crash a god dam plane into it, and just see if it works!!!

 

You've been doing this from the start. You don't debate. You shill. Grow a brain, and ease up on the pot for a change. It took you near on an hour to post this dribble.

 

I stopped to take a shit buddy. Since when am I being timed on my response? This isn't Jeopardy. "I'll take Builders losing his ass on this and doesn't have a shred of tangible proof for a thousand Alex".

 

You have nothing but red herrings

Apparently in Australia, red hearing means questions you can't answer.

 

Why are you jumping back from everything I pose to you. All you got to say is "strawman....red hearing...I want my mommy. Either address the shit or shut it up.

 

The buildings were how tall? The charges were systematically exploded from the lower levels upwards. Video evidence of charges exploding in the basements is there for all to see, as are the systematic charges from the ground upwards. You claim that the planes destroyed the whole building in one fucking hit. Now we all know how stoned you really are.

 

What evidence? Silence me through proof. The truth is, there is absolutely no evidence of any implosion type collapse. This is total fabrication. The buildings DID NOT fall from a compromise at the lower level. Its clear as fucking day. The collapse began at the apex of the impact area from the plane in both towers. Show me the video. You don't have it do you? I do. And it supports my view, not yours.

 

...and BTW, thats three references so far to my marijuana hobby. Are you trying to use this to support your debate? Pathetic. Stick to the issues and get off the distractions. Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

 

The guy asked for the building to be "pulled", when firefighters claimed they could easily control the spot fires. Tell me why he wanted it "pulled" when it could be easily saved?

 

Ok. First off, what fucking "guy"? The firefighters weren't even trying to fight the fire. They were in the building to save lives. Fighting that fire was a waste of time, and they knew this. How can you, with a straight face, even try to refer to this as "spot fires". Jesus god man. Have you lost it?

 

The Taliban is currently yielding the largest crop of opium in history. Refute that.

 

The Taliban has had their infrastructure completely disassembled. They have been reduced to a drug ring. No longer the aspiring army that wished to destroy the US. They are powerless trolls forced to hide in their huts.

 

Highest suicide rate and murder rate in the "civilized" west. I won't mention the obesity factor, or the fact that you guys have a monopoly on school kids taking a gun to school and killing off their comrades.

 

And you accuse me of getting off topic. Shall we debate abortion rights while we're at it? Stick to the issues, and avoid the pointless slander.

 

Al Quaeda was trained by the CIA to fight the Russians is Afghanistan. It would help if you knew your own country's history

 

Your point being.........? Tell me sumptin I don't know.

 

I'm not gonna defend the crooked allegiances that my Nation has made over the years. It still doesn't go to say that Al-Quaeda didn't plot to destroy America. Its kinda obvious that it wasn't a sudden decision for them to launch a holy war against us. My point stands. They plotted this shit for years, which is what I stated.

 

I posited a hypothesis about WTC1 and 2. I mentioned nothing about that flight. It's the mark of a poor debater to put words in the mouths of opponents.

 

And I countered every outrageous claim you've made thus far. Which reduces you to getting smartassed on a constant. You don't want to hear my shit, then do not draw my ire.

 

Hamza fights on his pat malone. Your point was?

 

Fair enough since he ducked out of this. I'll refrain from his mention.

 

Building tend to fall down. Explosions tend to go upwards. I don't need to point you to any video evidence of WTC 1 and 2 "falling" upwards, nor the reporters on the ground hearing the explosions that started the implosion of those buildings.

 

Countless tons of cement, steel and whatever else was contained within, would make a mighty crunchy sound MR. The buildings did not fall upwards. They tilted slightly to the side which first gave, then down they came. You can continue to inject this fantasy that the WTC towers blew up in the air with a mighty blast. Doesn't change whats on friggin video. Real time recordings, unaltered and unabated for the whole world to see. Yet a handful of America hating shrubs viewed it through stained glass. Stained with a nasty predisposition towards American Government.

 

Plenty of explosions were heard, and are even detectable on the richter scale.

Ok. So heres where we're at. I'm claiming that there was no exploding sounds at the inception of the collapse. By that I mean to say. Seconds before the buildings fell, there wasn't a sound. Not a peep. After the building began to collapse, there was indeed many booms and blasts.

 

How could this be? Unless....unless there were detonators causing these sounds.

 

What all was contained within the structures.

1) People. Yep. Lots and lots of people. Hmmmm, but they don't go boom when they get crushed. Lets move on, shall we?

 

2)Paper and clerical office supplies. Again, not so much gonna boom when crushed.

 

3)Computers...Naaaa. Thats gonna be more like a faint crunchy noise when placed under such duress.

 

4)Mops. Ya there were lots of mops. But they don't make noise at all really. Can't be the mops.

