abortions

[TooDrunkToFuck]

One thing I'm not clear on is whether or not legal abortions take place before or after a fetus has exhibited all 5 signs of life. If it happens before, then it's not neccessarily that far removed from jacking off or using a condom, morality-wise. If it happens afterward, then you are actually destroying a life.

 

 

Personally, I find abortion appalling, but I wouldn't want it outlawed since IMO that would do more harm than good. It would be like drugs; more harmful illegal than legal. Women would be dying in back alleys. Maybe greater funding/promotion to/of adoption programs would help.

[snafu]

I think it's entirely the woman's right. Ragrdless of the circumstance. It's never as simple as just have the baby and then give it up. That's going through 9 months of a child growing inside your belly. And if it's not even a question of wanting it? what if one absolutely could not support a child and had to give it up if they didn't want to. I think that to be pretty unfair. Then again I don't see a child having rights at less than 20 months after conception. 20 months being a general limit to when doctors will perform abortions unless the woman and/or baby are in danger. I just don't think a woman should be forced to go through it if she really absolutely does not want to.

 

20 months? I think your thinking weeks and are you God? Who the fuck made a limit?

After about six weeks, a brain pattern can be detected. The bitch has only 9 months to deal with it. I know that must be hard but were talking about KILLING A HUMAN BEING!!!

She'll live threw it and if she was raped I'm sure she'll need a shrink anyway.

 

What a cop out. "She's gotta carry it for nine months." blah blah blah.... selfish bitch!!

 

 

I think it's entirely the woman's right. Ragrdless of the circumstance.

 

And another thing. As a man I have every right to see my baby come to term too. So fuck you and your womens rights!!

[Sabella]

20 months? I think your thinking weeks and are you God?

 

Yes, I meant weeks. I'm an atheist so no, I don't belive I'm God thanks, and as for the rest, I can't argue your opinion against mine. I feel it's entirely the woman's right and you don't.

[Sabella]

I believe there are thousands of different reasons a woman might want to have an abortion. They can have opinions coming left and right and of course their families and the father of the child have an opinion, but when it comes down to it, she should have that right.

 

Nearly 90% of abortions are performed before 12 weeks, and over 95% done in the first 20 weeks. This means that most are done in the first trimester while a very low percentage that are done after roughly 5 months. As far as I know third term abortions are absolutely not performed unless there is serious danger to the baby and/or mother. Brain wave activity is apparent at about the 6th week but it is not fully developed. Fetal stage begins at roughly 8 weeks. Most abortions occur before the babies brain, and vital organs have come close fully developing, and the baby could not live outside of the womb until around the 25th-28th week of pregnancy. Which again, means most abortions would occur over a month prior to this time. I appologize if I offend, but I don't consider a child to be a life until around this point. I consider it to be a potential life. I wouldn't agree for any third trimester abortion unless it was for serious medical reasons, and late second is really pushing it.

 

I personally have no idea what I would do were I to get pregnant at this very moment in time. In all honesty, I would probably have the child. However, I still feel that I have the right to terminate the pregnancy if I so choose. As I believe every other woman should.

[eddo]

I believe there are thousands of different reasons a woman might want to have an abortion.

 

 

Believing that is just enabling the continuing murders of innocent lives. There are no where near that many reasons. In fact, there are just a few:

 

Danger to mother.

Birth Control.

not wanting to deal with "it".

 

I would be interested in hearing more "reasons" than those I listed.

[Sabella]

Believing that is just enabling the continuing murders of innocent lives. There are no where near that many reasons. In fact, there are just a few:

 

Danger to mother.

Birth Control.

not wanting to deal with "it".

 

I would be interested in hearing more "reasons" than those I listed.

 

Go to an abortion forum and ask the woman that have gone through it. I'm not talking about general, I'm talking about specific reasons women terminate pregnancies. All kinds of financial issues, medical issues, physical issues, emotional issues, the baby could have one of many physical or mental disabilities that one my terminate a pregnancy for, etc...

 

But again, you call it murdering innocent lives, I call it terminating potential lives.

 

 

Actually, this brings up an interesting question. Regardless of ones feelings on general abortion, how would any of you feel about terminating children with certain disabilities?

[snafu]

Go to an abortion forum and ask the woman that have gone through it. I'm not talking about general, I'm talking about specific reasons women terminate pregnancies. All kinds of financial issues, medical issues, physical issues, emotional issues, the baby could have one of many physical or mental disabilities that one my terminate a pregnancy for, etc...

 

What bunch of shit! Medical issues maybe.

Physical issues? Like what? No brain?

Your so selfish you would kill something becuase of financial problems? Emotional issues?

Adoption you idiot.

 

 

But again, you call it murdering innocent lives, I call it terminating potential lives.?

