Guest Dan Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 I want to start a new topic on this because the Biometrics debate has gotten too long. I will now post Chris Quirke, MVPs reply to me about my thinking the 9x (98 Second Edition) should be part of the internal Defense Network of this source code. Chris Quirke, MVP says: I think we have the same ideas, but weigh things differently and reach different conclusions - you see the 9x code base itself as being something to be preserved at all costs, where I see the factors that make the 9x code base safer in certain respects as something that should inform other code base development. An interesting point from the article I linked for you, was the difference between deeply re-architecting an existing code base, and starting a new code base from scratch. I'd have though such deep design change to be as disruptive as re-coding from scratch, but apparently this is not the case. If that's so, then it may be practical to re-architect the NT code base as a true stand-alone OS, which keeps networking out of the center as an discardable subsystem should unexpected risks demand that response. I put it this way; exposed code surfaces are like points of wear in a car. You don't merge piston rings into pistons (or brake shoes into axles) so that when these parts get worn, they are easy to replace. Same thing with code surfaces; you may have to suddenly amputate or replace them, so don't embed them in the core of how the OS works. For example, an OS should be able to wipe its own butt without RPC, and/or not expose RPC to network surfaces (especially the Internet). It shouldn't rely on RPC to do internal things, weld this into Internet exposure, and then rely on a firewall as a band aid over this clickless, remotable risk surface. Quote
Guest S. Pidgorny Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 G'day: "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:9FE39DA9-023E-49AE-9D5A-3D78E30372BA@microsoft.com... <span style="color:blue"> > I think we have the same ideas, but weigh things differently and > reach different conclusions - you see the 9x code base itself as > being something to be preserved at all costs, where I see the > factors that make the 9x code base safer in certain respects as > something that should inform other code base development.</span> Windows 3.1/9x code base is now dead. Everything is NT. Not sure about mobile devices but will not be surprised with XP as the base for Windows Mobile next version. <span style="color:blue"> > For example, an OS should be able to wipe its own butt without > RPC, and/or not expose RPC to network surfaces (especially > the Internet). It shouldn't rely on RPC to do internal things, weld > this into Internet exposure, and then rely on a firewall as a band > aid over this clickless, remotable risk surface.</span> RPC is as good (or bad, depending on your by-default attitude) as any other IPC. I can disable RPC in Windows and still run software, but I see no reason to. -- Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE -= F1 is the key =- http://sl.mvps.org http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp Quote
Guest Dan Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 Windows 9x may be dead somewhat to Microsoft but it is alive and kicking everywhere else with Mozilla still supporting it with their web browser as well as AVG 7.5 supporting it as well. People do not realize how stable it has become. Heck, 98 Second Edition for me is more stable than XP Professional. Vista while it is stable enough for me still suffers somewhat with compatibility issues. However, Vista is indeed tops with external security. However, Windows 9x has the internal safety and less surface area to attack because it does not have the services that XP has and XP likes to throw all the information back compared to 98 Second Edition which is a lot quieter and runs really well on older PC's. You talk about a great opportunity for all those used computers that cannot run XP and why not have them run 98SE instead of being tossed in the landfill. I am sure there are many people around the world that would see having a computer as a great luxury. Thanks for replying though and I appreciate your views and I already know about the end of life software date of July 11, 2006. BTW, did you know this fact on the Microsoft 98 Second Edition page: http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1139 Last Review : February 28, 2008 It sounds like Microsoft does care for 98 Second Edition users like myself who are looking into ways for the company to expand and explore new avenues into the future of information technology. Microsoft is really great about supporting their legacy users and I feel that Microsoft has a much better track record of caring than say Apple who thinks their products are, oh so great, that Apple can charge a huge premium for them when Apples are based upon open source code anyway. You talk about how ironic that is. Furthermore, Bill Gates and Microsoft are the bad guys in many people's eyes but that is simply not true because Microsoft is gladly willing to help its users and Bill Gates is now working to make the world a better place for people who have limited opportunities and are starving and sick with Aids and Malaria through his Foundation. So you see that Windows 9x is not truly dead. The reason being is that it still has life in it and why do you think Microsoft has not sold the 9x source code if it is useless. The great thing about 9x is that it is compatibility with older software and games and uses MS-DOS as a maintenance operating