Justifiable Divorce.

[Phantom]

I don't agree with that.

 

Let me clarify:

 

Scenario 1: The husband adores his wife, does everything to please her, and children are involved. The wife decides she isn't happy and wants to break up the marriage so she can go and sow her wild oats. I feel she needs to suck it up, grow up, and stop being selfish.

 

Scenario 2: The husband ignores his wife, verbally mistreats her, takes her for granted, ignores his children, etc. The wife is fully within her rights to leave such a man in order to seek out someone that will make her happy- regardless of what her asshole husband wants. Obviously he will still want his doormat but that's too bad. He should have stepped up when he had the chance.

 

There are too many people who are spiteful enough to contest the divorce just to keep their partner from being able to move on even when they know the marriage is over.

 

This happens every day and I do NOT understand such people. Regardless of the cause, no one with an ounce of self respect should want a person who doesn't want them.

 

My first husband didn't want to end the marriage, but he wasn't the one having to put up with his crap. I would work all night and he would sit at home on his ass refusing to do anything but play games on the playstation. He wanted a mommy rather than a wife, so of course he didn't want to give that up.

 

I feel you were completely within your rights to show him the door. Marriage and family is a two way street. No one should be held solely responsible for being the parent in a relationship while the other one acts like a perpetual child.

 

I

[Jhony5]

Posted by Tori:

I could see where you would be upset, and it makes me wonder how the hell she got custody of the child.

I tried to make a decision that was best for my baby. I was very involved in my daughters life from day one and I had no intention of changing that. So I agreed to let her have full custody to avoid the fight. She needed full custody in order to get the government benefits she needed. So in the custody agreement I was granted 3 days a week 'visitation' (such a cold term). I wanted to do joint custody at first but when I tried discussing it with her she turned all devil on me.

 

Like I said, once it is gone, that’s it. I can’t imagine someone actually formulating a plan to be dependent on the government, and being content with that lifestyle.

LOL, I know it sounds horribly inept to contrive such a plan as a means of moving on after divorce, but this was the case. Full discloser of her awful plot was given to me years later when we had one of our few calm adult-like conversations about the whole debacle. She had told me that she first started planning to leave a few months before I bought our new home. Shitty thing about that is, I let her have the final decision on what house we bought and where the house was located. So to think back about all the time we spent looking for a house, the endless litany of shit that comes with looking for a new home, she was on a waiting list for a free apartment at the time. Knowing I'm about to sign my ass on a $95,000 30 year mortgage.

 

She had a good friend that was a single mother on all kinds of assistance, and her friend had sold her on how easy it was. Only there was one catch. Her friend was a hard worker. My EX absolutely did not want to work, ever. I told her the first two years of my daughters life that she should stay home like she always wanted, so thats how it was. I worked overnights and overtime, and she stayed home with the little one, like a good family ought to. But she grew complacent in those first struggling years that many families go though. After acquiring a mortgage there wasn't enough money to go shopping and eating out several times a week. The two of them would often sleep until 11am-noon. Being that I worked at night, she would actually get angry with me for trying to get into bed with them when I got home. She would get angry if I awoke our daughter, who shoulda been in her own bed but my wife would have none of that. I wore a pretty impressive groove into the sofa, as the couch had become my bed.

 

So you see how she wasn't having fun. I had settled into a routine, and she was having no part of it. All this work and responsibility was a drag. Whats more is she couldn't cook. I mean at all. Terrible about that shit. Was I a dick about it? NOPE. Did I bitch about my "Wheres my dinner"? NOPE. I did all the cooking. I love to cook, always have. Mama raised me that way.

 

At the age of 20 when I left an abusive relationship, I still let him know in advance I was done and moving out.

 

Ya know, thats one thing that will always disturb me about my divorce. Why the sneaking out? The deceit. The whispers and secret phone calls behind my back to set me up. The night she left (November 11, 2001) Her sisters husband ( my brother-in-law) was at my work (Kroger's grocery store) supposedly shopping, even though I had never seen him there before. He was actually there to make sure I was where I was supposed to be so that I didn't come home and surprise them. I was and still am a very calm person, that had never once laid a hand on my wife. Why did she do it this way? Was she afraid of me? Did she think I'd hurt someone in a freak out? Nope. She wanted to be the one to decide how it went down. Shes selfish and by leaving in this manner she got to choose what was hers and what was mine. Everything of my daughters was hers. The photo albums, hers. The chihuahua, hers. The toilet seat and shower curtain, all hers. 80% of the dish wear, hers. the glade plug-ins, ya know the $1 dollar scented plug-in things, all hers. I never asked for any of it back, I didn't give a fuck. I wanted my babies back home, and thats all.

