Justifiable Divorce.

[Phantom]

With the current divorce rate being disgracefully high, what do you think constitutes as a justifiable divorce?

 

THE DEADLY SINS OF MARITAL BLISS. Divorce should be permitted only in the case of adultery, domestic abuse, child abuse/molestation, substance abuse, etc.

 

Argument: This is the only reason a couple should divorce. Other than that, a commitment was made for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health.

WHEN BOTH PARTNERS WANT OUT. The man and woman still respect each other but agree to call it quits.

 

Argument: If both partners want out then it is a case of no harm, no foul.

 

CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED. If the married couple are parents they need to keep it together for the kids.

 

Argument: Unless the deadly sins of marriage are committed, the husband and wife owe it to their children to provide a stable environment.

 

ONLY ONE SPOUSE WANTS OUT. One partner is ready to move on while the other partner is still very much in love, is putting forth the effort to make things worth, and depends on their spouse.

 

Argument: The partner who wants to end the relationship made a vow. It is no longer about their desires but the promise they made to their partner.

[eddo]

IMO, THE DEADLY SINS OF MARITAL BLISS is the only viable reason for breaking the marriage contract.

 

Of course, I am single and never been married, so my opinoin probably counts for less than those that are married.

[Phantom]

IMO, THE DEADLY SINS OF MARITAL BLISS is the only viable reason for breaking the marriage contract.

 

Although I prefer to think of marriage as a sacred commitment (not a contract), I am the same way. Unless the deadly sins are committed, suck it up- you made a vow.

 

Of course, I am single and never been married, so my opinion probably counts for less than those that are married.

 

Absolutely not. Sometimes long-term bachelors and bachelorettes are what they are because of their high standards and refusal to compromise for the sake of social norms and acceptance. Besides, I have said on numerous occasions I would snatch you up in a heartbeat if I was single!

[angie]

Well-it depends. If my fiancee hadn't gotten divorced from his ex, well, my life would be very different, and I like having him, and our daughter, in my life-I can't imagine life without them.

None of the 'deadly sins' were committed in their marriage. What it came down to was getting married too young (he was 22 and she was 20 or 21). High school sweethearts, they grew up, changed, and grew apart. So it worked out well for me.

For me, however, divorce isn't an option. He isn't abusive and never will be (I've known enough abusers in my life to know the signs). He doesn't drink (dad was an alcoholic so he rarely drinks, and it's even more rare that he gets drunk).

As for cheating-I don't see either of us doing it, ever, simply because we respect each other too much. However, was he to cheat, it would depend. One night stand? I could work through that. Long, drawn out affair, where he was emotionally involved? Then I would probably leave.

In the end, even though we haven't taken our marriage vows officially, we've already made the commitment to each other, and we take it very seriously. When I go out (he's a home body most of the time, and if he goes out, it's with me-by choice not because he isn't 'allowed' to go out) I don't do anything I wouldn't do in front of him. We've got a good thing going and I don't ever want to do anything to screw that up. Too many people don't take their commitments seriously enough, think only of themselves, and ruin their marriages.

[Phantom]

None of the 'deadly sins' were committed in their marriage. What it came down to was getting married too young (he was 22 and she was 20 or 21). High school sweethearts, they grew up, changed, and grew apart.

 

No offense but whenever someone tells me their divorce was due to "drifting apart," I just cringe. If a married couple is "drifting apart" then perhaps they could put more of an effort into reconnecting with their spouse. ESPECIALLY when kids are involved. Just my two cents.

 

However, was he to cheat, it would depend. One night stand? I could work through that. Long, drawn out affair, where he was emotionally involved? Then I would probably leave.

 

I disagree but there are many others who share your opinion. Though a long-term affair would certainly be more painful, the trust would still be broken. Like you, I can't see my husband ever cheating and I know I never would.

 

Too many people don't take their commitments seriously enough, think only of themselves, and ruin their marriages.

 

Amen. I want to beat the shit out of these selfish people... moreso when children are involved.