system compared to Vista. I am using 98 Second Edition as I post back to you and it never seems to have any issues anymore as long as you don't use too much ram. I use 512 megabytes of ram with it and editted the system.ini to recognize less and have a 256 megabyte ATI video card. Nope, it is Windows XP Service Pack 3 that is having the issues right now with people having trouble getting updates for it without the proper patch to register the .dlls again. In addition, Windows Vista has great external security but lacks the internal safety of a 9x operating system. I use XP Professional in a dual-boot on the same machine on a seperate hard drive. It is NTFS file system compared to the Fat32 file system of 98 Second Edition. The thing is when the APS domain was hacked into last summer (2007), the hacker(s) got into the XP Professional side of my machine because the external security of the network was destroyed. However, I was also using VPN to link with the Intranet of the APS domain and 9x did not get hacked because it has internal safety of a smaller surface area, no rpc, a true maintenance operating system of MS-DOS, etc. So you can see how 9x machines were meant to be stand alone. In this ever increasing digital age, I am surprised that more home consumers do not rise up and demand another 9x operating system to be able to be more stand-a-lone and not report in to their boss and/or the government all of the time. Are people really that willing to give up their precious freedoms to others and end up having the equivalent of a network computer that does not have an essence of its own individuality. It surprises that so many people do not see this and the coming danger of willing to have just one easily hackable source code out there. You must have a comprehensive internal safety and external security solution with closed and open source technologies available from Microsoft and others to make the best operating systems out there possible and to help mitigate any incoming threats that may want to harm the Matrix FrameWork and Subsystems of the Network. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "S. Pidgorny <MVP>" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > G'day: > > "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:9FE39DA9-023E-49AE-9D5A-3D78E30372BA@microsoft.com... > <span style="color:green"> > > I think we have the same ideas, but weigh things differently and > > reach different conclusions - you see the 9x code base itself as > > being something to be preserved at all costs, where I see the > > factors that make the 9x code base safer in certain respects as > > something that should inform other code base development.</span> > > Windows 3.1/9x code base is now dead. Everything is NT. Not sure about > mobile devices but will not be surprised with XP as the base for Windows > Mobile next version. > <span style="color:green"> > > For example, an OS should be able to wipe its own butt without > > RPC, and/or not expose RPC to network surfaces (especially > > the Internet). It shouldn't rely on RPC to do internal things, weld > > this into Internet exposure, and then rely on a firewall as a band > > aid over this clickless, remotable risk surface.</span> > > RPC is as good (or bad, depending on your by-default attitude) as any other > IPC. I can disable RPC in Windows and still run software, but I see no > reason to. > > -- > Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE > -= F1 is the key =- > > http://sl.mvps.org http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp > > > > </span> Quote
Guest S. Pidgorny Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 G'day: "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:55349169-F536-4137-B4A3- <span style="color:blue"> > So you see that Windows 9x is not truly dead. The reason being is that it > still has life in it and why do you think Microsoft has not sold the 9x > source code if it is useless.</span> I didn't say that Windows 9x is dead, or that the code is useless. I said the codebase is dead - in a sense that there is no active development on the code base. Why it is not sold, or made open - I don't know, and cannot speculate. <span style="color:blue"> > The thing is when the APS domain was hacked into last summer (2007), the > hacker(s) got into the XP Professional side of my machine because the > external security of the network was destroyed. However, I was also using > VPN to link with the Intranet of the APS domain and 9x did not get hacked > because it has internal safety of a smaller surface area, no rpc, a true > maintenance operating system of MS-DOS, etc.</span> The reason your internal network wasn't hacked is not that Windows 95 doesn't have RPC. In targeted attacks, platform switch doesn't stop intruders who usualy collect credentials and go from there. <span style="color:blue"> > So you can see how 9x machines > were meant to be stand alone. In this ever increasing digital age, I am > surprised that more home consumers do not rise up and demand another 9x > operating system to be able to be more stand-a-lone and not report in to > their boss and/or the government all of the time. Are people really that > willing to give up their precious freedoms to others and end up having the > equivalent of a network computer that does not have an essence of its own > individuality.</span> Nonsense, Slashdot-style. -- Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE -= F1 is the key =- http://sl.mvps.org http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:39:19 -0700, Dan wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Windows 9x may be dead somewhat to Microsoft but it is alive and kicking > everywhere else with Mozilla still supporting it with their web browser as > well as AVG 7.5 supporting it as well. People do not realize how stable it > has become.