religion...a waste?

[Jhony5]

Some of these are kinda ify, but I promised Phanny some biblical errors. So heres 101 of them.

 

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

 

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

 

Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

 

Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

 

Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

 

Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

 

Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

 

Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

 

Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

 

After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

 

Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

11. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

 

One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

12. How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

 

Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

13. In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

 

Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

14. How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

 

Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

15. Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

 

Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

16. Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

 

Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

17. How many were the children of Zattu?

 

Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

18. How many were the children of Azgad?

 

One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

19. How many were the children of Adin?

 

Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

20. How many were the children of Hashum?

 

Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

21. How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

 

Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

22. Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

 

29,818 (Ezra)

31,089 (Nehemiah)

23. How many singers accompanied the assembly?

 

Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

24. What was the name of King Abijahs mother?

 

Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)

Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

25. Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

 

Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

No (Joshua 15:63)

26. Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

 

Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

Hell (Luke 3:23)

27. Jesus descended from which son of David?

 

Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

Nathan(Luke3:31)

28. Who was the father of Shealtiel?

 

Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)

Neri (Luke 3:27)

29. Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

 

Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)

Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

30. Who was the father of Uzziah?

 

Joram (Matthew 1:8)

Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

31. Who was the father of Jechoniah?

 

Josiah (Matthew 1:11)

Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

32. How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

 

Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)

But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

33. Who was the father of Shelah?

 

Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)

Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

34. Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

 

Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

No (John 1:19-21)

35. Would Jesus inherit Davids throne?

 

Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)

No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon Davids throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

36. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

 

One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.

Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.

37. How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

 

By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

38. Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

 

By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)

On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

39. When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus daughter already dead?

 

Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, My daughter has just died.

No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, My little daughter is at the point of death.

40. Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

 

Yes (Mark 6:8)

No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

41. Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

 

Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

No (Luke 9:9)

42. Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

 

Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)

No (John 1:32,33)

43. Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

 

Yes (John 1:32, 33)

No (Matthew 11:2)

44. According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

 

If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true (John 5:3 1)

Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true (John 8:14)

45. When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

 

Yes (Matthew 21:12)

No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17)

46. The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

 

Yes. (Matthew 21:19)

No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)

47. Did Judas kiss Jesus?

 

Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

48. What did Jesus say about Peters denial?

 

The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times (John 13:38)

Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times (Mark 14:30) . When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

49. Did Jesus bear his own cross?

 

Yes (John 19:17)

No (Matthew 27:31-32)

50. Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

 

Yes (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark lS:37-38)

No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit! And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

[Jhony5]

51-88................

 

 

51. Did Jesus say anything secretly?

 

No. I have said nothing secretly (John 18:20)

Yes. He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him Why do you speak to them in parables? He said, To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

52. Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

 

On the cross (Mark 15:23)

In Pilates court (John 19:14)

53. The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

 

Yes (Mark 15:32)

No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

54. Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

 

Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, Today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)

No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17)

55. When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?

 

Yes (Acts9:7)

No (Acts22:9)

56. When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?

 

Yes (Acts 26:14)

No (Acts 9:7)

57. Did the voice spell out on the spot what Pauls duties were to be?

 

Yes (Acts 26:16-18)

No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)

58. When the Israelites dwelt in Shittin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?

 

Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)

Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)

59. How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?

 

Seventy souls (Genesis 4 & 27)

Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)

60. What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?

 

He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)

He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)

61. How did Judas die?

 

After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

62. Why is the field called Field of Blood?

 

Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)

Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)

63. Who is a ransom for whom?

 

The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many (Mark 10:45). Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... (I Timothy 2:5-6)

The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright (Proverbs 21:18)

64. Is the law of Moses useful?

 

Yes. All scripture is... profitable... (2 Timothy 3:16)

No. . . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... (Hebrews 7:18)

65. What was the exact wording on the cross?

 

This is Jesus the King of the Jews (Matthew 27:37)

The King of the Jews (Mark 15:26)

This is the King of the Jews (Luke 23:38)

Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews (John 19:19)

66. Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

 

Yes (Matthew 14:5)

No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

67. Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

 

Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Lukes gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

68. Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collectors office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?

 

Matthew (Matthew 9:9)

Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

69. Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

 

After (Mark 14:12-17)

Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilates judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

70. Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

 

Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

No. (John 12:27)

71. In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did he move away from his disciples to pray?

 

Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)

One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)

72. Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?