 

5)Wait a minute....hold on... I'm a pot smoker so its gonna take me a minute but I think I know what might have made a boom noise here and there. Ohhhh what was it?

 

 

OHHHHHHHH ya. The buildings had lights. Lights require power. To provide power there must be present, for a building of this size and magnitude, power boxes, generator and a litany of electrical power supply equipment. Many areas of the WTC had power at the time of the collapse. I surmise that many explosions would be EXPECTED in the collapse of a structure with such power needs, while continuing to feed electricity into said power supply stations.

 

You continue to spit on the graves of the nearly 3,000 people who died an unimaginable horrible death. Just what would these poor souls think of you turning their deaths into a side show attraction? Claiming that the hundreds of passengers whom perished aboard the planes, simply were disappeared and that they didn't undergo the terror imposed upon them by Muslims in their final moments.

 

Call it a red hearing. Call it a strawman tactic. I call it being real about shit and distancing myself from the sorry fucks that refuse to see the truth because it feeds their need for controversy.

[builder]

Other then two falling skyscrapers. Ya. Care to elaborate?

 

At least fifty metres separated building seven from the other demolition excercises. It wasn't directly hit. The cause of the fires is still under a cloud of conjecture.

 

Pasted from others? Explain this immediately!!!

 

Fuck you. You avoid anything you want to, and expect me to cowtow? Double fuck you. Make you airtight.

 

I speak my own words buddy boy.

 

One would sincerely hope so.

 

Do I also have to link you to a site that explains water is wet? Jesus Christ don't tell me you haven't heard the recordings of the hijackers communicating with the flight controllers?

 

Nope. If they're not on the web, then I've not heard them. Got some links?

 

Wherein they said "We have a bomb on board, remain calm and everything will be alright". Then the transponders went off.

 

Run it by us again. Where is it? You mean in that movie?

 

Its not my fault your completely ignorant of the happenings that day. Research it yourself pal. Its not my job to educate you.

 

I research thoroughly. I save the best for last.

 

I'm hoping your induction will benefit your career.

 

Your attempting to muddy the waters. Electrical equipment as well as even the finest digital equipment of this type will not function if run into by a god dam fucking burning airplane.

 

Says you, Einstein. The visual on those impacts shows not even a shudder in a building designed with such care and attention to durability. Not a fucking shudder. They'd still be there as a monument to western design brilliance if some arsehole didn't say "pull them".

 

What is it you don't get about this? I want everyone to key in one the operative word in Builders above statement. "ACCURATELY".

 

Blow me Jhony5. What are you on? I want some to give to my gardner.

 

Accuracy is key in implosions. Which cannot be obtained from devices that have been destroyed due to catastrophic events, such as a plane crashing into them.

 

The plane/s crashed into less than five floors on a skyscraper. What about the other hundred plus floors? A

 

 

Again, if the planes were purposely crashed into the WTC, with the knowledge that they would then be dropped by an implosion device, the planes would have to strike a very narrow area.

An area so narrow it defies logic.

 

This is a fixation for you alone, Mister. Why the narrow exlusion zone?

 

Let me hillbilly this one.

 

No stretch at all, really.

 

Shit don't work right if shit done got ruin't.

 

I'm trying to envisage this. Any more clues?

 

Did I dumb it down enough for ya?

 

Apparently not.

 

Take the most sophisticated equipment in the known world, crash a god dam plane into it, and just see if it works!!!

 

Crash a plane into five of over one hundred floors, and why wouldn't the othe floors be functional. Lots of people fled the scene in tme. It wasn't as if a plane crashing into a few floors fucked things over in the rest of the building.

 

I stopped to take a shit buddy.

 

For one hour? Try castor oil.

 

Since when am I being timed on my response?

 

Since you took this personal. It isn't. You shouted, and I responded. Big deal.

 

 

This isn't Jeopardy.

 

Marcus Welby.

 

"I'll take Builders losing his ass on this and doesn't have a shred of tangible proof for a thousand Alex".

 

 

You lose again.

 

Apparently in Australia, red hearing means questions you can't answer.[,QUOTE]

 

Why are you jumping back from everything I pose to you. All you got to say is "strawman....red hearing...I want my mommy. Either address the shit or shut it up.

 

Some quotes would be handy right about now. I rarely use the strawman/red herring tool. Most debaters stick to the topic.

 

What evidence? Silence me through proof.

 

Indulge me with the evidence.

 

The truth is, there is absolutely no evidence of any implosion type collapse.

 

There is, and you know it, Jhony5. You'd prefer not to know, but it's a patriotic duty to ignore the shit that doesn't personally involve you. Isn't it?

