Guest Libertarius Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 Father Haskell wrote: > marcinmd wrote: > >>Albert Einstein was hardly an "idiot" and he believe in God as the >>root source of creation.. > > > Bullshit. ===>Right. How ignorant! Anyone who thinks that, knows nothing about Einstein. And to attempt top justify one's fantasy idol with such inane statements only shows how shaky the beliefs of certain individuals such as "marcinmd" really are. -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: > "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message > news:45345279.3000409@nothingbutthe.truth... > >>===>Can't you guys see how idiotic it is to believe a FAIRY TALE >>that all this happened because a man, sculpted by an alien named >>YHWH, dared to eat a fruit? >>It is incredible how stupid human beings can be! -- L. >> > > Yep!!! You wouldn't so stupid as to "eat a fruit", would you now, > Libertine? But then, you are glad not be a "human bean" like us religious > morons, isn't that true? ===>You still suffer from reading comprehension, "pastor" Fake! The stupidity is NOT in the eating of a fruit, but in attributing all the evils on this planet to that simple, innocent act, which, even by the admission of the alien YHWH, resulted in the consequences promised by Talking Snake. Even though you know enough to admit you are a "religious moron", as you said, it is still obvious that little by little you are losing it, poor "pastor", sheepherder with no sheep! Is there an insane asylum near you in Canada? If yes, make a reservation. ;-) -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 marcinmd wrote: > Father Haskell wrote: > >>marcinmd wrote: >> >>>Albert Einstein was hardly an "idiot" and he believe in God as the >>>root source of creation.. >> >>Bullshit. > > -------------------- > Did Albert Einstein Believe in a Personal God? > by Rich Deem > > I get a fair amount of e-mail about Albert Einstein's quote on the > homepage of Evidence for God from Science, so I thought it would be > good to clarify the matter. Atheists object to the use of the quote, > since Einstein might best be described as an agnostic.2 Einstein > himself stated quite clearly that he did not believe in a personal God: > > "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, > a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a > personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it > clearly." > > So, the quick answer to the question is that Einstein did not believe > in a personal God. It is however, interesting how he arrived at that > conclusion. In developing the theory of relativity, Einstein realized > that the equations led to the conclusion that the universe had a > beginning. He didn't like the idea of a beginning, because he thought > one would have to conclude that the universe was created by God. So, he > added a cosmological constant to the equation to attempt to get rid of > the beginning. He said this was one of the worst mistakes of his life. > Of course, the results of Edwin Hubble confirmed that the universe was > expanding and had a beginning at some point in the past. So, Einstein > became a deist - a believer in an impersonal creator God: ===>You appear to understand neither what a "Deist" is, nor what Albert Einstein was talking about! > > "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony > of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and > actions of human beings." > > It is the second part of the quote that reveals the reason Einstein > rejected the existence of a personal God. Einstein compared the > remarkable design and order of the cosmos and could not reconcile those > characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human > existence. How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that > exists on earth? ===>You are implying that Albert did not understand what Baruch was talking about when he equated "God" with "Nature". But it is clear from his writings that he did, and he was no "Deist"! > > Einstein's failure to understand the motives of God are the result of > his incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His > ultimate perfect creation. ===>as I said, you haven't the slightest undretanding of either EInstein or Deism, or Spinoza, in fact you don't even understand your own religion! Your statements are sheer nonsense! The rest of your ramblings are clear proof of that! -- L. Einstein could not get past the moral > problems that are present in our universe. He assumed, as most atheists > do, that a personal God would only create a universe which is both good > morally and perfect physically. However, according to Christianity, the > purpose of the universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but > to provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or > reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or > reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity. It would not be > possible to make this choice in a universe in which all moral choices > are restricted to only good choices. Einstein didn't seem to understand > that one could not choose between good and bad if bad did not exist. > It's amazing that such a brilliant man could not understand such a > simple logical principle. > > These days, those who fail to understand the purpose of evil not only > reject the concept of a personal God, but also reject the concept of > God's existence altogether. If you are an agnostic or atheist, my goal > for you would be to recognize what Albert Einstein understood about the > universe - that its amazing design demands the existence of a creator > God. Then, go beyond Einstein's faulty understanding of the purpose of > the universe and consider the Christian explanation for the purpose of > human life and why evil must exist in this world. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 marcinmd wrote: > Famous Scientists Who Believed in God > > > http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html ===>Trying to justify your falkse beliefs by appealing to "famous scientists" only proves your beliefs have no foundation! -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Robibnikoff wrote: > "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message > news:1161198024.178524.216190@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > >>>===>Gods can exist by accident, but universes must be created. ;-) -- L. >> >>The better way to say that is "God Exists".. > > > Why? There's no evidence a god exists. ===>It does as an idea in a believer's head. -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 marcinmd wrote: >>So? Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). That's it. It's not a >>philosophy and it's not a world view. >>-- >>Robyn >>Resident Witchypoo > > > I think you are confusing Nilism with Atheism... ===>Did you mean HIHILism? Perhaps a "nilist" would be one who worships the river Nile? ;-) -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: [sNIPALOT] >> > > For all we know for certain, we and the entire cosmos might well be as > substantial as a dream in the mind of God. ===>So, now you claim that "love" has a "mind"??? -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message > news:4pku2lFj0q9kU1@individual.net... > >>"marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message >>news:1161113232.234965.165540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> >>>Can't you see how unlikely it is that the Universe and all that is in >>>it is an accident? >> >>Sure, but that still doesn't prove that a god exists. >>Robyn >>Resident Witchypoo #1557 > > No "proof" of any "god" of YOUR definition, that's for sure. You make > sure that your definition of the word "god" is sufficiently ludicrous to > preclude the existence of any such construct. > However if you insist on existing gods, I have a whole drawer full of > existing gods for sale, all in good shape and not any worse for wear. Since > I got to know Jesus, I don't need nor care for them anymore. ===>What a LIAR! All you "got to know" are some stories in a book, and an image you formed on that basis in your mind! Even if the "Jesus" of those stories existed, you would be too young to have known the guy. -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: > "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message > news:p4tcj2hjebnm5ultt69n99fv7fa1h1he79@4ax.com... > >>On 18 Oct 2006 11:01:26 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: >> >>>>Hardly - There is no such thing as an "Athiest World View". >>> >>>Of course there is..Every philosphy and religion has a point of view >>>about how they look at the world...... >> >>And there's also reality, moron. >>What makes you think atheism is a philosopy or religion, in-your-face >>moron? >>Is not-believing-in-Santa-Claus a philosophy or religion on your >>planet? >> > > No. But calling everyone you disagree with "moron" is an important tenet > of atheist doctrine. ===>Funny. I just read a message in which you called YOURSELF a religious moron! ;-) -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: > "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message > news:1161198024.178524.216190@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > >>>===>Gods can exist by accident, but universes must be created. ;-) -- L. >> >>The better way to say that is "God Exists"..There is no origin or >>causality ( accident)..."Always existing and ever the same" >>The Material Universe is different. It had a beginning and will >>eventually have an end. >> > > Careful Libertine!!! If you get in too deep, you may fail to come up in > time for air. "by accident" indeed!!!! ===>Trying to be cute, "pastor" Fake? How else do YOU think gods exist if not by accident? I say they are created by human minds. What do YOU say? Accident? ;-) -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: > "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message > news:fkucj2p7sht1fnnrb2fujbsrnh61bjrsgq@4ax.com... > >>On 18 Oct 2006 12:00:24 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: >> >>>>===>Gods can exist by accident, but universes must be created. ;-) -- L. >>> >>>The better way to say that is "God Exists"..There is no origin or >>>causality ( accident)..."Always existing and ever the same" >> >>Feel free to demonstrate that it does. >> >> >>>The Material Universe is different. It had a beginning and will >>>eventually have an end. >> >>And your evidence for this, is? >> > > All the things which do have a beginning and an end, and the paucity of > things which do not. Why be secretive Christopher? Tell us already of all > the things you know which don't have a beginning nor an end. ===>You know as well as I do, "pastor" Fake. EXISTENCE, the universal substance, the Cosmic Totality has np beginning and no end, though its processes do produce ephemeral entities. Perhaps even beings you would recognize as gods, e.g. the Elohim of the Bible. -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 marcinmd wrote: >> Science deals with observing, naming and listing of what is. It's what >>Adam did with God's creation. The "Christian world-view" is about the >>quality of actions on the scale of good and evil, and implementing ideals of >>qualities which culminate in the Kingdom of Heaven. It has therefore nothing >>in common with science and the scientific method. > > \ > > I think that is well said. But it is also true that Science continues, > in it's own way, to make discoveries that confirm the Judeo-Christian > view point. They are not contradictory in other words. ===>You are fantasizing again, marci! > > For example, the claim that some things are "invisible" was scoffed at > until science acquired the technology to see things not visible to the > human eye..Then later, science figured that the Universe is > multidimensional...... Albert Einstein came to the conclusion that the > created universe had a beginning ===>Now you are LYING! He never spoke of any "created universe"! Does lying make you feel stronger in your silly beliefs? ( and will have an end) which is a key > point of Christian cosmology.... > > Let there be light... Turns out to be pretty accurate. ===>You're grasping at straws to buttress your silly ideas. Why not just stick to baseless, credulous FAITH? -- L. Quote