 

Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)

Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)

73. What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

 

Certainly this man was innocent (Luke 23:47)

Truly this man was the Son of God (Mark 15:39)

74. When Jesus said My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? in what language did he speak?

 

Hebrew: the words are Eloi, Eloi ..(Matthew 27:46)

Aramaic: the words are Eloi, Eloi .. (Mark 15:34)

75. According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

 

Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit! (Luke 23:46)

"It is finished" (John 19:30)

76. When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?

 

Yes (Matthew 8:5)

No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)

77.

 

Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

78.

 

God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

79. Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?

 

No (John 3:13)

Yes. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11)

80. Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?

 

Abiathar (Mark 2:26)

Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)

81. Was Jesus body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

 

Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)

No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus) (Mark 16: 1)

82. When did the women buy the spices?

 

After the Sabbath was past (Mark 16:1)

Before the Sabbath. The women prepared spices and ointments. Then, on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

83. At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

 

Toward the dawn (Matthew 28: 1)

When the sun had risen (Mark 16:2)

84. What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

 

To anoint Jesus body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)

To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)

For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

85. A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?

 

They saw that the stone was Rolled back (Mark 16:4) They found the stone rolled away from the tomb (Luke 24:2) They saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (John 20:1)

As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

86. Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus body?

 

Yes. A young man in a white robe (Mark 16:5). Two men ... in dazzling apparel later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)

No. Mary met no one and returned saying, They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him (John 20:2)

87. When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

 

Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)

On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him Teacher. Jesus said to her, Do not hold me... (John 20:11 to 17)

88. What was Jesus instruction for his disciples?

 

Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me (Matthew 2 8: 10)

Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God (John 20:17)

[Jhony5]

89-101...............

 

89. When did the disciples return to Galilee?

 

Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee some doubted (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist

After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them during forty days (Acts 1:3), and charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... (Acts 1:4)

90. To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?

 

To the Ishmaelites (Genesis 37:28)

To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh (Genesis 37:36)

91. Who brought Joseph to Egypt?

 

The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then took Joseph to Egypt (Genesis 37:28)

The Midianites had sold him in Egypt (Genesis 37:36)

Joseph said to his brothers I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt (Genesis 45:4)

92. Does God change his mind?

 

Yes. The word of the Lord came to Samuel: I repent that I have made Saul King... (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

No. God will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent (I Samuel 15:29)

Yes. And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

 

i. The Lord was sorry that he made man (Genesis 6:6)

 

I am sorry that I have made them (Genesis 6:7)

 

ii. And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people (Exodus 32:14).

 

iii. (Lots of other such references).

 

93. The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the magicians did the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat:

 

Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21)

The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

94. Who killed Goliath?

 

David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)

Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)

95. Who killed Saul?

 

Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)

An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)

96. Does every man sin?

 

Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)

No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

97. Who will bear whose burden?

 

Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)

Each man will have to bear his own load (Galatians 6:5)

98. How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?

 

Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)

Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)

99. Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

 

After his baptism, the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days ... (Mark 1:12-13)

Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee - two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)

100. Was baby Jesus life threatened in Jerusalem?

 

Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 23)

No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)

101. When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?

 

They worshipped him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God (Matthew 14:33)

They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened (Mark 6:51-52)

[ClassyMissFancy]

True, but they believe these unexplained occurrences can only be answered through theoretical quantum physics. Or scientific guesswork for those of you who don't follow.

 

Um... no. We simply believe they can be explained through the forces of nature... and so are not "supernatural".

 

The presence of a spirit is wholly rejected by true secular atheist.

It is the defining of the psyche as a "spirit" that we reject. Not the presence of it.

Anything that is unexplainable by modern science is deemed by atheist as simply an occurrence that hasn't yet been accounted for by physics.

 

So far... the atheists have been correct. Shall I list all of the things once attributed to gods... that have since been explained and attributed to the natural world by science?

 

I will start with the weather....

 

This is what my understanding of Atheism is. I used too consider myself an Atheist because I thought that it was simply a term applied to one whom doesn't believe in God.

 

I am a non-smoker. (follow along.. I actually do have a point) Some of us non-smokers campaign against smoking and attempt to alienate smokers... some of us do not. That is not what defines us as non-smokers. Simply not smoking is all it takes.