 

My faults? I spent to much time at work, for one thing. At the time I was an hourly stock manager and the overtime was where I cashed in. I spent time with my friends a few days a week. She had no interest in hunting, fishing, 4-wheeling, the general "guy things". So I went on and did them without her. Which she claims to this day to be the reason I lost my family. Because I was selfish and didn't spend anytime with her. Maybe shes right, I dunno.

[ToriAllen]

Let me clarify:

 

Scenario 1: The husband adores his wife, does everything to please her, and children are involved. The wife decides she isn't happy and wants to break up the marriage so she can go and sow her wild oats. I feel she needs to suck it up, grow up, and stop being selfish.

 

Scenario 2: The husband ignores his wife, verbally mistreats her, takes her for granted, ignores his children, etc. The wife is fully within her rights to leave such a man in order to seek out someone that will make her happy- regardless of what her asshole husband wants. Obviously he will still want his doormat but that's too bad. He should have stepped up when he had the chance.

Scenario 3: The husband adores his wife, does everything to please her, and children are involved. However, he is irresponsible with money and immature in many ways. The wife is on the verge of a nervous breakdown because of him and the children began to suffer because of it.

Not everything is as black and white as good guy/bad guy.

I completely agree with you. I was simply explaining some trivial things such as money, physical appearance, and physical impairment that cause so many to throw in the towel so they can keep their options open for something bigger and better. I have separated from my husband on several occasions for things he has done which I feel were unacceptable (controlling, yelling, taking me for granted, etc.). However, I would never leave him because he gained weight, lost his job, became paralyzed, etc.

My husband was disabled when I met him and it is only going to get worse. That should never be a reason for abandoning someone.

[Phantom]

I spent to much time at work... the overtime was where I cashed in. I spent time with my friends a few days a week. She had no interest in hunting, fishing, 4-wheeling... So I went on and did them without her. Which she claims to this day to be the reason I lost my family. Because I was selfish and didn't spend anytime with her. Maybe shes right, I dunno.

 

Well, men do have to work. Most men closely relate their self worth with their careers and income. There is also nothing wrong with having an outlet or spending personal time with friends. BUT... Do you feel she might have had a genuine gripe? Although my husband is retired, I hardly EVER see him. He is home about 1-2 hours a day. He has a special knack for finding every reason under the sun to be anywhere but home. I will admit this is very hard on me... especially when we have little ones. I take care of his children (he had two before me) more than he does lol.

 

Scenario 3: The husband...is irresponsible with money and immature in many ways. The wife is on the verge of a nervous breakdown because of him and the children began to suffer because of it.

Not everything is as black and white as good guy/bad guy.

 

Another good point. I take it this is why your first marriage didn't work out? I completely forgot about the money issue even though this is a primary reason a lot of marriages do not work.

 

Edit: Ctrl is an idiot.

 

Any advice since you seem to have gone through this, too?

 

My husband was disabled when I met him and it is only going to get worse. That should never be a reason for abandoning someone.

 

Agreed. The commitment was made in sickness and in health.

[ToriAllen]

Another good point. I take it this is why your first marriage didn't work out? I completely forgot about the money issue even though this is a primary reason a lot of marriages do not work.

 

I'm in the process of selling one of my companies and Hubby is already talking about what he wants to buy. He wants a new ranch (he already owns two) and to invest a couple million in the stock market (a resounding HELL NO from me). He has blown two inheritances, both of our 401 K's, and the money from the sale of his company. Though I would never make him feel that he was not entitled to what is mine, this is a huge sore spot with me and could prove to be our undoing.

 

Any advice since you seem to have gone through this, too?