Guest Libertarius Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Pastor Frank wrote: > "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message > news:45354EC8.2030105@nothingbutthe.truth... > >>In fact most people are Atheists to some degree. Christians will deny the >>the Mayan, Hindu, Ancient Roman, Ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient >>Sumerian, Ancient Baylonian, etc. Gods and Goddesses. >> > > What do you know about "Christians" Libertine? Nothing!!!! ===>Libertarius knows all there is to know about Christians. That even includes your phony Neo-Marcionite "Christianity" based on a hatred for Jews, "their" OT, and "their" god YHWH, whom you denounce because you have invented your own "god", NARCISSISM! We don't > "deny" any such gods. In fact we believe in the existence of all those gods > you list, we just decline to give them any credence, or put our faith into > them. ===>Now THAT is funny! Thanks for the laugh! > Is it true you lost faith in your God, the "eternal cosmos" as per > subject above, and which ain't eternal? ===>I have NEVER, EVER called it "my God". The Eternal Cosmos is EXISTENCE ITSELF, which will always exist, while your "love God" will expire with your last breath. ALL GODS WORSHIPPED BY MEN ARE IDOLS! -- L. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161372178.780744.264580@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> >> No, that term should be reserved for people who... I don't know... think >> the earth is only 6,000 years old, believe evolution doesn't happen, or >> claim the moon landing was faked. > > Straw Man argument... Only one tiny slice of the Christian World are > fundementalists..The historic Church, both the Eastern Orthodox Church > and the Roman Catholic Church dont believe in your characterization at > all. > It's like calling all Atheists Communists...Care to defend the > Gulag..and Mass Murder by the Stalinists..? The USSR was Officially > Athiest you know. > Atheism was the state religion of the USSSR producing some startling results. See below Pastor Frank Preamble to: THE FRUITS OF MILITANT ATHEISM in the new USSR By Brian Moynahan/The Faith: A History of Christianity/Doubleday, NY/2002/pp. 670-674. The unenlightened ego, with its drive to power and social control, has been problematic both inside and outside of religion. The preceding examples show the militant atheist ego at its murderous worst. They also reveal that religionists are not the only people who cower in the herd, as is shown by the Stalinists' pathetic recourse to 'atheist churches' such as the LEAGUE OF THE MILITANT GODLESS and the Groups of THE GODLESS YOUTH, complete with 'hymns.' = = = = = = = = = = = == = = == = = = = = = = == === = == = A decree in January 1918... banned religious teaching in all schools, colleges, and universities. All church buildings were taken by the state... Church and monastic land was nationalized. No compensation was offered for confiscated assets... Under the new constitution, the clergy - together with capitalists, criminals, and imbeciles - were deprived of the right to vote or hold state offices. In practice this denied the clergy the right to food rations and their children to education... the Orthodox Church was stripped of its legal privileges, its land, and its source of income... Calculated persecution returned after the Bolshevik victory in 1921. Lenin sanctioned terror as a form of pesticide to be used on people whom he dehumanized as "harmful insects...scoundrel fleas...bedbugs"... Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote in message news:1161373483.100276.129030@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... >> > >> > Yes but it is also important to remember what kind of Christian you are >> > speaking about. In the East, the physical world is not looked at like >> > something to be discarded or a fake covering for the reality of >> > spiritual existence. The created world also reveals God so what we >> > learn about it matters to a certain extent. >> > >> You cite no evidence for your assertion, << > > That the material world reveals God? Geee.... Er...Blue Sky...Birds in > flight... Um Ocean crashing....Birth....etc.... Seems obvious and the > revelation of God through matter is in fact a long held tenant of the > Church. > >> and I disagree. Eastern philosophy is based on maya, >> meaning illusion. > > You misunderstand.. I meant Eastern Christiainity > > Religion deals with >> qualities, such as attitudes, opinion, judgment regarding good and evil >> actions etc. not with creation itself.<< > > That's correct...I undersand that about Buddhism etc. but that was not > my reference as I just wrote above. > >> >> For all we know for certain, we and the entire cosmos might well >> >> be >> >> as substantial as a dream in the mind of God. See below >> > >> > This is why personal interpretation is not a good idea. >> >> Whose non-personal interpretation do you prefer?