 

 

This is total fabrication. The buildings DID NOT fall from a compromise at the lower level

 

So tell me why the videos clearly show the centre of the buildings falling in, b4 the 'severely damaged' outer walls fell? ?The radio tower on building two fell into the guts of the building just as the top fifty floors exploded into the air.

 

Its clear as fucking day. The collapse began at the apex of the impact area from the plane in both towers.

 

Not so, Hombre. BTW, I'm saving video "evidence" until you show your hand.

 

Show me the video. You don't have it do you? I do. And it supports my view, not yours.

 

Get it out there, chickenshit.

 

...and BTW, thats three references so far to my marijuana hobby. Are you trying to use this to support your debate? Pathetic. Stick to the issues and get off the distractions. Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

 

I won't dwell on your habit, if you don't dwell on my prediliction for Australia. Agreed ?

[builder]

Continued....

 

Ok. First off, what fucking "guy"? The firefighters weren't even trying to fight the fire. They were in the building to save lives. Fighting that fire was a waste of time, and they knew this. How can you, with a straight face, even try to refer to this as "spot fires". Jesus god man. Have you lost it?

 

I've researched this. The second tower to be hit was the first tower to drop. The official line is that fires reaching furnace heat softened the structure, resulting in a pancake collapse. We are talking 1500 degrees, when there are people visible in the window holes of the damaged sections. Some were jumping out, granted, but heat that hot would have seen all of then jumping out to their deaths without question. The heat haze from that kinda furnace would have been visible for miles. All we saw was black smoke.

 

 

 

The Taliban has had their infrastructure completely disassembled. They have been reduced to a drug ring. No longer the aspiring army that wished to destroy the US. They are powerless trolls forced to hide in their huts.

 

Dealing in the most addictive drug on the planet, to the tune of ninety-plus percent of the global supply. I'd rather run that shit than work for a living.

 

 

 

And you accuse me of getting off topic. Shall we debate abortion rights while we're at it? Stick to the issues, and avoid the pointless slander.

 

I will if you will, Hombre. Stick to the shit at hand, or fuck off.

 

Your point being.........? Tell me sumptin I don't know.

 

If only you would listen, rather than load up.

 

 

I'm not gonna defend the crooked allegiances that my Nation has made over the years. It still doesn't go to say that Al-Quaeda didn't plot to destroy America. Its kinda obvious that it wasn't a sudden decision for them to launch a holy war against us. My point stands. They plotted this shit for years, which is what I stated.

 

Calm down, Mister. This is an interknob discussion. If you wanna fist fight, go to the local gym. Or saunter down hip-hop lane, with that attitude.

 

 

 

 

 

And I countered every outrageous claim you've made thus far. Which reduces you to getting smartassed on a constant. You don't want to hear my shit, then do not draw my ire.

 

You're running scared. You know I've got this one in the bag, and now you resort to personal carping. Grow some cajones, Jhony5.

 

Fair enough since he ducked out of this. I'll refrain from his mention.

 

More shirking. Good work, if you can get away with it.

 

 

 

Countless tons of cement, steel and whatever else was contained within, would make a mighty crunchy sound MR.

 

No doubt. Pity there are scenes of explosions down low before the shit hit the fan up above. You talk about these structures like they were townhouses, Jhony5.

 

They were near-on the tallest fucking structures on the face of the earth.

 

 

The buildings did not fall upwards.

 

So they imploded? Is that why plumes of concrete and steel were hurtled almost a hundred metres into the sky?

 

They tilted slightly to the side which first gave, then down they came. You can continue to inject this fantasy that the WTC towers blew up in the air with a mighty blast.

 

A mighty air blast? That's good. Can I use that? Not fucking likely an air blast is gonna land an unmarked passport from some strango Saudi who's been tracked for years, and failed a test for pilot status.

 

Doesn't change whats on friggin video. Real time recordings, unaltered and unabated for the whole world to see.

 

What did you see?

 

Yet a handful of America hating shrubs viewed it through stained glass. Stained with a nasty predisposition towards American Government.

 

Now I know you're a shill. How much does it pay?

 

Ok. So heres where we're at. I'm claiming that there was no exploding sounds at the inception of the collapse. By that I mean to say. Seconds before the buildings fell, there wasn't a sound. Not a peep. After the building began to collapse, there was indeed many booms and blasts.

 

Mostly before, but many during. Your point is?

 

How could this be? Unless....unless there were detonators causing these sounds.

 

Or you had your head up your own ass again.

 

What all was contained within the structures.

People. Yep. Lots and lots of people. Hmmmm, but they don't go boom when they get crushed. Lets move on, shall we?

 

Emotive crapola works on Sundays only.

 

 

 

 

It helps if you separate the pages manually to burn them.

 

3)Computers...Naaaa. Thats gonna be more like a faint crunchy noise when placed under such duress.