No, my first husband wasn't really bad with money, he was just a lazy SOB. That was actually a reference to my parents. My mom went through hell with my dad. He was the more caring individual you could ever meet, but where money was concerned...It was like two different people. They split the bills between them. Mom had utilities, her credit cards, and her car. Dad had the house, his credit cards, and his car. He got six months behind on the house payment without telling my mother. She found out when the house went into foreclosure. That was when she divorced him the second time. He refused to allow her control of all of the money and bills, and it destroyed their marriage.

My current husband reminds me of my dad in many ways. He is a great guy, but some times, where money is concerned...He has no idea what he wants to be when he 'grows up'. He changed his major in college twice. He says he wants his own business, but jumps from one interest to the next, one idea to the next, and it is everything I can do to keep my composure and listen to him million and one ideas. He can't wait until I get through school, and has a lot of plans with the money I will earn. I'm really trying hard not to get upset with him, but he doesn't make it easy.

[clarity]

i think divorce is circumstancial. i think that there is no point marrying someone knowing it will not last or that you do not truly love them, and for that reason i am against divorce. however, staying together for the kids ... doesnt work. and of course in cases like: THE DEADLY SINS OF MARITAL BLISS. divorce is the best thing.

 

however, i dont think you can really form a true opinion until your married.

[ToriAllen]

i think divorce is circumstancial. i think that there is no point marrying someone knowing it will not last or that you do not truly love them, and for that reason i am against divorce. however, staying together for the kids ... doesnt work. and of course in cases like: THE DEADLY SINS OF MARITAL BLISS. divorce is the best thing.

 

however, i dont think you can really form a true opinion until your married.

Well, you are just a walking contradiction, aren't you?

[Phantom]

My mom went through hell with my dad....where money was concerned...It was like two different people. They split the bills between them. Mom had utilities, her credit cards, and her car. Dad had the house, his credit cards, and his car. He got six months behind on the house payment without telling my mother. She found out when the house went into foreclosure. That was when she divorced him the second time. He refused to allow her control of all of the money and bills, and it destroyed their marriage.

 

My current husband reminds me of my dad in many ways. He is a great guy, but some times, where money is concerned...He has no idea what he wants to be when he 'grows up'... He can't wait until I get through school, and has a lot of plans with the money I will earn. I'm really trying hard not to get upset with him, but he doesn't make it easy.

 

There is always the stereotypical joke about women spending more than their husbands can make while the husbands are the penny pinching savers. However, I have never seen a real life example of this. It seems men are almost always the bad ones when it comes to handling finances. Maybe it is due to the shift in society where most women now work outside the home. Fifty years ago men had the mentality that what they made was their money. Now that things are more equal, men see their wife's income as community property. lol

[Jhony5]

Posted by Phantom:

Do you feel she might have had a genuine gripe?

I certainly do. You see, shes one of these women that is constantly around or in contact with her family. She was always on the phone with her mother or sister. She would have rathered to hang out at her moms or sisters house then her own house with her husband. I tried to be as nice as I could about it but I didn't want to hang out with her god dam family all the time. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, there were many times when we were having sex and the phone would ring. Instead of letting it ring she'd answer it. It would be her mother or her sister and she would just sit their and gab. As I said I worked nights at the time and many many many times when I got up for work at about 5-6pm, she would be no where around. After a series of phone calls I would eventually track her down.

 

Point being married people are gonna have problems like this. There is no 'perfect couple'. No two people, especially a man and a woman, are gonna have 100% in common. I think theres a poisoning of the mind out there when little girls grow up. They learn this fairy tale Barbie bullshit about finding their prince who sweeps her away and spends all his time pleasing her every need.

 

The reason for my divorce is much the same as many others. Two people learning that they do not have everything in common, and one of them being offended by it. If you rely on your spouse to entertain you all the time. If you rely on your spouse to make you happy 100% of the time, then you are likely to be disappointed. I didn't expect anything from my wife but to stand by my decisions and be honest with me. She could do neither. In over five years together, I never once heard her say "I'm sorry". Thats a very telling thing.

 

 

Again I say, selfishness is the #1 reason for divorce.

[KathyA]

Jesus H. Fucking Christ Phantom !!!

 

The divorce answer is this; Who ever files for the divorce gets nothing..NOTHING PERIOD.. No kids, no house, no money nothing.

 

And Phantom have you ever met a man that want a piece of shit??

Shit with money

Shit in Bed

Just plain old shit all around huh??

