Guest Dan Wood Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:mibjh2lgt490d4pjotjd09me3au65b81rc@4ax.com... > On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:15:01 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > >"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message > >news:82tih2do5sc5kksbqkancb03crg61bc920@4ax.com... > >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:38:06 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message > >> >news:n3qih2hqorn0babp7ccjm4spvmrbqnbd0f@4ax.com... > >> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:35:08 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > >> >> >news:JEBRg.36581$KR1.26538@bignews2.bellsouth.net... > >> >> >> A very simple god question. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he > >is > >> >the > >> >> >> real god and all the others are fakes? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > >> >> >> > >> >> >Why is it important to you to spread the sad, depressing > >> >> >news of atheism IOW why do you feel the need to be an > >> >> >evangelist of atheism? This seems to be your _mission_ , > >> >> >why? > >> >> > >> >> Why is it important to you to lie about atheists, to our faces? > >> > >> Well? > >> > >> >> What "sad, depressing news", deliberately nasty liar? > >> >> > >> >Atheism my friend. It has no positive value. > >> > >> It doesn't claim to, moron. Unlike your fantasies which claim to but > >> don't either. > >> > >> How is that "sad, depressing news", deliberately nasty liar? > >> > >> And how is not believing in Santa Claus "sad, depressing news"? > >> BEcause t here is no difference between that and not believing the > >> deity of somebody else's religion. > >> > >> Finally, you are no friend of mine. My friends don't lie about > >> atheists (ie me) to my face. > >> > >I am the best friend you have! Anyway, > > Liar. > > >You stated above, "it (atheism) doesn't claim to", therefore > >it is not a lie. > > It was a straw man used as a lie. > > >I haven't lied. Liers are accountable to their God. You also > >will be accountable. > > You're certifiably insane. > That's no way to talk to a friend, Pal. Keep it up and you will have zero friends. > > >Dan > >> > >> >> >Dan Wood > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> > > > Quote
Guest Dan Wood Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1159310435.625370.59820@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Dan Wood wrote: > > "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message > > news:82tih2do5sc5kksbqkancb03crg61bc920@4ax.com... > > > On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:38:06 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message > > > >news:n3qih2hqorn0babp7ccjm4spvmrbqnbd0f@4ax.com... > > > >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:35:08 -0400, "Dan Wood" <danwood34@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> >"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > > >> >news:JEBRg.36581$KR1.26538@bignews2.bellsouth.net... > > > >> >> A very simple god question. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he > > is > > > >the > > > >> >> real god and all the others are fakes? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > > > >> >> > > > >> >Why is it important to you to spread the sad, depressing > > > >> >news of atheism IOW why do you feel the need to be an > > > >> >evangelist of atheism? This seems to be your _mission_ , > > > >> >why? > > > >> > > > >> Why is it important to you to lie about atheists, to our faces? > > > > > > Well? > > > > > > >> What "sad, depressing news", deliberately nasty liar? > > > >> > > > >Atheism my friend. It has no positive value. > > > > > > It doesn't claim to, moron. Unlike your fantasies which claim to but > > > don't either. > > > > > > How is that "sad, depressing news", deliberately nasty liar? > > > > > > And how is not believing in Santa Claus "sad, depressing news"? > > > BEcause t here is no difference between that and not believing the > > > deity of somebody else's religion. > > > > > > Finally, you are no friend of mine. My friends don't lie about > > > atheists (ie me) to my face. > > > > > I am the best friend you have! Anyway, > > You stated above, "it (atheism) doesn't claim to", therefore > > it is not a lie. > > I haven't lied. Liers are accountable to their God. You also > > will be accountable. > > > > Dan > > Does your god know you're running around loose? If I were him, I'd > think twice before using you as my spokesman. > And this is a concern of your: how? You know nothing! Dan Wood, DDS > Quote
Guest Abu Hamza Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 Bill M wrote: > "Abu Hamza" <ali711@sunnipath.com> wrote in message > news:1159249224.967733.15090@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > > > > Bill M wrote: > >> A very simple god question. > > > >> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. > > > >> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the > >> real god and all the others are fakes? > > > >> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > > > > The Islamic answer is very simple. God created Man and gave him some > > autonomy and faculties to reason, reflect, acquire knowledge unlike His > > other creation (Angels, Heavens, Earth, Animals, Plants etc ). With > > this came responsibility, so God tested Man to see whether he submits > > to Him willfully or rebels or denies His existence and/or authority. He > > also sent Messengers and revealed books to make the straight path clear > > for any one who wishes to follow it. Had God told directly from heaven > > that He is the ultimate reality/Truth (Al-Haq) or destroy all other > > fake gods than the point of testing would be useless and everybody > > would believe. > > Simply put, if the correct answers are provided before an examination > > everybody will pass the exam, intelligent, hardworking or lazy/dumb. > > It sounds like your god enjoys playing cruel games with his creations! Cruel games ? You mean all the schools, colleges, universities, the teachers, text books play cruel games with young people ? Quote