 

Who knows? I like to push the envelope.

 

4)Mops. Ya there were lots of mops. But they don't make noise at all really. Can't be the mops.

 

Agreed. Mops suck. Hopefully.

 

5)Wait a minute....hold on... I'm a pot smoker so its gonna take me a minute but I think I know what might have made a boom noise here and there. Ohhhh what was it?

 

The presidential election. Rooseveldt got in. I'm stoked.

[Jhony5]

Nope. If they're not on the web, then I've not heard them

 

Well thats a narrow view of the world. No wonder you subscribe to oddball conspiracy theories.

 

Run it by us again. Where is it? You mean in that movie

 

I will get right on that. I don't watch Hollywood bullshit. My television viewing is limited to documentaries, news, or sports. The 9/11 hijackers communicated directly with the flight controllers, but only briefly. It was a means of buying time. Then they switched off the transponders and discontinued communications. I will make an effort to retrieve proof of this from the web.

 

I research thoroughly. I save the best for last.

 

I never bring a knife to a gun fight.

 

They'd still be there as a monument to western design brilliance if some arsehole didn't say "pull them".

 

I'm not following you on this one. I'm left to only guess that what your referring to is the command to pull the firefighters from the building. But thats only a guess as I am in the dark about your vague references to this "pull them" remark.

 

Blow me Jhony5.

 

Neither the time nor the place for oral copulation. But if your ever in Indy, drop by and I'll suck your dick raw.

 

Originally Posted by Jhony5:

An area so narrow it defies logic.

This is a fixation for you alone, Mister. Why the narrow exclusion zone?

 

I insist that if the planes were flown into the building on purpose with the knowledge that they would subsequently be dropped from explosives, that they MUST strike ABOVE the pre-installed devices but not to far from them, nor to close. To far from the devices would create a revealing event which would make it obvious that something afoul had occurred. To close would jeopardize the devises (functionally). Doing so would disallow them to effectively drop the buildings. Had the buildings not fallen, with explosive devices still present, then a subsequent investigation would discover them.

 

This is a compromising position for such a genius and multi-faceted conspiracy to involve. I'd liken it to a genius scheme to rob a bank, with all the possible precautions and afore-sight to pull it off without a hitch. Then choosing a Yugo as your get away vehicle.

 

Lots of people fled the scene in tme. It wasn't as if a plane crashing into a few floors fucked things over in the rest of the building.

 

We are talking 1500 degrees, when there are people visible in the window holes of the damaged sections. Some were jumping out, granted, but heat that hot would have seen all of then jumping out to their deaths without question.

I think you might have contradicted yourself. You stated that "lots of people fled the scene". Then you stated that people were jumping from the windows to their deaths. The hard undeniable fact is ALL of the people above the impact zone died. Either by way of the trauma from the initial impact. Smoke inhalation. Fire. Or suicide. This shows that the damage to the building at the spot of impact was cataclysmic. Which lends weight towards the possibility of structural failure.

 

As you said "Heat that hot would have seen all of them jumping to their deaths". I strongly disagree. "heat that hot" would have incinerated many people before they had the choice of suicide. Heres more>>>

All we saw was black smoke.

Smoke inhalation alone would prevent many many people from the opportunity to jump. As well, the absolutely terrifying and survival instinct defying act of plunging ones self from 80 some odd stories above the earth, would indicate that there was indeed a furnace of ungodly heat very near them. Agreed?

 

You'd prefer not to know, but it's a patriotic duty to ignore the shit that doesn't personally involve you.

 

I do not base my opinion on emotionally charged patriotism. I hated my government for Waco. I hated my Government for Ruby Ridge. And I would personally kill Mr. Bush if I thought for any reason he was the true instigator of 9/11.

 

Again, and I cannot say this any more clearly, I do not base my opinion on the happenings of 9/11 on a patriotic base.

 

I won't dwell on your habit, if you don't dwell on my prediliction for Australia. Agreed ?

 

Agreed.

 

To be quite honest, I find Australia to be one of the most beautiful places on the face of earth and if I had to pick another country to live in, I'd go down under. If I were a millionaire I'd buy a second home there. A truly wondrous and diverse landscape. I want to visit before I die.

 

I will be back for more on this discussion, and next time I'm upping the ante.

[builder]

Well thats a narrow view of the world. No wonder you subscribe to oddball conspiracy theories.

 

Rather lame comeback, Mister. No tinfoil hats? Cheapo bastards.

 

I will get right on that. I don't watch Hollywood bullshit. My television viewing is limited to documentaries, news, or sports.

 

Good for you. Too much tv can make you a junkie.

 

The 9/11 hijackers communicated directly with the flight controllers, but only briefly. It was a means of buying time. Then they switched off the transponders and discontinued communications. I will make an effort to retrieve proof of this from the web.