 

If you do not believe in gods or deities then you are by default atheist as much as those of us who do not smoke are non-smokers.

 

Again... there is NO atheism. We are sans "ism".

[ClassyMissFancy]

Your incorrectly stating the parameters of a true secular Atheist. It is not that they do not believe in a God. It is that they believe there IS NO God or any other force that occurs outside of nature.

 

Please tell me what the difference is between the two bold underlined statememts.

 

I believe I stated that we believe all things have a natural explanation. How have I misstated anything?

 

BTW. You are guilty of playing a game of semantics with this terminology.

Atheism is the practice of an Atheist.

 

Please do tell me what the practice of an atheist is. I am an atheist and I would like to know what I practice that is part of an "ism".

 

Don't believe me? Go here>>> http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=81

 

Believe you? I don't need to believe you about what an atheist is any more than I need to believe you about what a woman is. I am one. I see you have found a message board where a bunch of people get together to discuss how they will spend their lives in battle against something they claim doesn't exist.

 

Paridoxical... Don'tcha think?

 

IMO... those people aren't atheists. They are simply pissed at their "gods" or churches or parents or who ever they feel has done them wrong.

 

There is no greater authority in the realm of ATHEISM. Look around a little and learn what the fuck it is that you think that you are.

 

OOO You used a wordy dirt. I'm all scared now.

 

There is no REALM of Atheists or athe"ism". Do THOSE people have an ISM.. YES.. they do. But their ISM has nothing to do with being Atheist and everything to do with beint Anti-theist. The two are not the same.

 

Atheist simply means Without god belief.

 

Anti-theist means AGAINST god belief.

 

I am Atheist.

[Jhony5]

Again... there is NO atheism. We are sans "ism".

 

Please explain why you have issue with this terminology?

 

The term atheism is very commonly accepted within the Atheist community.

 

http://www.positiveatheism.org

 

I'm not gettin your stance on this.

[ClassyMissFancy]

There is no "atheist community"

 

The only way "atheism" would be grammatically correct is if it was written like this...

 

"A-Theism" meaning "without theism."

 

The 'ism" implies religion and so the term "atheism" rules itself out... it's like saying "We are a religion without religion"

[ClassyMissFancy]

By "Atheist community" I do not mean there are no on-line atheist communities. Of course there are. I mean there are no REAL world atheist communities. We do not have atheist churches and atheist bylaws we must adhere to and an atheist manifesto.

[Jhony5]

Please tell me what the difference is between the two bold underlined statememts.

It is not that they do not believe in a God. It is that they believe there IS NO God or any other force that occurs outside of nature.

I probably could have worded that more carefully. Allow me to try again.

It is not that they do not believe in god....meaning to simply not believe in god doesn't suggest that you don't hold the possibility as plausible.

 

It is that they believe there is no God....meaning that one believes firmly that there is no God and that it is utterly implausible.

 

 

Me, I do not believe in a God/Gods. However I do believe in the plausibility of a God/Gods. Does that make more sense? I admit the wording was in need of better construction.

 

Please do tell me what the practice of an atheist is.

Honestly its hard to pin down. But whatever it is, its called ATHEISM.

 

see you have found a message board where a bunch of people get together to discuss how they will spend their lives in battle against something they claim doesn't exist.

That isn't "just some website" I googled up as a means of response to your post. I used to be a member of that website. IIDB is the collective Secular/Atheist movement in the United States. Thousands of members, some of whom donate thousands of dollars to the cause. Many of the members are renowned public speakers who are known in certain circles all around the world. College professors and the like. You should look around that website if you truly are an Atheist.

 

I am Atheist.

Yes I suppose you qualify as such, and your practicing Atheism right now. You're playing semantical games with this terminology.

 

It is the defining of the psyche as a "spirit" that we reject. Not the presence of it.

Very well put, and I'll concede that to you.

 

So far... the atheists have been correct. Shall I list all of the things once attributed to gods... that have since been explained and attributed to the natural world by science?

I too am of this thinking. The utter silliness of villagers long ago, running into their huts to hide from the bad weather. Not thought to be high/low pressure and other natural weather occurrences, but rather the work of an angry God.

 

It is not the rejection of the insistence of religion to explain such things by means of divine interaction, but rather the rejection of the possibility of supernatural forces causing such things as Black holes and the existence of dark matter and anti-matter.