</span> Just because some application vendor's products run on Windows 9x still does not mean they are supporting it. If a vulnerability is discovered in the OS, the app vendors are not about to provide a patch for it. Windows 9x is no more stable now than when it was originally released.<span style="color:blue"> > > Heck, 98 Second Edition for me is more stable than XP Professional. Vista > while it is stable enough for me still suffers somewhat with compatibility > issues. However, Vista is indeed tops with external security. However, > Windows 9x has the internal safety and less surface area to attack because it > does not have the services that XP has and XP likes to throw all the > information back compared to 98 Second Edition which is a lot quieter and > runs really well on older PC's.</span> Compared to Vista and XP, Windows 9x has almost no "internal security" which is a false term in the first place. <span style="color:blue"> > You talk about a great opportunity for all > those used computers that cannot run XP and why not have them run 98SE > instead of being tossed in the landfill. I am sure there are many people > around the world that would see having a computer as a great luxury. </span> Since the discussion is about security, the above has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. <span style="color:blue"> > > Thanks for replying though and I appreciate your views and I already know > about the end of life software date of July 11, 2006. BTW, did you know this > fact on the Microsoft 98 Second Edition page: > > http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1139</span> What "fact" are you referring to? If you're referring to the end of life date, that is well known and can be found on lots of pages on the Microsoft web site. <span style="color:blue"> > > It sounds like Microsoft does care for 98 Second Edition users like myself > who are looking into ways for the company to expand and explore new avenues > into the future of information technology. Microsoft is really great about > supporting their legacy users and I feel that Microsoft has a much better > track record of caring than say Apple who thinks their products are, oh so > great, that Apple can charge a huge premium for them when Apples are based > upon open source code anyway. </span> This makes no sense at all. <span style="color:blue"> > > You talk about how ironic that is. Furthermore, Bill Gates and Microsoft > are the bad guys in many people's eyes but that is simply not true because > Microsoft is gladly willing to help its users and Bill Gates is now working > to make the world a better place for people who have limited opportunities > and are starving and sick with Aids and Malaria through his Foundation.</span> Again completely irrelevant. <span style="color:blue"> > > So you see that Windows 9x is not truly dead. The reason being is that it > still has life in it and why do you think Microsoft has not sold the 9x > source code if it is useless. The great thing about 9x is that it is > compatibility with older software and games and uses MS-DOS as a maintenance > operating system compared to Vista. > I am using 98 Second Edition as I post back to you and it never seems to > have any issues anymore as long as you don't use too much ram. </span> Microsoft has not sold the source code because they don't sell source code. You can assign all the motives you want to this but the bottom line is that not selling the source code has nothing at all to do with whether or not Microsoft thinks it is useless or not. It is Microsoft's intellectual property and they simply don't sell it. MS DOS 4.0 was a piece of crap and the source code hasn't been sold. MS BOB was a piece of crap and the source code hasn't been sold. <span style="color:blue"> > > I use 512 megabytes of ram with it and editted the system.ini to recognize > less and have a 256 megabyte ATI video card. Nope, it is Windows XP Service > Pack 3 that is having the issues right now with people having trouble getting > updates for it without the proper patch to register the .dlls again. In > addition, Windows Vista has great external security but lacks the internal > safety of a 9x operating system.</span> Again, you have no idea what you're talking about here. You really need to expand your horizons beyond your pet MVP. His opinions are not well regarded in the security community. <span style="color:blue"> > > I use XP Professional in a dual-boot on the same machine on a seperate hard > drive. It is NTFS file system compared to the Fat32 file system of 98 Second > Edition. </span> So? <span style="color:blue"> > > The thing is when the APS domain was hacked into last summer (2007), the > hacker(s) got into the XP Professional side of my machine because the > external security of the network was destroyed. However, I was also using > VPN to link with the Intranet of the APS domain and 9x did not get hacked > because it has internal safety of a smaller surface area, no rpc, a true > maintenance operating system of MS-DOS, etc. So you can see how 9x machines > were meant to be stand alone. In this ever increasing digital age, I am > surprised that more home consumers do not rise up and demand another 9x > operating system to be able to be more stand-a-lone and not report in to > their boss and/or the government all of the time. Are people really that > willing to give up their precious freedoms to others and end up having the > equivalent of a network computer that does not have an essence of its own > individuality. > > It surprises that so many people do not see this and the coming danger of > willing to have just one easily hackable source code out there. You must > have a comprehensive internal safety and external security solution with > closed and open source technologies available from Microsoft and others to > make the best operating systems out there possible and to help mitigate any > incoming threats that may want to harm the Matrix FrameWork and Subsystems of > the Network.