 

You'd better, Hombre. If you got it, it might just change everything. I hope you really do have it.

 

I never bring a knife to a gun fight.

 

I never bring a pistol to a turkey shoot.

 

I'm not following you on this one. I'm left to only guess that what your referring to is the command to pull the firefighters from the building. But thats only a guess as I am in the dark about your vague references to this "pull them" remark.

 

The only vague thing about this issue, is the fact that the supporters of the party line want to forever forget about WTC 7. The term "pull it", does not equate to "pull them". Get over it.

 

 

 

Neither the time nor the place for oral copulation. But if your ever in Indy, drop by and I'll suck your dick raw.

 

I insist that if the planes were flown into the building on purpose with the knowledge that they would subsequently be dropped from explosives, that they MUST strike ABOVE the pre-installed devices but not to far from them, nor to close. To far from the devices would create a revealing event which would make it obvious that something afoul had occurred.

 

Not likely. We are talking about remote receivers, with slave senders. If one got knocked, or ten, it's not big deal.

 

To close would jeopardize the devises (functionally). Doing so would disallow them to effectively drop the buildings. Had the buildings not fallen, with explosive devices still present, then a subsequent investigation would discover them.

 

 

The subsequent investigation has discovered them. That is why we are discussing this now. If the official investigation had any legitimate credibility, nobody would bother with it, don't you think?

 

This is a compromising position for such a genius and multi-faceted conspiracy to involve. I'd liken it to a genius scheme to rob a bank, with all the possible precautions and afore-sight to pull it off without a hitch. Then choosing a Yugo as your get away vehicle.

 

You would. You love the spotlight enough to get caught. The point is,,,,what was your point?

 

 

I think you might have contradicted yourself. You stated that "lots of people fled the scene". Then you stated that people were jumping from the windows to their deaths

 

Those that could leave, left the building. You claimed that the impact of the place crashing actually disabled the whole structure, when we all know that nothing could be further from the truth.

 

 

The hard undeniable fact is ALL of the people above the impact zone died.

 

The hard undeniable fact is, the fire exits to the roof were locked from the outside. Nobody was meant to get away from the upper floors.

 

Either by way of the trauma from the initial impact.

 

The explosion was massive, but quite short-lived.

 

Smoke inhalation. Fire. Or suicide. This shows that the damage to the building at the spot of impact was cataclysmic.

 

A momentary blast, then people realising they could not get out, so they bombed out. Bloody dismal show.

 

Which lends weight towards the possibility of structural failure.

 

Not for an instant. Bloody pathetic slotting that in after a sympathy trip and all.

 

As you said "Heat that hot would have seen all of them jumping to their deaths". I strongly disagree. "heat that hot" would have incinerated many people before they had the choice of suicide.

 

Maybe. But how can a furnace of 1200 plus degrees be burning within twenty feet of people standing in open windows? Not possible. No way, no fucking how.

 

Heres more>>> Smoke inhalation alone would prevent many many people from the opportunity to jump.

 

You can jump any time you like. Smoke does not happen within a furnace burning at 1200 degrees.. All those jumpers should have been on fire from the radiant heat.

 

As well, the absolutely terrifying and survival instinct defying act of plunging ones self from 80 some odd stories above the earth, would indicate that there was indeed a furnace of ungodly heat very near them. Agreed?

 

No. See above. Radiant heat from a blaze hot enough to do what the boffins claimed would be melting the skin off those jumpers. They just realised there was no way out.

 

 

 

I do not base my opinion on emotionally charged patriotism. I hated my government for Waco. I hated my Government for Ruby Ridge. And I would personally kill Mr. Bush if I thought for any reason he was the true instigator of 9/11.

 

Careful, Matey. Guantanamo is still taking new arrivals.

 

Again, and I cannot say this any more clearly, I do not base my opinion on the happenings of 9/11 on a patriotic base.

 

What do you base them on?

 

Agreed.

 

To be quite honest, I find Australia to be one of the most beautiful places on the face of earth and if I had to pick another country to live in, I'd go down under. If I were a millionaire I'd buy a second home there. A truly wondrous and diverse landscape. I want to visit before I die.

 

Just slip your best shit into a backpack, and come on over.

 

You're not attached to inanimate shit, are you?

 

I will be back for more on this discussion, and next time I'm upping the ante.

 

I went back five years to start this shit. Bring it, brother. I's a ready for yuz.

[Lethalfind]

What I find continually hilarious Builder is that you seem to think ANYONE gives anything you say any credibility.

If you knew HALF what you spout on here, you might be worth knowing.

[builder]

What I find continually hilarious Builder is that you seem to think ANYONE gives anything you say any credibility.