[angie]

No offense but whenever someone tells me their divorce was due to "drifting apart," I just cringe. If a married couple is "drifting apart" then perhaps they could put more of an effort into reconnecting with their spouse. ESPECIALLY when kids are involved. Just my two cents.

 

They didn't have any children (she can't have kids) and I know that was a bit of a problem for them (more on her end, she turned into a miserable twat). But from what I have heard from his friends she was a boring psychotic bitch anyhow, and he is better off without her-again, his friends' words, not mine. They didn't like her, and have not had problems telling me so. Several of his longtime friends have told me stories about her, and told me how surprised they were when they met me, because I am her polar opposite, apparently. Not to mention she is one of the ugliest bitches I have EVER seen.

 

 

 

I disagree but there are many others who share your opinion. Though a long-term affair would certainly be more painful, the trust would still be broken. Like you, I can't see my husband ever cheating and I know I never would.

I don't know that I would definitely be able to work things out after a one night stand, but in that situation, I would at least make the effort. It would be the long affair I wouldn't even bother with because I couldn't handle him developing feelings for someone else. And I know I won't ever cheat on him. I can look at a guy and say "yea he's hot" but the desire isn't there. One tracked mind now.

 

 

 

Amen. I want to beat the shit out of these selfish people... moreso when children are involved.

Yep. People are too goddamn lazy and self-centered to deal with the ups and downs of a relationship. Apparently divorce is easier.

[phreakwars]

I agree, why divorce the bitch for fucking with your marriage ?? Kill the bitch instead. God would want it that way.

.

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[Jhony5]

After five years the reason for my divorce was that me and my wife didn't have anything in common anymore. I fought the divorce tooth and nail for over 2 years. In the end I have to admit, she was right. When we first met I was only 23, she was 19. We did have a lot in common then. Young irresponsible horny kids often times do. After two years together all was good, we got married. 4 months later we got pregnant, a planned pregnancy.

 

Thats when the trouble started.

 

When my daughter hit the age of 1 1/2 years I used my spotless credit to buy a brand new home in a nice neighborhood in rural Indiana. Everything was great and I remember standing outside my new home one night having a smoke and thinking about how far I had come. A new homeowner, beautiful wife and daughter. The feeling of self-pride was nearly overwhelming. Four months later I came home from work to an empty house. My family gone. My dog gone. Even the god dam toilet seat! Why the toilet seat?

 

Anyway, all she had to say about it was we didn't have anything in common anymore. Alas, she has proven herself right in the years since. Life has been unusually cruel to her by way of her bad choices.

 

I don't see divorce as anything terrible, unless it involves children.

 

As long as I live I will NEVER forget the way my 2 year old daughter acted the first time she came to my home after her mom took her. She went straight back to the doorway of her bedroom and stopped, stood there for about five seconds and asked "Wheres my stuff" in the best way a 2 year old could manage. Even though I didn't make the decision to split my family, I have always felt guilty about it.

 

I remember my EX always saying its best to do it now while shes only two, that way as she gets older she'll be used to it.

 

My daughter is 7 now and I'm understanding they never "Get used to it".

[Vortex]

My take on this (for those that can actually legally get married) is quite simple...

 

#1) use a condom...every time....The "I got married for our child" is a very irrisponsible excuse...yes it mistakes DO happen, and getting married for the sake of the child sounds reasonable and reponsible......but if the parents arent a good enough match then the child gets hurt in the long run...so dont think that a childs best intrest is to have 2 parents in an undesireable marriage...they will do just fine with 2 sensible adults with joint equal custody...and the fact that they can act like the adults they are and be civil with eachother KNOWING that the child is their number 1 priority!

 

#2)Dont Settle for less than your minimum.......People are so quick to get married that they do it before they are even 23 years old, or better yet...ready. Calm down peeps, the rock on your finger, or the little woman to get your laundry clean (yes im speaking in sterotypes)....it isnt something to rush into!

 

#3) If you met someone, dated them, married them...etc....and you KNEW well in advance what their job, hobbies, quirks, and faults were and think you will change them after you are married.....you more than likely are wrong...If you cant live with the others "faults" (faults as in your eyes) and trying to "change" them will only cause resentment...so erase that from your memory...