</span> Wow, you've really drunk the Chris Quirke kool-aid here and you really have no concept of what security is all about. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca If a train station is where the train stops, what is a work station? Quote
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 How collegial of you, Paul! Paul Adare - MVP wrote:<span style="color:blue"> > ...Again, you have no idea what you're talking about here. You really need > to > expand your horizons beyond your pet MVP. His opinions are not well > regarded in the security community.</span> <snip> Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:10:47 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > How collegial of you, Paul! > > Paul Adare - MVP wrote:<span style="color:green"> >> ...Again, you have no idea what you're talking about here. You really need >> to >> expand your horizons beyond your pet MVP. His opinions are not well >> regarded in the security community.</span> > <snip></span> The truth is what the truth is. You obviously have nothing at all to add to the conversation at hand, which coming from you is about par for the course. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca Nice computers don't go down. Quote
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Dan and I have had many fruitful discussions in the past. Paul Adare - MVP wrote:<span style="color:blue"> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:10:47 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: ><span style="color:green"> >> How collegial of you, Paul! >> >> Paul Adare - MVP wrote:<span style="color:darkred"> >>> ...Again, you have no idea what you're talking about here. You really >>> need >>> to >>> expand your horizons beyond your pet MVP. His opinions are not well >>> regarded in the security community.</span> >> <snip></span> > > The truth is what the truth is. You obviously have nothing at all to add > to > the conversation at hand, which coming from you is about par for the > course. </span> Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:32:35 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Dan and I have had many fruitful discussions in the past.</span> That doesn't surprise me. Have you got nothing better to do? I'm not going to waste my time with an off-topic discussion with you, even an on-topic discussion with you wouldn't be a very productive use of time. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca Transistor: A sibling, opposite of transbrother. Quote
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Buh-bye! Paul Adare - MVP wrote:<span style="color:blue"> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:32:35 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: > <span style="color:green"> >> Dan and I have had many fruitful discussions in the past.</span> > > That doesn't surprise me. > Have you got nothing better to do? I'm not going to waste my time with an > off-topic discussion with you, even an on-topic discussion with you > wouldn't be a very productive use of time.</span> Quote
Guest ~BD~ Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Paul - nipping in with a question! I notice that you are an MVP I notice that Robear Dyer is a MS MPV Does the MS make PA Bear 'special' in some way? Dave "Paul Adare - MVP" <pkadare@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ypc9xklb4sqk$.twvg0n5omxof$.dlg@40tude.net...<span style="color:blue"> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:32:35 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: ><span style="color:green"> >> Dan and I have had many fruitful discussions in the past.</span> > > That doesn't surprise me. > Have you got nothing better to do? I'm not going to waste my time with an > off-topic discussion with you, even an on-topic discussion with you > wouldn't be a very productive use of time. > > -- > Paul Adare > MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager > http://www.identit.ca > Transistor: A sibling, opposite of transbrother. > </span> Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:56:52 +0100, ~BD~ wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > I notice that you are an MVP > > I notice that Robear Dyer is a MS MPV > > Does the MS make PA Bear 'special' in some way?</span> Not at all. We're both Microsoft Valuable Professionals, just have different ways of indicating that. Doesn't really make either of us particularly special at all. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach. Those who cannot teach, HACK! Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 02:53:09 -0400, Paul Adare - MVP wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > We're both Microsoft Valuable Professionals</span> Sorry Microsoft Most Valuable Professionals. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca Thrashing is just virtual crashing. Quote