Guest bob young Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 Abu Hamza wrote: > Bill M wrote: > > "Abu Hamza" <ali711@sunnipath.com> wrote in message > > news:1159249224.967733.15090@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > Bill M wrote: > > >> A very simple god question. > > > > > >> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. > > > > > >> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the > > >> real god and all the others are fakes? > > > > > >> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > > > > > > The Islamic answer is very simple. God created Man and gave him some > > > autonomy and faculties to reason, reflect, acquire knowledge unlike His > > > other creation (Angels, Heavens, Earth, Animals, Plants etc ). With > > > this came responsibility, so God tested Man to see whether he submits > > > to Him willfully or rebels or denies His existence and/or authority. He > > > also sent Messengers and revealed books to make the straight path clear > > > for any one who wishes to follow it. Had God told directly from heaven > > > that He is the ultimate reality/Truth (Al-Haq) or destroy all other > > > fake gods than the point of testing would be useless and everybody > > > would believe. > > > Simply put, if the correct answers are provided before an examination > > > everybody will pass the exam, intelligent, hardworking or lazy/dumb. How simply moronic. It is indeed strange how otherwise intelligent human beings can fall for mythology provided it is pushed down their throats hard enough by parents and peers. Let me tell you something, Had you been unfortunate enough as a two year old to have been orphaned and had you then been adopted by a Hindu family; your god would now have the body of a woman and the head of an elephant. Grow up > > > > > It sounds like your god enjoys playing cruel games with his creations! > > Cruel games ? > > You mean all the schools, colleges, universities, the teachers, text > books play cruel games with young people ? Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 On 27 Sep 2006 05:19:02 -0500, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote: > > >Abu Hamza wrote: > >> Bill M wrote: >> > "Abu Hamza" <ali711@sunnipath.com> wrote in message >> > news:1159249224.967733.15090@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... >> > > >> > > Bill M wrote: >> > >> A very simple god question. >> > > >> > >> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. >> > > >> > >> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the >> > >> real god and all the others are fakes? >> > > >> > >> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? >> > > >> > > The Islamic answer is very simple. God created Man and gave him some >> > > autonomy and faculties to reason, reflect, acquire knowledge unlike His >> > > other creation (Angels, Heavens, Earth, Animals, Plants etc ). With >> > > this came responsibility, so God tested Man to see whether he submits >> > > to Him willfully or rebels or denies His existence and/or authority. He >> > > also sent Messengers and revealed books to make the straight path clear >> > > for any one who wishes to follow it. Had God told directly from heaven >> > > that He is the ultimate reality/Truth (Al-Haq) or destroy all other >> > > fake gods than the point of testing would be useless and everybody >> > > would believe. >> > > Simply put, if the correct answers are provided before an examination >> > > everybody will pass the exam, intelligent, hardworking or lazy/dumb. > >How simply moronic. It is indeed strange how otherwise intelligent human beings >can fall for mythology provided it is pushed down their throats hard enough by >parents and peers. Even more so that they expect everybody else to fall for it, and treat those who don't as sub-normal. >Let me tell you something, Had you been unfortunate enough as a two year old to >have been orphaned and had you then been adopted by a Hindu family; your god >would now have the body of a woman and the head of an elephant. > >Grow up > >> >> > >> > It sounds like your god enjoys playing cruel games with his creations! >> >> Cruel games ? >> >> You mean all the schools, colleges, universities, the teachers, text >> books play cruel games with young people ? Quote
Guest stefanbanev@yahoo.com Posted September 28, 2006 Posted September 28, 2006 Bill M wrote: > A very simple god question. > > > > There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. > > > > Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the > real god and all the others are fakes? > > > > Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? Why you think God should care about people's interpretation of him? Probably because you assume that God is our creator so, Father should care about its child. Why you think that this assumption is correct? The notions such as "good"/"bad" are purely a product of natural selection among tribes/ethnics/societies. You can not apply notion such as "Good Christian" to mitochondrial DNA. However "you" can apply "your" notions to "your" God which is ultimately a product of "your" imagination. Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >there would then be no need for faith Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. Quote