<<< > > The Church >> > >> > You can simply >> > conclude that anything is possible and stop caring. >> > >> What does Christ say about that? Let me quote: Jesus in Mk:10:27: And >> Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with >> God: >> for with God all things are possible. >> Why would "all things are possible" produce apathy?<< > > You can slip into Nilism when you speculate based on your own personal > interpretations of scripture. > You don't trust the Holy Spirit then, do you? You would rather have ad numerum, i.e. the traditional majority opinion of the church instead of the words of Jesus Christ as revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. I would go the other way. I would listen to Christ but decline the Mary worship of the RCC. I don't know enough about Orthodox church doctrine to tell how well they adhere to sola scriptura. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 "Father Haskell" <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1161387235.840741.110190@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > Pastor Frank wrote: >> >> God who is now in hell > > Very GOOD! You're catching onto this blasphemy thing > like an old pro! > God is always in hell praying with sinners, as Christ did. God never abandons any of His children, but came as Jesus Christ to open the doors of their prison. All they need to do is take His hand and let Him lead them up and out of the darkness into the light of day. But as you can see right in these NGs, they would rather reject, screeching flames and accusations, for hell is the only home they have known and they are afraid to leave. God the father respects His children's wishes and will not yank them out of their cages, forcing them into His heaven. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 "Father Haskell" <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1161387350.958396.255250@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > Pastor Frank wrote: >> "Father Haskell" <fatherhaskell@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:1161298847.248587.327090@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... >> > marcinmd wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Stroll about with a "kick me" sign on your back, you're >> >> > gonna get kicked. >> >> >> >> Sir, I have been "kicked" by no one, I assure you... The only damage >> >> ad >> >> hominem attacks do are to the people who employ the tactic. >> > >> > Flamed on usenet, kicked in the ass by half the school, including >> > the janitor, big difference. >> >> Who "kicks" whom and who's left standing is a big thing in atheist >> circles. > > Checked the back of your shirt lately? > So what? Christ suffered more from atheists disguised as religionists. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message news:4539696D.3070506@nothingbutthe.truth... > Pastor Frank wrote: >> >> For all we know for certain, we and the entire cosmos might well be >> as substantial as a dream in the mind of God. > > ===>So, now you claim that "love" has a "mind"??? -- L. > Only atheist love is a mindless feeling requiring no evidence. Christian love is the opposite. Christian love is mindful, for it requires loving action for evidence. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message news:45398F72.2020708@nothingbutthe.truth... > Pastor Frank wrote: >> "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message >> news:fkucj2p7sht1fnnrb2fujbsrnh61bjrsgq@4ax.com... >>>On 18 Oct 2006 12:00:24 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>===>Gods can exist by accident, but universes must be created. ;-) -- >>>>>L. >>>> >>>>The better way to say that is "God Exists"..There is no origin or >>>>causality ( accident)..."Always existing and ever the same" >>> >>>Feel free to demonstrate that it does. >>> >>>>The Material Universe is different. It had a beginning and will >>>>eventually have an end. >>> >>>And your evidence for this, is? >> >> All the things which do have a beginning and an end, and the paucity >> of things which do not. Why be secretive Christopher? Tell us already of >> all the things you know which don't have a beginning nor an end. > > ===>You know as well as I do, "pastor" Fake. > EXISTENCE, the universal substance, the Cosmic Totality has np beginning > and no end, though its processes do produce ephemeral entities. Perhaps > even beings you would recognize as gods, > e.g. the Elohim of the Bible. -- L. > The opposite is true Libertine!!! God created "the Cosmos", not the other way around. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message news:45399297.5080309@nothingbutthe.truth... > Pastor Frank wrote: >> "Libertarius" <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote in message >> news:45354EC8.2030105@nothingbutthe.truth... >> >>>In fact most people are Atheists to some degree. Christians will deny the >>>the Mayan, Hindu, Ancient Roman, Ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient >>>Sumerian, Ancient Baylonian, etc. Gods and Goddesses. >> >> What do you know about "Christians" Libertine? Nothing!!!! > > ===>Libertarius knows all there is to know about Christians. > That even includes your phony Neo-Marcionite "Christianity" based on > a hatred for Jews, "their" OT, and "their" god YHWH, whom you denounce > because you have invented your own "god", NARCISSISM! > >> We don't >> "deny" any such gods. In fact we believe in the existence of all those >> gods you list, we just decline to give them any credence, or put our >> faith into them. > > ===>Now THAT is funny! > Thanks for the laugh! > You don't laugh Libertine, you snicker without reason like an idiot. >> Is it true you lost faith in your God, the "eternal cosmos" as per >> subject above, and which ain't eternal? > > ===>I have NEVER, EVER called it "my God". The Eternal Cosmos is > EXISTENCE ITSELF, which will always exist, while your "love God" will > expire with your last breath. > ALL GODS WORSHIPPED BY MEN ARE IDOLS! -- L. > You got that reversed again Libertine. Your cosmos is created and material, and will perish as all matter will. The only thing eternal is the holy and inerrant Word of God. The quality which is love will exist in all eternity, as all qualities will, for qualities are spiritual and not material. Quote
