Guest marcinmd Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 > > ===>Gods can exist by accident, but universes must be created. ;-) -- L. The better way to say that is "God Exists"..There is no origin or causality ( accident)..."Always existing and ever the same" The Material Universe is different. It had a beginning and will eventually have an end. Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 On 18 Oct 2006 12:00:24 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: > >> >> ===>Gods can exist by accident, but universes must be created. ;-) -- L. > >The better way to say that is "God Exists"..There is no origin or >causality ( accident)..."Always existing and ever the same" Feel free to demonstrate that it does. >The Material Universe is different. It had a beginning and will >eventually have an end. And your evidence for this, is? Quote
Guest marcinmd Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 > > > >Of course there is..Every philosphy and religion has a point of view > >about how they look at the world...... > > And there's also reality, moron. > > What makes you think atheism is a philosopy or religion, in-your-face? Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary philosophy Main Entry: phi Quote
Guest Father Haskell Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 marcinmd wrote: > > It's tell tale Telltale. One word. > that you are so full of insults and specifically name > calling around stupidity and idiocy etc... Stroll about with a "kick me" sign on your back, you're gonna get kicked. Quote
Guest Father Haskell Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 marcinmd wrote: > Anyhow.. We're done now.... Please remember to ask your parents before > logging onto the Internet, you may be disturbing adults with better > things to do. What, is he disrupting your porn searches? Quote
Guest Father Haskell Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 marcinmd wrote: > Anyhow.. We're done now.... Please remember to ask your parents before > logging onto the Internet, you may be disturbing adults with better > things to do. What, is he disrupting your porn searches? Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 On 18 Oct 2006 12:09:35 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: > >> > >> >Of course there is..Every philosphy and religion has a point of view >> >about how they look at the world...... >> >> And there's also reality, moron. >> >> What makes you think atheism is a philosopy or religion, in-your-face? > > > > > Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary > >philosophy > > >Main Entry: phi Quote
Guest Gordon Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:28:28 -0400, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote: >Another god question. > > > >If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was he >so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues, Tsunamis, >Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc. > > > >Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god? > That other spiritual being, Lucifer/Satan, may have had a hand in some of this. Read Job, chapters 1 & 2 for further insight on this. Regard Job and his family as God's true people. Regard Job's friends as good, well meaning people, from a human perspective, but somewhat short of God's true people. Regard those who murdered Job's family and servants, then stole his possessions as people who were totally apart from God, therefore available for Satan to use. Another point to ponder is, how would any of us ever learn all we need to know about sin and rebellion if we were NOT immersed in it? Gordon Quote
Guest Gordon Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 On 25 Sep 2006 17:17:06 -0700, chiron613@gmail.com wrote: >Actually, this does nothing to explain the question. It just shows >that God has been doing this for millennia - something we already knew. > >WHY did God allow Satan to torment Job? Why, in fact, did God create >Satan, and why (if Satan just "went bad", as some claim) doesn't God >get rid of Satan? > >Did you ever see the movie, "Old Yeller"? It's about a great dog. But >the dog gets rabies, and they have to shoot it at the end. That's what >you do with rabid dogs - you shoot them, because they're in misery, and >they can be extremely dangerous. > >The Bible doesn't really explain much of this. It just tells us that >God does things like this - letting Satan wreak havoc on people, even >good people. > My perception on this matter is that we, as mortals, are in the process of learning enough about sin and rebellion to assure God that we will NEVER, EVER want to go back and tinker with it again, after we have been granted absolute sovereignty and immortality. It is indeed a rough training session, but it lasts only a few decades, then it is all over and done with. How significant are these 3 score and 10 years, more or less, compared to eternity? Will any of us look back, 1 million years from now, and resent having had to spend a few decades of rough times, learning about sin and rebellion? Gordon Quote
Guest Father Haskell Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 marcinmd wrote: > > Albert Einstein was hardly an "idiot" and he believe in God as the > root source of creation.. Bullshit. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161048659.980959.198800@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > Bill M wrote: >> >> Another god question. >> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was >> he >> so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues, Tsunamis, >> Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc. >> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god? > > Easy.. > In the Christain view, God created man to live in a perfect World. But > he also gave him free will. That free will led him to the knowledge of > good and evil and hence sin and death entered into the World.. Man > therefore lives in a Fallen World with all the nasty stuff you > mentioned and then some... God does not want robots, he wants people to > have free choice. But they can also chose to be redeemed and he has > provided the means, at great cost, for them to do so..if they want it. > http://www.ourlifeinchrist.com > Well said!!!! People like Bill would choose hell any day, for nothing much happens in heaven to raise one's hackles, and Bill thrives on raised hackles. Just imagine Bill landing in heaven, where there is nothing to complain about, no sickness, nor natural disaster, etc. etc. just the powerful presence of our loving God, the same whom Bill lambasted all his life. then there are His ever worshipping Christian believers singing His praises day and night, the same Bill flamed all his sorry life. I can see Bill screeching in dismay, running in circles, looking for the exit, fingers firmly lodged in his ears, eyes closed in utter disbelief. Wanna bet, Bill wouldn't be much happier in hell? Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message news:45345279.3000409@nothingbutthe.truth... > > ===>Can't you guys see how idiotic it is to believe a FAIRY TALE > that all this happened because a man, sculpted by an alien named > YHWH, dared to eat a fruit? > It is incredible how stupid human beings can be! -- L. > Yep!!! You wouldn't so stupid as to "eat a fruit", would you now, Libertine? But then, you are glad not be a "human bean" like us religious morons, isn't that true? Quote
Guest Father Haskell Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: > > Just imagine Bill landing in heaven, where there is nothing to complain > about, no sickness, nor natural disaster, etc. etc. just the powerful > presence of our loving God, the same whom Bill lambasted all his life. then > there are His ever worshipping Christian believers singing His praises day > and night, the same Bill flamed all his sorry life. Imagine god giving Bill a tour of heaven. Imagine god showing Bill a door, which he opens, revealing a long stairway descending without end. The hot air smells of burnt tires. Occasionally, lightning flashes illuminate in the depths, followed by distant tormented shriekings and wailings. God leans forwards to better enjoy the view. Bill, standing behind god, suddenly realizes he'll never have a better chance... Quote
Guest marcinmd Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 > > Stroll about with a "kick me" sign on your back, you're > gonna get kicked. Sir, I have been "kicked" by no one, I assure you... The only damage ad hominem attacks do are to the people who employ the tactic. Quote
Guest marcinmd Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 Father Haskell wrote: > marcinmd wrote: > > > > Albert Einstein was hardly an "idiot" and he believe in God as the > > root source of creation.. > > Bullshit. -------------------- Did Albert Einstein Believe in a Personal God? by Rich Deem I get a fair amount of e-mail about Albert Einstein's quote on the homepage of Evidence for God from Science, so I thought it would be good to clarify the matter. Atheists object to the use of the quote, since Einstein might best be described as an agnostic.2 Einstein himself stated quite clearly that he did not believe in a personal God: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." So, the quick answer to the question is that Einstein did not believe in a personal God. It is however, interesting how he arrived at that conclusion. In developing the theory of relativity, Einstein realized that the equations led to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. He didn't like the idea of a beginning, because he thought one would have to conclude that the universe was created by God. So, he added a cosmological constant to the equation to attempt to get rid of the beginning. He said this was one of the worst mistakes of his life. Of course, the results of Edwin Hubble confirmed that the universe was expanding and had a beginning at some point in the past. So, Einstein became a deist - a believer in an impersonal creator God: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." It is the second part of the quote that reveals the reason Einstein rejected the existence of a personal God. Einstein compared the remarkable design and order of the cosmos and could not reconcile those characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human existence. How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that exists on earth? Einstein's failure to understand the motives of God are the result of his incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His ultimate perfect creation. Einstein could not get past the moral problems that are present in our universe. He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal God would only create a universe which is both good morally and perfect physically. However, according to Christianity, the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity. It would not be possible to make this choice in a universe in which all moral choices are restricted to only good choices. Einstein didn't seem to understand that one could not choose between good and bad if bad did not exist. It's amazing that such a brilliant man could not understand such a simple logical principle. These days, those who fail to understand the purpose of evil not only reject the concept of a personal God, but also reject the concept of God's existence altogether. If you are an agnostic or atheist, my goal for you would be to recognize what Albert Einstein understood about the universe - that its amazing design demands the existence of a creator God. Then, go beyond Einstein's faulty understanding of the purpose of the universe and consider the Christian explanation for the purpose of human life and why evil must exist in this world. Quote
Guest marcinmd Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 Famous Scientists Who Believed in God http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161113232.234965.165540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Can't you see how unlikely it is that the Universe and all that is in > it is an accident? Even superficial observation of nature would lead a > reasonable person to see a divine hand. That is why almost every > society advanced and primitive alike have assumed some sort of Divine > root to creation.. > It was not until the 19th century that Atheism appear on the scene. As > people more and more lived in world that was mechanical, plastic > wrapped and freeze dried the more they have become estranged from the > natural order. Never the less, science has dove-tailed many > assumptions of the Judeo Christian World View.. Multiple dimensions, > the nature of time and space and survival of death have all been > increasingly confirmed and understood by the scientific method.. > Science deals with observing, naming and listing of what is. It's what Adam did with God's creation. The "Christian world-view" is