I hope you sit back and think what you wrote here. Explain to me what's the difference here.

 

Actually, this brings up an interesting question. Regardless of ones feelings on general abortion, how would any of you feel about terminating children with certain disabilities?

NO!

Do us all a favor and have them tubes tied of yours, would you?

[Sabella]

NO!

Do us all a favor and have them tubes tied of yours, would you?

 

Just because I believe in the woman's right to abort a child, doesn't mean I would myself thank you very much. I do want children in the future, and maybe some of my opinions will change after experiencing those joys, but my opinions still stand as it is.

 

And again, your opinion is your opinion, I'm not going to debate yours specifically as I can see you stand very strong where you at. Call me selfish, call me a horrible person, you would be very wrong. I put myself in other people's shoes. I said previously I probably would not have an abortion. In fact, I will change my statement to I would have the child as not only would I be ready, but I would be able to support it.

 

Though I have to address one thing. You think rape victims should have the baby if they were to get pregnant since heck, what was it, they would have to go through therapy anyway? I think that's the most insensitive piece of crap comment I've heard. The feelings and emotional damage someone goes through, especially since it can be someone you've trusted, I couldn't even begin to imagine having a child after that, because of it. You find a woman whose gone through that shit, look in her face and tell her that.

[smutt butt]

Just because I believe in the woman's right to abort a child, doesn't mean I would myself thank you very much. I do want children in the future, and maybe some of my opinions will change after experiencing those joys, but my opinions still stand as it is.

 

http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/

[snafu]

.

 

Though I have to address one thing. You think rape victims should have the baby if they were to get pregnant since heck, what was it, they would have to go through therapy anyway? I think that's the most insensitive piece of crap comment I've heard. The feelings and emotional damage someone goes through, especially since it can be someone you've trusted, I couldn't even begin to imagine having a child after that, because of it. You find a woman whose gone through that shit, look in her face and tell her that.

 

That was pretty insensitive of me. I'm sorry.

 

But at least I can apologize for what I

[Sabella]

That was pretty insensitive of me. I'm sorry.

 

But at least I can apologize for what I

[snafu]

Thank you. I apologize that I can't agree with you. I apologize if I offend or hurt anyone's feelings with my opinions, it's simply stating them on a debate forum. There would be no debate if everyone agreed on the issue. I apologize I can't magically change my mind. I'm not just some horrible person that hates children and that they should all die. I love children and wouldn't agree with anyone killing a child after birth, or as I said, even third trimester unless neccesary. However, I simply cannot say that I think someone should have a child if they strongly do not want to. And I can apologize for that. So yes, I'm sorry.

 

Don't apologize for your feelings. You didn't hurt mine. This is a debte forum. We just had a debate.

[Sabella]

http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/

 

Honestly, I didn't quite know what to say to that. However, my very, very good friend is much more opinionated than I am on the subject, and has had much more experience with those who oppose her. And so to quote her after telling her I didn't quite know what to say to someone who just posts a site:

 

"There is absolutely no argument in that at all, and that by reposting the same bullshit (fake) sites that he's just proving that there is no argument for his opinion whatsoever aside from his blatant ignorance and refusal to accept the rights and beliefs of other people, even if they affect him in no way at all."

 

This is a debate thread, not a post disturbing sites thread.

[Sabella]

Don't apologize for your feelings. You didn't hurt mine. This is a debte forum. We just had a debate.

 

I'm glad you feel that way. Not here to make enemies, just share my thoughts.

[TooDrunkToFuck]

I appologize if I offend, but I don't consider a child to be a life until around this point. I consider it to be a potential life.

 

 

You do realize that there is an official medical definition of when something is alive, right? There are 5 signs it must show. If it shows all 5, it's alive ... Whether you "consider" it to be or not has no bearing on that fact.

[Sabella]

You do realize that there is an official medical definition of when something is alive, right? There are 5 signs it must show. If it shows all 5, it's alive ... Whether you "consider" it to be or not has no bearing on that fact.

 

Usually part of the medical definition of alive contains something about all vital organs being fully functional and the like. A child has yet to have these until after 20 weeks. Close to the time in which I begin to agree that abortion shouldn't be an option unless mother or child are in danger.

[TooDrunkToFuck]

Actually, my memory was a bit off. There are 6 characteristics of life.

 

 

Theme #1 - Cells

 

All living things are composed of one or more cells. Different types of cells have different "jobs" within the organism. Each life form begins from one cell, which then will split. These cells split, and so on. After this has happened several times, differentiation is undergone, when the cells change so that they are not the same thing anymore. Then they are used to begin to put together the final organism, some cells, for example, as the eyes, some as the heart, etc. The only arguable exception to this is viruses. They are not composed of cells, but are said to be "living."