 

For example, our weather is dictated by many things. Such as the moons gravitational effects with the Earth. We know that the moon is a rock comprised of innocuous minerals. Completely natural in the purview of science. However, perhaps the moon isn't just a rock. Maybe it was created and placed there in order to provide the necessary effects needed to support the desired environment on Earth by an unknown entity. This is the type of abstract thought I feel escapes the Atheist. I do not believe that this obscure moon reference is true. However I would not rule it out because I cannot prove this isn't true. Just the same I cannot prove there is no Santa Claus.

[Jhony5]

Atheism is the opposite of theism. As best I have understood it. One side attempts to show that there is a God. The other attempts to show there is NO God.

 

Quite simple really, although the interjection of the 'ism', as you mentioned, suggests religion. Which I too find odd. But thats what Atheist commonly refer to their belief system as. It is a belief system, even though its easy to say that its a non-belief system.

 

 

Mmmmkay , now my brain is stinging from the paradoxical volley of this-n-that we have going on here.

[ClassyMissFancy]

I probably could have worded that more carefully. Allow me to try again.

It is not that they do not believe in god....meaning to simply not believe in god doesn't suggest that you don't hold the possibility as plausible.

 

It is that they believe there is no God....meaning that one believes firmly that there is no God and that it is utterly implausible.

 

Not implausible so much as impossible, at least in the definition that I was raised to believe a god to be. Not only that... but many of us also believe a god to be unnecessary.

 

Anyone who does not believe god does exist... by default.. DOES believe there is no god. There either is or isn't a god. "Agnostic" is a cop-out. The term should be replaced with Apathetic. That would be more respectable.

 

 

Me, I do not believe in a God/Gods. However I do believe in the plausibility of a God/Gods. Does that make more sense? I admit the wording was in need of better construction.

 

You are.. and don't take this as an insult because it is an actual measurement.. by definition you are a "weak atheist". I am by definition a "strong atheist".

 

Honestly its hard to pin down. But whatever it is, its called ATHEISM.

 

I do understand the term is widely used even by atheists. I have a pet peeve with it. I grow tired of hearing other atheists complain that some theist has referred to "atheism as a religion!". So I tell them "Stop calling it a freaking ISM then!.. It isn't an ISM!... It's just a lack of freaking belief!! That's all!'". many atheists refuse to drop the "ism' because they think if they do then the believers have won. Isn't that just stupid?

 

That isn't "just some website" I googled up as a means of response to your post. I used to be a member of that website. IIDB is the collective Secular/Atheist movement in the United States. Tens of thousands of members, some of whom donate thousands of dollars to the cause. Many of the members are renowned public speakers who are known in certain circles all around the world. College professors and the like. You should look around that website if you truly are an Atheist.

 

I understand what it is. I also know that those people are moving nothing but their computer keys. Atheists make up less than 10% of the voting population in this nation and many of us don't vote. Many of us are conservatives even. (myself included) We would rather vote for a fundi who upholds our morals and protects our nation than an atheist who wants to make this a socialist nation. I voted for Bush... Twice.

 

Yes I suppose you qualify as such, and your practicing Atheism right now. You're playing semantical games with this terminology.

 

So if I argued semantics in a debate about politics would I still be practicing atheism? I argued semantics when I was a creationist as well. IMO the athe"ism" you speak of is probably more along the lines of picketing to have the nativity scene removed from the courthouse lawn. I don't do that shit and I don't agree with it. This nation is a democracy and so long as we are in the minority, we will just have to deal with it. It's not worth sacrificing the "majority rule" that we work for... for the sake of a statue on a lawn.

 

Ever notice that those practicing athe"ism" never protest against Islamic icons?

 

Very well put, and I'll concede that to you.

 

 

It is not the rejection of the insistence of religion to explain such things by means of divine interaction, but rather the rejection of the possibility of supernatural forces causing such things as Black holes and the existence of dark matter and anti-matter.

 

At this point, Black holes are theory. Before we are to figure out what causes them we must first deduce that they actually exist. But science is ahead of itself with this one because they didn't discover black holes and then attempt to figure out how they come about. They studied stars and theorized what would likely be left when a star burns out... and what they came up with is a Black Hole...