Guest gatekeeper Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 Christopher A. Lee wrote: > On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: > > >there would then be no need for faith > > Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the > complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a > virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their > belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. I would like to invite you to the party next week, seems you need to get a new Life! The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may come in! Gatekeeper Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 On 29 Sep 2006 02:01:30 -0700, "gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote: > >Christopher A. Lee wrote: >> On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >there would then be no need for faith >> >> Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >> complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >> virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >> belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. > >I would like to invite you to the party next week, seems you need to >get a new Life! > >The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may >come in! > >Gatekeeper Idiot. Quote
Guest Shiloh's Man Posted October 1, 2006 Posted October 1, 2006 In article <1159140632.074280.255990@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, chiron613@gmail.com wrote: > Good question, Bill. Just wondering, though - how would we be able to > know if it was really God who told us, directly from heaven? > > You already have plenty of people who claim to have a direct line to > heaven. Of course, no two of these folks actually say the same thing, > so probably most of them are wrong - maybe all of them. > > How can you tell that ANYONE is reporting correctly about God, or > even about the news? You really can't, unless you were an eyewitness > and know the truth for yourself. And if you were an eyewitness, you > have no need of someone else telling you what happened. > > Probably the best thing to do is to get your answer directly from God. > > If you don't think you can do that, then you need to look at fruit of > the message - what do the people with a particular message do with it, > what happens with them? Do they behave lovingly, kindly, patiently, > honestly, peacefully? Or are they arrogant, mean-spirited, dishonest, > violent? > > The fake gods are what we choose to worship. Money is a good thing, > for example, when it is a tool we use. As a god, it is a terrible > thing. Some people worship money and sacrifice their health, > marriages, children, friends, etc. for it. To these people, money is a > false god. But money itself is not evil (nor the root of all evil; > that quote is properly, "For the LOVE of money is the root of all > evil"). > > The false gods are within us; we choose to worship things that are not > God, but that doesn't make those things unholy. It only makes our > relationship with them unholy. > > > Bill M wrote: > > A very simple god question. > > > > > > > > There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. > > > > > > > > Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the > > real god and all the others are fakes? > > > > > > > > Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? Well said... friend... well said. -- for email delete underscores "I sought the fount of fire in hollow reed Hid privily, a measureless resource For man, and mighty teacher of all arts." - Prometheus Bound by Aeschylus - Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 1, 2006 Posted October 1, 2006 gatekeeper wrote: > Christopher A. Lee wrote: > >>On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >>>there would then be no need for faith >> >>Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >>complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >>virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >>belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. > > > I would like to invite you to the party next week, seems you need to > get a new Life! > > The Eastgate is open, the King is in residence! Whomsoever will, may > come in! ===>Only if one needs a latrine, to which your "Eastgate" opens. -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 1, 2006 Posted October 1, 2006 V A P O L L U A N wrote: > Bill M wrote: > >>A very simple god question. >> >> >> >>There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. >> >> >> >>Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the >>real god and all the others are fakes? >> >> >> >>Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > > > Good question.I thinK James Randi ought to challenge anyone to prove > their gods are real.I doubt anyone (else) can! > ===>There has been only one person who was able to do that, and he did it by identifying "God" with NATURE, i.e. the COSMOS, ALL THAT EXISTS, not some super-natural extra-cosmic anthropoid deity that only exists in the heads of believers. Even Albert Einstein accepted the fact that THAT particular "God" was "real", and said he believed in "Spinoza's God". -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 1, 2006 Posted October 1, 2006 Sphere wrote: > Bill M wrote: > >>A very simple god question. >> >> >> >>There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. >> >> >> >>Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the >>real god and all the others are fakes? >> >> >> >>Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > > > The real One God of Christianity and the real One > God of Islam are busy smiting each other right > now. ===>The same Near-Eastern story repeated. See the story of King Mesha of Moab. -- L. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 "Abu Hamza" <ali711@sunnipath.com> wrote in message news:1159249224.967733.15090@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > Bill M wrote: >> >> A very simple god question. >> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. >> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the >> real god and all the others are fakes? >> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > > The Islamic answer is very simple. God created Man ><snip> > Yet Muslims apparently do not regards Allah as their Father which is in heaven, nor do they regard themselves His beloved sons and/or daughters. They say: Allah has no progeny, like i.e Christ, whom we regard as God's only begotten son. Allah has only slaves to do His bidding in fear and trepidation. Quote