If you knew HALF what you spout on here, you might be worth knowing.

 

The only laughable thing we need to address is, why the fuck you would put your neck on the block by entering another debate without anything to add to that debate.

 

 

Go crawl back in your hole, rusty wench.

[builder]

We've moved on from that fiasco, Nazz.

 

We're on the demolition now.

[builder]

You mean I read all that shit for nothing??

.

.

 

 

Hopefully not.

[Jhony5]

Posted by Builder:

You'd better, Hombre. If you got it, it might just change everything. I hope you really do have it.

 

Well I have failed so far in locating the actually audio recordings. BUT, I have links to the transcripts of exactly what I'm referring to. I just listened to these recordings on TV 2 weeks ago and for whatever reason (maybe a Government cover-up:D ) I can't get my hands on them. Nevertheless, both of these links document the various hodge podge of communication between the hijackers and the controllers.

 

http://cgi.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/17/911.transcript

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0412061hijack1.html

 

I never bring a pistol to a turkey shoot.

 

I never bring a pistol to a rocket fight. Ha one-up'd ya on that huh?

 

The term "pull it", does not equate to "pull them". Get over it.

We are becoming mired in the semantics of a yet unfounded quote. I can't lend any weight to this verbage as it has yet to materialize.

The subsequent investigation has discovered them. That is why we are discussing this now. If the official investigation had any legitimate credibility, nobody would bother with it, don't you think?

 

No proof of any remnants of any demolition devices has been discovered. If I'm wrong please to enlighten me.

The hard undeniable fact is, the fire exits to the roof were locked from the outside. Nobody was meant to get away from the upper floors.

First of all, how do we know this? Second, there were in fact people on the roof, as documented on video.

 

The explosion was massive, but quite short-lived.

 

So the near 20,000 gallons of jet grade fuel just evaporated? ....or....burnt off in a matter of a few short minutes? Not bloody likely my Friend.

 

Maybe. But how can a furnace of 1200 plus degrees be burning within twenty feet of people standing in open windows? Not possible. No way, no fucking how.

I think your assumption of a distance of 20 feet is guesswork at best. Whatever the actual temperature was at the heart of the inferno, and the temperature at the far edge of the building actually was, is hard to pin down. However, the fact that people chose freely to plummet to their deaths in such a ghastly manner supports the fact that the heat even at the outermost edge of the structure, was utterly unbearable.

 

You can jump any time you like. Smoke does not happen within a furnace burning at 1200 degrees.. All those jumpers should have been on fire from the radiant heat.

Radiant heat from a blaze hot enough to do what the boffins claimed would be melting the skin off those jumpers.

I think the evidence (people jumping by the dozens) indicates that the heat was at near flashpoint. The grueling torture of the heat was likely the motive for such drastic action as leaping to ones death.

 

They just realized there was no way out.

C'mon buddy. People don't give in that easy. Maybe one or two stragglers would succumb to panic and hop out an 80 story window, but what was documented was countless dozens of people jumping. Many of the folks whom observed from the streets below, described the macob surreal scene of "raining bodies". This is irrefutable proof to measure the heat from the inferno contained within the structure. It was either burn to death slowly, or kiss your ass goodbye and take your chances with gravity.

 

Careful, Matey. Guantanamo is still taking new arrivals.

I hear the American interrogators have state of the art nipple clamps.

 

Just slip your best shit into a backpack, and come on over.

No need. I hear the Australian weed is primo supreme.

You're not attached to inanimate shit, are you?

Just this damn mortgage. 26 more years and I'm in the clear.

 

Posted by Builder in response to Lethal:

The only laughable thing we need to address is, why the fuck you would put your neck on the block by entering another debate without anything to add to that debate.

 

 

Go crawl back in your hole, rusty wench.

 

I second this. Either contribute something intelligent towards either side, or stick to the intellectual goatse thread.

[builder]

Well I have failed so far in locating the actually audio recordings. BUT, I have links to the transcripts of exactly what I'm referring to.

 

 

So post these links for us, Jhony.

 

 

I just listened to these recordings on TV 2 weeks ago and for whatever reason (maybe a Government cover-up:D ) I can't get my hands on them. Nevertheless, both of these links document the various hodge podge of communication between the hijackers and the controllers.

 

 

http://cgi.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/17/911.transcript

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0412061hijack1.html

 

Nothing conclusive there.

 

I never bring a pistol to a rocket fight. Ha one-up'd ya on that huh?

 

Never bring a sword to a shit fight. Gotcha back there.

 

We are becoming mired in the semantics of a yet unfounded quote. I can't lend any weight to this verbage as it has yet to materialize.

 

None needed.

 

No proof of any remnants of any demolition devices has been discovered. If I'm wrong please to enlighten me.