 

#4) Gold digging....If you want someone to provide so you dont have to work or can have the "finer things in life"...then guess what...your time together will probably be limited...and even on a schedule. People who are very successfull and make a lot of money tend to have FAR less free time on their hands......and work ALL THE TIME...So expecting them to be with you ALL the time (even their free time)...will cause strain

 

#5) The "other"....so you were the other woman/man....what the hell makes you think things will actually change once you are married.....a cheater is always a cheater.....give that one up! (sure sleep with them if you must....but dont expect fidelity)

 

In this evenings conclusion....ill reapeat #1)

 

WEAR A CONDOM!!! Kids a are a HUGE responsibility ( i dont have to tell many people on here of that)...but to create one in a drunken stupor...then bitch because you married the other parent and live your life miserably just seems like a stupid excuse to have gotten laid one night. Granted EVERY parent i know (no matter how good or bad the situation is with the 2 parents) tells me its the best thing that happend to them...

 

but to get married for ANY of the above reasons is quite silly and stupid(unfortunately people who are quite capable and smart do it anyways because they "settle" for what they can get...and refuse to wait for quality)....Perhaps because I cannot legally be married I have the opportunity to sit back and watch these things going on i can truely sit back and be critical, bitter if you will, of the actions of people who jump into it and just feel divorce is okay because nothing is permanent...yea I have a problem with it. I know MANY a divorcee...but cmon....DISCLAIMER: I dont hate ANYONE just because they got a divorce....many of my best friends are....but people jump into it so quickly now-adays that it almost seems that divorce is SOO easy an option, much like a target gift return, that it makes me wonder why the gay marriage thing was such a big issue.....(granted i have my theories)...but why make such a big deal out of it when the people who practice it just treat it like a "sweater return"....

 

at least drop the "family values" crap that is spewed from every politicians mouth like no one knows of the divorce rate..or at least the "one parent punishing the other" syndrome because they dont like eachother...only the kid really gets hurt ..

 

unless its a real life mental/physical dangerous situation...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

aint it funny that i dont even like kids around me i feel this way ...

 

Salute!

[Phantom]

Four months later I came home from work to an empty house. My family gone. My dog gone.

 

J5, I am so sorry to hear that. That is a HEARTLESS thing to do to someone. I couldn't imagine.

 

Alas, she has proven herself right in the years since. Life has been unusually cruel to her by way of her bad choices.

 

K A R M A

 

As long as I live I will NEVER forget the way my 2 year old daughter acted the first time she came to my home after her mom took her. She went straight back to the doorway of her bedroom and stopped, stood there for about five seconds and asked "Wheres my stuff" in the best way a 2 year old could manage.

 

[RegisteredAndEducated]

My daughter is 7 now and I'm understanding they never "Get used to it".

 

yeah... I'm 22... My parents were divorced when I was 2 or 3... and I've never "Gotten Used to it."

 

It just plain sucked. I had a rougher childhood, I think, than I would have otherwise. I know that it could have been worse, but I know that it could have been better. Hell, our character is shaped by our life experiences and our choices, right? I like to think I have a better character for it.

[Feckless Wench]

I am on my second marriage. Both kids are from my first marriage. When we split we had reached the point where we simply had nothing in common.

 

We decided that it would be best all round if we parted. Would it have been better to stay together for the kids....no, I don't believe it would. We parted amicably and have never really argued about anything to do with the split.

 

Children learn behaviours from their parents, I don't believe it would have been fair on them to be forced to live with two people who were not modelling a 'marriage' and were not happy together.

 

When we parted we allowed the kids to choose who to live with. We agreed that whoever they chose, we would respect their wishes. Both kids chose to stay with me (which given our work situations was the better choice anyway).

 

The kids have always been allowed to visit their father whenever they wish (it only takes a phonecall of 'Hi Dad, can I stop by tonight'), they are also allowed to change their minds at any point and go and live with their father (although they have to give 1 month's notice....to stop any teenage 'IT'S SO UNFAIR, YOU HATE ME AND I'M LEAVING' scenarios).