Guest ~BD~ Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Thanks for answering Paul. My question was rather 'tongue-in-cheek' - I should have added a style_emoticons/ or <wink> ! Maybe if you peruse this thread you'll have a better understanding! Re: POSSIBLE HACK...PLEASE, PLEASE HELP! (Nine threads below this one!) Dave PS your correction noted .......... 'Most' "Paul Adare - MVP" <pkadare@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1o6rdguugf8z9.gp6rzhyuy826$.dlg@40tude.net...<span style="color:blue"> > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:56:52 +0100, ~BD~ wrote: ><span style="color:green"> >> I notice that you are an MVP >> >> I notice that Robear Dyer is a MS MPV >> >> Does the MS make PA Bear 'special' in some way?</span> > > Not at all. We're both Microsoft Valuable Professionals, just have > different ways of indicating that. Doesn't really make either of us > particularly special at all. > > -- > Paul Adare > MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager > http://www.identit.ca > Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach. Those who cannot teach, > HACK! > </span> Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:08:19 +0100, ~BD~ wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Maybe if you peruse this thread you'll have a better understanding! > Re: POSSIBLE HACK...PLEASE, PLEASE HELP! (Nine threads below this one!)</span> I really have no desire to get involved in a discussion about Ahuma or any other forum. It doesn't belong here. If you and PA have a problem with each other then you should you take it out of here. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca This screen intentionally left blank. Quote
Guest ~BD~ Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 You are right, of course, Paul. (You appreciate that you are PA too!! <grin>) I had hoped you might have been able to respond to this item in that thread: "I wonder if you can tell me why it is that if I type www.Aumha.com into my browser address bar I'm whisked off to this URL - http://downloadprograms.biz/?rid=544620 " This is a technical question and should have a straight-forward answer. Dave "Paul Adare - MVP" <pkadare@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1ocj7u0qftf6w.18lypu7v0touz$.dlg@40tude.net...<span style="color:blue"> > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:08:19 +0100, ~BD~ wrote: ><span style="color:green"> >> Maybe if you peruse this thread you'll have a better understanding! >> Re: POSSIBLE HACK...PLEASE, PLEASE HELP! (Nine threads below this one!)</span> > > I really have no desire to get involved in a discussion about Ahuma or any > other forum. It doesn't belong here. If you and PA have a problem with each > other then you should you take it out of here. > > -- > Paul Adare > MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager > http://www.identit.ca > This screen intentionally left blank. > </span> Quote
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 <snipped> ~BD~ wrote:<span style="color:blue"> > You are right, of course, Paul. (You appreciate that you are PA > too!! <grin>) > I had hoped you might have been able to respond to this item in > that thread: > "I wonder if you can tell me why it is that if I type www.Aumha.com > into my browser address bar I'm whisked off to this URL - > http://downloadprograms.biz/?rid=544620 " > This is a technical question and should have a straight-forward > answer.</span> Sure - which means you could research it and discover how domain names and such work pretty easily using Google and other fine internet search engines - where I am sure you could find a wealth of useful information. Technical questions - when meant as technical questions - have answers you can learn the answer to from books/published works - and in the case of a technical 'Internet' question - searching for the answer on the Internet would be a fine place to start... First thing - whois on the web page in question: http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whoi...com&type=domain http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/resu...omain=Aumha.com Which gives you a link to: http://search.yahoo.com/search/dir?p=AUMHA.COM Which has a link to: http://www.castlecops.com/a5944-F_Secure_W...You_Google.html Which can be used to give you a timeframe for reference (Friday, 29 April 2005) although they have a site listed I know nothing about - makes me think "typo in the warning message." However - for those who can realize that - the search continues (unless you want to ask the non-technical question of why "negster22" on "Friday, 29 April 2005" typed "Ahumha.org" instead of "Aumha.org" in their posting as a warning to others?) Knowing that aumha.org is the site you are referring to here (in reference to you pointing to the following thread - the last (at this time) response by you asking the question you repeat in partial above): http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.p...95d6909031bbe63 I'll get you a whois result for that web page as well: http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whoi...org&type=domain http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/resu...omain=Aumha.org The answer may or may not be technical. My bet is very much against it being a technical answer that you would get if anyone cared to answer - and I fully believe you likely know that and are asking the question as nothing more than a rub. ;-) Many people own just the .net, .com or .org representation of a given web page. Either because they see no point in owning everything, doesn't feel like paying for all of the different names each year, etc. Personal choice. If you think of it as a name (which is what it is) - then it is completely different