 

Plenty of video evidence there for the discerning soul.

 

First of all, how do we know this? Second, there were in fact people on the roof, as documented on video.

 

 

What video? There were no people on the roof.

 

So the near 20,000 gallons of jet grade fuel just evaporated? ....or....burnt off in a matter of a few short minutes? Not bloody likely my Friend.

 

Black smoke indicates a fuel-inefficient low-temperature blaze. Not a fucking furnace. Get with the picture.

 

I think your assumption of a distance of 20 feet is guesswork at best.

 

Agreed. Would it make much difference if the 1200 degree open furnace was another ten feet away>?

 

Whatever the actual temperature was at the heart of the inferno, and the temperature at the far edge of the building actually was, is hard to pin down.

 

 

No, it is not. The required heat to sear all the vertical steel collumns of the structure at the same time is 1500 degrees. It never got that hot.

 

However, the fact that people chose freely to plummet to their deaths in such a ghastly manner supports the fact that the heat even at the outermost edge of the structure, was utterly unbearable.

 

 

The choking fumes would have been the major issue.

 

I think the evidence (people jumping by the dozens) indicates that the heat was at near flashpoint.

 

What flashpoint? It's a building. It exploded upwards. I guess that all that paper and all those pens and shit got volatile, and just blew up.

 

The grueling torture of the heat was likely the motive for such drastic action as leaping to ones death.

 

You got it in one.

 

C'mon buddy. People don't give in that easy.

 

Says who?

 

 

Maybe one or two stragglers would succumb to panic and hop out an 80 story window, but what was documented was countless dozens of people jumping

 

It was horrific, to say the least. I did not see one person jumping with burning clothes on.

 

.

Many of the folks whom observed from the streets below, described the macob surreal scene of "raining bodies". This is irrefutable proof to measure the heat from the inferno contained within the structure.

 

 

Still nobody scorched or on fire.

 

It was either burn to death slowly, or kiss your ass goodbye and take your chances with gravity.

 

I didn't see anybody scorched or burning. No furnaces there.

 

I hear the American interrogators have state of the art nipple clamps.

 

That should titillate you.

 

No need. I hear the Australian weed is primo supreme.

 

See if you can cope.

 

Just this damn mortgage. 26 more years and I'm in the clear.

 

Posted by Builder in response to Lethal:

 

I second this. Either contribute something intelligent towards either side, or stick to the intellectual goatse thread.

 

Fuck the mortgage. Sounds like a life's sentence. So does lethal.

[builder]

More grist for the mill.

[builder]

This one was very interesting, and well worth a perusal.

[Jhony5]

The video you provided was inept at best. Complete with dramatic sound effects and shit stirring fodder.

 

Some of the things that stand out as glazed bullshit.

 

One reference to the plane hitting the building being equivocal to a "pencil poking through a screen". "How could the building collapse if the screen doesn't"? Laughable! Screens don't support weight so.....this comparison falls terribly short.

 

Another key reference that sheds light on this faced of a film. They make mention of a fire that occurred in the WTC in '76. This is prior to the asbestos removal. Why did they not mention this in the film? Because it defies the agenda of the filmmakers.

 

Add to that the continuous remarks they purposely take out of context, as well as the ACTORS they had being supposedly interviewed on the streets of NYC. So fake. So poorly produced. So bad for your rep Builder to use this fucking dribble as your only crutch. You tried to bang on me for getting my info from Hollywood and a bias media, yet you rely on dramatic films that do not even warrant viewing in a realm of serious debate.

 

And that article sounds more like a spy novel then a serious review of factual information. A poorly patched together 'who dunit'. I spit at your attempts.

[builder]

The video you provided was inept at best. Complete with dramatic sound effects and shit stirring fodder.

 

Sounds like Fox Noos. Or a prezidunce speech, when he gets the right one handed to him, that is.

 

Some of the things that stand out as glazed bullshit....

 

...are like the prezidunce claiming that the war on terror is working, when everyone knows it isn't.

 

One reference to the plane hitting the building being equivocal to a "pencil poking through a screen". "How could the building collapse if the screen doesn't"? Laughable! Screens don't support weight so.....this comparison falls terribly short.

 

The analogy referrs to the structure's intended defence system against such an attack as a jetliner puncturing the "fabric" of the building. The engineers did very well, in my opinion. Those buildings visibly did not even shake when impacted by the jets. Not a shudder. They'd still be standing if not for the continued demolition.

 

Another key reference that sheds light on this faced of a film. They make mention of a fire that occurred in the WTC in '76. This is prior to the asbestos removal.

 

If you have a link pertaining to the removal of the asbestos protective coating on the inner cores of the structures, please post it. It will be a first.