about the quality of actions on the scale of good and evil, and implementing ideals of qualities which culminate in the Kingdom of Heaven. It has therefore nothing in common with science and the scientific method. > Albert Einstein was hardly an "idiot" and he believe in God as the > root source of creation.. Atheism simply does not answer the question > "Why is there something rather than nothing" . Why would only Material > be eternally existent and not life itself? Atheists have problems with > ceding authority above their own personal ego's. > Atheists look for science and the scientific method for answers in the material world. Christians are to look for answers in the quality of their actions and relationships, meaning in the spiritual / attitudinal realm. > As far as creation myths go, they should not be read like a blueprint > as to.. HOW.. things were created. They explain.. WHY.. the World was > created, which is an infinitely more valuable message. > For all we know for certain, we and the entire cosmos might well be as substantial as a dream in the mind of God. See below Pastor Frank Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:4pku2lFj0q9kU1@individual.net... > "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message > news:1161113232.234965.165540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> >> Can't you see how unlikely it is that the Universe and all that is in >> it is an accident? > > Sure, but that still doesn't prove that a god exists. > Robyn > Resident Witchypoo #1557 No "proof" of any "god" of YOUR definition, that's for sure. You make sure that your definition of the word "god" is sufficiently ludicrous to preclude the existence of any such construct. However if you insist on existing gods, I have a whole drawer full of existing gods for sale, all in good shape and not any worse for wear. Since I got to know Jesus, I don't need nor care for them anymore. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message news:45354EC8.2030105@nothingbutthe.truth... > > In fact most people are Atheists to some degree. Christians will deny the > the Mayan, Hindu, Ancient Roman, Ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient > Sumerian, Ancient Baylonian, etc. Gods and Goddesses. > What do you know about "Christians" Libertine? Nothing!!!! We don't "deny" any such gods. In fact we believe in the existence of all those gods you list, we just decline to give them any credence, or put our faith into them. Is it true you lost faith in your God, the "eternal cosmos" as per subject above, and which ain't eternal? Then why not have another look at our glorious God incarnate, Jesus Christ? He came for the lost, and don't you think you are sufficiently lost to qualify? Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161187211.311861.225940@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Wow....Atheism does not seem to have helped you much with personal > character building.. > > > It's tell tale that you are so full of insults and specifically name > calling around stupidity and idiocy etc...This points to the real > motivation behind clinging to Atheism for many people..Without a higher > authority, they personally rule the Universe...Ego has no bounds. > Morals have no boundaries... No final judgement, no authority, just you > and your ever expanding self....So anyone who does not agree is > "Stupid" because the real issue is not always the nature of reality and > God but rather personal ego, control issues. LOL! Go hang out on a religious newsgroup sometime. Those people are at each others' throats constantly. So much for religion making one a better person. -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:54:32 -0400, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >"marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message >news:1161187211.311861.225940@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> Wow....Atheism does not seem to have helped you much with personal >> character building.. >> >> >> It's tell tale that you are so full of insults and specifically name >> calling around stupidity and idiocy etc...This points to the real >> motivation behind clinging to Atheism for many people..Without a higher >> authority, they personally rule the Universe...Ego has no bounds. >> Morals have no boundaries... No final judgement, no authority, just you >> and your ever expanding self....So anyone who does not agree is >> "Stupid" because the real issue is not always the nature of reality and >> God but rather personal ego, control issues. > >LOL! Go hang out on a religious newsgroup sometime. Those people are at >each others' throats constantly. > >So much for religion making one a better person. He was just being stupid. The clue was the snipping of teh stupidity that got him treated like the idiot he showed himself. And look at the number of lies in his response as well as more sheer, utter stupidity. Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161194486.640621.254840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > >> >> Hardly - There is no such thing as an "Athiest World View". > > > Of course there is.. Wrong. Every philosphy and religion has a point of view > about how they look at the world...... So? Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). That's it. It's not a philosophy and it's not a world view. -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161198575.783566.227260@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > > >Of course there is..Every philosphy and religion has a point of view > >about how they look at the world...... > > And there's also reality, moron. > > What makes you think atheism is a philosopy or religion, in-your-face? Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary philosophy Main Entry: phi Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161198024.178524.216190@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > >> >> ===>Gods can exist by accident, but universes must be created. ;-) -- L. > > The better way to say that is "God Exists".. Why? There's no evidence a god exists. -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161223013.305546.33870@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > > Famous Scientists Who Believed in God > > > http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html So? -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Quote
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