Guest Jepoi Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Hi, I have this windows firewall problem started when I uninstalled the Onecare live. I also ran the OnecareCleanup. Previously I can't see the WF in the services, after some try in the registry I was able to see the WF running in the services but I can't turn it ON. Also when I try right click and properties in the services to run it manually I got an error " Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not correspond to a present device". And when I start manually another warning message "The WF/(ICS) service on Local Computer started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs." Pls help me to figure this out...I have AVG 8 internet security running. Thanks. Quote
Guest Malke Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 Jepoi wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Hi, > > I have this windows firewall problem started when I uninstalled the > Onecare live. I also ran the OnecareCleanup. Previously I can't see the WF > in the services, after some try in the registry I was able to see the WF > running in the services but I can't turn it ON. Also when I try right > click and properties in the services to run it manually I got an error " > Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not > correspond to a present device". And when I start manually another warning > message "The WF/(ICS) service on Local Computer started and then stopped. > Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services > or programs." Pls help me to figure this out...I have AVG 8 internet > security running. Thanks.</span> AVG Internet Security has its own firewall which disables the built-in Windows Firewall. Your system is working as designed. Malke -- MS-MVP Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic! FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 Thanks for the reply but how to activate the built-in windows firewall with out sacrificing my AVG? Or Can I just disable my AVG and activates my Windows firewall? "Malke" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Jepoi wrote: > <span style="color:green"> > > Hi, > > > > I have this windows firewall problem started when I uninstalled the > > Onecare live. I also ran the OnecareCleanup. Previously I can't see the WF > > in the services, after some try in the registry I was able to see the WF > > running in the services but I can't turn it ON. Also when I try right > > click and properties in the services to run it manually I got an error " > > Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not > > correspond to a present device". And when I start manually another warning > > message "The WF/(ICS) service on Local Computer started and then stopped. > > Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services > > or programs." Pls help me to figure this out...I have AVG 8 internet > > security running. Thanks.</span> > > AVG Internet Security has its own firewall which disables the built-in > Windows Firewall. Your system is working as designed. > > Malke > -- > MS-MVP > Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic! > FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ > > </span> Quote
Guest Snidley W. Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 Jepoi <Jepoi@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: <span style="color:blue"> >Thanks for the reply but how to activate the built-in windows firewall with >out sacrificing my AVG? Or Can I just disable my AVG and activates my Windows >firewall?</span> You can have one or the other but not both. If you want Windows Firewall, disable the AVG firewall. Quote
Guest Hank Arnold (MVP) Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 Jepoi wrote:<span style="color:blue"> > Thanks for the reply but how to activate the built-in windows firewall with > out sacrificing my AVG? Or Can I just disable my AVG and activates my Windows > firewall? > > "Malke" wrote: > <span style="color:green"> >> Jepoi wrote: >><span style="color:darkred"> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have this windows firewall problem started when I uninstalled the >>> Onecare live. I also ran the OnecareCleanup. Previously I can't see the WF >>> in the services, after some try in the registry I was able to see the WF >>> running in the services but I can't turn it ON. Also when I try right >>> click and properties in the services to run it manually I got an error " >>> Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not >>> correspond to a present device". And when I start manually another warning >>> message "The WF/(ICS) service on Local Computer started and then stopped. >>> Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services >>> or programs." Pls help me to figure this out...I have AVG 8 internet >>> security running. Thanks.</span> >> AVG Internet Security has its own firewall which disables the built-in >> Windows Firewall. Your system is working as designed. >> >> Malke >> -- >> MS-MVP >> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic! >> FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ >> >></span></span> Bad idea to run two firewalls. A the very least, it will impact performance noticeably. That's why most 3rd party firewalls will automatically disable the windows firewall... -- Regards, Hank Arnold Microsoft MVP Windows Server - Directory Services Quote