 

I don't feel that my ex and I made a bad decision when we married, we were married for 15 years before we parted. Life just has a habit of changing as we age, sadly we aged in different directions and ended up wanting different things from life.

 

The kids are happy and despite the fact that my youngest was only 2 when we split he has never been in ANY doubt as to who his Dad is. Ad has been the man in the house since shortly after we split (no, that wasn't WHY we split) but has never allowed the kids to call him Dad. As Ad says, he is not their father and never will be and although he does all the 'Dad' stuff for/with them, they only have one real Dad.

[tiredofwhiners]

Divorce was created because life is too short to be unhappy. My first married to young, divorced by 23, no kids. Now 2 kids don't think I'll ever get divorced, but if i do it will be my fault. Shes a good lady and a great mom, i would be the piece of shit in the group.

 

I come from a divorced family and it was no big deal, i would even say it was better. My parents were divorced when i was 5, mainly because my dad traveled and was gone a lot, and my mom did'nt like that. I got good grades and got along with most, did'nt do drugs, smoke or hate life because i only had one parent at home.

[ToriAllen]

I'm on my second marriage and ready to strangle him half of the time. I think the problem is that a lot of the time you just don't really know who a person is until you get married. They act romantic and ambitious, and pretend to be everything you want...Then you marry them and they let that other side of them selves come to the surface. After that you realize you are married to a completely different man than you fell in love with.

My parents divorced when I was five and got back together a year later. They got back together 'for the kids', and trust me it isn't a good enough excuse. If two people don't get along but stay together for the kids, how will the children learn what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like? I'm beginning to think that my relationship problems may stem from them. My father was a great man, but he was irresponsible and selfish when it came to money. My mother spent most of my childhood hanging on the edge of a nervous breakdown because of his antics. She is now married to a very responsible man, and she acts like a completely different person. I wish they would have just stayed apart.

If it is over, then it is over, regardless of the 'Marital Sins'. I know most people think that it is easier to walk away than to make it work, but that isn’t always true. Once you have invested your time, your life, into a relationship, and you are faced with the uncertainty of what would happen if you throw that away, then admitting that it is over can be the hardest thing you ever do.

[Phantom]

I am on my second marriage. Both kids are from my first marriage. When we split we had reached the point where we simply had nothing in common.

 

We decided that it would be best all round if we parted. Would it have been better to stay together for the kids....no, I don't believe it would. We parted amicably and have never really argued about anything to do with the split.

 

I have a hard time hearing about marriages that ended for reasons such as "we drifted apart" or "we no longer had anything in common." When children are involved, it is the parent's responsibility to make every effort to reconnect. You seem to have a strong respect for your ex and because you split amicably, it makes me wonder if it could have worked. Getting of soap box now

 

The kids have always been allowed to visit their father whenever they wish (it only takes a phonecall of 'Hi Dad, can I stop by tonight'), they are also allowed to change their minds at any point and go and live with their father (although they have to give 1 month's notice....to stop any teenage 'IT'S SO UNFAIR, YOU HATE ME AND I'M LEAVING' scenarios).

 

This is my stepson's favorite!

 

The kids are happy and despite the fact that my youngest was only 2 when we split

 

My father left my mother on their 25 wedding anniversary in 2001. I have never gotten over it.

 

Ad has been the man in the house since shortly after we split (no, that wasn't WHY we split) but has never allowed the kids to call him Dad. As Ad says, he is not their father and never will be and although he does all the 'Dad' stuff for/with them, they only have one real Dad.

 

Have they ever wanted to? My mother and step father asked me to call him "Dad" but at the age of 22, I just couldn't do it.

[ToriAllen]

I have a hard time hearing about marriages that ended for reasons such as "we drifted apart" or "we no longer had anything in common." When children are involved, it is the parent's responsibility to make every effort to reconnect.