Guest Father Haskell Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Abu Hamza wrote: > Bill M wrote: > > "Abu Hamza" <ali711@sunnipath.com> wrote in message > > news:1159249224.967733.15090@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > Bill M wrote: > > >> A very simple god question. > > > > > >> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. > > > > > >> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the > > >> real god and all the others are fakes? > > > > > >> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? > > > > > > The Islamic answer is very simple. God created Man and gave him some > > > autonomy and faculties to reason, reflect, acquire knowledge unlike His > > > other creation (Angels, Heavens, Earth, Animals, Plants etc ). With > > > this came responsibility, so God tested Man to see whether he submits > > > to Him willfully or rebels or denies His existence and/or authority. He > > > also sent Messengers and revealed books to make the straight path clear > > > for any one who wishes to follow it. Had God told directly from heaven > > > that He is the ultimate reality/Truth (Al-Haq) or destroy all other > > > fake gods than the point of testing would be useless and everybody > > > would believe. > > > Simply put, if the correct answers are provided before an examination > > > everybody will pass the exam, intelligent, hardworking or lazy/dumb. > > > > It sounds like your god enjoys playing cruel games with his creations! > > Cruel games ? > > You mean all the schools, colleges, universities, the teachers, text > books play cruel games with young people ? Oh, dear. You really DO want to move us all back to the 12th century. Quote
Guest Les Hellawell Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:37:33 -0400, "Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.org> wrote: >"V A P O L L U A N" <nerrat73@netscape.net> wrote in message >news:1159129254.723990.173440@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> Bill M wrote: >>> >>> A very simple god question. >>> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. >>> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is the >>> real god and all the others are fakes? >>> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? >> > Why? And deprive you of your free choice to believe or disbelieve >without feeling coerced? The point you missed is our problem deciding how we choose when there is no way to distinquish one claimed god from another (other than by examining the claim to see if it is coherent and 'hangs together as sensible.) >So Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and >love doesn't coerce. Yer. yer we know all about your human emotions are gods concept. That's just about the easiest claimed god to elimininate from the vasty field of candidates. As people who do not believe there is a god we constantly test that view by looking for evidence. And what better souce of evidence could there be but from the very people people who claim these divers gods? We do not have to look very far as you lot cannot keep away from our popular and lively newsgroup. Yes here you are again crossposting like mad and promoting your claim yet again. You just could not resist could you? Yet all of you lot fail to bring it. Time after time visit after visit and not one jot of evidence either direct or indiect. You surely aught to know by now what it is we seek? In other words it is you - yes you - who are the ones who convince us we are right to be careful what we choose to believe and right to withold that belief from the Christian one. We will not be convinced by your hatred either. Naturally the first hurdle the promoters have to climb in order to convince is the test of coherence. Does the claim make sense does it 'hang together'? Your claim failed that first test long ago: An all loving god that murders the innocent first born of Egypt in order to get its way when it could have choosen a much more peaceful and loving solution? Love? That is not love that is hate. " For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds, Lilies that fester, smell far worse than weeds." - Shakespeare Sonnet No. 94 If you want to learn about love Shakespeare is a far better source of it than the hate filled Bible. Even if the Christian claim did make sense the story is of a vicious, nasty vindictive and venegeful god created in the image of the people that invented it and not one that is love. Where you get this notion it is love is beyond me. A god that sends people to a terrible hell for all eternity is a picture of a heartless and cruel being. Even the heaven does not look attractive either as its inmates seem to spend all their time at its feet in fawning worship. Yuk! Real death looks a far more inviting prospect than either of these and this is what I devoutly hope for. Will the real god please stand up as its adherent are failing it and badly. -- Les Hellawell Greetings from: YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 "Les Hellawell" <myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> wrote in message news:12h6j2punm90srlpodbjacr7gk26i4pdnf@4ax.com... > On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:37:33 -0400, "Pastor Frank" > <PastorFrank@christfirst.org> wrote: >"V A P O L L U A N" <nerrat73@netscape.net> wrote in message >>news:1159129254.723990.173440@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >>> Bill M wrote: >>>> >>>> A very simple god question. >>>> There are thousands of gods and god beliefs. >>>> Why does not the real god tell us directly from his heaven that he is >>>> the >>>> real god and all the others are fakes? >>>> Why does he not smite and destroy the fake gods? >> >> Why? And deprive you of your free choice to