Guest Kayman Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:21:46 -0500, Hank Arnold (MVP) wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Jepoi wrote:<span style="color:green"> >> Thanks for the reply but how to activate the built-in windows firewall with >> out sacrificing my AVG? Or Can I just disable my AVG and activates my Windows >> firewall? >> >> "Malke" wrote: >> <span style="color:darkred"> >>> Jepoi wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I have this windows firewall problem started when I uninstalled the >>>> Onecare live. I also ran the OnecareCleanup. Previously I can't see the WF >>>> in the services, after some try in the registry I was able to see the WF >>>> running in the services but I can't turn it ON. Also when I try right >>>> click and properties in the services to run it manually I got an error " >>>> Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not >>>> correspond to a present device". And when I start manually another warning >>>> message "The WF/(ICS) service on Local Computer started and then stopped. >>>> Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services >>>> or programs." Pls help me to figure this out...I have AVG 8 internet >>>> security running. Thanks. >>> AVG Internet Security has its own firewall which disables the built-in >>> Windows Firewall. Your system is working as designed. >>> >>> Malke >>> -- >>> MS-MVP >>> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic! >>> FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ >>> >>></span></span> > > Bad idea to run two firewalls. A the very least, it will impact > performance noticeably. That's why most 3rd party firewalls will > automatically disable the windows firewall...</span> ....which is a shame, really; It should be the other way around! Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Thanks Hank but I confirmed that my AVG 8 doesn't have a Firewall installed. So therefore I have problem on my Windows firewall because I can't turn it ON, also when I tried to run sfc scannow it gave an error but it can't be repaired. When I click the WF w/ Advanced Security on Local computer under Administrative Tools it gaives me an error "Snap-in failed to load. Restart the WF service on the computer the you aremanaging: Errorcode 0x6D9." "Hank Arnold (MVP)" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Jepoi wrote:<span style="color:green"> > > Thanks for the reply but how to activate the built-in windows firewall with > > out sacrificing my AVG? Or Can I just disable my AVG and activates my Windows > > firewall? > > > > "Malke" wrote: > > <span style="color:darkred"> > >> Jepoi wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I have this windows firewall problem started when I uninstalled the > >>> Onecare live. I also ran the OnecareCleanup. Previously I can't see the WF > >>> in the services, after some try in the registry I was able to see the WF > >>> running in the services but I can't turn it ON. Also when I try right > >>> click and properties in the services to run it manually I got an error " > >>> Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not > >>> correspond to a present device". And when I start manually another warning > >>> message "The WF/(ICS) service on Local Computer started and then stopped. > >>> Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services > >>> or programs." Pls help me to figure this out...I have AVG 8 internet > >>> security running. Thanks. > >> AVG Internet Security has its own firewall which disables the built-in > >> Windows Firewall. Your system is working as designed. > >> > >> Malke > >> -- > >> MS-MVP > >> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic! > >> FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ > >> > >></span></span> > > Bad idea to run two firewalls. A the very least, it will impact > performance noticeably. That's why most 3rd party firewalls will > automatically disable the windows firewall... > > -- > > Regards, > Hank Arnold > Microsoft MVP > Windows Server - Directory Services > </span> Quote
Guest Doug Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Prodding about on AVG's website I am confused about AVG 8. I see: (a) AVG Anti-Virus £29.99 (style_emoticons/ AVG Anti-Virus plus Firewall £34.99 Quote
Guest Kayman Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:00:01 -0800, Jepoi wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Thanks Hank but I confirmed that my AVG 8 doesn't have a Firewall installed. > So therefore I have problem on my Windows firewall because I can't turn it > ON, also when I tried to run sfc scannow it gave an error but it can't be > repaired. When I click the WF w/ Advanced Security on Local computer under > Administrative Tools it gaives me an error "Snap-in failed to load. Restart > the WF service on the computer the you aremanaging: Errorcode 0x6D9."</span> 1.Google for: 0x6D9 2.Windows XP: How to turn on your firewall. http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/firewall/xp.mspx Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Thanks Doug, I visited AVG website and they stated that if you can't see a Firewall component in your AVG software installed that means you don't have firewall installed and your license number is not intended for firewall components. Also this problem happened when I uninstalled the Onecare Live, thus uninstalling Onecare removes some associated firewall files? And how to reinstall or repair Windows Firewall. I Google a lot but failed to get an answer, especially if you have error after sfc /scannow that can't be repaired, and I can't veiw the error too even I followed the commands. "Doug" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Prodding