There is a point in some marriages when something dies. Love, respect, trust, or a hybrid of the three...I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but once it is gone, you just can't get it back. Most of the women who have experienced this, know the exact moment it happens. Most felt when it died.

[Feckless Wench]

I have a hard time hearing about marriages that ended for reasons such as "we drifted apart" or "we no longer had anything in common." When children are involved, it is the parent's responsibility to make every effort to reconnect. You seem to have a strong respect for your ex and because you split amicably, it makes me wonder if it could have worked. Getting of soap box now

 

I married him as a young soldier. As he progressed through the ranks he had his head further and further up his own ass until he couldn't see daylight. Nothing was good enough for him anymore. I did change myself, to be what he said he wanted, but it just wasn't GOOD enough for him.

 

My father left my mother on their 25 wedding anniversary in 2001. I have never gotten over it.

 

There was never really anything to get over. They see their father regularly (weekly at the very least) and speak to him whenever they want to. They actually seem to like the arrangement, he was incredibly and unecessarily strict with them when he lived here...now he is reasonable.

 

Have they ever wanted to? My mother and step father asked me to call him "Dad" but at the age of 22, I just couldn't do it.

 

Both of them have called him 'Dad' on occasion, but I guess it is easy to say the wrong name. The kids treat both Ad and their real Dad as 'Dad', it's only the name that is different.

[Feckless Wench]

There is a point in some marriages when something dies. Love, respect, trust, or a hybrid of the three...I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but once it is gone, you just can't get it back. Most of the women who have experienced this, know the exact moment it happens. Most felt when it died.

 

How VERY true! Parting with my ex was like watching a friend die and not being able to do a damn thing about it!

[Phantom]

There is a point in some marriages when something dies. Love, respect, trust, or a hybrid of the three...I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but once it is gone, you just can't get it back. Most of the women who have experienced this, know the exact moment it happens. Most felt when it died.

 

Oh, I know exactly what you mean. You start telling him to get his fat ass off the couch and help with the kids, he replies by calling you a cunt. Once the respect and admiration is gone, it's pretty much over. No argument there. I was thinking more along the lines of couples who admit they are the best of friends but claim the "spark is gone." To me, marriage IS a friendship. Every couple eventually settles into the comfort zone- married or not. It's the loss of respect and common courtesy that kills it.

[Feckless Wench]

To me, marriage IS a friendship. Every couple eventually settles into the comfort zone- married or not. It's the loss of respect and common courtesy that kills it.

 

My ex and I are still friends and are always courteous to each other, we've known each other for 27 years after all....we just cannot live together! LOL!

[ToriAllen]

I was thinking more along the lines of couples who admit they are the best of friends but claim the "spark is gone." To me, marriage IS a friendship. Every couple eventually settles into the comfort zone- married or not. It's the loss of respect and common courtesy that kills it.

It is possible to be friends with someone and still not be able to stay married. There are a lot of things that can kill it and lack of trust or lack of respect are two of the worst. I think it is better for the children involved if the parents do remain friends after a divorce. I imagine nasty divorces are much harder on any children involved.

[Jhony5]

Posted by Tori:

It is possible to be friends with someone and still not be able to stay married.

I tried that friends shit before. Didn't work out in my case. I think it would be easier to be friends if there wasn't so many issues in my Ex's life. When it effects my daughter I have to say something to her, and she gets terribly defensive about any criticism I have. Shes been with the same boyfriend on and off for about 5 years, about 5 months after she left her marriage. Hes been to prison twice and county jail for 2-6 month sentences 2 times. All for assault and battery. Ya know, beating up teenagers in gas station parking lots. He even assaulted his anger management councilor if that gives ya an indication of his character.

 

Its hard to not offer my opinion when I'm forced to hear them screaming at each other while I'm on the phone with my daughter. I've had to call the police on two occasions just from that circumstance alone. Of course in my ex-wifes mind, I was just doing that to be spiteful. So...no I couldn't be friends with her and have long since abandoned even trying. My words to her these days are strictly limited to "What time do I pick her up" and "What time do I drop her off". She often wants to mingle in my business, but I'll have none of that.