 

.

.

.

 

 

Not true. When I filed for mine, I got everything and then some.

The houses, his camper, more than half (almost 3/4's) of what we had in our joint account. Plus he had to pay my main mortgage, and child support each and every month. Things I never even asked for, the judge assigned them to me, through a worksheet we had to provide listing all our assets. I had to stop the judge and let him know that he had owned a few things before we were married.. And that I didn't want those items. My husband is a man with ALOT of toys. I could have taken almost all of them. If I really wanted to be a greedy bitch. But I didn't, I just wanted out. I didn't feel the need to inflict aggravation on an already volatile situation.

 

I had more assets then he did in the end. Even though we are remarried now, I still left everything in my name, purposely.

[builder]

So you took a vow; Till death do us part.

 

Well there is no "us" anymore, so that component is dead and buried.

 

Move on. Life is for living.

 

If you ain't supporting eachother's goals, get the fuck outta there.

[Jhony5]

Marriage is a contract that both partners enter into. If you have children the benefits of nullifying this contract go almost exclusively to the woman. If I had chosen to challenge my wife on custody issues, I would have ended up paying for her to live in the house I bought for our family along with a myriad of other 'fuck me' options she could choose from.

 

It stinks.

 

Posted by NN2:

Jesus H. Fucking Christ Phantom !!!

 

The divorce answer is this; Who ever files for the divorce gets nothing..NOTHING PERIOD.. No kids, no house, no money nothing.

If I comprehended this correctly, you are suggesting that the person who files, must walk away empty handed. Correct? Well I'd be the first person you might think would support this due to my own experience. However there are too many people that would be stuck in a really fucked disposition if this were the case. Women/men being subject to physical and/or mental abuse. Philandering spouses. Should it be that someone should have to choose to either stay in this shitty marriage or walk away with nothing? Hell no. That sucks.

When you enter a marriage you take that risk. If your wrong then you must deal with the ill consequences of your poor choice, as did I.

 

If a couple would have to live together for 3 years before they could marry, I bet my check that marriages would reduce nationwide by 50% or more. Me and my ex-wife were together for about a year and a half before we married. Seems like a long enough time to learn the mannerisms of your mate, but that is not the case.

[Phantom]

The divorce answer is this; Who ever files for the divorce gets nothing..NOTHING PERIOD.. No kids, no house, no money nothing.

 

That's terrible logic, Nazz. This type of divorce would be unfair for the partner initiating it due to the following examples: Adultery, child abuse, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc.

 

And Phantom have you ever met a man that want a piece of shit??

 

Kathy tells me you're pretty hot. Can I have you?

 

Shit with money

 

Yes, my husband is bad with money. We all have our faults. Statistically, the husband is the bigger spender and worse at handling money than the wife.

 

Shit in Bed

 

My husband is great in bed. Never said he wasn't. The comment I left on J5's post was targeted towards men who take a woman's virginity. Being my husband's third wife, let's hope he would know what he is doing by now.

[clarity]

;

Well, you are just a walking contradiction, aren't you?

 

no, its called sitting on the fence

[Ctrl]

So you took a vow; Till death do us part.

 

Well there is no "us" anymore, so that component is dead and buried.

 

Move on. Life is for living.

 

If you ain't supporting eachother's goals, get the fuck outta there.

 

 

Moral relativism. You are pretending that your vow no longer holds weight because what you idealize as "us" has died a figurative death and it is horse shit. If you are going to sacrifice your integrity by not holding to your word, have the intellectual honesty to admit it. I hate intellectual cowards. Why stop there... why not say the vow was to God, and there is no God, so there is no vow. Why not say there was a contract, and when the other person stopped loving you they broke that contract leaving your word unlbemished in a dissolved contract...

 

The thing is, you can come up with a thousand ways to puncture and drain your word of validity, but at the end of the day, you salvage no honor. You are just a weakling, as well as a liar.

 

 

For the record. I was a liar too.

[snafu]

Justifiable divorce? Hmm

[ClassyMissFancy]

what do you think constitutes as a justifiable divorce?

 

 

Two adults no longer want to be married = justifiable divorce. The courts should stay the hell out of the whole thing. it's not the government's business.