 

"Now imagine an object with such an enormous concentration of mass in such a small radius that its escape velocity was greater than the velocity of light. Then, since nothing can go faster than light, nothing can escape the object's gravitational field. Even a beam of light would be pulled back by gravity and would be unable to escape.

 

The idea of a mass concentration so dense that even light would be trapped goes all the way back to Laplace in the 18th century. Almost immediately after Einstein developed general relativity, Karl Schwarzschild discovered a mathematical solution to the equations of the theory that described such an object. It was only much later, with the work of such people as Oppenheimer, Volkoff, and Snyder in the 1930's, that people thought seriously about the possibility that such objects might actually exist in the Universe. (Yes, this is the same Oppenheimer who ran the Manhattan Project.) These researchers showed that when a sufficiently massive star runs out of fuel, it is unable to support itself against its own gravitational pull, and it should collapse into a black hole. "

 

 

So... if it is real... and we don't know that it is... but if it is... then scientists are on top of it.

 

 

 

For example, our weather is dictated by many things. Such as the moons gravitational effects with the Earth. We know that the moon in a rock comprised of innocuous minerals. Completely natural in the purview of science. However, perhaps the moon isn't just a rock. Maybe it was created and placed there in order to provide the necessary effects needed to support the desired environment on Earth by an unknown entity. This is the type of abstract thought I feel escapes the Atheist. I do not believe that this obscure moon reference is true. However I would not rule it out because I cannot prove this isn't true. Just the same I cannot prove there is no Santa Claus.

 

That kind of abstract thought does not escape us. That kind of abstract thought is what is left when all other avenues have been explored to their fullest. That is the difference. Theists go to the most abstract and unnatural as their FIRST answer to every "unknown", atheists start with the most likely to have occurred within the confines of nature.. and work our way out from there. To date we have never run across anything that we could not eventually explain through natural events and occurrences. That is not to say we never will... But chances are... if we study something for 100 years and do not find a natural cause.. we will continue to study it for 100 more or however long it takes until we do find a natural cause… because we do believe the natural cause exists.

 

It is this very type of nature-based science that has provided us with all we know to be scientific fact about the earth, animals, our bodies, and the universe around us.

 

 

Once we find a natural cause, there is no need to attribute things to the supernatural. That is, if we see that all planets have moons... and we see that comets and asteroids also have moon-like fragments around them... and we see that the earth is extremely pitted from being pelted with meteorites and asteroids over the years... and we know that the earth has a gravitational pull... from that we can deduce what the moon is, where it came from, and why it hangs out where it does. And because it is all based on observable occurrences, it is valid scientific theory... not assumption or "faith"-based.

 

Occam’s Razor... the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions and be as uncomplicated as possible.

 

To assume "A supernatural force that has always existed and was created by nothing did it on purpose as part of a great plan for all of mankind..." is a pretty large and complicated freaking assumption... which by better definition is an astounding leap in logic.

[ClassyMissFancy]

Atheism is the opposite of theism. As best I have understood it. One side attempts to show that there is a God. The other attempts to show there is NO God.

 

No.. it is factually imposible to show that anything does not exist.

 

Atheists got that reputation because so many of history's great scientists were atheist. As they proved natural causes for things people had always attributed to their gods... they were accused of being out to disprove the existence of god.

 

It's like... if we were alone on an island and I said there is no food... and then you found food and brought me some... ..

 

And I reacted by saying "The only reason you found food is because you are trying to prove me wrong!!!!"

 

Quite simple really, although the interjection of the 'ism', as you mentioned, suggests religion. Which I too find odd. But thats what Atheist commonly refer to their belief system as. It is a belief system, even though its easy to say that its a non-belief system.

 

There is no belief "system" or even non-belief "system"...

 

A system is a set of principles on which something is based... like a religious belief system may mean someone bows to Mecca 5 times a day, washed their face before blowing their selves up, etc. Atheists don't have a system. There is NOTHING we do and no moral we hold specificly as atheists that we would not do if we were say... methodists.

 

My brain is yawning.

 

ew.. that's an ugly image.

[Jhony5]

"Agnostic" is a cop-out. The term should be replaced with Apathetic.

I would choose the term "open minded". Which is what I said that started you off on a rant. That I feel Atheist are close minded jackasses. Perhaps I was wrong.