 

It is impossible for a married couple to stay together if only one of them really wants it. Which was the case in my divorce. At some point my wife decided not to stay. Her friends told her how easy it is on a single mother with all the free GOV programs. Free rent and utilities, food stamps, and more. So she formed a plan, called and set herself up on the 'gimme free livin' waiting list. In retrospect I can see exactly when she had her apartment granted to her. That was when everything I did was a reason to call me names. Forgot to bring milk home, "you fucking asshole". I overcooked the sauce when I made my chicken fettuccine for her parents, "He just doesn't even try anymore" she explained to her parents right in front of me. About 3 weeks later they all (her entire family) came over while I was working and took everything but my couch and the appliances.

 

On a related topic. I found out about a year ago that her and her alcoholic boyfriend hawked the $1300 wedding ring I bought for her, for $200 to pay rent. They were subsequently evicted 2 months later when they missed rent again. Its funny to me now, not sad anymore, to think of the time all those years ago when my wife was sitting on the side of the bed tilting her hand back and forth with the light from the lamp twinkling of the diamonds. She had this big 'ol smile on her face as was so happy and proud of it. Just to think, if somehow I woulda known that just a few years later it would be nothing but a piece of junk to get hawked at the pawn shop for a few dollars. Funny how things change.

[ToriAllen]

I tried that friends shit before. Didn't work out in my case. I think it would be easier to be friends if there wasn't so many issues in my Ex's life. When it effects my daughter I have to say something to her, and she gets terribly defensive about any criticism I have. Shes been with the same boyfriend on and off for about 5 years, about 5 months after she left her marriage. Hes been to prison twice and county jail for 2-6 month sentences 2 times. All for assault and battery. Ya know, beating up teenagers in gas station parking lots. He even assaulted his anger management councilor if that gives ya an indication of his character.

I think friendship is best when children are involved, but it isn

[Phantom]

It is impossible for a married couple to stay together if only one of them really wants it.

 

I disagree. Thought it often happens, it shouldn't. When someone makes a vow to someone, it should not be declared null and void unless both partners agree to split. I couldn't imagine leaving my husband and having him sleep alone in our cold bed or wandering around our home looking at the chair where I would sit in his lap while watching TV or the fireplace we would sit in front of and cuddle on cold nights. Just thinking about him fending for himself and being lonely breaks my heart. Even on the days where I am sick to death of him, I just couldn't do it.

 

When we married four years ago, Ctrl was still an idiot but my husband was physically fit and in good health. A year later he lost his company, gained over 100 lbs, and now has several health issues. Regardless, I made a promise for better or for worse. I even had my grandfather (the pastor who married us) take out "until death do us part" in our marital vows because I wanted him to know I was going to love him forever.

 

That was when everything I did was a reason to call me names. Forgot to bring milk home, "you fucking asshole". I overcooked the sauce when I made my chicken fettuccine for her parents, "He just doesn't even try anymore" she explained to her parents right in front of me. About 3 weeks later they all (her entire family) came over while I was working and took everything but my couch and the appliances.

 

Again, absolutely HEARTLESS- especially when you did everything in your power to make things work. At the age of 20 when I left an abusive relationship, I still let him know in advance I was done and moving out.

 

On a related topic. I found out about a year ago that her and her alcoholic boyfriend hawked the $1300 wedding ring I bought for her, for $200 to pay rent. They were subsequently evicted 2 months later when they missed rent again.

 

Very, very frustrating. It's heartbreaking to see a symbol of love and eternity being hocked for something so menial.

[ToriAllen]

I disagree. Thought it often happens, it shouldn't. When someone makes a vow to someone, it should not be declared null and void unless both partners agree to split.

I don't agree with that. There are too many people who are spiteful enough to contest the divorce just to keep their partner from being able to move on even when they know the marriage is over. My first husband didn't want to end the marriage, but he wasn't the one having to put up with his crap. I would work all night and he would sit at home on his ass refusing to do anything but play games on the playstation. He wanted a mommy rather than a wife, so of course he didn't want to give that up. I