than any other and if someone makes a mistake with the name - that is their bad. If I call you Boater Dan - instead of Boater Dave - my bad. Now you may wish to argue that the site is an important resource and should have all the possible names someone could accidentally put in associated with it. However - that's not even realistic in my opinion. After all - the first link I came up with using your query (AUMHA.COM) had some person asking about a situation and typing the actual web page address incorrectly by one letter - should everyone purchase all the sites one letter off from theirs so this mistake means nothing? If I call you Boater Davie - is that the same person even? All that is different is the second (or last) name - same as aumha.org vs aumha.com... And by even more letters than the mistake made on the 3 year old posting I refer to. Perhaps you are just trying to point out that they should - because of what the site is supposed to represent - at least own all the domains (last names, if you will) that someone could use. Not realistic for a place being ran by an individual doing this because they desire to - not for profit - in my opinion. Consider the cost of getting all available domains... .com, ..net, .mobi, .org, .us, .us.com, .info, .tv, .cc, .bz, .biz, .co.uk, all come to mind, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. It could get quite expensive very quickly to own all those names. Here's a link to a list of top level domains... http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt Not as well kept up - but another with more information behind each: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Inter...p-level_domains The .org (which the aumha.org site obviously uses) is one of the original top-level domains. Read more about its original purpose and how that has been modified over the years here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.org Which can, specifically - lead you to this: ".org is one of the seven original "generic" Top Level Domains. It is currently the Internet's fifth-largest TLD, with over two million registrations worldwide. .org was originally intended as a "miscellaneous" TLD for organizations that weren't commercial entities, educational institutions, network providers, or governmental agencies. In recent years registration in .org has become open and unrestricted (it will stay that way under its new operator.)" You seem to be essentially asking why the top-level domain being different takes you to a site you did not expect to be taken to - and from your postings, one could easily surmise you expected to be take to the one with the .org top-level domain instead of where ever the .com top-level domain version takes you. The technical answer is easy: Boater Dave and Boater Erik are different people - as denoted by their different chosen 'surname' (if you will give the leeway that is a first and last name.) No different here where aumha.org is different than aumha.com - as denoted by their different top-level domain designation. If you wish to go deeper and less technical - the owner of aumha.org is not the owner of aumha.com. The owners of the two different sites have chosen to point their individual sites to different name servers as well as have different content. If you wish to specifically answer your question - you must ask the proper people. In this case, given your exact question wording and the information above, specifically... "I wonder if you can tell me why it is that if I type www.Aumha.com into my browser address bar I'm whisked off to this URL - http://downloadprograms.biz/?rid=544620 ?" along with : http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/resu...omain=Aumha.com The answer to your 'technical' query will come from asking domainadmin@navigationcatalyst.com - if they feel like answering why they pointed their given web page the way they have. After all - your query is, per the wording, about the aumha.com address - which they (navigationcatalyst.com) own and according to the whois - administer (decide what is done with it.) Ask yourself if you would ask the same gist of a question while looking through a telephone directory for a large city: "Why is it when you call the listing for "Dave Peterson", you get a different person answering the phone than when you call "Dave McCraw"?" ;-) -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Quote
Guest ~BD~ Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Shenan - Thank you for such a comprehensive and thought-provoking answer. I really do appreciate your guidance! When I googled ............. I ended up here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-...G=Google+Search The first result is www.minscape.com If I type that into my address bar, or follow the link, I get taken to exactly the same place as if I type in Aumha.com. Hmmmm! The fourth entry is Naive question about a URL - Malwarebytes Security Forums posted by me to determine alternate views. You may be interested to follow up on this. My only concern is that the bad guys don't win. I believe you feel the same way. Dave "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:OLJQw3$7IHA.3624@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue"> > <snipped></span> <snipped> Quote