about on AVG's website I am confused about AVG 8. I see: > (a) AVG Anti-Virus £29.99 > (style_emoticons/ AVG Anti-Virus plus Firewall £34.99 > Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Thanks Kayman, I googled a lot but no to avail. I think I have corrupted files but don't know how to fix it. Any more thoughts? "Kayman" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:00:01 -0800, Jepoi wrote: > <span style="color:green"> > > Thanks Hank but I confirmed that my AVG 8 doesn't have a Firewall installed. > > So therefore I have problem on my Windows firewall because I can't turn it > > ON, also when I tried to run sfc scannow it gave an error but it can't be > > repaired. When I click the WF w/ Advanced Security on Local computer under > > Administrative Tools it gaives me an error "Snap-in failed to load. Restart > > the WF service on the computer the you aremanaging: Errorcode 0x6D9."</span> > > 1.Google for: 0x6D9 > > 2.Windows XP: How to turn on your firewall. > http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/firewall/xp.mspx > </span> Quote
Guest Kayman Posted November 19, 2008 Posted November 19, 2008 On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:46:09 -0800, Jepoi wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Thanks Kayman, I googled a lot but no to avail. I think I have corrupted > files but don't know how to fix it. Any more thoughts? </span> Okay, let's start anew. You stated: "...problem started when I uninstalled the Onecare live." Go to: Description of the Windows Installer CleanUp Utility http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290301 Removal instructions: Download the Microsoft Installer Clean Up utility file and save it on your desktop. Double click on executable file. The installation process will start. Follow the instructions accordingly. Once installation process is over, go to Start | All Programs | Run Windows Install Clean Up utility. This will launch the Windows Installer Clean Up utility dialog box. Under the Installed products list, check if OneCare is still present and if so remove accordingly. It wouldn't hurt to double-check and employing this utility as well: Revo Uninstaller http://www.revouninstaller.com/ You also stated: "I confirmed that my AVG 8 doesn't have a Firewall installed." Are you sure? The best to my knowledge, AVG strongly urges that you proceed with the Firewall Wizard once the first setup process is finished. If you did so accordingly than the AVG firewall is most probably enabled. Any post configuration may cause file corruption. If you prefer the Windows Firewall (which is a better choice IMO) you could try this: Disconnect from the net and disable AVG 8. Then try: To turn on Windows Firewall http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/e...cfa1c01033.mspx 1. Open Windows Firewall by clicking the Start button, clicking Control Panel, clicking Security, and then clicking Windows Firewall. 2. Click Turn Windows Firewall on or off. If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation. 3. Click On (recommended), and then click OK. If you want the firewall to block everything, including the programs selected on the Exceptions tab, select the Block all incoming connections check box. Go to your AVG 8 configuration panel and enable the application except the firewall. Not sure if this will work though. Alternatively remove AVG 8 from your operating system completely and utilize less bloated good-quality applications freely available. 1. AVG Remover http://www.avg.com/download-tools --or-- How to remove AVG Free Antivirus http://askabouttech.com/how-to-remove-avg-free-antivirus/ --or-- Revo Uninstaller http://www.revouninstaller.com/ 2.Reboot 3. Activate/turn on the Windows build-in Firewall 3. Activate the build-in WindowsDefender 4. Download Avira AntiVir® Personal - FREE Antivirus http://www.free-av.com/ (The free version won't scan your emails.) Why You Don't Need Your Anti-Virus Program to Scan Your E-Mail http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tutorials/...nning/index.htm Ensure your e-mail program is configured to display e-mail messages in 'Plain Text' only. You may wish to consider removing the 'AntiVir Nagscreen' http://www.elitekiller.com/files/disable_antivir_nag.htm Routinely practice Safe-Hex. http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html Hundreds Click on 'Click Here to Get Infected' Ad http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2132447,00.asp And ensure your e-mail program is configured to display e-mail messages in 'Plain Text' only. In addition download and utilize these applications frequently: Malwarebytes© Corporation - Anti-Malware http://www.malwarebytes.org/mbam/program/mbam-setup.exe SuperAntispyware - Free http://www.superantispyware.com/superantis...efreevspro.html Good luck style_emoticons/ Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 19, 2008 Posted November 19, 2008 Hi Kayman, I followed all your instructions and when AVG was uninstalled and system reboot, I ran the Windows Firewall and still get this message "The Windows Firewall service is not running", when I click the Update settings now it gives me an error "Windows firewall was unable to make the requested updates". Is there any patch up program for Windows Firewall? "Kayman" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:46:09 -0800, Jepoi wrote: > <span style="color:green"> > > Thanks Kayman, I googled a lot but no to avail. I think I have corrupted > > files but don't know how to fix it. Any more thoughts? </span> > > Okay, let's