 

If people spent as much time and money on premarital counseling as they do on the wedding... we wouldn't have so many divorces.

 

If the government backed off of marriage all together and left it souly in the hands of the churches... so that couples had to go before the same family, friends, and clergy who attended the wedding, explain the marital problems, and ask for permission to divorce... there wouldn't be so many divorces OR weddings.

 

No offense but whenever someone tells me their divorce was due to "drifting apart," I just cringe. If a married couple is "drifting apart" then perhaps they could put more of an effort into reconnecting with their spouse. ESPECIALLY when kids are involved. Just my two cents.

 

What it comes down to though.. is it is no one elses business. If two people do not want to be married.. they shouldnt have to turn in to abusive whores in order to end the relationship.

 

They shouldn't be required to part as bitter enemies in order to walk away.

[phreakwars]

You all sound like a fucking support group of worthless cheaters and assholes.

 

Now it should be someone else's decision for a divorce ??

 

Say's fucking who ??

 

That is the most fucking retarded thing you have said yet.

.

.

[ToriAllen]

Not true. When I filed for mine, I got everything and then some.

The houses, his camper, more than half (almost 3/4's) of what we had in our joint account. Plus he had to pay my main mortgage, and child support each and every month. Things I never even asked for, the judge assigned them to me, through a worksheet we had to provide listing all our assets. I had to stop the judge and let him know that he had owned a few things before we were married.. And that I didn't want those items. My husband is a man with ALOT of toys. I could have taken almost all of them. If I really wanted to be a greedy bitch. But I didn't, I just wanted out. I didn't feel the need to inflict aggravation on an already volatile situation.

 

I had more assets then he did in the end. Even though we are remarried now, I still left everything in my name, purposely.

My stepfather's ex-wife had a long time affair that one of his kids knew about. She moved the other guy into the house the minute he moved out. She got more than half of everything as well. She got the house, some other property they had. He had to pay the mortgage for her and her boyfriend and the kid that kept their affair quiet. He had to split the accounts with her, including what was left in the savings accout after their kid was through school. The list went on and on. His lawyer must have been horrible, but then again, he is a really easy going guy. He might have just said 'hell with it'. It still seems really wrong.

[KathyA]

My stepfather's ex-wife had a long time affair that one of his kids knew about. She moved the other guy into the house the minute he moved out. She got more than half of everything as well. She got the house, some other property they had. He had to pay the mortgage for her and her boyfriend and the kid that kept their affair quiet. He had to split the accounts with her, including what was left in the savings accout after their kid was through school. The list went on and on. His lawyer must have been horrible, but then again, he is a really easy going guy. He might have just said 'hell with it'. It still seems really wrong.

 

 

It is really wrong, and quite unfair at times. We went through a mediator at first, and had divided everything pretty equally. But when we brought that worksheet to court, it was a whole different ball game. We spent hours and hours on that one sheet of paper. And the judge just completely dismissed it.

 

There were extenuating circumstances in our divorce. Although it had nothing to do with affairs or anything. The judge wanted to prove a point to him. And he did.

[ToriAllen]

It is really wrong, and quite unfair at times. We went through a mediator at first, and had divided everything pretty equally. But when we brought that worksheet to court, it was a whole different ball game. We spent hours and hours on that one sheet of paper. And the judge just completely dismissed it.

 

There were extenuating circumstances in our divorce. Although it had nothing to do with affairs or anything. The judge wanted to prove a point to him. And he did.

Yeah. I guess he would have to be pretty dense not to get that point, huh?

[skategreen]

There is a point in some marriages when something dies. ... Most of the women who have experienced this, know the exact moment it happens. Most felt when it died.

....

 

Yep.

[Ahhlee]

My ex got into drugs, secreted money out of our accounts, stopped paying bills, disappeared for days on end and got another woman pregnant.

 

I think I was certainly justified in divorcing his ass.

[ImWithStupid]

As a current devorcee, I only have one thing to say about the institution of marriage...

 

http://www.roadkilltshirts.com/images/products/MISERY.jpg

[tellitlikeitis]

There is a point in some marriages when something dies. Love, respect, trust, or a hybrid of the three...I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but once it is gone, you just can't get it back. Most of the women who have experienced this, know the exact moment it happens. Most felt when it died.

 

 

I couldn't agree more.