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 ~BD~ wrote: <snipped><span style="color:blue"> > When I googled ............. I ended up here: > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-...G=Google+Search > > The first result is www.minscape.com If I type that into my > address bar, or follow the link, I get taken to exactly the same > place as if I type in Aumha.com. Hmmmm!</span> <snipped> The second link found in your given search (above) is more interesting to me... http://www.robtex.com/dns/aumha.com.html Really lays out more detail. Another link found shows that people have made this 'typo' for years... http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7813_102-0.htm...essageID=267140 ( 5/31/04 ) Also - this hosts file: http://hosts-file.net/hphosts-partial.asp Distributed by the owners of this page: http://hosts-file.net/ Includes aumha.com in their list (as well as www.aumha.com) and more information on that is something they do give: http://hosts-file.net/?s=aumha.com http://hosts-file.net/?s=www.aumha.com Those sites were added for a specific reason to that HOSTS file... "GRM - sites engaged in astroturfing otherwise known as grass roots marketing For full details on what constitues astroturfing, please see; http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Astroturfing" In any case - hopefull you can reason out that the owner of a site has no obligation to purchase/create every iteration of their site name - especially when it comes to .org sites in my humble opinion and also when it comes to top-level domain differentiation. I know many "Dave's" in my life outside these newsgroups. When I call them up, email them, go out with them - I'm pretty sure it is not you. ;-) Another example of a good site people could type in incorrectly and get to something they were not expecting... http://www.betanews.com/ http://www.betanews.org/ What does it all mean? People should be more careful. ;-) -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Quote
Guest ~BD~ Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 How can I answer all that? <wink> Here is a stab! http://www.weirdity.com/internet/eoti.html Dave "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:%23mZVGMB8IHA.3624@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue"> > ~BD~ wrote: > <snipped></span> Quote
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 <plonk yet another of BoaterDave's posting aliases> ~BD~ wrote:<span style="color:blue"> > Shenan - Thank you for such a comprehensive and thought-provoking answer. > I > really do appreciate your guidance! > > When I googled ............. I ended up here: > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-...G=Google+Search > > The first result is www.minscape.com If I type that into my address bar, > or follow the link, I get taken to exactly the same place as if I type in > Aumha.com. Hmmmm! > > The fourth entry is Naive question about a URL - Malwarebytes Security > Forums posted by me to determine alternate views. You may be interested to > follow up on this. > > My only concern is that the bad guys don't win. I believe you feel the > same > way. > > Dave > > "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:OLJQw3$7IHA.3624@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...<span style="color:green"> >> <snipped></span> > <snipped> </span> Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 28, 2008 Posted July 28, 2008 On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:31:02 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > <plonk yet another of BoaterDave's posting aliases></span> Announcing this accomplishes less than nothing. Apparently you've got nothing better to do than to announce to BD that it is time for him to change his From header again. As an "MS" MVP one would assume that you'd be smarter than that. Apparently not. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca If a program is useful, it must be changed. Quote
Guest Paul Adare - MVP Posted July 28, 2008 Posted July 28, 2008 On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:31:02 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > My only concern is that the bad guys don't win.</span> Then start educating yourself and try to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the who the bad guys are. Redirecting ahuma.com is not a sign of a bad guy. -- Paul Adare MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager http://www.identit.ca Every program is a part of some other program, and rarely fits. Quote
Guest Root Kit Posted July 28, 2008 Posted July 28, 2008 On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:07:59 -0400, Paul Adare - MVP <pkadare@gmail.com> wrote: <span style="color:blue"> >Then start educating yourself and try to have at least a rudimentary >knowledge of the who the bad guys are. Redirecting ahuma.com is not a sign >of a bad guy.</span> Dan? .... Where are you Dan? ... An MVP's knowledge is being questioned! - We can't have that, can we? Quote
Guest Dan Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Robear is a really good guy and I am disappointed that Microsoft hires MVP's like you Paul that do not live up to your name in helping the little people. I guess you are just interested in the big bucks from the cooperations. "Paul Adare - MVP" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:32:35 -0400, PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: > <span style="color:green"> > > Dan and I have had many fruitful discussions in the past.</span> > > That doesn't surprise me. > Have you got nothing better to do? I'm not going to waste my time with an > off-topic discussion with you, even an on-topic discussion with you > wouldn't be a very productive use of time. > > -- > Paul Adare > MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager > http://www.identit.ca > Transistor: A sibling, opposite of transbrother. > </span> Quote
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