start anew. > > You stated: "...problem started when I uninstalled the Onecare > live." > > Go to: > Description of the Windows Installer CleanUp Utility > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290301 > > Removal instructions: > Download the Microsoft Installer Clean Up utility file and save it on your > desktop. > Double click on executable file. The installation process will start. > Follow the instructions accordingly. > Once installation process is over, go to Start | All Programs | Run Windows > Install Clean Up utility. > This will launch the Windows Installer Clean Up utility dialog box. > Under the Installed products list, check if OneCare is still present and if > so remove accordingly. > > It wouldn't hurt to double-check and employing this utility as well: > Revo Uninstaller > http://www.revouninstaller.com/ > > You also stated: "I confirmed that my AVG 8 doesn't have a Firewall > installed." > > Are you sure? The best to my knowledge, AVG strongly urges that you proceed > with the Firewall Wizard once the first setup process is finished. If you > did so accordingly than the AVG firewall is most probably enabled. Any post > configuration may cause file corruption. > > If you prefer the Windows Firewall (which is a better choice IMO) you could > try this: > > Disconnect from the net and disable AVG 8. > > Then try: > To turn on Windows Firewall > http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/e...cfa1c01033.mspx > 1. Open Windows Firewall by clicking the Start button, clicking Control > Panel, clicking Security, and then clicking Windows Firewall. > 2. Click Turn Windows Firewall on or off. If you are prompted for an > administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide > confirmation. > 3. Click On (recommended), and then click OK. > > If you want the firewall to block everything, including the programs > selected on the Exceptions tab, select the Block all incoming connections > check box. > > Go to your AVG 8 configuration panel and enable the application except the > firewall. Not sure if this will work though. > > Alternatively remove AVG 8 from your operating system completely and > utilize less bloated good-quality applications freely available. > > 1. AVG Remover > http://www.avg.com/download-tools > --or-- > How to remove AVG Free Antivirus > http://askabouttech.com/how-to-remove-avg-free-antivirus/ > --or-- > Revo Uninstaller > http://www.revouninstaller.com/ > > 2.Reboot > > 3. Activate/turn on the Windows build-in Firewall > > 3. Activate the build-in WindowsDefender > > 4. Download Avira AntiVir® Personal - FREE Antivirus > http://www.free-av.com/ > (The free version won't scan your emails.) > > Why You Don't Need Your Anti-Virus Program to Scan Your E-Mail > http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tutorials/...nning/index.htm > Ensure your e-mail program is configured to display e-mail messages in > 'Plain Text' only. > You may wish to consider removing the 'AntiVir Nagscreen' > http://www.elitekiller.com/files/disable_antivir_nag.htm > > Routinely practice Safe-Hex. > http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html > Hundreds Click on 'Click Here to Get Infected' Ad > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2132447,00.asp > And ensure your e-mail program is configured to display e-mail messages in > 'Plain Text' only. > > In addition download and utilize these applications frequently: > Malwarebytes© Corporation - Anti-Malware > http://www.malwarebytes.org/mbam/program/mbam-setup.exe > > SuperAntispyware - Free > http://www.superantispyware.com/superantis...efreevspro.html > > Good luck style_emoticons/ > </span> Quote
Guest Kayman Posted November 19, 2008 Posted November 19, 2008 On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:05:01 -0800, Jepoi wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Hi Kayman, I followed all your instructions and when AVG was uninstalled and > system reboot, I ran the Windows Firewall and still get this message "The > Windows Firewall service is not running", when I click the Update settings > now it gives me an error "Windows firewall was unable to make the requested > updates". Is there any patch up program for Windows Firewall?</span> The AVG wizard may have disabled the appropriate service. In 'Start Search' box type (or copy/paste): "services.msc" (w/out quotation marks) and click 'Enter'. Ensure Services that say Automatic are started. Once they are all running reboot. You may have to do this several times style_emoticons/ --and/or-- Some services do not start in Windows Vista http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996 --and/or-- How to reset Windows Firewall settings in Windows XP SP2 (should work on Vista as well) http://www.winxptutor.com/sp2/resetfw.htm Scan your os with Malwarebytes (link provided previously). Good luck style_emoticons/ Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Scan with Malwarebytes and removed all infections, but still my windows firewall is not in service. Double clicking or right clicking the Windows Firewal/Internet Connection Sharing service gives me a warning message "Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not correspond to a present device.". Also when I manually start it gives a message "The WF/ICS service on Local computer started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs."....Any thoughts? "Kayman" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:05:01 -0800, Jepoi wrote: > <span style="color:green"> > > Hi Kayman, I followed all your instructions and when AVG was uninstalled and > > system reboot, I ran the Windows Firewall and still get this message "The > > Windows Firewall service is not running", when I click the Update settings > > now it gives me an error "Windows firewall was unable to make the requested > > updates". Is there any patch up program for Windows Firewall?</span> > > The AVG wizard may have disabled the appropriate service. > In 'Start Search' box type (or copy/paste): "services.msc" (w/out quotation > marks) and click 'Enter'. Ensure Services that say Automatic are started. > Once they are all running reboot. You may have to do this several times style_emoticons/ > --and/or-- > Some services do not start in Windows Vista > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996 > --and/or-- > How to reset Windows Firewall settings in Windows XP SP2 > (should work on Vista as well) > http://www.winxptutor.com/sp2/resetfw.htm > > Scan your os with Malwarebytes (link provided previously). > > Good luck style_emoticons/ > </span> Quote
Guest Kayman Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:20:03 -0800, Jepoi wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Scan with Malwarebytes and removed all infections, but still my windows > firewall is not in service. Double clicking or right clicking the Windows > Firewal/Internet Connection Sharing service gives me a warning message > "Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not > correspond to a present device.". Also when I manually start it gives a > message "The WF/ICS service on Local > computer started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they > are not in use by other services or programs."....Any thoughts?</span> Apart from scanning with Malwarebytes did you try the other suggestions as well? In 'Start Search' box type (or copy/paste): "services.msc" (w/out quotation marks) and click 'Enter'. Ensure Services that say Automatic are started. Once they are all running reboot. You may have to do this several times style_emoticons/ --and/or-- Some services do not start in Windows Vista http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996 --and/or-- How to reset Windows Firewall settings in Windows XP SP2 (should work on Vista as well) http://www.winxptutor.com/sp2/resetfw.htm Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Yes I did too..but the status is stopped, and the startup is automatic. "Kayman" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:20:03 -0800, Jepoi wrote: > <span style="color:green"> > > Scan with Malwarebytes and removed all infections, but still my windows > > firewall is not in service. Double clicking or right clicking the Windows > > Firewal/Internet Connection Sharing service gives me a warning message > > "Configuration Manager: The specified device instance handle does not > > correspond to a present device.". Also when I manually start it gives a > > message "The WF/ICS service on Local > > computer started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they > > are not in use by other services or programs."....Any thoughts?</span> > > Apart from scanning with Malwarebytes did you try the other suggestions as > well? > In 'Start Search' box type (or copy/paste): "services.msc" (w/out quotation > marks) and click 'Enter'. Ensure Services that say Automatic are started. > Once they are all running reboot. You may have to do this several times style_emoticons/ > --and/or-- > Some services do not start in Windows Vista > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996 > --and/or-- > How to reset Windows Firewall settings in Windows XP SP2 > (should work on Vista as well) > http://www.winxptutor.com/sp2/resetfw.htm > </span> Quote
Guest Kayman Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:54:03 -0800, Jepoi wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Yes I did too..but the status is stopped...</span> ....under 'Service status:' click the 'Start' button. Reboot and check, as mentioned previously, you may have to do this a couple of times. <span style="color:blue"> > and the startup is automatic.</span> That's okay. Quote
Guest Jepoi Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Reboot a couple of times probably 10x, but no to avail...when I clicked the start button under services still encountered the same error as stated previously. "Kayman" wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:54:03 -0800, Jepoi wrote: > <span style="color:green"> > > Yes I did too..but the status is stopped...</span> > > ....under 'Service status:' click the 'Start' button. > > Reboot and check, as mentioned previously, you may have to do this a couple > of times. > <span style="color:green"> > > and the startup is automatic.</span> > > That's okay. > </span> Quote
Guest Kayman Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:24:00 -0800, Jepoi wrote: <span style="color:blue"> > Reboot a couple of times probably 10x, but no to avail...when I clicked the > start button under services still encountered the same error as stated > previously.</span> Sorry to hear that, Jepoi. I have a somehow think that AVG may not be uninstalled completely and the remnants of this application are the causing factor of your predicament. All I can suggest is to re-install AVG reboot, then uninstall/tweak again using the suggested method(s) as mentioned in my previous post of 19-Nov-08 8:25:48 AM and 21-Nov-08 3:06:16 PM. Other than that I've run out of ideas and have no other recourse for you. Good luck! Quote
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