 

And BTW, the shrubber claimed that the asbestos-laden air from the demolition/explosion was safe to breathe. Pity the thousands of rescue workers now gasping for their last breaths after breathing all that shit in.

 

Why did they not mention this in the film? Because it defies the agenda of the filmmakers.

 

Why did bush say it was safe to enter the asbestos laden demolition zone?

 

Add to that the continuous remarks they purposely take out of context, as well as the ACTORS they had being supposedly interviewed on the streets of NYC. So fake. So poorly produced.

 

That's funny, because the whole denial/cover-up procedure is so full of holes, when it becomes common knowledge, the shrubber will be played by Jim Carey.

 

So bad for your rep Builder to use this fucking dribble as your only crutch.

 

You bad-repped me for participating in a debate that you welcomed, Jhony5. You're losing, so you bad rep me. Crybaby.

 

I have much ammunition left up my sleeve. Post something debatable. Get it happening. So far, you have nothing.

 

You tried to bang on me for getting my info from Hollywood and a bias media, yet you rely on dramatic films that do not even warrant viewing in a realm of serious debate.

 

I didn't watch the movie. At 400 MB, I'm surprised anyone would. It's called "grist for the mill". Got it?

 

And that article sounds more like a spy novel then a serious review of factual information.

 

You mean it resembles subterfuge? At least they took the time to present something factual, which the shrubber team didn't bother attempting.

 

A poorly patched together 'who dunit'.

 

NIST report is any better? Come on, dude. Get debating.

 

I spit at your attempts.

 

No, you resorted to bad-repping me. BooHoo, Jhony5.

 

You can't debate for shit, my friend.

[builder]

This is old, but pertinent to the debate.

[builder]

This post in the alt forums backs up my claim of asbestos still being in those towers, Jhony5.

 

Mesothelioma is caused by asbestos. The cancers and leukemia cases are clear indicators of radiation sickness from exposure to low-level radiation, quite possibly from the mini-nukes used in the basements.

[Jhony5]

No no no no. You didn't comprehend.

An exceprt from an article on this matter:

Until 30 years ago, asbestos was added to flame-retardant sprays used to insulate steel building materials, particularly floor supports. The insulation was intended to delay the steel from melting in the case of fire by up to four hours.

 

In the case of the World Trade Center, emergency plans called for this four-hour window to be used to evacuate the building while helicopters sprayed to put out the fire and evacuated persons from the roof.

 

The use of asbestos ceased in the 1970s following reports of asbestos workers becoming ill from high exposures to asbestos fibers. The Mt. Sinai School of Medicine’s Irving Selikoff had reported that asbestos workers had higher rates of lung cancer and other diseases. Selikoff then played a key role in the campaign to halt the use of asbestos in construction.

 

In 1971, New York City banned the use of asbestos in spray fireproofing. At that time, asbestos insulating material had only been sprayed up to the 64th floor of the World Trade Center towers.

 

Flat out, the steel support beams were indeed exposed to to mush heat, thus leading to complete structural failure.

 

MORE:

One skeptic was the late-Herbert Levine who invented spray fireproofing with wet asbestos in the late-1940s. Levine’s invention involved a combination of asbestos with mineral wool and made commonplace the construction of large steel framed buildings.

 

Previously, buildings such as the Empire State Building had to have their steel framework insulated with concrete, a much more expensive insulator that was more difficult to use.

 

Levine’s company, Asbestospray, was familiar with the World Trade Center construction, but failed to get the contract for spraying insulation in the World Trade Center. Levine frequently would say that "if a fire breaks out above the 64th floor, that building will fall down."

 

 

What say you?

[builder]

No no no no. You didn't comprehend.

 

I comprehend very succinctly, Mister.

 

An exceprt from an article on this matter:

 

A snippet easily answered. After that, the collumns were cast into concrete.

 

In 1971, New York City banned the use of asbestos in spray fireproofing. At that time, asbestos insulating material had only been sprayed up to the 64th floor of the World Trade Center towers.

 

So the clean-up crew, and everybody in the vicinity at that time, and for a long time afterwards, has contracted enough asbestos to die from it, despite assurances from the govt boffins that no danger existed.

 

Now, check out the pic, and explain the plume of an explosion rising independantly of the "collapse", up on the upper left.

 

http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc_collapse2.jpg

[builder]

Well come on Jhony, or any other apologist fucking pretender.

 

Refute some of this lame-arse crapola that passes for patriotic bullshit propaganda in your country's "news" these days.

 

Everyone knows it's crapola. Why don't you all step up to the plate and belt it for a home run?

 

http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc_collapse2.jpg

[Jhony5]

Solid proof of an implosion. What else can I say?

[builder]

Solid proof of an implosion. What else can I say?

 

Nothing obvious, like the truth. It might damn your argument to hell, after all.