believe or disbelieve >>without feeling coerced? > > The point you missed is our problem deciding how we choose when > there is no way to distinquish one claimed god from another (other > than by examining the claim to see if it is coherent and 'hangs > together as sensible.) > >>So Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and >>love doesn't coerce. > > Yer. yer we know all about your human emotions are gods concept. > Why would you assume love is just a "human emotion" sans action for evidence? Did you omit loving and caring action because atheist doctrine demands it? > > That's just about the easiest claimed god to elimininate from the > vasty field of candidates. > As people who do not believe there is a god we constantly test > that view by looking for evidence. And what better souce of > evidence could there be but from the very people people who > claim these divers gods? > Pardon? Does atheists doctrine demand you forsake logic and reason for straw men? I mean, why would we need a God (ideal) who is love to live up to, if we were already loving and caring people? > > We do not have to look very > far as you lot cannot keep away from our popular and lively > newsgroup. Yes here you are again crossposting like mad and > promoting your claim yet again. You just could not resist could you? > Ad hominem? Are you giving up on philosophical discussions/ > Yet all of you lot fail to bring it. Time after time visit after visit > and not one jot of evidence either direct or indiect. You surely > aught to know by now what it is we seek? > We also seek evidence, and Christ supplied the evidence of unconditional love and care to the death, if need be. > In other words it is you - yes you - who are the ones who > convince us we are right to be careful what we choose > to believe and right to withold that belief from the Christian > one. We will not be convinced by your hatred either. > "hatred"? Are you gloing to start sreeching flames now, and are we supposed to follow suit, or do you intend to perform for our amusement? > Naturally the first hurdle the promoters have to climb in order to > convince is the test of coherence. Does the claim make sense > does it 'hang together'? Your claim failed that first test long ago: > "My claim"? You mean my Biblical quotes no doubt, for I made no "claims". This is an academic discussion, divorced from your, or mine personal pelief system. > An all loving god that murders the innocent first born of Egypt in > order to get its way when it could have choosen a much more > peaceful and loving solution? Love? That is not love that is hate. > I see. You are a friend of slavers and regard all who fight against slavery "murderers". You have a right to your opinion. Most would feel justified to take action any way we can, against those who would enslave us. > " For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds, > Lilies that fester, smell far worse than weeds." > - Shakespeare Sonnet No. 94 > > If you want to learn about love Shakespeare is a far better > source of it than the hate filled Bible. > Even if the Christian claim did make sense the story is of > a vicious, nasty vindictive and venegeful god created in the > image of the people that invented it and not one that > is love. Where you get this notion it is love is beyond me. > A god that sends people to a terrible hell for all eternity is a > picture of a heartless and cruel being. Even the heaven > does not look attractive either as its inmates seem to > spend all their time at its feet in fawning worship. Yuk! Real > death looks a far more inviting prospect than either of these > and this is what I devoutly hope for. > Will the real god please stand up as its adherent are > failing it and badly. > Like I said, you obviously like all those the Bible considers evil. But then you could just as well be an automatic contrarian, no thought nor reason required. Quote
Guest Les Hellawell Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:52:27 -0400, Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote: >On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: > >>there would then be no need for faith > >Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. Christians love their circular arguments. God does not reveal himself as a test of faith, they say. Therefore it is must be important to have faith. Pure faith is the ultimate goal. To totally believe without any evidence of any kind is necessary for the heavenly reward when their god eventually reveal itself and show their faith was justified. Thus the very thing that makes us atheist - no evidence - is the same thing that makes their faith in what they believe stong. -- Les Hellawell Greetings from: YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County Quote
Guest Giant Waffle Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:03:39 +0100, while bungee jumping, Les Hellawell <myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> shouted thusly: >On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:52:27 -0400, Christopher A. Lee ><calee@optonline.net> wrote: > >>On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >> >>>there would then be no need for faith >> >>Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >>complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >>virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >>belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. > > >Christians love their circular arguments. God does not reveal >himself as a test of faith, they say. Yea, kind of like atheists with macroevolution. -- Giant Waffle <{{{>< My heart rejoices in the Lord; My horn is exalted in the Lord. I smile at my enemies, because I rejoice in Your salvation. - 1 Samuel 2:1 Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 05:23:02 GMT, Giant Waffle <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote: >On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:03:39 +0100, while bungee jumping, Les >Hellawell <myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> shouted >thusly: > > >>On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:52:27 -0400, Christopher A. Lee >><calee@optonline.net> wrote: >> >>>On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>>there would then be no need for faith >>> >>>Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >>>complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >>>virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >>>belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. >> >> >>Christians love their circular arguments. God does not reveal >>himself as a test of faith, they say. > >Yea, kind of like atheists with macroevolution. Yet again you demonstrate yourself both a liar and an idiot. Quote