 

You are.. and don't take this as an insult because it is an actual measurement.. by definition you are a "weak atheist". I am by definition a "strong atheist".

This is why I'm so against labeling people. However its hard to avoid.

 

many atheists refuse to drop the "ism' because they think if they do then the believers have won. Isn't that just stupid?

Stupid is as stupid ism.

 

Hahahahha...ohhh I made a funny.

 

I understand what it is. I also know that those people are moving nothing but their computer keys. Atheists make up less than 10% of the voting population in this nation and many of us don't vote. Many of us are conservatives even. (myself included) We would rather vote for a fundi who upholds our morals and protects our nation than an atheist who wants to make this a socialist nation. I voted for Bush... Twice.

It is proper to separate religion and politics even when voting for a religious politician.

 

Ever notice that those practicing athe"ism" never protest against Islamic icons?

I have and I can't decide if its because of Islams anti-Christian stance or the lack of Islam having a power structure in America.

 

 

 

That kind of abstract thought does not escape us. That kind of abstract thought is what is left when all other avenues have been explored to their fullest. That is the difference. Theists go to the most abstract and unnatural as their FIRST answer to every "unknown", atheists start with the most likely to have occurred within the confines of nature.. and work our way out from there.

So far most of what you've said jives with what my own feelings toward unexplainable phenomenon are. I am one whom leans toward theoretical science over supernatural/divine explanations for the unexplainable. However I would never rule out any theory toward an unproven occurrence.

 

Take ghosts for example. I don't believe in ghosts. I have never seen one. No one can prove they exist. However I hold open the possibility that they do exist. I would never say they exist. I would never say that they don't. Thats not a "cop-out". Its just open-minded.

[eddo]

When studying and comparing different books of the Bible (like the many accounts of the 4 Gospels that you list in your common list of "errors" J5) it is important to look at who worte each of the books.

 

For instance: Mark wrote Mark. Luke wrote Luke. John wrote John. Different people. Different viewpoints. Yes, God inspired them, but each added their uniquie view of what they were writing. Thus, these are more likely differing points of view as opposed to actual errors.

 

Example:

26. Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

Heli (Luke 3:23) (fixed the name)

 

Matthew was a tax collector. Very detailed in his record keeping. He would list the "official" father of Joseph- Jacob.

Luke, however, was a doctor, and the books he wrote go farther to recognize the women and their actions of the day. He recognized Mary's father, Heli, as the lineage of Jesus. (This would be Josephs "Father-in-law,")

 

Not an error, just two differnt people giving their unique views of the same event.

 

 

Say you and I get called into the police station to give testimony about an robbery that we witnessed last Tuesday. If we both give the exact same word for word speech to two different officers, they are going to we practiced it, compared it, rigged it, etc, and are hiding something.

But, if me being a mechanic makes me notice more about the getaway car, and you being (an example as I have no idea what you do) a clothing designer makes you notice more about the suspects descriptions and we both intertwine our unique viuewpoints into what we tell the cops- then it is apparent that what we saw really happened.

[Phantom]

Though this belief is not unanimous, it is generally accepted among scholars that Matthew records the genealogy of Joseph while Luke records the genealogy of Mary. Jacob is believed to be the biological father of Joseph while Heli is believed to be the father of Mary and the father-in-law of Joseph. If Heli only fathered the two daughters mentioned in the New Testament it is possible Joseph, the son-in-law, would be mentioned as his son in order to preserve the family name and inheritance.

[eddo]

Though this belief is not unanimous, it is generally accepted among scholars that Matthew records the genealogy of Joseph while Luke records the genealogy of Mary. Jacob is believed to be the biological father of Joseph while Heli is believed to be the father of Mary and the father-in-law of Joseph. If Heli only fathered the two daughters mentioned in the New Testament it is possible Joseph, the son-in-law, would be mentioned as his son in order to preserve the family name and inheritance.

Isn't that what I just said????

 

[Phantom]

Yes it was but I was adding to your comment- not refuting it. CONFIRMATION!!

[ClassyMissFancy]

I would choose the term "open minded". Which is what I said that started you off on a rant. That I feel Atheist are close minded jackasses. Perhaps I was wrong.