Guest Scott Richter Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 marcinmd <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: > > No, that term should be reserved for people who... I don't know... think > > the earth is only 6,000 years old, believe evolution doesn't happen, or > > claim the moon landing was faked. > > Straw Man argument... Only one tiny slice of the Christian World are > fundementalists.. The historic Church, both the Eastern Orthodox Church > and the Roman Catholic Church dont believe in your characterization at > all. Churches don't have beliefs, people do. The person to whom I was responding has publicly stated he believes in at least two of the three crackpot ideas, which more than quallifies him as a moron. And he calls himself a pastor, to boot... Quote
Guest marcinmd Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 Christopher A. Lee wrote: > On 20 Oct 2006 12:44:43 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: > > > > And how is that vidence? It's merely what some people out of touch > with reality think, who can't grasp that only people inside their > religion will think that. Because the World is ordered in such a way as to impy a divine hand. Define "reality" Quote
Guest marcinmd Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 >From RCC catachism: II. WAYS OF COMING TO KNOW GOD 31 Created in God's image and called to know and love him, the person who seeks God discovers certain ways of coming to know him. These are also called proofs for the existence of God, not in the sense of proofs in the natural sciences, but rather in the sense of "converging and convincing arguments", which allow us to attain certainty about the truth. These "ways" of approaching God from creation have a twofold point of departure: the physical world, and the human person. 32 The world: starting from movement, becoming, contingency, and the world's order and beauty, one can come to a knowledge of God as the origin and the end of the universe. As St. Paul says of the Gentiles: For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.[7] And St. Augustine issues this challenge: Question the beauty of the earth, question the beauty of the sea, question the beauty of the air distending and diffusing itself, question the beauty of the sky. . . question all these realities. All respond: "See, we are beautiful." Their beauty is a profession [confessio]. These beauties are subject to change. Who made them if not the Beautiful One [Pulcher] who is not subject to change?[8] 33 The human person: with his openness to truth and beauty, his sense of moral goodness, his freedom and the voice of his conscience, with his longings for the infinite and for happiness, man questions himself about God's existence. In all this he discerns signs of his spiritual soul. The soul, the "seed of eternity we bear in ourselves, irreducible to the merely material",[9] can have its origin only in God. 34 The world, and man, attest that they contain within themselves neither their first principle nor their final end, but rather that they participate in Being itself, which alone is without origin or end. Thus, in different ways, man can come to know that there exists a reality which is the first cause and final end of all things, a reality "that everyone calls God".[10] 35 Man's faculties make him capable of coming to a knowledge of the existence of a personal God. But for man to be able to enter into real intimacy with him, God willed both to reveal himself to man, and to give him the grace of being able to welcome this revelation in faith.(so) The proofs of God's existence, however, can predispose one to faith and help one to see that faith is not opposed to reason. Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 On 21 Oct 2006 10:05:32 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: > >Christopher A. Lee wrote: >> On 20 Oct 2006 12:44:43 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: Here's what you snipped.... "That the material world reveals God? Geee.... Er...Blue Sky...Birds in flight... Um Ocean crashing....Birth....etc.... Seems obvious and the revelation of God through matter is in fact a long held tenant of the Church." How is the irrelevant tenet (not tenant) of "the Church" evidence for anything apart from the fact that its members believe something? >> And how is that evidence? It's merely what some people out of touch >> with reality think, who can't grasp that only people inside their >> religion will think that. Now explain why it's evidence. Hint: you can't start off from the presumption of "the divine". >Because the World is ordered in such a way as to impy a divine hand. Only in your deluded fantasies. >Define "reality" That which doesn't go away when you stop believing it. Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted October 21, 2006 Posted October 21, 2006 On 21 Oct 2006 10:11:59 -0700, "marcinmd" <marcinmd@aol.com> wrote: >>From RCC catachism: > > >II. WAYS OF COMING TO KNOW GOD Why are you cross-posting this stupidity to an atheist newsgroup? [snip wothless bullshit] Quote
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