Guest thomas p. Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 Giant Waffle skrev: > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:03:39 +0100, while bungee jumping, Les > Hellawell <myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> shouted > thusly: > > > >On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:52:27 -0400, Christopher A. Lee > ><calee@optonline.net> wrote: > > > >>On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: > >> > >>>there would then be no need for faith > >> > >>Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the > >>complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a > >>virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their > >>belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. > > > > > >Christians love their circular arguments. God does not reveal > >himself as a test of faith, they say. > > Yea, kind of like atheists with macroevolution. Actually your analogy is completely false - not to mention ludicrous. Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 On 20 Oct 2006 03:16:12 -0700, "thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote: > >Giant Waffle skrev: >> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:03:39 +0100, while bungee jumping, Les >> Hellawell <myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> shouted >> thusly: >> >> >> >On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:52:27 -0400, Christopher A. Lee >> ><calee@optonline.net> wrote: >> > >> >>On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >>>there would then be no need for faith >> >> >> >>Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >> >>complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >> >>virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >> >>belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. >> > >> > >> >Christians love their circular arguments. God does not reveal >> >himself as a test of faith, they say. >> >> Yea, kind of like atheists with macroevolution. > >Actually your analogy is completely false - not to mention ludicrous. He's using a multiple lie as a tu quoque fallacy. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 "Les Hellawell" <myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> wrote in message news:4tsfj2hcck27dtvep3ek89slmu7vo3nvqn@4ax.com... > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:52:27 -0400, Christopher A. Lee > <calee@optonline.net> wrote: >>On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>there would then be no need for faith >> >>Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >>complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >>virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >>belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. > > Christians love their circular arguments. God does not reveal > himself as a test of faith, they say. Therefore it is must be > important to have faith. Pure faith is the ultimate goal. To totally > believe without any evidence of any kind is necessary for the > heavenly reward when their god eventually reveal itself and > show their faith was justified. Thus the very thing that makes us > atheist - no evidence - is the same thing that makes their faith in > what they believe stong. > Those are all atheist strawmen, for our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and love is knowable and visible in Jesus laying down His innocent life for us condemned sinners, and therefore our God is evidenced by everyone who shows love and care. Hence atheists are being obtuse denying the ideal of love (God) exists, lives and is active in us, or they are habitual contrarians, ...no thought required. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:untgj2hragp1kefv921ki03me1j5uq1g76@4ax.com... > On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 05:23:02 GMT, Giant Waffle > <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote: >>On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:03:39 +0100, while bungee jumping, Les >>Hellawell <myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> shouted >>thusly: >>>On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:52:27 -0400, Christopher A. Lee >>><calee@optonline.net> wrote: >>> >>>>On 26 Sep 2006 08:53:40 -0700, jason.woudsma@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>>there would then be no need for faith >>>> >>>>Why is there "need for faith"? It's a dishonest attempt to turn the >>>>complete absence of any evidence, reason to believe etc , into a >>>>virtue - that believers then hide behind, after they have rubbed their >>>>belief in people's faces and been told to either put up or shut up. >>> >>> >>>Christians love their circular arguments. God does not reveal >>>himself as a test of faith, they say. >> >>Yea, kind of like atheists with macroevolution. > > Yet again you demonstrate yourself both a liar and an idiot. > How is it, that every one of your posts contains the same sentiments? I.e. that every post you answer is authored by "both a liar and an idiot"? Are you a gadfly? Quote
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