 

Agnostics are not open minded. The unwillingness to even form a fucking opinion on something does not indicate an open mind. it indicates either apathy or cowardice.

 

You don't "feel" that anteists are closed minded Jackasses. That would require a malfunctioning sixth sense. You "THINK" atheists are closed minded Jackasses... and yes... you would be wrong.

 

Perhaps you haven't a clue what you are talking about and should stick to subjects about which you know something.

 

This is why I'm so against labeling people.

 

Which is why you have no problem labeling atheists "Jackasses".

 

Stupid is as stupid ism.

 

Hahahahha...ohhh I made a funny.

 

No... you didn't.

 

I have and I can't decide if its because of Islams anti-Christian stance or the lack of Islam having a power structure in America.

 

Islam is no more anti-christian than christianity is anti-islam. All god-worshiping religions are anti-every other religion, belief, or lack their of. They all think they are somehow special to the sky-fairy and everyone else is lesser loved by the all mighty invisible friend.

 

I am one whom leans toward theoretical science over supernatural/divine explanations for the unexplainable. However I would never rule out any theory toward an unproven occurrence.

 

Really? So then it is safe to assume you think it is just as likely that a supernatural unicorn shit everything into existence... as it is to assume a god created anything? They are equally unproven.

 

Theories are based on observable occurances. We can observe evolution taking place around us all day, every day. We can not observe human beings being created out of dirt by supernatural creatures. "God" isn't a theory.. it is a guess.

 

Take ghosts for example. I don't believe in ghosts. I have never seen one. No one can prove they exist. However I hold open the possibility that they do exist. I would never say they exist. I would never say that they don't. Thats not a "cop-out". Its just open-minded.

 

You said you don't believe in ghosts. You have therefore formed an opinion that ghosts do not exist but you are leaving open the possiblity that you may be wrong. That is not agnosticism. Agnosticism does not allow for the forming of an opinion. That is a cop-out.

 

 

All of us who ever form opinions on ANYTHING at all.... regardless of whether or not we claim that we have accepted something as fact or just think it is the most likely scenario... are saddled with the possibility that we may be wrong. Agnostics are the ones who refuse to form an opinion.

[ClassyMissFancy]

And it really doesn't matter who was the father of Joseph... because Joseph wasn't suipposed to be the father of Jesus. God was supposed to be his father....

 

Which means Jesus was not a decendent of the house of David... which means he wasn't the Messiah whose coming was foretold in the OT.

[rizzo]

Agnostics do have an opinion. They believe that the existence of God can be neither proven, nor disproven. They are not fence sitters, or wonder if God is real or not. The belief is simple, you can't prove there is no God, and you can't prove there is. That's not apathy or cowardice.

[builder]

Agnostics do have an opinion. They believe that the existence of God can be neither proven, nor disproven. They are not fence sitters, or wonder if God is real or not. The belief is simple, you can't prove there is no God, and you can't prove there is. That's not apathy or cowardice.

 

Bravo!! Not a truer word spoken in this thread.

 

[ClassyMissFancy]

Agnostics do have an opinion. They believe that the existence of God can be neither proven, nor disproven. They are not fence sitters, or wonder if God is real or not. The belief is simple, you can't prove there is no God, and you can't prove there is. That's not apathy or cowardice.

 

The question of one's opinion as to whether or not god exists is not about "Do you believe we can prove it or disprove it?"

 

The question is "Do you.... or do you not... believe a god exists?" Proof never comes into the equation... only one's personal opinion.

 

Belief does not require proof. Opinions do not require proof. Knowledge does. No one asked for anyone's knowledge. All that is asked for is an opinion.

 

Agnostics are either too apathetic or cowardly to form an opinion on it. Apathy I can respect. In fact.... I am apathetic to a great many things.

 

Cowardice I can not respect.

[ClassyMissFancy]

Bravo!! You agree with me so you must be correct!! YAY!!!.

 

 

 

^^^^^Edited for accuracy^^^^^

[RoyalOrleans]

Belief does not require proof. Opinions do not require proof. Knowledge does. No one asked for anyone's knowledge. All that is asked for is an opinion.

 

Exactly.

 

I have said, multiple times, ClassyMissFancy is an insufferable bitch, however that is my belief though a few may agree.

[phreakwars]

^ I agree with the above post.

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