 

 

Theme#2 - Organization

 

 

Complex organization patterns are found in all living organisms. They arrange themselves on very small levels, grouping like things together. On larger levels, they become visible. This also has to do with differentiation, as the cells are organized in a manner that makes sense for the organism after they change to what they’ll be in the final organism.

 

 

Theme#3 - Energy Use

 

All organisms use energy. The sum of the chemical energy they use is called metabolism. This energy is used to carry out everything they do. Autotrophs (plants) use energy from the sun for photosynthesis, to make their own ‘food’ (glucose). Heterotrophs (animals and humans) must ingest food for this purpose.

 

 

Theme#4 - Homeostasis

 

All organisms have stable internal conditions which must be maintained in order to remain alive. These include temperature, water content, heartbeat, and other such things. In a way, this has to do with energy use, because a certain level of energy must be kept within the body at all times. For this, obviously, humans must then ingest food on a regular basis. Not all conditions are for the body to maintain itself; though most are.

 

 

Theme#5 - Growth

 

All organisms grow and change. Cells divide to form new, identical cells. Differentiation happens, as well, when cells mutate into other types of cells, making a more complex organism. Organisms growing, changing, and becoming more complex is called development. Single-celled organisms do grow as well, but they will only become slightly larger – this is nearly unmeasurable.

 

 

Theme#6 - Reproduction

 

All organisms reproduce in order to continue the species' life. This is combining genetic information (in sexual reproduction) or splitting into two organisms (in asexual reproduction) in order to create another of the same species. In sexual reproduction, the new organism will have some characteristics from the mother, and some from father. It may look like either of them, or it may not. In asexual reproduction, the new organism is an exact copy of the first. Sometimes, not every member of a species is able to reproduce. As long as others are (which we know they can, if they still exist today) then it does not threaten the species. (Except for mules, but don't worry about them, they are a bizarre anomoly.)

 

 

Once all of these (or in the case of reproduction, perhaps the beginning of the formation of the organs) are met, you have life in the medical definition. Although "life" and being "alive" aren't neccessarily the same thing ... But where did you get this thing about all vital organs being fully functional? I don't think I've heard that one before. AFAIK, people who require medical support to keep breathing are still considered alive.

[clarity]

medical discoveries are made and theories and definitions change ...

just because medically something is stated as not being alive does not necessarily mean it is not.

[angie]

medical discoveries are made and theories and definitions change ...

just because medically something is stated as not being alive does not necessarily mean it is not.

Yeah, what do those doctors know anyways??

[Phantom]

Children are sacred. PERIOD. Inside the womb, outside the womb. Unless the mother's life is in danger, I would like abortion to be avoided- even in rape cases. Adoption is always an option. Life is not always fair but don't make an innocent pay for the crime committed against you.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

I'm against abortion. I believe that there is a such thing as "responsibility" and people don

[kokorosenshi]

You're a fucking idiot, Kokothemonkey.

 

Did your parents have any children that lived?

 

 

 

wow, my post got pretty far, but before i read the most, let me just reply to the royal idiot

 

ok, obviously you think i think abortions are bad, geez if only you were able to read above a third grade level you would of known that i didnt give my opinion.

 

I declare thee, royal orleans, royal idiot

[kokorosenshi]

wow, you guys have some stong opinions, and that site was a bit graphic smutt butt. im still for abortions and i think it should be a womans choice. if she wants the baby, keep it. is she doesnt, well, would you like to be alive after knowing that not even your own mother wanted you.

 

as for raped victims, some get HIV or AIDS or some other STD, being born with a STD doesnt sound very plesent to me, then again, its up to the woman to keep or not to keep the baby.

 

for killing the innocent, severly insane people should get their tubes tide or a visectamy, just think of andrea yates and her best friend and you will understand what i am trying to say.

 

if you think its selfish for the woman to decide whether or not to keep the baby, think about this, whose going through changes and pain. the father and other people whether it be family or friends, have no say at all in getting rid of the baby, but they do have a say in keeping the baby and changing the womans mind, and besides, a guy that would raise a child is more responsible than a guy that is forced to raise a child.

[RoyalOrleans]

wow, my post got pretty far, but before i read the most, let me just reply to the royal idiot

 

Monkey see, monkey do.

 

ok, obviously you think i think abortions are bad, geez if only you were able to read above a third grade level you would of known that i didnt give my opinion.

 

Believe what you want, everyone knows that I can read at a fifth grade level.

 

I declare thee, royal orleans, royal idiot

 

I declare you, Koko the Monkey. Dance and juggle aborted fetuses in your hands.

[hugo]

Usually part of the medical definition of alive contains something about all vital organs being fully functional and the like. A child has yet to have these until after 20 weeks. Close to the time in which I begin to agree that abortion shouldn't be an option unless mother or child are in danger.

 

So someone with a mechanical heart is dead?